Hi Alex,

Well, it looks like you didn't wait until the New Year to get started. No surprise that it is colder at your place than mine. It's 4 degrees here -- don't know what it got down to last night, but my guess would be close to zero. We have about an inch of snow on the ground. But the Sun is shining, for a change, so I anticipate there will be some snow melting today. I'll be going down to the basement in a few minutes to tend to my zinnias. This was a recent bloom.

Namaste.

ZM

Love that whirligig coloration! That was another of the goals that I realized I had in the back of my mind - to promote whirligig color bands in some of the next generation zinnias. Still have an old pkt of whirligig seeds that I'll go ahead and plant what's left. Plus there are the seeds that came from my friends. The whirligig-type orange blooms they came from were from my own hybrid seed - I didn't get any like it in my garden; glad I gave them some! :) We do a bit of share-gardening like that from time to time.

Oh, and I made an error in my post up above. I won't be starting seeds until the end of next month, not this month. It's sort of a psychological aberration that I tend to think that the month is over once Christmas is past. :)

Alex

Hi Alex,

" I won't be starting seeds until the end of next month, not this
month. It's sort of a psychological aberration that I tend to think that
the month is over once Christmas is past. "

The end of next month will be soon enough. I have to admit that I really enjoy my indoor zinnia project, pot washing and all. A couple of days ago we had a less-cold-than-usual day (temp got above 32) and I took that opportunity to blast some of my used pots with the hose outdoors. I have a special hose nozzle that gives an extra strong stream that does a credible job of getting most of the old medium out-of and off-of the pot, enough such that I can detail the pot indoors to get it reasonably clean. Its a good thing I used that opportunity when I got it, because the temperature has been ridiculous cold ever since -- today our high is going to be single digit and our lows have been below zero.

I am currently experimenting on various ways of doing pre-germination of
zinnias, because my current one-seed-per 3.25-inch pot method yields
only about 50% or less plants. If a seed "proves itself" by
pre-germinating, I have more confidence in devoting a pot to it. It
turns out there are a lot of techniques for doing pre-germination, and a
lot of possible problems, so this is proving to be a much more
interesting project than I originally thought it to be.

This is one of my current blooming zinnias.

Happy New Year.

ZM

Today is Tuesday, and Houzz only just now published your comment from Sunday. Oh well, I guess they deserve the holidays off, too.

Having a heat wave right now - it's 19 degrees. Weds and Thurs we go down to single digits during the day and possible double digits below zero after dark.

Wonder why the woollies don't self-pollinate? Well, as you say, it works to your favor, so no complaints. What will you cross them with?

Am anxious to get a move-on, but once I've started things, I'm committed to it, and it's just still too early. It's going to be tricky as it is, space-wise. Easy enough to start several dozen petunias, pansies or other small seeds in a small space. But eventually they have to be transplanted into something bigger - OMG! Fortunately, many of the things that I'm starting in mass can handle more cold than others, so as long as I don't start them too early, I should be able to shift some things out to the unheated greenhouse once they overrun the inside light tables. In the past, I've rigged little mini-greenhouses within the larger greenhouse by simply covering the plastic flats I keep the cups or pots in, with another clear plastic flat as a lid. It only would need that extra protection at night or on cloudy days once the weather doesn't stay as cold as it is right now. But that's the thing - it won't work until the weather cooperates.

Later -

Alex

Hi Alex,

We haven't been as cold as you, but we have been having record or near-record coldness -- single digit highs and single digit below zero lows. The air is remarkably dry, and some of our snow cover has simply sublimated away.

" Wonder why the woollies don't self-pollinate? Well, as you say, it works to your favor, so no complaints. "

They do self-pollinate some, at least some of them do. However, I had always supposed that conventional pollen florets 100-percent self-fertilized, and I have now come to doubt that. This is a before-and-after picture of a current Woolly.

" What will you cross them with? "

Mostly larger non-tubular blooms, like this one.

Namaste.

ZM

That's a beauty, and I see that little whirligig influence in the pink center peeping out. Will be interesting to see what results.

All the weather stations say we are at double-minus digits this morning, but I'm happy to report that the temperature in the ferals' "solarium" reads 8 degrees. We have a 9th cat (Little Mama's only female offspring - another blackie we call Zee) in the house part time during this cold spell. Her choice, though she is afraid of "the Man". She feels secure by my side, but if I move, she runs under my table or into the cat room and hides in a big cardboard "playroom" I set up for the kids. She has slept in there for the last few nights. She apparently understands about litter boxes, though I have yet to actually see her use one. She amused me, though, in the beginning of this episode by her response to my instructions. I'd placed her in the boxes numerous times so she could feel the litter under her feet. Then later, I'd had her follow me (not hard to do as she tends to follow me anyway) and I simply pointed at the box, whereupon she went and stood in it and looked up at me. Then I pointed at the other box and she went and stood in it, too! Ha! I took that as an omen, and stopped worrying about "accidents". Later, if she persists in wanting inside, I'll teach her about the cattery door, so she can go out there as well. We have 3 more boxes in the cattery, and what I refer to as the latrine for those more feral who don't like to be in a box, but are polite enough not to "go" in the house. It's more work for me, but what the hey. I took this upon myself after all.

John's ordered more thermometers, and the next one we mount should be outside the kitchen window away from the solarium, so I can have at least some idea what the patio temps really are. If I were younger and feeling more committed to the quest for accuracy, I should have one out in the corral garden that I wade through the snow every morning to read. Not gonna happen.

Hope everyone is staying warm.

