I don’t have experience with most of your choices, but I just want to say that I think the shape of the bed combined with your picket fence is wonderful! I can’t wait to see how it turns out. Autumn Damask is one that I was going to plant, but decided against it in the end. I still may at some point.

Here’s a photo of Peggy in my yard. New, just planted from tiny little band a little less than a year ago. Extremely easy to train, and will look great on your fence... but WOW SHE GROWS!!!!!! This is just one little band, grown over about a year. The fence I have mine on is over 6 ft...

I really like all of your choices and will anticipate seeing your photos, no matter when you end up putting them. Also, my hubby went to Michigan. GO BLUE!

Now the sucker is another story; I moved it boxed in by other competing taller plants, and it grew branches out Eastward 3 feet sideways hovering just above the ground with one tall 4 ft cane straight up. I haven't had the heart to cut it back, the leaves are so healthy, but it takes first place for weird.

You definitely have allowed enough room in the corner for Autumn Damask. If it was me though I would put Crepescule as a focal point in the corner to break up the pinks. Then again I could put ten varying shades of pink roses together and love it.

Hi, JBP. Where are you located? I ask because those roses (including AD) will grow quite differently depending on climate. Are you in TX near ARE? Carol

I wonder if PM is too large and might be better at one end so she could sprawl.

Carol, I am in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The ARE roses were mail ordered. I would like to know how AD does in my climate. I wanted this rose partly because I already have Old Blush and, from what I understand, both roses were important in the history of breeding. I think some believe Bourbons originated from a cross of the two. BTW, I've been learning a lot from your posts, Carol.

Berrypie, that's a beautiful bloom! Your suggestion to use Crepuscule as a focal point and to break the pink colors is spot on. I'm just not sure if Crepuscule and Peggy Martin would start to compete for the same fence area, or if that's even a problem. Cori Ann's photo shows that PM can be very vigorous and Vaporvac makes a good point about it too. But, now that you mention it, I do want want to break the pink colors, just to first understand the likely vigor of AD and Crepuscule in my climate.

Cori Ann, your PM is fantastic! I don't post very much but I enjoy your photos and interesting ideas about growing roses on fences and pillars. Well, speaking of Michigan, it's been a rough week and digging these beds was therapeutic. Nonetheless, forever GO BLUE!! (I'm probably contractually obligated to also say "Geaux Tigers!")

I think your spot for PM is great because it will completely cover and weave through that whole side of your fence, and probably also go around the corner to the other side of the fence. Just make sure the roses you plant nearest to PM aren’t too terribly thorny or grabby because you’re going to be back there often to train it and tie it in. ;-)

I worry about putting Crepuscule in there at all. The one at the San Jose Heritage is 12' tall, dense, and has tree trunk sized canes.

For me, and in the one or two other places I've seen it, Autumn Damask was a rangy, unattractive bush,, and I don't believe it's one of the most frequent bloomers in the rose world. However, other gardeners may have had better luck with it.

I've found that pinks of all kinds seem to blend well together, and the differences in color make for more interest. I'm not so sure, however, that Crepuscule will look good among the pinks. It's been so long since I had it, and mine was planted alone, that I can't remember how intense of a yellow/apricot it is. White Pet is quite small compared to Duchesse de Brabant, another thing to possibly keep in mind. If you want a white rose something like Boule de Neige or Snowbird might be more appropriate.

For a front garden I would not choose Reine de Violettes, which only blooms once and can get rather large and untidy, and at most would choose only one climber, whereas you now have three. I would choose shrubby roses, perhaps even some of the Austins, for a tidier look and more bloom. Souvenir de la Malmaison blooms a lot for me in my warm and dry climate. La France is a gorgeous rose that doesn't get too large and blooms a lot. Roses Unlimited has the correct one.

Souvenir de la Malmaison is the large rose on the right and for me is almost always in bloom. This area has only pink roses (although there are some yellow reblooming irises and day lilies and purple sea lavendeer) and to me it doesn't seem boring.

Ingrid is right, Autumn Damask has been a rangey unattractive bush, it took time in it's fourth year that the flowers have become really wonderful, or maybe I have just become more observant . Take my word for it, the perfume gives a head rush. There are more dynamic roses for sure that are eye popping in the first year. I have grown fond of this ancient rose despite it's flaws.

My Reine de Violettes from ARE is a repeat bloomer here. Ingrid's garden above is gorgeous.

