Worth it to do major renovation?

5 years ago

I've been reading on the forums for the last month or two and getting lots of ideas. I recently became disabled to the point where I am no longer working. I have moved back home with my parents (both of whom are also retired/disabled). So we are a family of 3 adults. Two of us have mobility issues that we have to consider when designing our kitchen. As a family we are trying to see if we can manage to fit certain features into our main level, or if it would be impossible/too cost prohibitive. If we can't get the features we want to fit, we may consider building a new home more seriously.

Goals for the Main level as a whole:

Kitchen layout with storage for bulk items
Main level Laundry (either Kitchen or Bath)
Step/roll in shower

Goals for Kitchen

Must have a Pantry (either walk in or closet deep enough for bulk items like TP/Paper Towels/etc)
Must have Floors that are giving (eg: no tile/concrete)

Wants (in order of importance)

Coffee station for Dad's Coffee machine and a few cups
Pet Area for storing cat food and to have their bowls and water fountain
As much drawer storage as possible
Table height area for prepping

We would usually only have 2 cooks in the kitchen at a time, but the third person may be moving around to get something (like BBQ Sauce when grilling). I enjoy baking as much as my body allows, so I would love to have a long run of counter that I could spread out on (I currently use the DR Table).

Much of our cooking is otherwise pretty simple and evenly split between stove and oven. We do use the microwave for cooking as well as for reheating food. Our kitchen is original to the house (built in mid 70's), so we want to update it. We are going to do new cabinets, counters, flooring and some appliances (stove, maybe DW); the materials will depend on if we are staying or moving. If we move, we will either sell or rent the house so it needs to be on par with the neighborhood (meaning linoleum flooring stock cabinets, laminate counters).

We are able to move pretty much anything (plumbing, electrical, etc) if it will make the layout better, but would prefer to keep the sink in the same area by the window. The current stove is electric, and we do not know if there is gas behind it or not. The vent hood is recirculating. About a year and a half ago my parents put LVP in the main living areas (LR, DR, and Hallway). At the time they decided not to buy enough for the kitchen, so it will need to be a different surface, preferably one that could work for a bathroom as well. Because of this remodel, the wall between the Living Room and Kitchen can't be moved or taken down. We would also prefer not to move the window in the kitchen, as it and the siding are just a few years old. The house is 1 floor, but it has a walk out basement, so the kitchen window is actually 2 stories up from the backyard that it faces.

We do not entertain much. Sometimes we have a family member from out of town to stay with us for a few days, and once in a great while we have family/friends over for a BBQ. At that time, there would be 4-10 people (4 of them kids) eating at once. Guests usually do not help with prep, unless they want, but it would be nice to have them around to chat while we work. We usually do not eat at the DR, mostly mom and I eat in the LR (because it is more comfortable to sit) and dad eats in his office (where he spends most of his time). We will eat dinner at the DR maybe once every month or so.

Mobility challenges: I am 32, and of the 3 of us have the most severe issues. I have trouble standing for more than 5-10 minutes, and prefer to sit down while prepping/cooking. Because I am short (5'3") I generally prefer a table height area to sit at for prep. I currently use the table, but would like to be able to prep in the kitchen if we can manage it, but it is not a deal breaker. I may need to use a walker on an off in the not too distant future so we need wide enough aisles for that. Both my mother and I have trouble with our shoulders, so we would prefer as much storage as possible in the base cabinets.

I thank you all kindly in advance for all of your ideas and information.

Featured Answer

Milly Rey

5 years ago

Got it! I can totally design around that.

I get tested for RA every single time I see a doctor. Stilllll don't have it, don't care what my CCP antibodies say--my muscles, not joints, are screwed up.

You will have SO MUCH more gas in the tank when your kitchen works for not so good days!!!! I'll sleep on it and come back. Your kitchen is SO big that you can basically have one low wall without losing any standard height functionality.

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Comments (63)

Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
Yes, I have short legs and a normal torso, so table height chairs are best (and even they are too tall sometimes).

