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portlandmysteryrose

In Praise of The Prince and Others No Longer Offered by DA

I have ceased feeling surprised or shocked when the David Austin company willfully eliminates its own wonderful roses, pulling them commerce and punishing nurseries who wish to continue propagating from their stocks. I won't rant, yet again, on this thread regarding the potential loss of truly great roses. All I will say is that I would like DA to show me otherwise, but I fear that the business has fallen into hands which are more concerned with quick high profit than with a balance of creation, beauty and solvency.

On another note, although one gardener's treasure is another's disaster since the success of roses, like the market value of real estate property, depends on location, location, location, I grow and have grown a number of discontinued DAs which have become some of my most beloved roses,and one or two have contributed to the genetic lines of roses that I wouldn't want to be without.

Abe Darby is one DA cultivar probably disappearing from shelves as I type. Abe and I have a conflicted relationship, but I have grown him and adored his intensely fragrant blooms since the 90s. He is a parent of one of my all time favorites, Paul Barden's Marianne. I have seen Abe grown to perfection in photos of gardens which are blessed with the appropriate climate. Nothing compares, except perhaps his PNW offspring, Marianne, or Gloire de Dijon at her best. If Paul Barden had lost access to Abe, Marianne would never have been born.

Tradescant is another DA blast from the past. A gorgeous and fragrant thing in my garden, healthy even when sorely neglected. Mine grows and blooms in partial shade. The shrub is petite and tidy and wonderful for a tight space in the city. The color is sublime deep wine. The scent is old rose.

And then there's The Prince which is still blooming in my garden on November 22. The buds are struggling to unfurl in the cold, soggy weather, but I can see that the petals are slowly releasing their grip and giving one last flush their all.

For me, The Prince is irreplaceable. A lovely, healthy, remontant Gallica-like shrub that is perfectly suited to my tiny urban garden. He is at home among Polyanthas and Floribundas and smaller OGRs. His blooms are delightfully fragrant, and his color hits shades of purple reminiscent of Tuscany Superb and Cardinal de Richelieu. I am in the process of gathering funds to purchase a small stash of The Prince since I can't bear to lose him, and members on the forum have mentioned a couple of nurseries which are bucking the system and propagating this beauty, DA be darned!

What are your favorite Austins which have disappeared from commerce or are fading fast? Where do you garden, and why do you treasure the particular cultivars that you do? Thank you for sharing your stories and photos on my "DA rose preservation" thread! Perhaps we can all offer a bit of tea and sympathy and help each other locate lost roses before they're completely lost. Carol

Comments (91)

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Just thought of another oldie I have.

    The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild. I don't think he's being sold on the US DA website any longer. I am surprised at how well he is doing here own root in a 3 gal pot. He is still young but flowering much better this year than last year.

    William Shakespeare 2000. I heard he is on the chopping block but it could be a rumor..anyone know for sure? He is more magenta than red here in the summer. I am a huge sucker for quartered blooms!

    portlandmysteryrose thanked sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
  • portlandmysteryrose
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    It's wonderful to have a community of rose lovers with whom I can both grumble a bit about the industry and talk cultivation, appreciation and preservation!

    Just an aside: I have been scouring the internet and listing nurseries which sell older Austins, both in and out of patent. I think someone on another thread was looking for The Pilgrim, and I wanted to mention that Northland Rosarium carries it.

    Thoughts on own root and grafted Austins:

    A very long time ago, when I first started posting, I mentioned that every Austin variety I've tried, own root or grafted, has eventually grown into its own. I haven't tried them all, by any stretch, but I have grown quite a few, and I've tried at least one from every breeding line Austin named in earlier books, and for every grafted I've grown, I've also grown an own root version. Some own root DA roses do take their sweet long time, trying my patience to no end, but all have eventually taken off in my garden(s).

    An own root The Prince, for example, requires a number of years to become a nice, little shrub, but he gets there. As Diane noted, Abe jumps out of the gate! Of course, climate is a huge factor, and if it weren't for fungal diseases and soggy springtimes, this climate would rank as one of the best for roses. The frozen north and the desert regions probably wipe out delicate own root cultivars in record time!