Oh my goodness, I just realized that when I read Reine de Violettes my brain registered Veilchenblau. That's why I said it was big and ungainly. My apologies for the failure of some vital brain cells. Sheila, thank you for bringing me back to my senses with that gorgeous picture. I'm not sure I'd be too concerned about the bush shape when the flowers are that stunning.

Jill Perry, wow, I had no idea. I'll have to find a new place for Crepuscule. I think I have an idea but still need to work it out.

Ingrid, thanks also for sharing your thoughts. After reading your and other comments, I'll be making some rearrangements. I already have La France in my plans for the spring order and thank you for the tip about who has the original. I agree about the disproportion between DdeB and White Pet but this is a sentimental choice because I grew DdeB with my dog who recently passed and this is a way of still having him as my gardening buddy.

Sheila, your great photo of Reine des Violettes reaffirms how much I'm glad I ordered it.

Thank you all again. Well, I'm glad I posted these photos because your experience and good eye for roses made me rethink the entire arrangement. There is also a backyard area with a bit more shade, but also a pergola that the previous owners used as a sitting area rather than for gardening. I may get back to this thread or start a new one soon, soliciting your invaluable advice about the whole thing.

Edited to add: Ingrid, sorry I was in rush to finish a few gardening chores before it starts to rain and forgot to mention that I also have Souvenir de la Malmaison on order for spring. I was told that it stays smallish in this hot and humid climate but I'd love to have it like yours. Your garden is inspiring.

I believe High Country Roses also has the correct 'La France' and ARE has the climbing version.

WHOA! JBP is there a rose garden near you in LA where you can see how they grow there? CA is so very different than mostly everywhere else.

Actually anywhere else that is USDA 9 and hot should expect similar plant response, from hot climate adapted varieties. As long as watering and soils are adequate, there isn't an inhibiting pest problem present and so forth - the main particular feature of Californian portions of USDA 9 - relative to the eastern ones - will be the summer dryness. A dryness that will not be causing roses to grow bigger than elsewhere.

Hi again, JBP. Please pardon that I stepped away for awhile to address some comments on my Munstead post. Your garden is going to be gorgeous! I love all your historical/antique rose choices. I'm a big history fan, too. The photos of your beds are super helpful. And, just an aside, your neighborhood is charming! I peeked at your "borrowed landscape" in the background. :-)

My first thought matches Jill's. You'll be growing some big beauties in a climate where they will reach much of their potential. If I were planting Crepuscle and Peggy Martin in a front bed with a cottage-perfect but delicate picket fence, I'd purchase or make a couple of garden arches and train these climbing roses over the tops. Then, with bed space freed below, I'd underplant.

I'd also select a clematis variety to create continuity across the arches, planting one at each of the fours bases of the arches. Something in the mauve range to carry Reine des Violette's deep color to the upper garden story.

If you wished to install three arches (I like groups of three), you could include Old Blush in that portion of the design and plant three climbers with one across the side corner and two across front, alternating pink and apricot: Old Blush (side), Crepuscle (front), Peggy M. (front). These three might even reach each others structures to intermingle.

I think Duchesse d Brabant will fill your walkway spot nicely. White Pet is certainly a smaller rose as Ingrid noted, so it might become overwhelmed in time, but it also might just tuck in between two larger varieties and break up the line of shrubbery. You could try it and then swap it out if, after 5 years or so, it seems to be struggling for light and real estate. Hitting off Ingrid's observation, I might use Ducher in that spot and save WP for your front bed.

I think I'd plant Marchesa B along the front somewhere. Her habit blends nicely with Damasks and HPs, whereas DdB and WP will develop a China-influenced habit. I'd take the opportunity to choose another China or Tea of similar size for MB's spot. If you're going for a pastel garden with pinks, apricots, white and a dash of mauve-purple (your Reine des Violettes rose and some clematis if you choose to add them), I'd consider Perle d'Or or M Fran. Kruger to add a dash of apricot in MB's original spot in order to create a conversation between your walkway and front beds.

Autumn Damask can be a little rangy but can also be coaxed into a broader than tall, arching shrub with fairly good form. Some of the TX garden books by authors like Liz Druitt, William Welch, etc. contain photos of AD filling out in a fairly tidy fashion. Its personality is very OGR, so it should blend nicely with MB and RdV.

Since these varieties are not the most remontant, I would consider putting white pet and another one or two smaller, ultra remontant roses in the front beds. Maybe a polyantha? Adding a few, smaller China-influenced roses to the front/side mix will create ground level continuity with your walkway bed. Your climbers already identify with the China-influenced walkway roses.