I am glad to hear you are able to recover. My mother and I both have Rheumatoid Arthritis, so we have good days and bad. I try to plan for the 'not so good days' when it comes to the kitchen, because the actual bad days leave me stranded in bed or the recliner.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
Yes, grip is sometimes an issue. I want a range with controls on the front (knobs large enough for me to grasp easily), and prefer pulls that we can grasp in the palm or between fingers without bending/twisting our wrists too much.
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I will preface this by saying I know nothing about the real estate market in Apex, NC, but off the top of my head, a 2,400 sq ft house that only has 3 bedrooms and 2 baths has a lot of wasted space somewhere. Several years ago, my mom, a widow at the time, bought a major fixer upper. It was an all brick house in an up-and-coming part of the city (major US city) and the only thing it had going for it was its location (which is obviously something you cannot change). We all thought she was completely nuts, but for whatever reason she fell in love with the house. She didn't move any walls or add any additional square footage but basically tore nearly everything down to the studs. Everywhere she turned, it was one problem after the next. She budgeted around $75K for all the wanted to do (including finishing the basement) and in the end (about 2 years later) her total came closer to $150K. Yes, almost double her original budget. Since she worked full time, she hired contractors to do a lot of the work, but she did a lot herself, like painting and tiling. We referred to the house as the money pit. She knew there was likely asbestos (there was, everywhere) but she did not anticipate all the plumbing and electrical needing upgrading. Or the mold issue in the basement. Or the broken sewer pipe in front of the house. I just shook my head every time she'd complain about another issue the contractors found. She wound up selling a few years later. She could only list her house for around $50-60K more than what she paid for it because that's what the market dictated, even though everything was new. In the end she lost nearly $100K. Even though everyone and their mother warned her at the time, she didn't listen and regrets having put that time and money into such a project. My husband and I recently finished our basement. A small remodel based on some of the projects I read on this site. But I would never do it again. We wound up spending maybe $15K more than I expected (because I didn't account for some of the things we needed to do before actually finishing the basement, like a new sump pump and having the walls sealed). We lived here during the finishing and because the weather is brutally cold, most of the stuff that was originally downstairs is still in the garage and will be dealt with this spring. I'm tired of my house being in disarray. I just want my life back to "normal". My husband is thrilled with the results; I would have rather moved (and tried to convince him to before we started this project, but I was obviously unsuccessful). Bottom line is these kind of major remodels take a lot more time (ours took a month longer) and much more money than you think. Unexpected problems that come up are par for the course. And then there's the problem of overbuilding/over improving for your area. My mom was definitely a victim of that and why she could only list her house for what she did. I'd rather buy a house that had everything I wanted in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even give a fixer upper a second look.
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Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
RA is tricksy, I test off the charts, and my mom (who was diagnosed 20 years ago) has never tested positive. She does have fibro as well, which does tend to be more in the muscles, but it is so hard to pin down what pain goes with what, and fibro is hard to diagnose in the first place.

We are looking forward to a functioning kitchen, this remodel is 15 years in the making (our stove has gone from outdated, to only having 2 functioning burners and an oven that doesn't close properly).

I have little emotional attachment to the house, so I tend to lean toward building new with exactly what we want, but that can get so expensive. On the other hand between the kitchen and the bath, it may wind up being cheaper. Last time we priced out new ICF (minus the land cost) we were told usually $80/sq ft for simple roof design and builder grade finishes. We were looking at roughly 2,000 sq ft, so $160,000 + land. Personally, I like the general layout of our main level. I would just stretch the house sideways a few feet to give a little more space in the kitchen and LR. And split the bedrooms/add a master suite.

Anyway, thanks for taking a look and your help.
_sophiewheeler
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Bringing an old house with narrow clearances into ADA compliance is very expensive and very difficult. I did one with a VA grant 10 years ago that was 90K just for the bathroom. 10 years ago. That would be at least 125K today.

That 90K didn’t cover widening the halls, or the kitchen redo, which the homeowner paid for separately. The kitchen and bedroom alterations that allowed the halls to be widened was another 250K. They could have bought a new, better designed, retirement villa for that. But they loved their house and wanted to stay there. I’m in a cheap cost of labor area.

Building new makes much more sense. But there is no place in the US that has been $80 a square foot for an accessible build in 25 years time. There’s a 1 missing in front of that number. That isn’t even mobile home pricing. Certainly not ICF, which comes at a premium. The least expensive new build that is accessible is usually in a planned retirement community. Those units can go between $125-150 a square foot around here because they are done to an economy of scale as a whole neighborhood of similar buildings done by the same builder.