    As time passes and more Austins are left behind, stats on own root success rates are sure to become central to conversations as we cut and share our out-of-patent favorites. I foresee the job of propagation inevitably passing to rebellious nurseries with all the right equipment and independent gardeners in ideal climates. I feel strongly about learning to graft in order to preserve cherished Austins and OGRs. My days are rather packed at the moment, but grafting is on my short list. At this time, I'm thrilled to share cuttings with those more skilled in propagation while I burrito and root what I can in my basement. I so appreciate those determined forum members who are actively propagating!

    Thank you all for your comments and photos! Please continue to chime in and attach images on this thread as experiences arise and information surfaces.

    Carol


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  • frances_in_nj
    6 years ago

    So many of the older Austins are beautiful, and really good roses! One of my favorites is The Herbalist - it just doesn't quit in my garden

    I am very frustrated by not being able to find sources for some of the older Austins. Particularly with the threat of rrd! For example, another one I love is Mistress Quickly - a really lovely rose, a good performer, very different from other Austins - and as far as I can tell, not available anywhere in the US! I have tried to take cuttings, with no success, and I just worry I'm going to lose her to rrd one of these days. It seems so unfair for DA Roses to not let other growers offer their old varieties! I comfort myself with the thought that I have 2 Herbalists, 2 John Clares, 2 Cordelias, and 2 Wise Portias (all discontinued favorites of mine) but I'm so sorry that DA is treating a lot of his older roses as disposable, even though for a lot of us they are beautiful and good garden roses! I guess the company really is just looking for the most profit possible, which is such a shame. New isn't always better! But I guess just because DA bred some beautiful roses doesn't, sadly, necessarily mean that they appreciate them!

    portlandmysteryrose thanked frances_in_nj
  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
    6 years ago

    Heirloom Roses also sells The Pilgrim own root as a 1 gallon. Their prices have gone up a lot and they only ship free is you order $50 of roses or other merchandise. Sometimes they have sales. Overall high priced but a choice if you need something that isn't sold elsewhere. They used to carry Belle Story but did away with that one. They do have some other older Austins left like The Ingenious Mr Fairchild etc.

    I got Strawberry Hill from them past year because it was sold out everywhere else at the time and was surprised by the size of the plant. Closer to something I would get from A Reverence for roses than the old Heirloom tiny bands.

    ~Sjn

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  • slumgullion in southern OR
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Very interesting thread!! To each his own, and I’m sorry to hear you DA lovers are having problems finding the old varieties you love.

    DA's aren't my favorite and I've never been a fan of their business practices. But I hope those of you who truly love these old DA varieties find a way to keep them in circulation. In a few decades I’ll probably be hankering after them myself!!!

    portlandmysteryrose thanked slumgullion in southern OR
  • nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
    6 years ago

    Well, I had a happy surprise tonight--I casually perused the David Austin website (US), and lo and behold, Evelyn was listed and not out of stock! I don't know how long this will last, but I'm trying to think of a spot for just one more Evelyn, a safe place (sort of) from deer, and not with a lot of tree competition, so I can enjoy her blooming the way she was meant to bloom. I also noticed Tradescant was listed, but out of stock. Maybe Austin has a waiting list for this rose, Carol. Chianti is still listed but out of stock. This was Austin's first red rose. The Prince was not listed at all, unless I somehow missed him. Abe Darby is listed and available. They will ship roses at the proper time for your climate up until May. Diane

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  • User
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I'm not defending Austin's just because they're English, but a few things I have found out recently make me feel a little less hostile to their practices. Apparently each year they make a £1 million investment to produce just 3 roses for Chelsea Flower show, from about 65,000 seedlings [used to be 250,000 a year but they've managed to reduce that figure]. All those deemed not good enough go on the bonfire. It must take a hard nosed business attitude to throw all those seedlings away like that, I mean those that reach the final 10 even, just to leave 3.

    I also understand that in one year recently, don't know which one, but they had to write off the entire million pound investment as none of the roses were deemed worthy of release after trialling, and they had to bring forward roses destined for a later year, so they would have something for Chelsea.