Namaste,

Alex

Hello Alex,

" If I were younger and feeling more committed to the quest for accuracy, I
should have one out in the corral garden that I wade through the snow
every morning to read. Not gonna happen. "

They probably make a thermometer that transmits its temperature to a reading station. Something like a WIFI-enabled thermometer. There is a small airport about 8 miles away from here that has an "official" temperature that winds up on my opening computer screen. That is currently reading 13 degrees and "sunny". We are supposed to get a break in the cold Sunday morning, with above freezing temps and a possibility of rain or snow. Our house thermostat is set at 68-degrees, and for us that passes as "warm enough". I understand that Europeans keep their houses cooler than that.

I prepared another 2' x 4' growing shelf in our "grow room" yesterday, and it is already partially populated. I have four 2-bulb T8 shoplights over the shelf, which is "standard" for me. I will be doing some re-potting today that will probably complete that shelf. This is a tubular bloom that I consider "graceful".

Namaste.

ZM

So what kind of pre-germination technique are you doing? Something different, I'm gathering, than the so-called Deno-method that I use. You possibly watched that video I posted about the daylily germination in perlite that's been watered with an extremely dilute solution of hydrogen peroxide. I'm going to be using that for other things as well. I'm interested in any different 'takes' on the process.

Alex

Hi Alex,

" So what kind of pre-germination technique are you doing? Something different, I'm gathering, than the so-called Deno-method that I use. "

I am continuing to experiment with the old paper towel in a Snack-sized Ziploc bag method that I tried a few years ago. Deno was a proponent of using folded paper towels as a medium, but those were in Baggies rather than Ziplocs. Deno felt that the plastic in Ziplocs was too thick for good oxygen transmission, and he may have been right. Deno's methods were geared toward possible long germination times, and relatively cool 70-degree temperatures. Deno felt that the warmer germination temperatures achieved by heating mats were actually harmful.

As you may already know, Dr. Norman Deno died last year at the age of 96. I feel fortunate to have purchased his self-published books while he was still selling them. I understand they are now public domain.

For zinnias I am looking for germinations in less than a week, and I feel that zinnias can germinate well at warmer temperatures. Although I have had a few seedlings emerge from pots as long as three weeks from when they were planted. I consider those long germination times as anomalous. In the Spring I usually find a few "volunteer" zinnias whose seeds have survived the Winter in the garden, so their germination times have been several months.

For indoor starting my target germination time is 1 to 4 days. I have a few zinnia seedlings growing right now that germinated in a Ziploc in just one day. A couple germinated in significantly less than 24 hours. I count the appearance of a root from the end of the seed as "germination" and I place those seeds in a 3.25-inch pot when I find them. The goal of these pre-germination experiments is to avoid having 3.25-inch pots loaded with dead seeds. I anticipate that these experiments will continue until Spring. My current Ziplocs are testing the response of zinnia seeds to Myclobutanil and to Tebuconazole (both systemic fungicides.)

This is (was) a current Razzle Dazzle bloom.

Namaste.

ZM

ZM -

As you may already know, Dr. Norman Deno died last year at the age of
96. I feel fortunate to have purchased his self-published books while he
was still selling them. I understand they are now public domain.

I didn't know it; if you'd asked, I would have said he had probably died years ago. Well, rest in peace, Norman. Your devachan will be a happy beautiful place of flowers that never get sick or bug-infested. And no moles, either.

I, too, had owned his manuals, purchased through J L Hudson, Seedsman - think I saw them listed for sale again in the latest catalog. However, you are right that they are online now in PDF form, for which I've been grateful a few times, since I sold my Denos to a customer who came in specifically looking for them. I was a little hesitant mentioning that I had a set at the house; I tend not to want to sell any of my reference library. But I decided her need was greater; I've sort of passed out of that phase of trying to start anything and everything from seed just for the challenge. And now, anyway, if there's something I have a question about, I go check the PDF file. Think I downloaded it - yeah, I see two different PDFs in my file. There should be a 3rd, but that's good enough.

I have a few zinnia seedlings growing right now that germinated in a
Ziploc in just one day. A couple germinated in significantly less than
24 hours.

I've had that happen, too - it speaks well for the process, doesn't it? I've still been using the lighter weight poly bags - that may have been me that you got that "superstition" about the heavier bags being harder to breathe through from - but I'm thinking now that I'm probably wrong about it. For the amount of time the seed/seedling is in the bag, there shouldn't be a problem. But old habits die hard, as they say. :)

I count the appearance of a root from the end of the seed as
"germination" and I place those seeds in a 3.25-inch pot when I find
them. The goal of these pre-germination experiments is to avoid having
3.25-inch pots loaded with dead seeds.

Yeah, me too. It's not just the wasted space, it's the potting mix that's been "contaminated", so to speak, that I can't use for seed starting afterwards. I do use it quite often, however, when I'm repotting things to bigger pots, so it doesn't actually go to waste. Unless there were some other reason for not wanting to plant with the "used" soil, I figure it's OK with larger plants that are past the damping-off stage. So far, I believe I've been proven right on that one.

Counting the days till I get to see my own little greenies - about 3 weeks to go...

Namaste

Alex

Hi Alex,

" I've still been using the lighter weight poly bags - that may have been
me that you got that "superstition" about the heavier bags being harder
to breathe through from... "

You may have said that, but you would have just been echoing what Dr. Deno said. On page 14 of Seed Germination Theory and Practice, Second Edition, Dr. Deno says, "Also a special warning against Ziploc bags and other polyethylene bags that are of thicker polyethylene film and are constructed to seal tightly."