That is Not a custom accessible build. That would easily be in the $200/$300 a square here, for something basically accessible, but not crazy on the finishes.

Your parents or you may qualify for assistance programs to retrofit or to build. Contact a local senior citizen center for leads to grants and low income accessible housing.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
Sophie, the builder we spoke to is an acquaintance of my dad. He just built and sold a 1300 sq ft ICF spec home with radiant heating and xtra wide halls for $105,000. Just a simple rectangular box, so simple roof lines. We thought about purchasing it, but the living areas were too small, and there was no room for an office or guests. I know $80/sq ft isn't a firm quote, but it is a realistic ballpark for our more rural area in NE Missouri.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
(sorry to split comments, my phone glitched and posted too quick).

That said, I understand that this is expensive. Realistically we probably expect to stay here another 10-15 years. Once my dad is gone, it's more likely mom and I would look to downsize for maintenance. And once it is just me, I'll likely move out west to be closer to family.

We aren't trying to go full ADA compliant, we just want to make things a little easier by limiting going up and down stairs, and making it easier and less risky to use the bathroom and kitchen as mobility and endurance become more of an issue.

I was tasked to come up with a kitchen plan that mom and I liked so we could price it out locally. We will be doing some renovation no matter what, but we don't want to over invest for the area by too much.
just_janni
5 years ago
I just want to say that Milly's willingness to jump here is really cool - and ask all the right questions.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
I'm baaaack!

What Joy needs isn't a 100% ADA wheelchair accessible house but something that works for crap joints and pain when standing for long and difficulty moving around.

I have an unnamed (literally unnamed) genetic muscular disorder. It causes pain, tightness, weird autoimmune muscle stuff (golf ball groin lymph nodes --nearest largestmuscles), parathesia (warm/wet/bug crawling sensations), fasciculations (I totally spelled that wrong), etc. Without making it a sob story, it's the WEIRD downhill consequences of the tight muscles, causing injury and misalignment, that really mess me up. I spent two years being in excruciating pain when I stood for more than 10 minutes at a stretch (and until I got it fixed, my whole life, I thought feeling like your feet are on fire after being on then for more than 45 minutes was totally normal--go figure).

My goals with my suggestions will be:

1) Retain usability for standing and visual appeal. Make the lower height stuff easy and inexpensive to pull out, if that's eventually desired for resale.

2) Make an effective lower height prep space.

3) Don't break the bank. Lol.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
The huge bonus you have going in is that your kitchen is huge.

Your fridge is also perfect already. The side by side is exactly what I would have recommended.

I would move the dishwasher to the other side of the sink. With a 30" IKEA sink base, there will be room. Then, right next to the fridge, I would put a 30" tall pantry cabinet and then a regular height 30" drawer cabinet, both from IKEA. The 30" pantry cabinet would have pullouts and would store all your pantry foods--the stuff you need to access on the shelves from 4' down. The 30" drawer cabinet would hold silverware in the top 5" drawer, cups in a 10" drawer, and plates and bowls in the 15" drawer at the bottom. You can do some IKEA magic and place a 10" drawer inside the 15" drawer on the bottom if you don't want to bend so much.

An old trick is to pull your cabinets 6" off the wall to make a deeper counter for placing appliances or countertop cabinets while still keeping a functional countertop. I'm doing this in my own kitchen, where I won't have any real upper cabinets. (I actually have an interior wall I can recess everything into, too, but that's pretty extreme, and you obviously don't have that!)

I would do this on the left wall ONLY. It will make the fridge look more sleek and built in, but the big bonus is that you can place an IKEA horizontal cabinet on the 30" counter to the left of the sink and on the 24" counter on the right, then another 24" cabinet into the corner. These can hold cups, mugs, whatever.

The single-handle lever faucets are easy to handle with just the side of your hand. You don't even have to curl your fingers around them. If you choose a pull down faucet, you might want to look for ones that have a LOCKING button to switch between spray/not spray so you don't have to hold onto it. (My mother's hands spasm a lot! This makes a big difference with her!)

When unloading dishes, you can sit in a chair in front of the dishwasher and go from the dishwasher on the right side to the drawers on the left mostly without moving. So that's the left side of the kitchen!