    They do police the system internationally to ensure other vendors are complying with their demands, but perhaps when I look at the figures I can understand it better. I also have to accept their seeming lack of sentimentality but I don't think this is unique. Cants have no interest in their much raved about in warm climates 'Mrs B R Cant', as it's just a rose of yesteryear the like of which no one here would produce any more and is considered archaic. I wrote to them about it.

    Mind you, I'm still peeved I can't get 'Josephine Hooker' and Austin won't help me on that. Only a limited number were released and I didn't get one in time. Gone forever unless you were one of the lucky ones.

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  • slumgullion in southern OR
    6 years ago

    Belle Story sure is beautiful!

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  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    6 years ago

    Troilus is a revelation, so beautiful and almost never mentioned. St. Cecilia is also gorgeous.

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  • monarda_gw
    6 years ago

    I wish someone would talk more about why Wild Edric was withdrawn. I thought it was incredibly beautiful.

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  • portlandmysteryrose
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Diane, thank you so much for the info!

    Monarda, agreed. What's up with Wild Edric? DA doesn't offer anything else remotely like it. A bias against Rugosas?

    Suebelle, gorgeous photos!

    Marlorena, thank you for sharing some of the business details that explain how and why DA might make certain choices! I still see a deficit in the balance, a failing where the company might become all the richer in a broader sense while honoring the life's work of a founder as well as the passion of the larger community to which it belongs, but it is important to walk in each other's shoes to capture a broader perspective in our imaginations. Running a company like DA is a mind boggling feat! Still, I feel we all lose a piece of what is central when we allow our histories to slip away. We become untethered. We forget that the communities we serve are a significant piece of what makes our own lives fulfilling. The worldwide community of gardeners, novice dabblers to experienced collectors, provides the soil where DA's roses grow to their full potential. Without the larger purposes of enriching the lives other people and raising our own personal satisfaction, why spend the hours and the energy of our limited days pursuing any project? I've grown more overtly philosophical with age, but really, it does feel like revisiting the big picture now and then can work miracles toward keeping us balanced in an unbalanced world. And, truthfully, I care about rose breeders and their well being, and I heartily wish them to know how much their past and present work matters. To all of us. I can't seem to stay off my soapbox, yes? Carol

  • User
    6 years ago

    I wish I could write with your passion Carol, it's fun when you're on that soapbox, but yes, I know where you're coming from on this. No problem. It's good to debate it from time to time. Few people over here would be aware of how they operate internationally. I only found out when I started reading these forums. I was quite shocked initially I have to say, as I had no idea what went on.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • frances_in_nj
    6 years ago

    Thanks for your thoughts Carol! You are right, and so is Marlorena, to point out the needs of the growers, and I will try to be aware and respectful of that when I start feeling annoyed at the loss of some of these roses (agreed about Wild Edrich - I had it briefly but couldn't make it happy and it died. Still I thought it was gorgeous, and would love to try it again, particularly when I see Ingrid's great pictures). Its also true what Carol says, though, the importance of trying to enrich the lives of others to whatever small degree we can, and keeping this always in sight even when we have to deal with practical considerations too - by sharing our gardens, or the works that we create (be it roses or whatever, ) by sharing our time in volunteering, etc etc etc.

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  • User
    6 years ago

    Incidentally Carol, you are not alone in this. I am reminded that rosarian Charles Quest-Ritson wrote about it in one of the Heritage Roses Groups publications a couple of years ago, listing a number of Austin's that are now longer available, going back to the 1970's, roses like 'Canterbury'..'Dame Prudence'..'Moth'.. and many others, and laments that they have not been kept for posterity sake, as he makes the point that in the distant future, if anyone wants to recreate a garden from the 1970's, none of these roses will be available, and he does think they should all have been kept for conservation sake, also mentioning other breeders, not only Austin, whose roses have long since disappeared.

    So there you go, you do have a famous name in agreement who has put it out there.