I'd fill in the beds with lots of lavender and purple and a few pink and white perennials and annuals for continuous bloom. (Just my two cents.)

Please ignore any unsolicited advice that you find annoying or unhelpful. And please DO post photos of your installation. I am very excited about your front garden/historical rose project--from blank slate to paradise! Carol

I only have a couple of the roses you are considering, but the thing that keeps coming to my mind are photos I've seen of Peggy Martin, which I plan to get next spring. She's a big girl and could eat whatever she's next to. In these photos, the display is from one plant of PM. But, isn't she gorgeous!

White picket fences and roses just go together - the stuff fairy tales are made of. Eagerly awaiting your 'after' photos.

Photos from internet - they are not mine.

Regarding companion plant selection some evergreen shrubs will need to be included if the groupings are not to look too lightweight - herbaceous plants and deciduous shrubs have a comparatively diffuse appearance, relatively lacking in bulk or solidity.

Great point Embothrium! Carol

While some of the photos of Peggy Martin’s growth may be a little intimidating, there’s also some from Armywife on a very similar white picket fence. It looks amazing and it’s a rose that seems so easy to train however you want it. Is Armywife still active on here? Here’s some posts with her older photos... http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2979041/second-year-peggy-martin-rose

and

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3731971/fast-growing-rose-for-white-picket-fence-full-sun

The nice thing is that it's relatively thornless.

Ingrid, wow! Your La France is positively gorgeous. You did a service to us all by alerting ARE that their variety is not authentic. Sorry that I wasn't clearer- I meant I want to plant 'White Pet' for its name ('pet') next to DdeB because he was my pet, so symbolically it's close to DdeB I planted and grew with him.

Embothrium, re: evergreens - thanks for the reminder, I almost forgot about other plants :-) I have a gardenia that I'll plant in the front area as well. In the back area, where there is more shade, I plan to plant a few camellias. There were tons of huge, overgrown azaleas on the outside of the fence, not looking good at all. I removed most of them to clear up the area and instead I'll plant smaller size azaleas, depending on where my roses end up being planted. The problem is that azaleas are mostly pink and red, the color of many of my roses. But gardenias and camellias will definitely go there and in the back.

Flowersaremusic, that PM looks awesome but I'm so relieved that Cori Ann found another PM grown on a picket fence like mine. I really want it there, so many thanks Cori Ann. Crepuscule obviously will not go on the fence as I imagined initially, but glad that PM will be fine there.

Vaporvac, yes, another plus for PM is that it's thornless and it's from Louisiana :-)

Carol, I've been following that thread on Munstead Wood and guess what - it will now be my first Austin! Spectacular rose. Thanks for noticing the neighborhood, I love it too. Those cypress trees turn out to be mine, I learned that the property extends beyond the fence by 10-15 feet. Above all, I am truly grateful for your expert advice and will spend some time rethinking the front beds, taking your suggestions in mind. I did plan an arch close to the gate with Reve d'Or on it, it just that the Rd'Or crop failed this summer at ARE and I'll order it from somewhere else. I definitely want to follow your ideas about the palette and, speaking of apricot, I've had my eye on Buff Beauty. Still not sure about how it can be incorporated because that's yet another rose I like for its blooms but don't know much about its size and growth.

Cori Ann, thanks so much for finding these threads. I promise I'll share the photo of PM once it starts growing and flowering on my picket fence!

Sorry, some glitch happened and my post disappeared. Here it is again:

Ingrid, wow! Your La France is positively gorgeous. You did a service to us all by alerting ARE that their variety is not authentic. Sorry that I wasn't clearer- I meant I want to plant 'White Pet' for its name ('pet') next to DdeB because he was my pet, so symbolically it's close to DdeB I planted and grew with him.

Embothrium, re: evergreens - thanks for the reminder, I almost forgot about other plants :-) I have a gardenia that I'll plant in the front area as well. In the back area, where there is more shade, I plan to plant a few camellias. There were tons of huge, overgrown azaleas on the outside of the fence, not looking good at all. I removed most of them to clear up the area and instead I'll plant smaller size azaleas, depending on where my roses end up being planted. The problem is that azaleas are mostly pink and red, the color of many of my roses. But gardenias and camellias will definitely go there and in the back.

Flowersaremusic, that PM looks awesome but I'm so relieved that Cori Ann found another PM grown on a picket fence like mine. I really want it there, so many thanks Cori Ann. Crepuscule obviously will not go on the fence as I imagined initially, but glad that PM will be fine there.