Depending on the doors, that's maybe $3000 there, including moderately priced counters, faucet, sink, etc.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
By the way, I constantly make new posts because I only post on my phone, and it's too easy to lose everything!
Milly Rey
5 years ago
I would also put an IKEA fridge cabinet around the fridge, and if you have room in the dining room, I would put two shallow full height 15" wide pantries at right angles to the main cabinets against the left side. One gives you a place to stash the broom/swiffer/whatever, and the other takes shelves for cleaning supplies.
cpartist
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Do either or both of you by any chance use nutrasweet?
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
What about on the right where we have the row of freestanding island carts, do you think there is room to do some cabinets with or without a lowered peninsula? I was thinking a prep sink with trash pullout below, and some open area for the cat supplies. Maybe end with a cabinet for special baking pans/supplies. If we bring the other side out, will it feel too crowded?

Thank you for all of the ideas. There is a lot to think about when it comes to faucets, and how much dish/pan storage we need. Any idea how much of a gap there would need to be between the fridge and pantry cab if we stayed with our current standard fridge?
Milly Rey
5 years ago
Okay, now the oven! I don't know how old that oven is, but standard ranges are 30" and not 27".

I would seriously consider replacing the range with a double oven range like this IF the bottom oven is big enough: https://m.lowes.com/pd/LG-30-in-Smooth-Surface-5-Element-3-cu-ft-4-3-cu-ft-Self-Cleaning-Double-Oven-Convection-Electric-Range-Stainless-Steel/1000142713

Unfortunately, there are none with front knobs AND two ovens AND the second oven being full sized for a 30" range! If that's too small, then front controls with a regular single oven will work, of course.

I would put a blind corner cabinets to the left, with one of the advanced interior fittings to make it easy to use.

Here are the two easiest options:

https://www.wayfair.com/Vauth-Sagel-Flex-Corner-Basket-for-Cabinet-90006258-L903-K~VTSG1147.html?refid=GX174202035328-VTSG1147&device=m&ptid=288628693914&targetid=aud-307622557841:pla-288628693914&gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0ccN77fYtT1ZcaEuWUsYfd7S-fRF6EjbLFE4dPbNvzd-zdoXLNWblLuLBoC2D8QAvD_BwE

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LU0NFMO/ref=asc_df_B00LU0NFMO5212856/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B00LU0NFMO&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198090964233&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=500589683585312854&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007721&hvtargid=pla-318073206662

There re are multiple companies that make these, with or without drawer space. You may or may not need a drawer there. I would put pots and pans in this cabinet.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
cpartist, We don't use any artificial sweeteners. I will use a little sugar or honey when we make up pitchers of iced tea, but otherwise sugar is for baking. I haven't baked as much in the past few years. I was living in an apartment that had 35" of countertop and exhaustion and pain prevented me from most of what I could do in the space. Since my dad retired he has taken up baking as well, he mostly does pies, while I prefer cookie/cake making. Last Christmas though we did chocolates, so we definitely need some more counterspace if we ever try that again.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
I only drink one artificially sweetened drink per week, max. :). I've very recently started having stevia in yogurt and berries. I take my tea black, like my heart ;)

Lemme add a little more, then I'll go back and check on comments! Not ignoring, just working out--will tweak soon.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
Milly Rey, I like the idea of adding storage in the DR, but the air vents are in some awkward places in there. I'll have to see what fits. Since we've got rid of the carpet we keep the roomba dock in there, so the idea isn't too out of left field.
cpartist
5 years ago
Joy, so glad you only use natural sweeteners. Nutrasweet is poison. I always ask people because several years ago I developed frozen shoulder in both shoulders. I live in both NY and FL. It was bad in NY. A few weeks after I got to FL, it got so bad I couldn't even lift my arms up.

I went to a doctor in Fl who let me know that frozen shoulder was most common in women who are over 50 and diabetic. Yep that's me.

One day I was reading an article on fibromyalgia because my DH's son had it at the time. The first thing it said was that Nutrasweet could make fibromyalgia pain much worse. A light bulb went off in my head.

When I was in NY, I'd have one cup of coffee a day with one packet of nutrasweet.

When I got to FL, I'd have my morning coffee and the rest of the day I'd drink iced tea. I'd put a nutrasweet into the tea. I was using anywhere from 3-6 nutrasweet packets a day.

