Red Radiance, Mrs. Herbert Stevens, Mme. Jules Bouche and Lafter have been on my wish list for years...maybe I'll get around to adding some of those in the spring. Looked up Mme Abel Chatenay and Curly Pink...both are beautiful! I need to research some of the other mentioned, too. Jeri, even when my KAV is going through one of its "foliage challenged" periods, it's still beautiful to me...here it is almost leafless in May:

Is anybody growing 'Captain Christie', purportedly an extremely early HT? I have read good things about it. In the UK it seems only the climbing version is still in commerce, I don't know about mainland Europe.

Lady Mary Fizwilliam is good in my garden...

Ophelia is a good performer too...

I forgot 'Nigrette', sold under the name 'Louis XIV'. I agree with an assessment on HMF, that 'Nigrette', though small and of twiggy growth, is actually quite tough. It's good if you want a small plant with deep red, fragrant blooms. Put it somewhere it won't get run over, and where you can see and appreciate it.

Re: Captain Christy. That's a hybrid tea I've been trying to find because it's apparently one of the hardiest HTs while also thriving well in warm climates. It looks very beautiful too. I couldn't find it in the U.S. (a non-climbing version bred by Lacharme), but I saw online that Petrovic Roses in Serbia sells it, which is fairly close to you (though I don't know if there could be any mail order issues because Serbia is not in EU):

http://www.petrovicroses.rs/en/roses/old-roses/hp/captain-christy

'Nigrette' and the other early dark-red or crimson HTs probably do best as pot-pets. You'll have to play with finding the perfect site for them with regards to sun intensity -- too much shade and they get foliage issues, but mid-day sun will burn their blooms. I found that the best spots for mine are where they get full morning sun and midday bright shade, such as on the east-facing side of a high-branched tree. And they really "perk up" with regards to vigor if you feed them lightly and regularly. I found that used coffee grounds added lightly and regularly -- about a cup twice a month -- on top of the mulch makes a real difference. 'Nigrette' and 'Chateau de Clos Vougeot' keep clean foliage (for me, in New Jersey, USA) so long as I can still discern a thin layer of coffee grounds on top of the mulch in their pots.

You may also want to try some of the Pernetianas. I imagine that in your climate, blackspot isn't much of an issue at all. They, too, would do well as pot-pets, especially if underplanted with something having blue flowers, like annual Ageratum, or Nepeta. Their colors would probably clash with the oldies, but as Kim told me once, just group them together in one area, and their louder colors go well together.

:-)

~Christopher

How about September Morn? I think it likes warmer, drier climates. But I believe it can also be prone to mildew if that's a problem in the climate. I am so tempted to pot pet it...but shouldn't.

I second (third?) a vote for Nigrette.

Doesn't Ingrid grow Mme. Abel Chatenay? I recall some exquisite photos on a few forum threads....

Carol

I love the pale pink colors and wine stamens of Dainty Bess. Her biggest drawback is a kind of gawky growth habit. My Bess is about 6 feet tall and 3-4 feet wide. Diane

Do all of you spray your HTs.? I would love one with a strong old rose fragrance (my gmother used to grow them) but I don't spray anything...any suggestions for the south east?

Does anybody grow 'White Wings'? I had that years ago and liked it, but I don't know how good a grower it is. I would try it again if I could find it.

Oh, and not old-old, but I would love to get my hands on 'Oklahoma' and give it a go here.

I don't spray, and Portland does suffer from blackspot. My HTs have to be relatively healthy and tough. Mr. Lincoln has been good for me. He has a strong old rose/Damask scent! Ditto Barcelona (Frances Dubreuil). Black Magic is healthy but low scent.. My neighbor grows Peace and La France no spray. Peace is low moderate scent and La France is very, very scented! Carol

I am a no spray garden, I am just too lazy and is not good for the wildlife that I like to see in my yard. If a rose doesn’t stay clean she meets the shovel.

Cl Madame Caroline Testout.

Jackie

Madame Abel Chatenay is a good grower and bloomer. Pretty healthy. I have the Brownells Curly Pink and Pink Princess. Pink Princess seems stronger than Curly Pink. Both rebloom well. Curly P started out strong here, got planted in a dry spot, declined, and is on the mend in a pot so I can't say for sure it lacks anything.

The Radiance roses didn't do well here. Maybe virused. I think Gruss an Coburg is an old ht and it is supremely fragrant and a great bloomer.

Mme. Abel

Curly Pink

Pink Princess

Gruss an Coburg

Beautiful, Erasmus! Madame Abel is breathtaking. Is there a spot in your garden, Nik? Carol

Carol, there's always a spot in my garden and a hole in my pocket..