Vaporvac, yes, another plus for PM is that it's thornless and it's from Louisiana :-)

Carol, I've been following that thread on Munstead Wood and guess what - it will now be my first Austin! Spectacular rose. Thanks for noticing the neighborhood, I love it too. Those cypress trees turn out to be mine, I learned that the property extends beyond the fence by 10-15 feet. Above all, I am truly grateful for your expert advice and will spend some time rethinking the front beds, taking your suggestions in mind. I did plan an arch close to the gate with Reve d'Or on it, it just that the Rd'Or crop failed this summer at ARE and I'll order it from somewhere else. I definitely want to follow your ideas about the palette and, speaking of apricot, I've had my eye on Buff Beauty. Still not sure about how it can be incorporated because that's yet another rose I like for its blooms but don't know much about its size and growth.

Cori Ann, thanks so much for finding these threads. I promise I'll share the photo of PM once it starts growing and flowering on my picket fence!

No problem JBP. Armywife’s photos were actually some of the photos that convinced me to get PM and once I saw your white picket fence I immediately thought of how beautiful I thought her yard was. I can’t wait to see how yours turns out!

Embothrium, thanks for mentioning the value of evergreens. I forget to do that, and admit my roses usually only get blooming perennials as companions. Do you recommend any particular evergreens that go well with roses and don't overpower them? My garden isn't viewed during winter since it's under several feet of snow, so they'd only be appreciated in the warmer months.

Cori Ann, those links ought to convince everyone they need Peggy Martin. I believe the rose in the links was only 2 years old, or did I read that wrong? I would love to see an update. Does yours drop spent blooms cleanly, or do you have to cut them off? It blooms so profusely, that would be a big job. Maybe a good squirt with the hose would take care of it.

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm wondering if PM (the rose not the fungal disease..) has found her way to Europe.. She looks and sounds like a wondeful found rose. I wonder if she's some sort of Noisette..

Nik, to my knowledge PM is only offered in the US, but I could be wrong and hopefully others in the know will chime in. I believe that PM is a rambler of unknown heritage. There was a thread a while back (maybe Cori Ann's?) where various members speculated on her classification. Carol

Thank you for the links. I "accidentally" bought a PM from ARE this year and plan to build a small arbour over a gate. I was planning on growing another rose up the opposite side as I had the impression she didn't rebloom that well. I'd be thrilled to see that colour during the summer. Cori Ann, has your bloomed at all yet. Mine grows well in her 5 gal. pot, but no blooms yet.

The growth is healthy and very pretty greenery, but if you want blooms all year you may want another rose on the other side. The thing is that Peggy Martin will need more room than just an arbor ... make sure there's something for her to climb across on the side too. Is the arbor/gate part of a fence? If so, can she extend across the fence too?

I have 2, both from ARE, and they may be white/pink sports. I'm waiting to see what happens next spring and in subsequent cuttings to see if they're stable sports or if it's just a one time only occurrence. Here's some photos from mine blooming last spring, but this is not the normal coloring for this rose... http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4613872/peggy-martin-from-are-showing-white-and-light-pink-flowers?n=35

JBP, the more I think about PM and the more I look at her online photos, the more I believe that she'll need a couple of arches or arbors to herself. I might plant her in the corner where you've sited AD and grow her over arches or arbors extending in both directions. She's soooo big...and beautiful!

Buff Beauty is a wonderful pillar, tall fence, arch or large trellis rose! She can handle some shade, and in warmer regions, her blooms remain more deeply colored and last longer in partial shade. I came across a gorgeous blog by a southern gardener named Phillip Oliver. If you Google Buff Beauty and his name, you'll see nice images of BB thriving in his garden. In warmer climates, with maturity of around 5 years, you should get two good flushes of bloom, spring and fall. I've found that maturity and deadheading are keys to BB's performance.

Have you ever grown Madame Plantier? There are some good photos of her in Phillip Oliver's garden, too. His blog is called Dirt Therapy.

Camellias will be a gracious evergreen addition to your landscape! I compliment your good taste.