" For the amount of time the seed/seedling is in the bag, there shouldn't be a problem. But old habits die hard, as they say. "

As you say, the zinnia seeds typically aren't in the Ziploc bags for more than a few days, so the Ziploc's reduced permeability to oxygen may not be a problem. But the Ziplocs don't have a lot of airspace, if any, so I am keeping an open mind on this issue. I have experimented with using hydrogen peroxide solution in various dilutions to wet the paper towel pads and supply some oxygen via the peroxide. Its too early to tell whether the hydrogen peroxide is justified.

I have developed a liking for zinnia recombinants that somewhat resemble cosmos blooms, like this one.

Namaste.

ZM

ZM -

You may have said that, but you would have just been echoing what Dr.
Deno said. On page 14 of Seed Germination Theory and Practice, Second
Edition, Dr. Deno says, "Also a special warning against Ziploc
bags and other polyethylene bags that are of thicker polyethylene film
and are constructed to seal tightly."

Well, there you go - I must have read it and forgot I had; it did stick in my mind and seem to make sense. Though, it does seem that with the quicker germinating seeds, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Still, I'll continue with my usual practice of using the thinner plastic. Let us know of your results with your experimentation.

I have experimented with using hydrogen peroxide solution in various
dilutions to wet the paper towel pads and supply some oxygen via the
peroxide. Its too early to tell whether the hydrogen peroxide is
justified.

Ha! I have to confess I didn't even think about the hydrogen peroxide as an oxidizer, but only as an antiseptic. Well, duh. :) I used it for the first time as a wetting agent (very dilute) in my pre-germination packets when I did a test run on some pepper and eggplant seeds to check viability for this growing season. Don't know if it sped up the germination, as I didn't have a "control batch", but I think it's possible it did. BTW, was pleasantly surprised when I got good germination from a mixture of seed saved from store-bought bell peppers. Yeah, I know they're hybrids, but I'm finding out that you can still get something tasty or pretty from F2 hybrid seeds, so I thought I'd give these guys a chance this season.

I like that cosmos-flowered bloom! Very nice shape. Zinnias are definitely versatile, shape-wise. That makes me want to dig back through my seed archive and find the batch that produced my Lotus. It had some interesting progeny as well.

OK, this is totally off the subject, but let me run this idea by you. When I set up the cat shelters this fall, one of the ferals was always hanging out on the west side of the house, so I just sort of haphazardly stuck one of my styrofoam boxes over there. It's weighted down and it's under an old table that keeps snow from falling on it, but I never got around to packing straw or other insulation around the outside of the box, as I have with all the others; there's only straw inside the box for insulation. My question is this: can that prevailing west wind hitting the bare styrofoam back of the box, make the box colder than it would if it had a windbreak? John says that windchill only has an effect as it's hitting our skin, but that the air temperature isn't really any colder; which I get that concept. But does it extend to the box in question? Providing that the opening is on the east side, and that wind isn't blowing right into the box, is the box as warm as it might otherwise be if it had a hay bale behind it as windbreak?

I'm asking because - surprise, surprise - the feral in question has been using that shelter, and I'm wondering if, sometime when she's away, if I should sneak a hay bale or two over there. I don't want to spook her, though. She's one of the untouchables.

Alex

Hi Alex,

" ...is the box as warm as it might otherwise be if it had a hay bale behind it as windbreak? "

The hay will help, actually in several ways. It will add to the already excellent insulation of the styrofoam, and it will reduce the airspeed around the box, thereby decreasing heat transfer from inside the box to the outside environment. It might even reduce the amount of air that is flowing into and out of the opening on the east side.

It would be nice if you had a thermometer reading the temperature inside the box, with a handy readout inside your house. If you had one of those heat mats used to heat plant pots or seedling trays, it could help warm the inside of the box. It might be a good idea to cover the heat mat with some of the material on the floor of the box, if that is earth or cat litter, and not styrofoam. This would be another job for a WIFI enabled thermometer.

Namaste.

ZM

ZM -

It would be nice if you had a thermometer reading the temperature inside
the box, with a handy readout inside your house. If you had one of
those heat mats used to heat plant pots or seedling trays, it could help
warm the inside of the box.

I'm thinking you and CeeKay must be independently wealthy -LOL! Listen, Zensama, the catfood bill alone is embarrassingly high; add to that the meds we sometimes buy for them, and the vet visits, and all the other little things we pick up here and there. I can't afford any more that might make the ideal environment. I am maxed out in every way it is possible to be maxed out with these creatures. People already think we are crazy cat people. They probably whisper behind our backs in the cat food aisles. But, as it says in the Gita, "Do your own duty; the duty of another is full of danger." Sigh. Once they are all gone, however, this must never happen again.

20 days till seed drop...

Namaste

Alex

Hello Alex,

" I am maxed out in every way it is possible to be maxed out with these creatures. "

We have a guinea house that we were concerned about during our recent below-zero period. So I will shop for a remote thermometer for our guinea house. We probably need that a lot more than you need a remote thermometer in your feral's styrofoam box. I recall that years ago there was a home "weather station" for sale that would give you an indoor readout of outdoor temperature, and some other info. It was a little "pricey" so we didn't get one.

But recent advances in WIFI technology might make remote temperature sensing feasible, or maybe just a thermocouple on the end of a long wire could do the trick. I'll let you know if I come up with something. I don't know about CeeKay, but I am definitely not independently (or dependently) wealthy. But I do plan to upgrade my old Nikon D3200, so I am not destitute.

Apparently Houzz has reduced the size of our photo "thumbnails" considerably. This is a new bloom on a scabious recombinant and an interesting tubie.

Namaste.