Thought I'd post some pics of my "oldies". Be sure to click to see the full enlarged pic.

Awakening:

Cl. Mme. Caroline Testout:

Be sure to click on each phot to see the full image.

Cl. Clotilde Soupert:

Barcelona:

Clothilde Soupert has always charmed me -- but in my area, it never seems to open, so I have avoided it.

Jerijen, I was worried about balling in our high humidity, heavy rain environment, but I took the advice of many posts and planted her so that her roots are in the rain, but her blooms are under the eaves. So far, so good! She's bloomed many times since I recently planted her out and her foliage is clean in my BS prone garden where almost everything gets it. I lucked out because she was an "accidental" purchase, but has become a favourite.

Another vote for 'Cl. Mme. Caroline Testout'. She's a real toughie.

Mme Caroline has been a bit of a disappointment so far here..first couple of years, her blooms were only semi double- but they were a lovely colour opened nicely, an shes a tough bush (albeit a bit sticklike as she started as a one cane wonder). then on the third year, the buds had plumped up, and you could just tell they were going to be the lovely big fluffy things theyre supposed to be...until it balled :( Just gone the 4th spring and shes balled again..she does have another cane now though :)

I, too, love the early hybrid teas that were sort of transitional and retain characteristics of old garden roses. Lots of good ones are already listed.

Madame Leon Pain is an offspring of Madame Caroline Testout with a bit lighter pink that tends toward apricot.

Ophelia is the grandmother of many sports. I grow Madame Butterfly and find its yellow and pink coloring with dark stamens very pleasant in addition to its general health. It has a similar quality to its single relative, Dainty Bess, once opened up: the purplish stamens contrast with light petals. In the Ophelia family, I think that Lady Sylvia, Rapture, Golden Ophelia, and Roselandia are also still floating around here and there.

Grace Darling is an early pink hybrid tea with a very tea-style bloom and color.

Etoile de France (Pernet-Ducher, 1904) and Etoile de Hollande (1919, Verschuren & Sons) are both lovely old red roses.

Christopher Stone (red) and Feu Pernet-Ducher (yellow tinged with pink) are a couple of hybrid teas from the 1930s with brighter, more modern colors but a slight affinity with the teas.

Mrs. Aaron Ward is a yellow Pernetiana with an orange pink tone. Apricot/peach-tinged President Herbert Hoover, pink blend Shot Silk, and yellow blend Talisman are three Pernetianas that similarly seem both old and modern to me.

Mrs. Oakley Fisher (Cant) is another charming single hybrid tea in the vein of Dainty Bess. Irish Elegance and Irish Fireflame (Dickson) are also nice little single roses with an old-fashioned flair.

Justin

I have had Gruss an Aachen in 3 different gardens. It can mildew occasionally, but is definitely worthwhile. I have Firefighter, Oklahoma and Papa Meilland in pots on the village road. They have been so rewarding and are all highly scented.

I am expecting a parcel this month from Peter Beales, with La France and The Doctor in it. The Doctor was the first rose I ever bought. I am looking forward to seeing it again 53 years later.

Daisy

I have Mme Abel Chataney and she has been a good rose in a bad spot. I'm giving her better care now that I realize what a trooper she is.

I also have La France sport Duchess of Albany which is a little darker than La France. It's a constant bloomer and very healthy.

Those are the only two old HT's that are still in my garden. I've tried a few others that didn't make it. I really like the old HT's and wish they'd done better for me but it was probably my fault, not the rose.

I would add to Jeri's excellent list 'September Morn' and 'Dame Edith Helen' (below).

CL Mme Caroline Testout - I don't think she would ball in Nik's hot dry climate. She does not ball at all in ours, which is a bit more humid than Nik's, I believe.

We have been having close to 100% humidity the last few days, from dusk to dawn... Morning dew looks like it has been raining through the night.. It is common both in spring and in fall. Roses that ball easily, ball over here during those times.. The Cochets... not good in my garden... unless I cut a half open bud in the afternoon and bring it in, I can't see a good bloom.. Tipsy, I didn't see an open bud until well into summer. Having said that, SdlM very rarely balls here, neither does GdD.

'Snowbird' was very slow to get going here but has become an outstanding performer. And, fragrant--at least to this nose. 'Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria' was also a winner--mine unfortunately got crown gall.

Nik - we also have humid (but cool) weather in the Spring and Fall, but MCT has never ever balled in my garden, not once, and I have had it for 15+ years.