    I would love to get hold of 'Belle Story', and hoped they might keep these roses in a field somewhere preserved, to take cuttings and propagate as and when a customer might want one. I would pay a premium for that, but no such option exists. That's a shame, it really is, but what can you do?

    portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • nikthegreek
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Marlorena, stopping propagating and marketing older roses is one thing, which all breeders (have to) do. Actively forbidding propagation and sale of older roses is quite another.. I still find it unethical no matter how much a breeder invests yearly in breeding and marketing new and 'improved' varieties, many of them not worthy of introduction in the first place. 'Easy come easy go' seems to be the DA motto and I don't like it.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked nikthegreek
  • User
    6 years ago

    Oh sure Nik, I get what you're saying, I just think that if I put on a business head and not a sentimental or more charitable one, then I'd probably do the same - and try to keep quiet about it. As I said, we wouldn't be aware of this here too much. I don't think so. We just buy their roses.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    6 years ago

    About Wild Edric, I vaguely remember about them saying it not being suitable for most climates, and I agree it's not for everyone. It's a totally spiny beast and gets rust in the spring. Sometimes the flowers are gorgeous and other times not. So far it hasn't been a prolific bloomer and the flowers don't do well in the sun. It might do better in cooler climates than mine, unless it turns into a rust bucket. I'm going to give one plant to Lisa, and practically everything seems to thrive in her garden.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Ingrid, I think that trying Austins with Rugosa ancestry in your conditions would be rough. Rugosas prefer acidic soil, cold in Winter, are prone to rust where that's an issue (I've never seen it here on the east coast), and will drop leaves whenever anything other than water is sprayed on them. Those traits filtering down into offspring make for things that wouldn't like it in your garden.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

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  • witchygirrl6bwv
    6 years ago

    I think as soon as Abe Darby gets big enough, I'll be using my air propagators. I can't imagine this rose getting to be rare to have. I wanted Tradescant back when Chamblees had it, but I never got around to getting it. It wouldn't have survived at my old place anyway, so I can't be too sad about it. I'd still like to have it though. I worry like what's going to happen when they aren't available anywhere, and they slowly get wiped out by RRD, or something else? Thank goodness for places like ARE, that keep old, but good roses for people to enjoy. I don't mind (and do) buying new roses, along with old ones, but if I have to choose, I'd prefer to save old ones from disappearing.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked witchygirrl6bwv
  • portlandmysteryrose
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    As always, thank you all for your thoughts and insights! Marlorena, thank you for enjoying my soapbox! :-)

    Wild Edric would probably be a gorgeous thing in the PNW! Sigh. Maybe it will sucker and when it's out of patent, maybe those suckers will end up in the pass along circles.

    Carol

  • chris209 (LI, NY Z7a)
    6 years ago

    This is an enjoyable conversation, as always, and I've enjoyed the pictures of all these less common roses. It falls on the gardeners to keep these plants going, as is the case for so many worthwhile roses.

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around the RMV issue though. If we're going to say that all grafted roses from DA in the US are virused, then maybe it's a blessing when DA stops production on a variety. I'm not very informed when it comes to grafting and mass production of grafted roses, so have a few questions. If all roses have RMV from DA in the US, then we're assuming all the rootstock has been propogated from one original virused ancestor? Or that the roses are infected during the grafting process? Also, if this is the case, then where are the independent nurseries getting their virus free mother plants from? Wouldn't it stand to reason that their mother plants originally came from DA, and that they are virused and that all the own-root progeny are also virused? I really don't want to derail the conversation into an RMV conversation, but this concept has been bothering me and it seems relevant.

    -Chris

    portlandmysteryrose thanked chris209 (LI, NY Z7a)
  • portlandmysteryrose
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Great questions, Chris! I could posit a theory about how the virus piece has played out, but it would just be a theory. I defer to the experts for the real story. Experts, any comments? Carol

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    6 years ago

    Christopher, I wouldn't have tried Wild Edric except that someone posted that it did well in her hot, dry climate and I saw a picture of it that made me fall in love. If I can have even a few of those lovely, fragrant flowers I'll be happy. If it doesn't make it in the long run, so be it.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
  • nikthegreek
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Chris,

    I understand that what may have been happening is that motherplants are (or were) being budded on (potentially) infected (Dr. Huey) rootstock. If that is the case the mother plant gets infected. When it does, all plants created from it, whether budded or ownroot, are potentially infected. My educated guess is that what DA US gets is (probably) unvirused budding material from the UK, not whole plants. I would be surprised if they receive whole plants from the UK.

