US-852 hardy Citrandarin
Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
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poncirusguy6b452xx
6 years agoRelated Discussions
Best Hardy Substitute for Lemon Juice: Thomasville vs Ichang
Comments (19)Thank you all so much for the input, appreciate it. I think I am more interested in knowing the specifics of the fruit traits. I want to use as a lemon/lime/Seville sour orange substitute for the juice for salad dressings, drinks, seafood seasoning. I can definitely wrap it up in burlap and such even xmas lights for the first couple seasons or bring it indoors like the rest of my citrus the first couple winters. Eventually though I want to plant it in warm microclimate spot I have for it in zone7a. I assume all these have fragrant blossoms typical of citrus which is also a requirement? I did get to speak with Mckenzie farms forgot to ask if these all have fragrant blossoms or if any stand out for blossom fragrance. I think Ichang may have the largest and most fragrant blossoms. But the others should have fragrant blossoms too? So basically the most important thing to me to is: juice quantity, juice quality (no offtastes/bitterness/astringency or extremely little), and blossom fragrance. Here are my notes based on sleuthing: Yuzu- Only real problem is here is juice content is so small- sounds like a teaspoon per fruit due to both small fruit (think 4,5 cm diameter tangerines as standard size) and also very thick peel, lots of seed, and occasionally dry. I am confident the QUALITY of the sour juice is good--as it is a classic culinary juice. Aromatic, zesty juice. The rind is awesome on these, but I have no interest in rind. It sounds like per fruit it's almost a 1:6 ratio Yuzu juice to lime. Do I really want to be juicing 6 fruit every time I can just a lime or one of the below 2? Maybe if the juice is that awesome--which it could be. Shangjuan/Ichang lemon- Large fruit with 1/2 cup sour juice! Very seedy, thick peel, but still gives 1/2 cup sour juice which is a lot. The quality is suspect--some say it can used as lemon, some say it is way too sour and caustic like straight up vinegar with no citrusy flavor/zest/aroma. So maybe juice quantity over quality on this one. Also I think I read it doesn't keep well? Thomasville Citrangequat- seems like the best option and a compromise. A 4cm x6cm fruit rough standard size (close to size as Yuzu, but oblong shape) but is juicy, not insanely thick skin, not insanely seedy. Not sure how much juice it offers per fruit--but is described as juicy and I'm sure it is more juice at least than the Yuzu. The quality sounds good too and may be like the Seville sour orange with some orangey flavor in the sour juice. My main concern with this one is if it's only juicy when RIPE--to my knowledge citrus gets juicier as it gets ripe. Most people suggest using underripe Thomasville as lemon substitute--are these relativey DRY sour wedges though? The descriptions of juicy are surely describing the truly ripe fruit which I will not count on getting in zone 7a nor do I desire. I want something that is juicy when it is sour (like a lemon/lime/Seville sour orange), not dry when it is sour because the sourness is due to underripeness (like an underripe standard sweet orange--those are a bit dry.). So overall, I think thomasville wins for me, but a taste test would help since I'm nitpicking on the quality traits--I may try to taste test some in November. Also thomasville sounds like it's a half notch hardier than Ichang. If anyone else has anymore info or thoughts that would be great. Remaining questions- Blossom fragrances? How much juice can you get from a sour underripe thomasville?...See More'Hardy' citrandarin cuttings are growing well
Comments (5)Patty, I hope to get some fruit. We'll see. I've actually never tasted the fruit when it wasn't either frozen or unripe, so I can't say. Supposedly it's one of the more 'edible' of the Poncirus hybrids -- but that's not saying much! (I think citrangequat might be best I've tasted so far) The hot air from the AC unit blows up, now out, so it's no problem. And yes, it's pretty humid here. We've had a very mild summer....See MoreCold hardy citrus
Comments (30)It will be very difficult, and likely impractical, to grow any intergeneric hybrids in zone 6. US852 and TaiTri might be the only ones that would have any chance of making it, and even then I'd strongly recommend planting in a protected spot, somewhere that won't get too much wind, and putting a pile of mulch and a cover on it over the winter. Probably close to the wall of a house would be good, surrounded by other nearby bushy plants. Bear in mind these two are not exactly "delicious" tasting. TaiTri is not very much better in taste than poncirus, while US852 has a bit of off taste and is nowhere near as good fruit quality as the crappiest mandarin you might ever find in a supermarket. Though I did see a video where one very adventurous enthusiast claimed he was able to "enjoy" eating them. (full of seeds of course)...See MoreWhat's the most cold hardy Mandarin cultivar known?
Comments (19)List of most cold hardy mandarins: US 852 (Changsha x trifoliate) very well hardy down to zone 7, maybe even 6b Citrandarin - Satsuma x trifoliate 0-5 degrees (Fahrenheit) Changsha mandarin 10-11 degrees Arctic Frost (Changsha x Satsuma) 10.5-11.5 degrees "Ten Degree Tangerine" (Clementine x Yuzu) 11.5 degrees (some claim has slightly kerosene-like off flavor) Keraji mandarin 12-14 degrees Nippon mandarinquat (also called Orangequat, kumquat x Satsuma cross) 14-18 degrees Natsumikan (more like an Orange of Grapefruit, a bit bitter and can be sour) 15-18 degrees (not sure exactly) Satsuma is pretty hardy, can usually survive zone 8b, often 8a if the climate isn't too far north (This list doesn't include other really sour mandarin-like varieties)...See MoreDave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agojohnmerr
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johnmerr