ZM

Hello everyone,

Apparently this size-of-the-photos discrepancy is Browser dependent. I see the problem only in Firefox, and do not see it in Microsoft Edge or Internet Explorer. Strange. So Houzz is not responsible for it, at least not directly. Right now, to me, it appears to be a Firefox problem. And now that I have changed options in Firefox, the problem seems to be gone in Firefox. Never mind. I'm glad I saved a screenshot of the problem.

Incidentally, the advantage of displaying smaller thumbs side-by-side is illustrated in this screen grab from a message of mine over at the National Gardening Association.

ZM

They were talking about the new format in the other forum I frequent, but I have to admit, I hadn't really noticed. Not paying attention, obviously!

We have a guinea house that we were concerned about during our recent below-zero period.

How are those guineas doing? No more chupacabra attacks? With them you could probably rig up a space heater on a long extension cord. I'm always afraid to have any electrical wiring where the possums and raccoons travel, or I might be tempted to sometimes set a space heater on the porch. But it's just a little too scary as it is. Oh, well; the cats have furcoats. Hope the guineas can take the cold, too. Won't be for too much longer, thankfully. We are in a warm-up, but by the weekend, temps plummet again.

17 days till seed drop...

Namaste,

Alex

Hello Alex,

Well, we got that predicted Winter storm, the rain turned to sleet and snow and the ground is white with an icy mixture. The trees apparently have a thin coating of ice on them. The sky is grey, with no hint of a Sun. And to top that all off, it is freakin' windy. I just hope we don't lose our electricity. The suet cake bird feeder outside my window is very busy. We will probably be replacing that cake today.

" How are those guineas doing? No more chupacabra attacks? "

A group of raccoons mounted a devastating raid on our guinea house last Spring. They were able to reach through the chicken wire covering of the guinea house and grab young guineas and pull them close enough to the wire to bite them through the wire. The raccoons killed nearly half of our young guineas in one night. We built an improved guinea house using Gopher Wire instead of Chicken Wire, and that has been secure. However, when the guineas reach the "teenager" stage, we open the guinea house and the guineas explore the world, and become vulnerable to attack by a number of different predators, including raccoons, possums, hawks, owls, and coyotes. And, of course, chupacabras. But the more mature guineas are not easy prey, and our recent losses have been very limited. Our Tick population will be well controlled next Spring, as it has been every year since we started raising guineas.

" ...you could probably rig up a space heater on a long extension cord. I'm
always afraid to have any electrical wiring where the possums and
raccoons travel, or I might be tempted to sometimes set a space heater
on the porch. "

My son has rigged a couple of heat lamps in the guinea house, and an electric heater for their water. And he has covered the house with a second layer of big tarps to insulate it better. For several years now we have had 100-foot outdoor extension cords just lying on the ground to provide electricity for the poultry and in-garden bug zappers, and, knock on wood, so far we haven't had a problem with wild life and the cords. Deer have even left deep hoof prints near the wire.

" Hope the guineas can take the cold, too. "

They can, surprisingly well. This is one of my indoor blooms that I will be pollinating today.

Namaste.

ZM

Hi I have been casually loitering Zinnia breeding threads. I am completely new even to growing them straight out of packet but contemplating to breed cool toned zinnia without visible yellow disk florets maybe wide petaled. You must have inspired so many people with your work, Zen Man- who was the lady into breeding bluish Zinnia?

It's totally cultivar starved in Australia but could get Haageana Aztec Burgundy Bicolor off eBay (don't know if I'd ever see it again if this stock exhaust). No Uproar available here yet only Burpeenian available are Cuctus type in mixed colours Half a dozen single colours and Queen lime/red A$7.50 for 25 seeds sold at eBay from just one seller -no other bicolours.

Not really fussed about size of flowers ( growth habit more important, spray type would be nice) but wishing Zinnias flowers in delicate ethereal shades, say, like Larkspurs. So far, I have Lilliput mix (no single colours available here), Scabiosa Flowered mix, Envy and Exquisite (pink) with Isabellina thrown in as gift from the seller who doesn't know I don't like warm colours much. I must get Polar Bear and Purple prince I am thinking, and definitely the said Haageana because it's a rarity. Purple's only sold here in this one and Violet Queen by the way.

Someday, when AUD is stronger against British Pound, I am hoping to spend over a hundred $$ at Chiltern Seeds in UK. They got heaps of other flower seeds I have been salivating over.

Sayuri from Southern part of Australia (equivalent to Zone 9???).

Hi Guys
I'm Back, No More Locusts Just Giant African Land Snails and a Roman Snail....

Nothing Exciting Has Been Happening Here AT All Apart From Maybe Getting a LOT of Book Done....
But That's It Really....

Hello S I,

Welcome to this zinnia hobby message thread. And welcome to Houzz.

" Sayuri from Southern part of Australia (equivalent to Zone 9???). "

Is Sayuri your name? I entered Sayuri in Wikipedia and the only information there was about a young musician-singer-song writer.

" It's totally cultivar starved in Australia ... So far, I have Lilliput mix (no single colours available here), Scabiosa Flowered mix, Envy and Exquisite (pink) with Isabellina thrown in as gift from the seller who doesn't know I don't like warm colours much. I must get Polar Bear and Purple prince I am thinking, and definitely the said Haageana because it's a rarity. Purple's only sold here in this one and Violet Queen by the way. "

That is a good start. You could accomplish a lot just crossing Scabiosa Mix with larger zinnias. As you know, Australia has relatively strict importation rules, but you can shop for seeds on the international market of companies that will ship to Australia. Swallowtail Garden Seeds, a USA company, has a reasonably good selection of zinnia seeds, and they do ship internationally, including to Australia. You can find more about them at this link: Swallowtail Garden Seeds

There are other seed companies that sell internationally, and we can discuss them. But Swallowtail is the only one I know much about. However, I do not know about Exchange Rates, and they can change. And be a big factor in international shopping.