    So, if the above is true, then what is to blame is the rootstock. Unless they use indexed rootstock (both for their mother plants and for their budded roses) then they will never be able to make sure they don't sell RMV free plants.

    No idea what might be happening in 'independent' nurseries.

    In Europe, one of the reasons most rootstock used now is grown from seed has to do with virus avoidance. Of course you can't grow Dr. Huey from seed but you can grow canina... Some varieties are quite stable for that.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked nikthegreek
  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    6 years ago

    What Nik posted has been my understanding of the situation as well. So basically all DA's in the UK are budded onto seedling rootstock, and (probably) aren't infected with RMV. Then budwood is sent to the US, which is budded onto (probably) RMV-infected 'Dr. Huey'. Thereafter, all the DA's in the US are infected, since -- as far as I know -- new DA's debut in the US at DA's US seller. Even those offered own-root by DA US will have been propagated from cuttings taken from budded (and thus probably infected) roses grown out in the field.

    Of course, I don't have evidence of this for every step of the way, but the DA's I bought from the DA US were on 'Dr. Huey', and they seem to be the first place in the US selling each year's new introductions.

    :-/

    ~Christopher

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  • chris209 (LI, NY Z7a)
    6 years ago

    Thanks for the explanation, but what does all this mean for the own root DA plants being sold throughout the US at smaller nurseries. Wouldn't their original plants have come through DA in TEXAS and therefore also be virused?

    -Chris

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  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    My guess is that unless the roses were imported directly from DA UK, then they'd be the same as those offered by DA US, with regards to RMV status. Creating an own-root plant from material derived from budded plants does not in and of itself change the RMV status of said plant. So if DA US was the only receiver of 'Munstead Wood' from DA UK, then what they did with it will affect all future 'Munstead Wood' available elsewhere in the US -- unless someone re-imported it. Otherwise, any other nursery carrying 'Munstead Wood' got their original material from DA US.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

    portlandmysteryrose thanked AquaEyes 7a NJ
  • cathz6
    6 years ago

    Or a nursery could virus index a DA rose, treat it to clear the virus and sell it as virus free, an expensive process as I understand.

    Cath

    portlandmysteryrose thanked cathz6
  • Claire8WA
    6 years ago

    There are some Austin’s in the virus free program at UCDavis, they provide propagating material to nurseries, perhaps if you are looking for a particular variety, and it is in their collection, they could tell you what nurseries have gotten virus propagating material of that rose from them...perhaps! The entire list of roses is on their website.

    cheers

    claire

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  • john_ca
    6 years ago

    To those who are looking for some of the early Austin treasures that are disappearing from commerce: hope is on the way!

    Susan Lyell of Nashville, TN, has started a new enterprise called 'Restoration Roses' (www.restorationroses.com). She wants to provide a source of some of these forgotten/'superceded' Austin roses as well as hard to find OGR's. She came to CA this past summer and collected rose cuttings from a number of gardens, including the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, which has a good collection of Austin roses, including some of these earlier ones. I sent Susan a parcel with 6 or more good cuttings of 25 of these earlier Austin roses, including many mentioned in this thread. She had hoped that she would have inventory to sell this year, but did not want to sell plants that she considered to be too small. Also, she will be needing to establish some larger 'mother plants' from which she can take a large number of cuttings.

    John

    portlandmysteryrose thanked john_ca
  • Claire8WA
    6 years ago

    Lovely news John!

    i will support her endeavors in any way I can...good for her, and good for you helping her with all those cuttings!

    best

    Claire

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  • witchygirrl6bwv
    6 years ago

    Thank you for the excellent news John!

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  • john_ca
    6 years ago

    You are both most welcome. I believe very strongly in the cause, to preserve the early Austin rose germplasm.

