You need a kitchen designer. Don't rely on your architect. There must be 50 ways to make this better.

Damn.......I was afraid of that. He is doing our structural engineering which has been worth the money so far and the electrical layout but I was hoping to stay away from needing to add on the designer too.

Worth it for sure! So many details. Makes all the difference.

38:5 inches in a major walkway with seating is going to be a pinch point headache. You could do 12 inch reach-in pantries there or make them deeper by doing between the stud cabs.

I was told by design gurus on the GardenWeb-Kitchens forum that just the 24 inches for a dishwasher was not enough room between the sink and fridge...you have the space to avoid...I did not.

I am not really fond of the L-shaped island...it is a long walk from the table to the fridge; and every time someone does, it means walking around that L leg instead of a straight shot.

your zones flow well...ice, water, stone, fire.

I agree rantontoo, that island is a mess. I think it could be reduced to a rectangular shape and a little smaller to where it doesn't come into the dining area so much.

Try posting in the kitchen forum: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitchbath

Take a look at this thread first and add in the relevant dimensions to your drawing: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information?n=2

I'm a bit confused on what's going on at the top-right of the drawing with the pony wall and "open below".

Wow, that looks much more like we wanted and thought. 48" range is more functional than what will look best, cook a lot and will be a joy to have. The kitchen itself is 148" wide so need to make sure that island would work that way but with a 4' clearance from the counters we should end up with enough to do a 3' x 7' or so island the way you have it. Thank you so much for the help!

Agree with others on this point: you pretty much need to scrap this plan and start fresh with a designer who specializes in kitchens. Compared to the tens of thousands you will be spending on this whole project, the designer’s fees will be a drop in the bucket. You don’t want to end up hating a new custom kitchen because it is just not functional. That would be a tragedy and a complete waste of time and money.

I think Before was likely better.

I think your architect doesn’t cook. And barely microwaves. And isn’t looking at the big picture.

I think you are trying to cram too much kitchen into not enough space.

I think you will be 100K over budget before you even start.

I think a different house might suit you better.

You are trying to make something into something it is not, and never will be. No matter how much money you throw at it.

Don't agree with Sophie this time (a rarity) -- the kitchen seems big, as long as you don't chop it up like that plan did. Simpler island, no desk space (raise the window if you have to!), some kind of logic to the whole thing. With Beverly's plan, you could still put the sink on the lower wall, if you want it off the island, but I suspect you'd prefer to look out into the rest of the house while doing dishes than stare at a wall.

Way too crowded needs a major re-work. Eliminating the window behind the desk area and removing the pony will allow you to move the refrigerator down and a tall storage cabinet / pantry if you feel you need more tall storage. It will also allow you to put a longer more functional island in. Last but not least, never crowd the high traffic areas. It just makes the home feel small.

What struck me as odd was the two big windows in a relatively small laundry space. Look for a way to bring that light into more of the home. Don't be afraid to make the laundry more visible. Dress it up it's not a dungeon. It will make it a much more pleasant area to be in on laundry day.

Architects in my experience are not good interior designers and for sure suck at kitchen design get a KD now and count your blessings you did not go with this design. You need a counter depth fridge and I never advise my clients to do a 48” range the exhaust system costs a small fortune and is noisy and honestly I run a catering biz from my home with a 36” gas range and double wall ovens and it has served me well for 10 yrs.Those are only 2 things that I see in a very poorly designed space .

I think your designer is trying too hard. You have this huge room and the sink, 'fridge and stove are all shoved to one side. Beverly's drawing is a much better use of space.

The island is awkward. The refrigerator is in the middle of the room, which is rarely a good idea. I like the refrigerator at the edge of the room because people want to access it while you are working.

Do you need the desk? Desks made their way into kitchen designs but I don't see them as often these days. I'd rather have counter space. Unless it is something you feel you will use.

This is a terrible layout and gives architects a bad name. Almost all architects can come up with a better plan than this without even trying.

Bev's layout is a huge step in the right direction. My only comment is that both the sink and the cooktop could be along the exterior wall, freeing up the island for food prep.

Thank you everybody, even Sophie ;) We are going to cut ways with the architect, he was very helpful in figuring out how much of the wall we could remove and working with the contractor on all of that.

Our original idea was to put in a smaller window and continue that counter top all the way at the same height but he recommended saving money and putting in the desk or shorter cabinets. That window does let in a lot of light but I think having the counter drop down below the existing window would make that area unusable and would be a waste of money.

Any contractor or even handyman can switch out a window. If the window isn't on the front façade, the best thing is to replace it with one that will permit counter height. Working around a window is rarely the answer.

The other reason for the 48" range is that my wife doesn't want to take up wall space with in-wall ovens since we want 2.

We have a standard size two oven range. We love it. I'm not trying to talk you out of 48", I am simply saying there is an alternative.

Depending on where you are buying your cabinets they may have an in-house kitchen designer who can help you with the layout. Usually there is a small fee, in the $150-$200 range. Some other cabinet companies offer their design services for free.

Beverly's drawing turns the whole space into an open floor plan that any family would love. Use it as a starting point and just work with the cabinet company designer to make sure your specific needs and wishes are met.

best of luck!

Thank you everybody for your help. This was his next version with some of the input from everyone.

Even worse. Violates a half dozen Kitchen Design Rules. This guy is not a Kitchen Designer. Nor does he cook.

Well its a little better, but still not great. The dishwasher has to be next to the sink. The range, sink, dishwasher triangle is just bad.

Okay......since when does a dishwasher have to be next to a sink?

I appreciate the input from you all but Sophie you've had NO input, it's just been negative comments with nothing else so not sure what to think of any of your opinions since they aren't backed with any kind of reasoning at all.

Well that's the most functional layout in any kitchen. You don't want to rinse and scrape the dishes then turn around and drip over to the open dishwasher a dish at a time. When the dishwasher and trash pull-out flank the sink, its much easier and quicker to use.

Since most people rinse their dishes at least a little before putting them in the dishwasher, the best place for the dishwasher is next to the sink. The dishwasher requires plumbing that can easily be hooked to the sink's plumbing rather than a whole separate waste line and supply lines.

Completely understand all of that, having the dishwasher behind us would work in the same way as it would be very close when the door is open but the only other option is to put the dishwasher next to the sink and then have to move the range to the only other wall that you could use for it which is the back wall next to the fridge. I guess we could move it to the right of the sink but it would be just as far away or more than in the island

What nobody is asking or knows is our preferences like I don't want my back to everybody in the kitchen while I'm cooking, so having the range in the middle of the kitchen makes it easier for me to see what's going on in the living area to my left, talk to my wife or kids when they are prepping things in the sink and talk to the people at the island easier.

Does any of that make sense as to why the layout is that way?

Rules of Kitchen Design You’d think that someone calling themselves a designer would be familiar with these enough to have them internalized. And you’d think hat someone planning a kitchen redo would have come across the NKBA when doing even basic research.

The guy isn’t a Designer. And he doesn’t cook. You need someone that is trained in Kitchen Design. And who Cooks. They do not give away free ideas on the internet. They get paid for their work. Hire a local KD. Or hire an online one. Just hire one.

You could put the range in front of the new window. And put the DW to the left of sink as is. Or you could lengthen the island a little and have the DW, sink and trash there and add a prep sink at the current sink location.

You have no real prep space between the sink and stove....the most valuable space for prepping. If you move the sink to the wall with the fridge, you get the optimal zone order: ice, water, stone, fire; and the dishwasher can be by the sink. I would put the dishwasher between the sink and fridge to give you the most uninterrupted prep space between sink and range.

I like it, thank you very much rantontoo.