" ...who was the lady into breeding bluish Zinnia? "

Actually, I don't know who you are referring to. Perhaps someone else can help me on this one.

It's Winter here, which means it is Summer in Australia, and you could plant some of those zinnia seeds any day now. How much space do you have available to grow zinnias in? Tell us more about yourself and your situation.

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Hello, hello Ninecrow,

" I'm Back, No More Locusts Just Giant African Land Snails and a Roman Snail.... "

Those sound like they would be harder to take care of than a locust.

" Getting a LOT of Book Done.... "

Chuckle. I am guessing that means you have been reading a lot of books. Technically, we speak the same language. But sometimes I wonder....

And, about those snails. You were in a pet store and saw them and they were just too cute to resist...

Welcome back, Ninecrow.

ZM

Hi SI from Australia! Nice of you to drop in and join us. And - yo, Ninecrow! How's it going?

I've purchased some fairly decent seeds from Swallowtail myself, so I add my recommendation to ZM's. I see they do ship to Australia for $7.95, though I don't know if there's some other charge or duty to pay. If you're looking to work with bi-colors then you should get some whirligigs, which Swallowtail does offer. Those will cross with other Z. elegans such as the cactus flowered varieties. My favorite hybrids have been whirligig/cactus crosses.

About the lady trying to breed blue zinnias, you might be referring to some discussion we had on this thread, many sessions back. It wasn't just one of us; a number of us were saying it would be wonderful if such a thing could be bred, though no one has to this point. The closest I've seen is a light lavender shade. ZM had one of those. I've come up with a mauve-lavender, but nothing really close to blue.

Ninecrow - where do you keep your snails? Do you have a terrarium for them? And what do they eat? And how big are they? We need details! :)

And by " Getting a LOT of Book Done.... " - are you perhaps writing a book?

Nothing too exciting here either. Now at 15 days till Seed Drop...meaning, 15 more days till I plan to start my daylily seeds germinating. Can you tell I'm looking forward to it? LOL

Alex

Hi, hope I have caught you in time during you are active online.

I must admit my crime in disliking zinnia in the past, because ones that I see down here always had some what opaque, muddy tone that tend to yellow/orange spectrum, even pink looked dirty sarmon - UNTIL I saw these below that you guys have grown, in the palette of Papaver rhoeas cultivar called 'Angels Choirs' :

As you can see, it's all over the place in flower forms but the colours... Loretta, hi, did you bred some of them? Hi Alex, I have noticed your works as well in this circle also.

Checking out Swallowtail yes they have so many zinnias and some of Zahara series catch my eyes( did you say Zaharas have different chromosome# therefore unsuitable to cross with elegans ZenMan?). I have wanted Zinderellas for a while. Will some of my scabiosa flowered turn out to be Zinderella?

However, I'd like to shop at a UK merchant Chiltern because they have plethora of other flowers that I usually like to grow and they also have Zinderellas. Well, when exchange rate is a bit better - currently hovering 1AUD to .58GBP at best :-{.

When it's ready to order internationally, I am contacting OZ bio-security authority to be sure. I have already downloaded their list of plant species permitted.

It's definitely equivalent to Zone 9b here may even be 10a (frost about a third of winter, coldest about 3 degrees Celsius). It's like August over northern hemisphere now. Very Mediterranean, although global warming making it more subtropic like lately causing monsoon like weather.

My zinnias are in the stage of just sowed to 2nd true leaves. Please tell me why all my seedlings grow so slow?? Many of non-zinnia seedlings (like Snapdragons, even common Salvias) stay cotyledon stage or the first true leaves stage for months then die. Is it compaction of potting soil??? been giving trace element in the form of seaweed emulsion. My have to cheat by smearing my GA3.

Hoping to catch you soon,

Sayuri (real name).

Hello Sayuri,

" - who was the lady into breeding bluish Zinnia? "

I guess I was the one breeding the bluish zinnia, although I am "no lady".

" My zinnias are in the stage of just sowed to 2nd true leaves. Please
tell me why all my seedlings grow so slow?? Many of non-zinnia
seedlings (like Snapdragons, even common Salvias) stay cotyledon stage
or the first true leaves stage for months then die. "

Zinnia seedlings naturally grow faster then most flower seedlings. Zinnias can bloom in 6 weeks from seed, so they can't "mess around" to achieve that. But your seedlings should not just die. What are you using for potting soil? Do an "autopsy" on some of the dead seedlings, to see what condition their root system is in. Do you have a microscope? Rather than a lack of seaweed or GA3, I suspect something in your potting soil is destroying your plant roots. Do you ever see any Fungus Gnats flying around your plants? More later.

ZM

Hello Sayuri,

Well, technically it is "later", so a few more comments.

"...but wishing Zinnias flowers in delicate ethereal shades, say, like Larkspurs."

You might be interested in Renee Garden's Cool Crayon Colors zinnias if they are available to you.

" ...did you say Zaharas have different chromosome# therefore unsuitable to cross with elegans "

Yes, the Zaharas have 46 chromosomes, whereas the elegans (violacea) have 24 chromosomes. The hybrids would be sterile (not produce viable seeds).

" Will some of my scabiosa flowered turn out to be Zinderella? "

No, most of the scabiosa flowered zinnias are on shorter plants with smaller flowers. It's not just a matter of flower color. Unfortunately, not all of the Zinderellas turn out to be Zinderella. Many of the scabious zinnias have a problem "coming true" for some reason. So, ironically, your zinnia breeding can be just selecting for specimens that look like the picture on the seed packet or in the seed catalog. More later.