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  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    That is great news! I am so excited! I hope they have Belle Story :)

    I just potted up 3 Fire Opal roses that are not old roses or DAs but I got them for 3.50 ea on clearance because they just sorta resemble Belle Story Lol!! Yes, I'm obsessed with Belle Story.

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  • Lisa Adams
    6 years ago

    Thanks John. I wrote to Susan over the weekend asking what she planned to carry. I received a nice friendly reply yesterday. She’s in the process of compiling her list of roses, and hopes to have the list ready around New Years. I asked about shipping to California, and she said she needs to check into that. She’s a licensed nursery, and she’s growing all organic. She said she needs to check what’s required to ship into California. I’m REALLY hoping she's able to find a way. I would be so disappointed if she couldn’t ship to California. Either way, I’m really glad she’s starting up her business. I hope she gets lots of support and is very successful in her endeavor. Lisa

    portlandmysteryrose thanked Lisa Adams
  • portlandmysteryrose
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    That is great news about Susan's nursery and stock, John! Susan and I had exchanged emails and rose lists quite awhile back, but I hadn't checked lately. It sounds like she'll be propagating a wonderful collection of OGRs and newer roses. I hope she carries Kim Rupert's and Paul Barden's! I've let a few of those slip through my hands without replacement. Carol

  • john_ca
    6 years ago

    Lisa, she may have to have her plants inspected by a government official like Chamblee's Roses and other nurseries are doing. This may add a little more expense to the shipping cost, but I think that we can all agree that the additional cost would be worthwhile to prevent the spread of RRD and other devastating rose diseases.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked john_ca
  • Rose Paris
    last year
    last modified: last year

    The Prince (below) has to be the most amazing rose I have ever grown: crimson in warmer weather, almost a blackish purple red in cooler weather and smells amazing. For me, it's a good bloomer compared to other DA roses. I also love Munstead Wood (gorgeous fragrance and color) and also more vigorous than most, and a great bloomer, but now cancelled in Europe, and Lady Emma Hamilton, one of the oldest roses in my garden, at 15 years, strong, beautiful, almost continuously blooming from May-October, and so fragrant, but also now no longer being produced. And Jude the Obscure smells like the most expensive perfume I have ever sniffed. It's a shame they have all been discontinued in Europe. The newish varieties I have tried don't hold a candle or maybe have just not stumbled on the right tones, but some were really one-flush wonders. Some of the recent varieties developed by Dominique Massad look promising as they would seem to combine unique and vibrant colors with strong fragrance so that is what I am going to try next. For Europeans: I have noticed some older.harder to find DA varieties on the site rose.it. I have never ordered from them so cannot give a review or an opinion, and also at www.filroses.com.


  • Diane Brakefield
    last year

    Beautiful rose, Paris. I also grow The Prince, and when he is good he is very, very good. But....in our hot weather, he can be very bad. Munstead can take the heat here. I'll be sending some The Prince cuttings to straw this late spring for her to grow. I hope she's successful. Diane

  • judijunebugarizonazn8
    last year

    And I am so happy to have acquired my very own little Prince to grow in my garden! I have long admired the photos of the Prince that you post, Diane, but never thought I’d find one of my own. Well, yesterday I went to Burlington Nursery for the first time. I had emailed Burling with a list of roses I wanted and told her I wanted to stop by and pick them up in person since I would be coming through California anyway. Burling is as wonderful as all you folks have been telling me! She is the most comfortable, down to earth, generous soul, and I feel richer for having met her. I hope I get to spend more time with her someday. Anyway, she took me on a walk through her plants and here she had a little section of DA roses she had propagated,including The Prince. When she saw how excited I was she insisted on giving it to me along with a few other freebies. I am very pleased. It is a very, very tiny plant just now but I will pamper it and give it every chance to grow. Diane, let me know what luxuries The Prince demands and I will bow to his wishes.