I told my DH (who started his adult life as a bio chemist) that I was immediately stopping using nutrasweet. He poo-pooed me. I stopped the nutrasweet and within a week I was able to raise my arms up again. Within a month I no longer had any pain, or any other symptoms. I haven't had a problem since.

A year later my DH started having shoulder pain. Without telling me, he stopped using nutrasweet and after 2 weeks without pain said to me, "I hate it when you're right." LOL.

And the best part? After I stopped using artificial sweeteners and instead started using only maple syrup and agave syrup, my sugar numbers actually went down.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
I would put the stove immediately next to the blind corner cabinet if you pull the left wall of cabinets out 6". That's not such a big move that you would need to change electrical or gas, but your vent hood exhaust might need to change.

That gives you a max counter stretch of 46" (and change) into the corner after spacers.

I would put in an IKEA drawer cabinet with however many drawers you need for your space. This makes this a landing space for the stove AND a good standard height baking prep space. (My baking prep space is farther from water than my cooking prep space.)

I would recommend a 30" drawer cabinet plus a 15" cabinet with a mixer lift into the corner, if both you and your dad bake. That looks like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042QB6M4/ref=asc_df_B0042QB6M45212856/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B0042QB6M4&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167127663572&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13516773486597121316&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007721&hvtargid=pla-274510408311

Im clumsy so mixer lifts that are accessible from two sides scare me a bit. You can actually mount the lift lower in the cabinet to make it a more comfortable for someone standing OR sitting. You have to lift things pretty high to get them into a mixer on the counter--having it a little lower would probably be easier for everyone. You can have a plug installed in the cabinet so it stays plugged in.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
By the way, I recommend IKEA because to get frameless cabinets (which have the most storage, especially with drawers) that are better, you have to spend 3-5 times as much. I can't buy drawer hardware as nice as theirs for the cost of an entire IKEA drawer!!!
Milly Rey
5 years ago
Joy--you can keep the roomba's dock in the toe kick, if you don't need a toe kick vent!
sheloveslayouts
5 years ago
I reread your original post. Should we try to find space for a washer and dryer in your kitchen?
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
If there is room, the kitchen would be ideal. I'm trying to find room in the kitchen, bathroom, or hallway for a fullsize combo unit. we would still keep the setup downstairs for really large stuff/extra use, but for everyday use a good combo unit would work. Just can't figure out where it would work.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
Okay, right wall!!!

Leave 48" between the stove wall and the start of the right wall. This is going to be the lower cooking/prep space. It should be 29-30",instead of 36", to the counter top. Ikea has discontinued their lower base cabinets, grrrrr, but they can be cut down really easily by any competent contractor. Cut them down from 30" to 25" to stay with the modular heights of the doors and then make the toekick shorter to make up the difference.

I would start with prep space. A 18" cabinet with a pullout holding all the cookie sheets, cutting boards, even casseroles vertically. That would be handy sitting or standing. The microwave would sit on this stretch of counter. A perfect height while sitting and not super annoying while standing. You can't have a really huge microwave there, though.

Then an ADA single bowl under mount shallow sink in a 30" space--no bottom cabinet, just a filler to hide the underside of the sink and appliance support bars. The shallow sinks are just under 5" deep, not counting the counter, which means you can get your legs under them and you can actually reach things in the bottom while seated. Next, a support side panel and 30" of open prep counter. Then another support panel with a 30" induction cooktop. These usually have touch controls, but they ARE truly touch controls, not "mash" controls, so they shouldn't be a problem. Induction cooktops can protrude as little as a quarter inch below the countertop level, and they are super safe. This would also need a support end panel.

Then another 12" of landing space with a cabinet with drawers underneath. This would be for cooking tools, mostly.

