Heating and Cooling an unused 2nd floor on separate heat pump
padgett911
6 years ago
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tigerdunes
6 years agoAustin Air Companie
6 years agoRelated Discussions
Geothermal heat pump vs air source heat pump vs gas
Comments (27)Air source heat pumps don't make sense in areas where winter temps frequently fall below 32 degrees. Once you get below freezing, you will be running the auxillary heat a lot. If you decide to go the air source route, you will want a second stage gas fired auxillary heat. I live in the mid-atlantic region in the mountains and selected GT. That choice was coupled with a blown cellulose insulation package. My other choice was a propane heat/electric AC with a foam insulation package. Both options were roughly the same install cost. Both would have provided similar energy efficiency. At the time we selected, propane was 3.75 a gallon and rising (with no end in sight) so we went with GT. The delta cost for the GT system (above the cost for a HE propane heat and electric AC system) was $15,000 for the heat pumps and loop plumbing (including pumps) plus $17,000 for digging the pit. The pit excavation should not have cost as much as it did but it is a 12 ton system and the hole was gigantic (120' x 48' x 6'). We live on a mountain and hit a bunch of boulders that required special equipment to get out. Rocky soil also required a 1' base of stone dust to cover the loop piping. The total cost for the GT HVAC system including all ducting was $50,000 plus the pit excavation cost of 17K. It is a large investment and I would only recommend it if you plan to live in the house a very long time. My heating bills are great - maybe 300 dollars maximum a month during peak winter for an 8500 square foot home (5900 living and the rest a condiitoned but unfinished basement). Make sure that whatever equipment you choose can be maintained by more than 1 very qualified HVAC company who has many years of GT experience. In my area there is only 1 GT company who has over 20 years of experience but I am stuck with them for maintenance. There have been times when I wanted to fire them but cannot. Local competition is a good thing. Also - if you build a tight home make sure that you consider ventilation and dehumidification in the HVAC design. I wound up adding both a whole house dehumidifier and energy recovery vent after we moved in becuase we had basement moisture issues as well as stale air in the winter. Tight homes are great for energy efficiency but can create health issues too. It is easy to deal with as long as you plan for it. Good luck with the build....See MoreIs it smart to use radiant heating on 1-floor and heat pump on 2nd?
Comments (14)If the house is designed to current IECC energy codes or better, the 1st level radiant could probably handle most of the home's heating loads including 2nd level. If upfront costs and operating costs are important, you may want to reconsider radiant floors and propane as main energy source. Here is [recent thread on propane[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/energy-star-most-efficient-2019-boilers-help-reading-the-stats-dsvw-vd~5649781?n=36) boilers. To summarize, propane is the most expensive common fuel. It would cost less to heat your home using electricity, as long as you choose high efficiency heat pump options. Cold climate heat pumps are available for your climate so choose a contractor who is comfortable with them and follow their guidance on any needed backup. Tough to beat woodstove with frequent power outages. Radiant only provides heating so it's a tougher choice if the upgrade costs are worthwhile in your climate. Cold climate heat pumps can satisfy heating needs with generally less upfront costs. Ductless heat pumps are packaged systems that are easy to install. Providing sweat equity for radiant floors will be needed to compete in upfront costs. Tubing, manifolds, pumps, appliances, controls, pipes, all done in custom snowflake fashion. Giant propane tank, piped fos$il fuels into house, combustion exhaust to expel, hopefully not backdraft. Most people choosing radiant are going off experience based on inefficient homes. Building to current codes changes the comfort dynamic and some find radiant less comfortable due to thermostat delay response. Radiant floors rarely make economic sense for efficient homes....See Moreheat pump, radiators, oh my!
Comments (20)Two questions: does the hybrid system use gas all the time or the times when the temp is 40+ it uses electric? That’s the only confusing part for me Are there hybrid condensers that have various temperatures where they activate the furnace? 40 deg? 20 deg? If so, how does the price of the unit vary for the temperatures? Hybrid systems AKA duel fuel set ups are controlled to perform how you want them to based on temperatures and or fuel costs to minimize operating expenses depending on what the weather is doing. If a certain portion of the system performs poorly during really cold weather, then the more costlier fuel option of the furnace is used to provide heat for the structure. A gas furnace will still need electric to operate blower / control related aspects, but the fuel used for heating can be Natural Gas, Propane etc. Or if the furnace is a fuel oil burner, boiler etc. These things are often coined as emergency heat or backup heating. Back up heating can also be electric strip heat, for situations in which there are no other fuel choices. A heat pump is much more energy efficient than electric strip heat. The off set of operational cost can be as much as 75% less, depending on a host of various factors in terms of all electric heating systems. Sizing of the heat pump can be a big factor among other things, as to when you would want to switch from heat pump operation to gas or other optional fuel for heating. It won't hurt anything to run the heat pump down to 10 or 15 degrees outside ambient temp before making the switch from heat pump to other optional heating fuel. If the system is set up properly the optional fuel part of the system is simply energized to take over if the heat pump defrost cycle is triggered. Just realize that the heat pump won't produce as much heat at 10 or 15 degrees as opposed to 30 or 40 degree and higher (there's more heat in warmer outdoor air). A well insulated structure and this probably won't matter all that much. The control you use to switch over should be adjustable so if the initial set up is lacking at some point your servicing HVAC contractor can make simple adjustments as needed. Pricing really depends on equipment selection, features, efficiency, controls. A more elaborate system could be 2 speed. Which can offset the cost due to efficiency of the system. A heat pump system would be used all year long as opposed to seasonal if it was air conditioning only. The next step up from 2 speed would be completely variable. Those can be limited to 5 stages depending on manufacturer or completely variable the ability to ramp from 10-20% of capacity up to 110% of capacity. Obviously the completely variable system would cost more....See MoreNew furnace not heating 2nd floor as well as old furnace
Comments (7)"This is true in general but if this was not happening before the replacement, they did something else when they replaced the equipment." It's pretty clear the replacement contractor "did something else when they replaced the equipment." Indeed, based on the information provided by the OP, the replacement contractor 1.) reduced the heat output of the furnace by 2%, 2.) reduced the airflow by 6%, 3.) improved the combustion efficiency by 22%, and 4.) modified the ductwork. The OP needed to restrict the air flow to the 2nd floor prior to the equipment replacement and needs to restrict the flow to the 1st floor now. I see that as a six of one, half dozen of the other issue and a reasonable trade off for the increase in combustion efficiency. Attempting to control two levels utilizing a thermostat located on one level doesn't typically result in comfortable conditions on both levels at the same time. That's what zoning is for. We don't know whether the replacement contractor proposed a zoning option. Absent zoning, balancing dampers will help compensate for differences in the heating and cooling demands of both levels. They may need to be adjusted seasonally or even during temperature extremes in a single season....See Morepadgett911
6 years agoweedmeister
6 years agoAustin Air Companie
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agotigerdunes
6 years agomike_home
6 years agoVith
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
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