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Hi Zen Man, realized non of the photos I pasted from PInterest made it on my previous post. I certainly pasted those pale lavenders of yours in it.

I am not aiming true blue. I rather like lavenders and mauves and cool violets and magentas in ombre gradating to white.

Well, I only killed a few Zinnia seedlings because of over watering (it's very obvious with zinnia) although the live ones still growing very slowly despite of the fact that the temperature being in high 20s and 30s (Celsius, sorry, not familiar with Fahrenheit ). The UV intensity also is very high down under. Almost any plants appreciate a little shade during summer here.

It's other species damping down after long periods (like months) of cotyledon stage. I was using bagged compost ( like more porous potting soil) mixed with small amount of sand. I recently discovered hardening of the soil presumably of very fine grade sand causing it to compact. Never particularity fertilized small seedlings other than occasional seaweed emulsion.

Thus I have now switched to seed raising coir block with coarse horticultural propagation sand as needed, like sprinkling on top of the seeds which I often do to middle eastern Lamiceae seeds.

It still frustrate me that all my seedlings including zinnia growing slow - they usually fare better transplanted in the ground given protections from slugs and warm scavenging birds. Is it because the ground could provide more even environment without fracturing temperature or moisture level like plastic containers experience? To counter such adversities of container culture, I have been using Styrofoam boxes with drainage to house all my potted seeds though...

Sayuri.

Hello Sayuri,

"..realized non of the photos I pasted from PInterest made it on my previous post."

Well, it looks like you figured out how to insert photos. Did you use the little Photo icon that appears at the bottom of your text entry field to insert the Photos in your message? Without using the Photo icon, I am going to try a simple Copy and Paste of a JPG file here. The picture appeared in my message, but I could not post the message because of the huge message size with the photo embedded in the text. I got this message when I tried to post the message containing it.

Your post is 381029 characters too long, posts can be up to 21800 characters. Please make it a little shorter and try again.

This is the very same photo inserted here via the Photo icon.

In order to see my photos that I post here at their full size, simply click on them. The photo will expand to near full screen. Click on your F11 key to remove your Browser's headings, which will make room for the photo to expand to nearly fill your screen. To get your Browser headings back, simply click on F11 again. Expanding the photos probably won't work if you are reading this with a Smart Phone. It should work on a computer monitor.

I don't know if you can use a format other than JPG, but JPG files come in fine via the Photo icon. I use JPG files with pixel dimensions of 1000x800 and file sizes approximately 300 kilobytes. Your sizes may vary, but I wouldn't try to upload a huge file.

" Thus I have now switched to seed raising coir block with coarse
horticultural propagation sand as needed, like sprinkling on top of the
seeds which I often do to middle eastern Lamiceae seeds. "

That is a big change. I have never used coir block. I assume it is porous to allow root penetration. Has it been impregnated with any nutrients? Coarse
horticultural propagation sand sounds like a good thing. Also it probably has no nutrients, but for propagation it is probably intended to be just a supporting medium.

" Never particularity fertilized small seedlings other than occasional seaweed emulsion. "

That could be a problem for your seedlings. The cotyledons contain enough stored nutrients to get maybe one true leaf pair developed, but nutrient deficiencies probably set in after that. I use both of the Better-Gro Orchid Foods for my indoor zinnia seedlings as well as the full-grown zinnia plants. If the Better-Gro Orchid Foods are available to you, I suggest you try them. Otherwise, try something equivalent that is available to you. Can you use Amazon Australia?

Nutrients that supply Nitrogen in the form of Urea are not suitable for use in non-soil growing media. Urea depends on soil-borne microbes to break it down into usable Nitrate and Ammonium ions, and many growing media do not contain those microbes. More tomorrow.

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Hi, I did use copy and paste but pictures all disappeared after posting so I am now saving images first in my computer and opening them using the photo icon.

According to the label, the seed raising mix coir contains some nutrients but it doesn't say what. I am going to get similar product to Better-Glow Orchid that's available here. It is a bit of 'figuring out' when ever you guys talk about particular chemical products, in terms of active ingredients etc. For example, I wanted to get hold of a similar product to Paysan 20 you speak highly of from your trials for my other propagation activities. Mind you it's not for Zinnia- the easiest going germination experience ever with them, like 2-3 days in summer temperature and robust looking seedlings at that. I am talking about seeds that need lengthy periods of stratification (in the fridge) or some of cuttings I sometimes propagate. I have found Paysan consisting of two forms of ammonia as its active ingredients from my memory - I haven't found one like that down here after a casual browsing. I have a bottle of cloudy ammonia (2%) however - can I some how use this instead?

Hope you are not in bed yet this time of a day (6:34pm at present). Sayuri.

I like the colouring of the zinnia in your last photo by the way, notice we spell it 'colour' instead of 'color' says a terrible speller=me.

Hello Sayuri,

" Hope you are not in bed yet this time of a day (6:34pm at present). "

I was in bed. Apparently I am several hours ahead of you in time zones. But not to worry.

" ...so I am now saving images first in my computer and opening them using the photo icon. "

And that is the way to do it. Now all you need is some way to take pictures of your own to post here. A camera or a smart phone could do that. Also, some software to edit your pictures. I think some photo software is free, and some is built into the camera or phone. For now, verbal descriptions can fill the need.

" notice we spell it 'colour' instead of 'color' "

And we spell it 'color' instead of 'colour'. I think we can live with a few spelling differences. I did a little research on your situation regarding soluble fertilizers, and I have to say, I have it a lot better here in the good old USA.