You could also pull this whole stretch of cabinets slightly off the wall so you can leave your small appliances out along the back. That changes your hood setup. You could also put smaller upper cabinets here. 15" off the counter would just be 45"--a row of IKEA's 15" high horizontal cabinets wouldn't be too high for your shoulders--the shelves would be OUT from standing, not UP. All your less used small appliances can go in there!
Milly Rey
5 years ago
Can you give full measurements for the dining room? I think we can make this work. And where vents are!
Milly Rey
5 years ago
And doors! And what they lead to!
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
I'll have to move some furniture, so measurements will have to wait til tomorrow. Basically there is a sliding door that takes up most of the outer wall, this goes to the deck where our grill and smoker are. On the other side of the door is a floor vent and the roomba dock. on the back wall is the hutch (it is likely going, to give us more room), and the hallway. The hallway goes to the 2 bedrooms at the end of the house, and my dads office and the shared bathroom. The bathroom shares the hutch wall. One side of the dining room is open to the kitchen, and one side to the living room/front door. The door to the basement is also in the dr.

In the meantime here are pictures of each side. My best guestimate would be 12x12, but it may be slightly longer.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
retaking the blurry photos
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
additional angles
Milly Rey
5 years ago
Yep, you can totally get a laundry space in there! I'll wait for measurements. The hutch wall is perfect since there is a bathroom on the other side.

Where do you normally come into the house?

Floor vents are easy peasy under cabinets. You get a toekick vent. Wall vents are more expensive.
sheloveslayouts
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
I tried to find a way to put a washer and dryer in the space. I thought you could frame in walls around them and put a counter above, putting the units next to the exterior wall allows easier exhaust. I think even the smallest standard units would put a countertop surface at around 40 inches, almost bar height. So it wouldn't work as a prep space, but more as a landing space or serving space.

Instead of a range, I tried wall ovens in the far corner.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
We come in through the front door in the living room. It is on the otherside of the stairs going to the basement (there is a coat closet in the dead space over the stairs). My dad parks around back, and comes in through the garage in the basement (it is under the kitchen. The current laundry are by the door from the garage to tbe house.)
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
When I get time I'm going to put up a post with measurements in the bath forum. We may be able to steal some space from the hall or bathroom closet. If it doesn't fit in the kitchen, those would be the next best ideas (don't think either mom or dad would like it in the dining room- unfortunately).
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
I like how the laundry fits there, especially if we do a combo unit. We will most likely do glasstop electric or induction range, rather than wall ovens, though -we don't need that much oven space often enough to justify dbl ovens and the cost. I do worry if we put tall pantry cabinets on the right wall, that it would feel closed in.
cpartist
5 years ago
Here are a few articles that might help you too:

[Aging In Place[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/what-to-look-for-in-a-house-if-you-plan-to-age-in-place-stsetivw-vs~82644128)

[Bath Aging in Place[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/11-ways-to-age-proof-your-bathroom-stsetivw-vs~60576589)

[Kitchen Aging In Place[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/kitchen-confidential-10-ways-to-promote-aging-in-place-stsetivw-vs~56039514)
sheloveslayouts
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
The tall cabinet was meant to represent both a wall oven and a microwave. If bending to use the oven in a range is not a future concern, a range is certainly a good option for increasing your counter space.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
The laundry wouldn't be VISIBLE, of course! It would be a pocket laundry, behind bifold doors. We can also hide them to the right of the fridge, in a peninsula facing the dining room--sort of like in Benjes' mockup. I would prefer them hidden in a pocket laundry across the room because then you can go full height and not close anything off, and a pocket laundry wouldn't hit your resale value the way an exposed washer and dryer or even a washer and dryer in cabinets in the kitchen would. Pocket laundry closets are normal in small to mid sized homes built between 1965 and 1990, and they are usually on the dining room wall (a dining room that opens into a kitchen) or in the hall. The hall ones are terrible most of the time because the act of doing laundry causes serious congestion. The utility/laundry between the garage and kitchen is the only arrangement even more common than that.

Above the washer and dryer in the pocket laundry closet would be a laundry stuff shelf and then above that plenty of room for bulk paper items, etc--the second pantry space, basically.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
I really like that idea. I thought I'd played with the position every which way, y'all are so much help.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
Ok, so here is the combined layout. There are 9" on either side of the vent register by the sliding door. The large vent on the back wall of the DR is an intake vent, that is currently under the mailbox storage on wheels and the hutch. Ideally we will get rid of the mailbox cart, but the one of our kitties loves it, so it may have to stay. *g*

I left the kitchen blank, except for the window, in case someone wanted to use it to sketch on.
I am also reposting the detailed current kitchen layout, as it has the specific measurements on it.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Okay! Got it!