Carol

P.S. It looks like Phillip Oliver also grows Peggy Martin. There's a shot on his blog where PM is trained at the base of a tree. (May 17, 2013, "May Roses.") Food for thought! Carol

Carol, a huge thank-you! I'm going to take lots of your ideas for both the front and back areas. I need to do much more work on the backyard and the house, and for now I would put one arch and then later add more. I'm still holding on Peggy on the fence but would put it in the corner, behind the arch, and let it trail the fence in both directions. If it starts to get big on one end, I'll add an arch there as you suggested (if I understood you correctly). On this arch as drawn on the photo, now thinking of it as a focal point, I would have a peachy-yellowish climber (the color on the photo is not exactly the right one because I used a basic online image editor) and, following more of your ideas, I'd love to add a deep violet clematis. Marchesa would now go with Reine des Violettes on one side and Autumn Damask on the other, all together forming a grouping like you mentioned earlier. And, of course, I'll be making additions in other front areas (La France, SDLM, etc.) that Ingrid and others suggested.

Crepuscule will go on a pergola near the chain-link fence in the backyard. That fence is almost 60 ft long and I'll have more roses there (second image below). Along this fence I'll be playing with different structures for climbers, trellises, arches, and so on.

Thank you for pointing me to this blog. I just looked at it and it's amazing. I'll immerse myself exploring it over the next few weeks.

I really think this is way better than what I started with and now love it! Thank you again for your generosity and awesome suggestions, Carol. This forum is indispensable for any rose gardener. Thank you good people!

On the AD being "rangy"....it can be, but it's a rose that likes being pruned and dead headed throughout. The more you prune it the more likely it is to continue flowering past the first burst. So with that in mind....if it's rangy it's being left to it's own rather than being shaped and getting the most out of it's blooming potential.

JBP, it sounds like you've got a beautiful plan! I can hardly wait to read updates as your garden unfolds. And remember, roses are tough and flexible. If something doesn't work out because your neighbor cuts down a tree or one of your climbers suddenly eats an entire bed, no worries. Just rearrange the furniture. I find that gardens, like life, are experimental learning experiences. Thank you for sharing the adventure with all of us! Carol

Gorgeous pictures everyone and you've gotten great advice from people closer to your zone. Just a heads-up that you want to be a bit careful where you buy your Reine des Violettes, since there are two versions of the rose circulating other that name. I started with "Not Reine des Violettes", which is both thorny and a once-bloomer - so Ingrid gets the satisfaction of being right even in her temporary "error". The color is lovely and it climbs, and it has the peppery foliage smell, but no rebloom ever on mine. I have now ordered the real RdV from Burlington, who I trust to know that she has the real one, and it's thornless and should be a repeat bloomer. I'm sure other people would have the real one, but do ask if repeat bloom matters to you.

Cynthia

Great point about RdV, Cynthia! Carol

Cynthia, thank you for the heads-up about RdeV. I got it from ARE and, while still young, it looks thornless so far. I'll keep an eye on it. Yes, I would prefer a rebloomer and I like its unique color. Cardinal Richelieu is another rose with an intriguing color that I like but I chose RdeV over it because it's supposed to be a rebloomer. Hope ARE has the right one.

Here's a bloom:

ARE has the right one.

JBP -- In my 20 years of experience with it, RdV tended to bloom heavily in the spring -- very little in the hotter summer months, but following with a lesser flush in the Fall.
That's pretty typical for an HP -- as opposed to Teas and Chinas which tend to bloom more or less continuously, or HTs which flush again about 50 days after deadheading.

Jerijen, thanks for the photos of AD. Wow, I didn't realize it could get that big. I just removed some overgrown azalea shrubs on the outside of the fence in the same area because I didn't like how they looked there. Your photos give me much to think about again where to put AD. Or, alternatively, I might have to prune it in a way that Protoavis recommends. I know that RdV isn't a prolific rebloomer, but it does have this unique color that I like very much. This color is not commonly found in teas and chinas, many of which I do plan to plant in other areas. Good to know about the timing of HP blooms because it will help me decide on what else to plant in those areas. Many thanks!

Sheila, I am relieved that ARE has the right RdV. Thank you!

JBP, how are your roses coming along ? Any pics as how they bloom and growth yet ? I can't wait to see them......
jin

Jin, thanks for asking and following up on my garden-making. I'm currently on vacation so I can't take any photos but will do it when I get back. It's a dormant period right now in the summer and I don't expect too many to bloom but the tropical storm that just passed through should have watered them thoroughly :-) We were lucky that it didn't cause any major disaster this time. BTW, that arch on the diagram ended up in a different place in my front yard.

Once again, thanks for your interest and I'll be posting the photos upon my return in about a couple of weeks.

Have a great vacation. Yeah, it is dormant season to me too but some of ya'll it was just Spring couple of weeks ago. Not sure where you were residing but .....it can wait. Enjoy yourself :)
jin