Thanks Nan! I don't even know what Heavenly United We Stand looks like. I guess I'll have to take a look. Gossard did well to win the Stout and have a runner up too! So many of us have White Eyes Pink Dragon and love that one. And Entwined in the Vine is such a beauty.

Debra

I looked up Heavenly United We Stand and two things struck me. One is that it is a UF. They are so in right now. The other is that in the posted description it says it is "sunfast". FINALLY, some hybridizers are starting to take notice. I don't have any Gossards, but bully for them...........Maryl

OK, I'm going to say it because I'm so new at this: with the current trend in ever fancier edges, patterns, etc., why was HUWS chosen over, say, Thelma Douglas? Or my favorite out of the bunch: White Eyes Pink Dragon? Not saying I don't like it; after all, I recently made the comment to Nancy6b about how did it make me look too bourgeois that I was enthralled with photos of Crimson Pirate, and was looking forward to trying some crosses between it and newer varieties to see if I couldn't get those longer petals and color, but with edges and/or patterns.

So, those of you who are veterans, what's the story here?

Alex

Seems like all the same people win these awards all the time . It would be nice if they were to give the awards to others who are hybridizing too. Let's face it Gossard is one of the largest hybridizers out there right now who is now also working with Grace as in Grace/Gossard cultivars and Kinnebrew/Gossard cultivars ......but what about the little guy ? the back yard hybridizer who working with limited funds/plants can also put out a phenomenal plant ....they never get any recognition.

Alex, I guess it just boils down to the fact that unusual formed daylilies are very popular right now. Also, the ufs tend to be taller than than the bagels, bud counts are often higher and the flowers are often larger so they make a great splash in the garden. We don't grow Heavenly United We Stand (been thinking about getting it), but its stats are quite impressive--9 inch flower, 51 inch scape, 6-7 way branching, 28--38 buds. It is also a bud builder and sunfast, according to the hybridizer.

The last time a heavily ruffled daylily won the Stout was 2010 with J. T. Davis. A toothy one has never won (Bass Gibson was a runner-up a couple of years ago.)

The award is supposed to focus on an all-around good variety that grows in many zones. The flower is only part of that equation.

We don't grow either HUWS or White Eyes Pink Dragon, so I don't know their individual merits. I have heard they are both great. What I do know is that the ufs we do grow from Jamie Gossard are some of the tallest, most vigorous varieties in our garden--Heavenly Tiger Tails, Heavenly Orange Blaze, Heavenly Christmas Cactus, etc. It doesn't surprise me that Jamie won the award.

Don't ever think that a particular daylily is too old or ordinary to work with. Your taste in daylilies is a good and valid as anyone else's. You must do what fulfills you. For example, Bob loves fulvas. Many people dismiss them as ditch lilies or outhouse lilies and won't have them in the garden. We love them. Bob has collected several varieties of fulvas and has been hybridizing with them. He is after the trait of toughness and hardiness. He has bred them with fancy-faced varieties in hopes of getting the fancy look with the hardiness of fulva.

Some people think that is a waste of time, but he finds it interesting. You would also be amazed at the number of people who share his love of fulva. So do your own thing. Create the daylilies that make you happy. Use whatever varieties that appeal to you no matter how plain (plain is beautiful too) or old they are.

Nancy

Nancy , I agree with you , to each his own and what is important is to do the crosses you think important . A person may just achieve what seems impossible or create something completely new . Also I think your hubby is right in wanting to use Fulvas in his hybridizing although not easy to do . There is a canadian hybridizer Gil Stelter who has had quite a bit of luck doing this . I would assume you are familiar with his website . gryphongardens.ca/ ?

Signet, we are familiar with Gil Stelter. In fact, Bob bought several of his fulva varieties from Gil. We changed our plans to attend the Can Am last spring when we found out that Gil was going to speak there.

We have been using the fulva varieties 'Switzerland', 'Yunnan', 'Hankow', and 'Korean' to cross with tetraploids. The number of seeds we get is rather limited. Many seeds look good when you harvest them, but either are hollow shells or go bad in storage. Still we get a fair few seedlings to plant. It has been an interesting thing to see what you get in the first generation. Most are orange but the petals are broader than fulva's. We did get a dark red one (other parent was Mitch Lynd) and one with a wire gold edge.

Nancy

Signet - thanks for posting that link to Gryphon's gardens - interesting reading. I need to look up Stelter's hybridizing article that he mentions from the Daylily Journal about hybridizing with the fulvas.

Nancy - tell Bob for me, if you please, that he's my hero. :) I would very much enjoy seeing some of the fulva-cross seedlings. Would you post a pic of the one with the wire gold edge maybe?

Wishing I could start my seeds right now.

Alex

Alex, are you on Facebook? I started a group called, Friends of Fulva and I posted some of the pictures there. Unfortunately, I put my phone in the washing machine and lost all the pictures from this year. Bob

Bob, I am, though less often than I used to be. I will go look for Friends of Fulva! BTW, so sorry to hear about the phone. Oops.

Alex

Alex, here are a couple of pictures. Many daylilies have a wire edge, but it's not easy to photograph.

Fulva 'Korean' X Transylvanian Tango

Fulva 'Korean' X Mitch Lynd

Nancy

Oh, wow - I love the one x Mitch Lynd! And look at that eye. This is the direction I want to go, I think. Not necessarily with species crosses, but the larger, longer petal look. And add to it, patterns and edges, eyes and watermarks. Oh yeah.

Alex

Wonderfully branched and budded, Heavenly United We Stand certainly deserves recognition. Too often, hybridizers introduce pretty faces with second-rate plant habit. I have read that Gossard considers HUWS one of his finest introductions. (Of course, we are used to hearing that in catalog blurbs, but I think he was speaking sincerely.)

Yes it is a lovely dayliiy but looks way too much like so many other spidery/uf blooms that Gossard has produced before and after it . I did a brief scan and Heavenly United We Stand is only one of at least 27 red with yellow throat daylilies that he has intro'd since 2000/01 .

I am not saying he isnt making wonderful blooms (I have quite a number of his intro's) but a tall red UF/Spider with good bud counts is pretty common There are so many others of his that are phenomenal that probably deserve an award .........but I still think there needs to be an award for the backyard hybridizer ......who doesnt have the money/ or room to plant hundreds upon hundreds of seeds but still can produce a phenomenal bloom. .

If the backyard hybridizer does produce something notable, (s)he has a very difficult time marketing it. I often wonder about new intros of more minor hybridizers. One is reluctant to shell out big bucks for something that the hybridizer thinks is super, but may really not be that great. And all the pictures, of course, look super.

I think that it is not just bud count, but the spacing of blooms, that is admired with HUWS. Also, the color is particularly richly saturated, and it blooms a long time.

Signet - well, I think your "just a red" is absolutely Gorgeous - and I can hardly wait for next season so I can get back in the garden and try for some heartstoppers of my own!!!

Alex

Thanks for the compliment on my "just a red daylily" . I like it too that is why it is staying but it is not special or deserving of an award . It is just a red daylily with a yellow throat ........and as I said there are sooooooo many of them out there (can you say hundreds? ...at least) I just cant see giving one a Stout Silver Medal award when there are so many other spectacular daylilies floating around .