Australia must have some very stringent laws regarding Phosphorous content of fertilizers. The products available to you have ridiculously low Phosphorous contents. This product, available at Amazon Australia, has only one percent Phosphorous. And that is supposed to be a general purpose product !!! I can and do use products with twenty to thirty times more Phosphorous. Phosphorous is one of the "big three" plant nutrients. But Australia has reduced it to near-trace status. For Shame !!! Runoff from your zinnia garden is not going to melt the Polar Ice Cap. Do they even show on the label the nutrient contents of the seaweed stuff that is available to you?

However, Phosphorous deficiency usually isn't the first deficiency to show up in young plants. Your seedling problem may be something else. Let's focus on the water they are getting. Is it rain, or well water, or what?

Incidentally, Ammonia is not a substitute for Physan 20. But your seedlings are not dying for the lack of Physan 20. More later.

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Hi Alex
Yes I'm Wiring a Book, It's a Fantasy But Set Here, Now and With People Who Are Real....

This Fat Beast Was Gatchaman....

NOOOOOOOOOO! Is it your hand Alex? that's gross... must be harmless (to humans), but...

'The products available to you have ridiculously low Phosphorous contents'

That's because indigenous Australian plants hate Phosphorous, Zen Man. I myself have an experience in wilting Anigozanthos (kangaroo Paw) from very weak, diluted rust converter(Phosphoric Acid) splashing on the plant. It eventually recovered but took a long time.

Zinnia seedlings are the most robust things I have ever grown. However, I still think their growth rate is a tad slow under my care. That soil is black from heavy rains we had with unusual cold change in the last two days. It's in the pot they were sowed and half empty because I have transplanted some from this pot into the ground. The sowing was down just before I switched to coir.

Sayuri.

Hello Sayuri,

" That's because indigenous Australian plants hate Phosphorous, Zen Man. "

I wouldn't say "hate Phosphorous". Hate is a human emotion. Some indigenous Australian plants may have adapted to low levels of Phosphorous in the soil because some Australian soils have remarkably low levels of Phosphorous content. But no plant can live with absolutely no Phosphorous, and there seem to be some myths about indigenous Australian plants.

In any case, zinnias have a big appetite for nutrients, as do many garden plants, and the low-Phosphorous Australian garden products pose a real problem for growing healthy zinnias and many other non-indigenous plants that need a substantial amount of Phosphorous for normal growth. In fact, the link above would indicate that many indigenous Australian plants are ill-served by the low-Phosphorous products, and the term "myths" was used.

Congratulations on taking and posting a picture of your growing zinnia plants.

" Zinnia seedlings are the most robust things I have ever grown. However,
I still think their growth rate is a tad slow under my care. "

Well, they were crowded in that pot. And they were stretching for light because they were essentially in a hole and too close together. Maybe their growth rate will speed up once they get going in-ground. When a zinnia plant is completely un-crowded, it can take on a semi-bush structure with lots of developing side branches.

" The sowing was done just before I switched to coir. "

I have never used coir. Will be curious about your experiences with it. Hopefully your zinnias will not "hate" the coir. Chuckle. More later.

ZM

Hello again, Sayuri,

I may have commented about phone pictures before, but your phone picture reminded me. The phone pictures usually have a Portrait format (higher than wide) which has a disadvantage here because that keeps them from expanding as much when they are clicked on. I took the liberty of cropping this Landscape format from your picture.

Oh, a parting shot on The Myth of P-sensitive Natives.

ZM

Hello guess what I have been typing for nearly one hour to catch up before too late and the computer crashing twice think Firefox not so compatible with Houzz??? I need to make future drafts on Word files first.

O key, to cut long story short, I stand corrected both with my language and the phosphorus myth. The other Aussie plants not as sensitive as Anigozanthos.

As for over crowding of seedlings, I have running out of containers. I am aware that I am quite under prepared to embark on serious breeding operations at this point in time although I have some plans.

I am actually renting and there is a shortage of garden bed in the current property and even my relocated plants are still in pots and have yet to see ground:

Very big job...

my back yard:

AHHHH I must make it before your 11pm!

Sayuri.

I will buy phosphorus booster in conjunction with soluble fertilizer for flowers, aiming 3:2:2 ratio.

Sayuri - that looks like a good-sized area for some raised beds, and you already have many plants to fill them! I love it when the rest of the preparation work is done, and I've finally arrived at that point where I get to put plants in the ground. Oh yeah. Not that the actual planting isn't work, because it is. But - oh, so much more satisfying than clearing and preparing the ground. Well, except I do like the look of the neatly raked up beds awaiting planting. Wasgoing to post a pic, but can't find it, and now Owl is driving me crazy walking across my desk wanting my attention...must go. Later -

Alex

No it's My Hand and There is NOTHING Gross About Gatchaman!

Hello Sayuri,

Great pictures, and I notice you mastered the Landscape format.

" I have been spraying the area with herbicide for the landlord... "

I would try to minimize the use of herbicide, although I recognize that you may need to humor your landlord. As it happens, I am also a renter, but a long time renter, so I am comfortable with purchasing sand and other soil amendments for use on the gardens (a North garden and a South garden), even though I am not the owner. My total gardening area is only a fraction of an acre, but I could expand it, because this property is the grounds of a rural farm house which we are renting. There is an area about a hundred feet or more from the garden that has some Poison Ivy that I apply herbicide to. But I keep herbicide away from the garden itself. If I need to kill a plant, I have a sharp hoe. This is a view of part of my North Garden. You may notice that this part of Kansas is kind of flat. My garden has a gentle slope for natural drainage.