  • Diane Brakefield
    last year

    Well, Judi, The Prince doesn't really like it hot and dry, so he will challenge you about that. The plant itself doesn't mind hot and dry, but the blooms burn and get weird in the heat. I should take photos nekst summer to illustrate that. In your climate, some shade might be in order, but he's a rose, so he'll need sun, too. All my roses get the same regimen: lots of water, a wonderful compost I buy (Nu Life Organic compost, if you can find it; it's a regional product), applied in late fall and into winter when the weather permits. I'm still applying it. In late February, every rose gets a good feeding of Plant Tone or Holly Tone, whichever I have on hand, and in mid March, the roses get a feeding of Lilly Miller Organic granular fertilizer for acid loving plants. My soil is alkaline so I give this fertilizer for that reason. I'm sure your soil is alkaline, too. I've repeated this regimen so many times on the forum, so if you've read it before, I apologize. My roses don't get a lot after the spring feedings. As I said, all the roses are equal to me and get the same diet. I hope you're successful with His Highness. My rose is a continuous bloomer, by the way, so he blooms a lot when it would be best for him to rest (heat). Diane






  • ingrid_vc zone 10 San Diego County
    last year

    Diane, I've often (and I mean often) wondered what you did to achieve those glorious and humongous blooms, and thank you for telling us. It won't help me as just reading about your regimen made me tired, much less doing it, but I'm sure others would benefit. I was just outside and saw that Sweet Frances has lost almost all her leaves and several others nearby have also suffered, so my efforts at growing roses again may not succeed. Ah well, at least I can say I tried.

  • Diane Brakefield
    last year

    Ingrid, please try garlic powder, or better oil of garlic rodent repellent on your roses, or could you hire someone to do this for you? The deer repellent, which is a little different from the rodent repellent does work pretty well. The smell does not persist to our noses. I hate to see your roses get destroyed without a little fight. Diane

  • erasmus_gw
    last year

    I agree it's a weak rose but also agree it's a great bloomer. My plants are about 3' tall, fairly well branched, blackspot prone. Growing a new plant of it own root is challenging and takes much time.






    It can also have redder tones.


  • Diane Brakefield
    last year

    The Prince is not a weak grower for me, but he is grafted on multiflora, so maybe that makes a difference. Mine is about 5 ft by 5ft. There is some color variation, especially when it is hot and dry. Diane




  • Rosefolly
    last year

    I clicked on John's link from 5 years ago to see if Restoration Roses had survived. The link is still active, but apparently they do not sell roses at this time. Instead they sell rose-based products. It is a disappointment, but I suspect the owner could not make a go of it as a nursery, but managed to make a profit this way.

    We do what we can. It has been a tough few years all around.

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
    last year

    I had just checked the link as well and I was surprised to see no roses being sold at all.

    I wonder what happened? Surely 5 yrs would be plenty of time to get a nursery going. Maybe they changed their mind/business plan? A lot of crazy things occured with businesses during the Pandemic, so who knows lol.

  • judijunebugarizonazn8
    last year

    Thank you, Diane, for the rundown on your rose care routine. Yes, I have read it before on other threads but I think repeating it is helpful for those of us who are always wondering how we can improve our gardens. I will do my very best to pamper The Prince and help him reach his full potential and will certainly give him an afternoon shade spot, to protect him from sunburn. I actually enjoy fertilizing and mulching my gardens so it doesn’t feel like a chore to me. I guess it’s that nurturing instinct that made me enjoy being a mother so much. I like to feed living things and watch them grow and develop, whether it’s babies or roses. :)

  • Rose Paris
    3 months ago

    Something sort of amazing about "The Prince", at least in my garden, is that it has given me roses in winter, two years running, and on two different shrubs in two different exposures, one blooming on Christmas even (mine is own root). Another DA that has bloomed into winter two years running is Charles Rennie Mackintosh. A beautiful mauve rose glowing in a exposure where there is little light in December (so definitely a good one for shade). I live in a rather humid climate in Western Europe where we do have winter, but it does not often get below/or stay below freezing for long. But most of my roses are dormant now, other than Marie Pavie (not a DA, but if someone wanted to start a thread for winter bloomers, that one should be in there, as two winters in a row, it has put on a show). Another discontinued DA one that just finished blooming (in December) is my own-root Glamis Castle. The now-discontinued Emma Hamilton often blooms in November. So pretty, a shame that one is no longer available.