Jackie

Jackie, do you have a Cochet? In my garden there's no rose that balls as much.. It is my benchmark so to speak.. If you have one and it doesn't ball then you have better conditions.

same here nik...no decent blooms on Tipsy til summer, but Sdlm (when I had her) never balled either..weird ! However Autumn is usually quite dry, so no balling issues then with anything.

I have Niles Cochet, and yes, it does ball in the Spring. It is the only rose I have which balls (I got rid of another one which did - can't remember who at the moment). The rest of the year NC is fine. So, since it does ball in the Spring, but Mme Caroline Testout does not, I thought that MCT might work for you.

Jackie

I love those early HTs. From a very inexperienced grower, in a climate very different from yours -- cool, damp, in a tiny garden space that gets a lot of shade much of the time but then also at certain times of year, the strong late-afternoon sun. Most of my roses are in containers. I seem to do well with the hybrid musks, polyanthas, some hybrid perpetuals, and apparently some teas (my young Duchesse de Brabant is thriving and blooming like mad). For what it's worth, here are top-of-my head thoughts:

Mrs. Herbert Stevens and Gruss an Coburg are two that always knock me out when I visit them. You already have Mrs. HS; I have tried to propagate her from cuttings several times with no luck thus far. But I think she is so graceful and lovely, I will keep trying . . . .

Gruss an Coburg really speaks to me! Lovely--and the fragrance is intense and delicious. I have a 1-year-old baby that I started from a cutting and another, I believe, on the way. No blooms yet on the baby, but the plant looks strong. I have high hopes for this beautiful rose.

I received "bands" of "Maggie" and Rhodologue Jules Gavereaux in August from ARVR. They are in 3-gallon pots and have already produced some a few spectacular blooms and are growing well and need to be moved up already. Maggie: fragrance, color, and form are superb! Jules's blooms are just lovely--and they have held remarkably well both on the plant and after cutting.

Let us know what you choose!

Here are Maggie and Jules:

"Maggie"

Tipsy is a bad baller BUT her saving grace is that she loves blooming under the heat all summer long.. Not true with my Maman Cochet which tends to bloom only when she's bound to ball.. She is still young so I'll leave her alone for another year. If she starts blooming during the summer or during the drier chilly winter periods she will be left in. Otherwise she's out because she's already taking much valuable space for a bunch of canes, leaves and ugly balled rotting blooms..

Any opinions on Pres. Herbert Hoover, Texas Centennial and Talisman? Are they worth growing?

I've seen Cl. Talisman and was not terribly impressed.

Souvenir du President Carnot is a wonderful rose although in my conditions when the drought began it began to deteriorate. I would love to have another one.

What is the backround rose above, Ingrid, please?

In Attica you ought to be able to grow the Pernetianas. 'Autumn', IMHO is the one to start with, short growth, rapid rebloom and ever changing color. The blooms are fantastic at almost every stage. I had it in CA and I don't remember any disease issues, not even mildew. I quite liked 'Yellow Talisman' which was a very nice color of yellow, but I only grew it for about a year.

mcnastarana, thanks for the suggestion. In my yard what can mildew will mildew, often badly. Mildew coincides with the main flushes in spring and fall, that's why I see it as a major problem. I used to spray for it but now I don't really bother unless it gets too bad, which doesn't happen every year.

Ingrid, do you still have the Roses above? I too would love to know what the background Rose is in your above pictures.

Great pictures on this thread!

For those who inquired, the rose in the background of the picture above is a miniature, Sweet Nothings, a Keith Zary cross of La Marne and an unnamed seedling. I no longer have it.

Thank You Ingrid. I hope I didn't make you too sad reminding you oh, but it was such a beautiful picture.

Tipsy Imperial Concubine- stunning
Crimson Glory - incredible fragrance

Sweet Nothings is highly praised by members of Helpmefind. That site lists it as being available from Angel Gardens. The name is adorable.

I know, monarda. I'd love to hear more from anyone that grows it and if it might be hardy in my zone and conditions. Ingrid, did you ever meet Keith Zary?

No, unfortunately not. I got the information about Sweet Nothings from helpmefind. Whatever would we do without that peerless source?

I want to add, for those of you growing roses in hot and rather dry areas, La France is a wonderful rose. My first specimen developed canker but I now have another one growing in almost the same spot, and hope to see some of those beautiful, fragrant blooms again next spring.

The person who comments on Helpmefind in French as Donald writes the most vividly poetic and seductive descriptions. His assessment certainly carries weight with me.

La France is gorgeous.

How did I miss that LaFrance has a sport Duchess of Albany?

Alas, she does not seem to be available any longer. :((