I do get a lot of exercise standing while using a variety of garden hoes, most of which were chosen from the Rogue Hoe tool line. My favorite hoe is their 7-inch Fiber Glass handle field hoe. I also have that hoe in the wooden handled version, which my son uses. I keep the hoes razor sharp by touching them up every 15 to 20 minutes of use with a handheld electric belt sander.

It used to take me a lot of time, maybe 15 minutes or more, sharpening my hoe with a file. After 15 or 20 minutes of use, I would want to re-sharpen it. I spent as much time sharpening my hoe as I did using it. Now, a minute or two with the belt sharpener, and I am good to go.

We have several inches of snow on the ground now, with more on the way. Indoor gardening feels really good when there is snow on the ground.

More later,

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Anymore Interesting Non Pink Tubey's ZM?
Thanks

ninecrew yeas I was going to correct my mistake how old is Gotchaman are snails have definite genders before mating? Notice u r in UK familiar with Chiltern Seeds? Love their selections and photos (very deceptive) although a little to be desired for serious amateur zinnia breeders?

Alex, that dead grass area is behind this wall:

Because he doesn't live near by and was struggling with traveling expenses to maintain the place I offered to look after the area behind this fence.

He is to have once over with his petrol run lawnmower once it was more workable (after glyphosate) coz I only got a corded electric one not powerful enough with unruly grass.

Notice I am posting as I go in increments now for a fear of the computer crashing.

Zen Man yes herbicide is a last resort mind I do not usually go for doing it with my gardens.

I wasn't going to landscape that dead area as much to build ornamental garden landscape but to build half raised garden beds(no financial resources for full raised beds). I am prepared to order a track load of soil and fill the rectangular beds with it.

I am surprised to know you are also renting Zen Man. I assumed most of you guys to be well off retirees.

It is interesting that you dislike pink zinnia ninecrew. My dislike is yellow orange scarlet spectrum of flowers.

I often see zinnias in spectrum down in Australia. Never in cool spectrum.

I also dislike yellow disc-florets of many daisies.

Your indoor zinnias are in top shape ZenMan are the grow lights LED??? Hate to think otherwise for the expenses...

I have yet to give any zinnia royal treatment like I do to my Salvia indica, Salvia pachyphylla etc. although I must if I want to breed nice zinnias.

Never grown zinnia from seeds before this season. Actively disliked them before I saw your pale lavender zinnias: DIVINE !!!

Unlike many of you in zone 5 or 6 our serious garden building seasons are in Autumn/Winter/early Spring when the ground is moist and workable.

The temperature to climb to 40 deg Celsius( 104 Fahrenheit) by thursday this week. I was side trucked yesterday to learn Unicode. Want to insert symbols for temperature and currency but not figured out yet.

Well, I have missed a bit, I see. Firstly, let me address Sayuri's statement:

I assumed most of you guys to be well off retirees.

Chuckle, snicker, SNORT! You can definitely leave me out of that assessment - ha! Well, yes, I'm semi-retired, if one can call it that, but far from being well off. Certainly not living in the manner to which I wish I'd become accustomed. But we manage to keep the cats (and ourselves) fed. And I'm a very accomplished scrounger. :)

Now, secondly, I don't have a cat walking across my keyboard as I did earlier, but I can't find the pic I'd been thinking about of the newly made beds. Instead, here's a somewhat later photo which shows the raised beds already planted. As you can see, Sayuri, I don't have sides to my beds - I've just shoveled the loose dirt from the paths (after tilling) onto the bed areas, raising them up somewhat. The looser the dirt, the easier it is to scoop it up and pile on the beds. And this area was soft and clear of grass and weeds because it had been under tarps for about a year and a half. I've done this in other areas, but none have worked as well as this, probably because the other spots had poorer, less loamy soil to begin with.

You're in a hurry, though, so I get the idea of the herbicide, even if, personally, I can't bring myself to trust a chemical that supposedly kills some plants, but not others. History has proven me wrong, but I still have a problem with the concept. Oh well - whatever.

My point is, you can make raised beds without the bother of being fancy about it. I do it every year, though I've been working on this area in particular, using straw mulch, to make it so I never have to till again, or rebuild the beds. I don't have a shot from 2017 corresponding to this exact location, but here's one from July 2017 in a couple of beds that would be to the left of these pictured:

You can't really tell, but the beds are still slightly higher than the paths, even after a couple of years. It's because, once built, they never get walked on. They'll be even higher this year because I intend to dump a load of composted manure on them. That may cost a bit, but it will be worth it.

Ninecrow - that is one audacious, bodacious snail!!! Wow - have never seen one like it. Cool. Go Gatchaman!

Namaste,

Alex

Hello Sayuri,

You can use the Character Map utility for an expanded list of Unicode symbols. For example, our present temperature is about 32°F. This is the £ symbol for British Pounds. The Character Map screen looks like this:

" are the grow lights LED??? "

No. I purchased most of my grow lights as T8 Fluorescent 2-bulb 4-foot shoplights starting back in 2004. The 4-foot T8 fluorescent bulbs have a rated life of 20,000 hours, so the majority of my original bulbs are still working. LEDs were not a viable candidate back in 2004. If I were just starting up today, I would consider LEDs seriously, but might pick T8 again.

Since we are past the 100 message mark, I will create a new part to this thread tomorrow.

Well, I see it is well after 11:00 pm, so I have to get my beauty sleep.

ZM

Hello all,

As promised, I created a continuation of this series over at It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 47

I hope to see you all over there.

ZM