You can juuust fit the narrow broom cabinet next to the fridge, flipped 90 degrees to open facing The dining room.

Turn the dining room table so that the long way runs from the patio doors toward the living room. I see that you're not actually using it as a dining table right now. Personally, I have ISSUESSSS with high maintenance tables that require special care to eat on. I would suggest,if your mother doesn't freak, that you replace it with a 36" wide laminate table on a really attractive base. But that's an issue for another time!

Looks like you have 30" from the patio doors to the bathroom wall. Can we get a pocket laundry in there? Yes we can! But it's tricky!!! You realistically need nearly 30" in depth for a washer or dryer--standard ones are 27" deep. Yikes.

You need a recessed washer and dryer connections so you can set the units all the way back against the wall. These are cheap. You will need to build the narrowest front wall possible. Fortunately, you need a wall only an inch deep to put in bifold doors. You can make the wall two and a half inches deep by having the contractor use 2x2s to make the frame for the laundry closet. Then mount the bifold doors flush to the front of the opening. Now you will have 29" of clear space from the closet doors to the back wall. Yay!
Milly Rey
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
You want to include the entire dining room wall as part of the closet. Nothing looks weirder than a funky bump out. With two standard 48" bifold doors--something you can do because you don't actually need to attach a bifold door to a vertical stud on the right side (when looking at the closet), so you can place the opening flush against the exterior wall--you will have an impressive and VERY functional eight feet of clear laundry room space with the doors open! You will need to make the right side of the wall narrower than the standard 2x4 because otherwise you only have 95.5". The 2x2 (with one strategic 2x4 turned flat) gets you a happy 97.2", giving you a whopping inch and a half to spare. (Standard doors are much cheaper than special order. Plus big closets are good.)

Needless to say, you can't put a door casing on this closet. It will need to be finished sheet rock. That is a normal finishing technique for bifold doors, though.

But wait! You say. What about the air return?

Never thought you would ask, my friend! The air return gets removed from where it is and a little bit of extra duct is added to redirect it to the side wall of the new closet. Which is a thousand time better of a place for it! The duct gets boxed in and painted. Be a princess and make them use 1/2" plywood, which they can mud over and paint. It will look just like if they drywalled it, but it will mean that you will only lose 2.5" of the lower left corner of the closet (if the return is a standard 4" in depth, which is should be sine you can make it as wide across the side wall as you need to) instead of 4" This is because the front corner of the closet is the 2x4 turned sideways. Then the 2" of the depth of the 2x4 plus the inner drywall plus 2" more of your actual closet space is taken up by the duct. Then there is the half inch of plywood. Only one inch will even stick out into the clear area of the eight foot door.

If all that is confusing...it'll look good. Lol.

Anyway, you will want to put the dryer on the right, on the exterior wall, and vent it straight out. You can't put it all the way against the wall with no because the bifold door would block it slightly. You will have to leave about two and a half inches to get it in (and out for service).

The washer should go to the immediate left of the dryer.

Then you will have a hair more than thirty inches to the right of the washing machine.
sheloveslayouts
5 years ago
When you have a chance, please post a drawing of the bathroom and the rooms around it. We might be able to get the washer and dryer in there. Our washer and dryer is in the bathroom and it's quite handy ( there's a sorter in the laundry closet so it's convenient to put dirty clothes there.)
sheloveslayouts
5 years ago
For the washer and dryer in a peninsula, I was thinking it would look something like this:
Milly Rey
5 years ago
With bad shoulders, wrestling with an ironing board is out of the question. Instead, you can have this fitted behind a standard 10" medium drawer front of a 30" wide IKEA cabinet: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rev-A-Shelf-4-in-H-x-21-in-W-x-19-86-in-D-Vanity-Cabinet-Pull-Out-Ironing-Board-VIB-20CR/202855969?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CTHD%7CDigitalDecor%7Cgoogle%7CD29B+Housewares%7C_pkw__pmt__product_202855969&mid=eInVzhwSg%7Cdm_mtid_8903yuu57254_pcrid__pkw__pmt__product_202855969_slid_&gclid=CjwKCAjw64bPBRApEiwAJhG-fr8OGWCYe5kO3JhNUkr2Iik36yMdkffZllDUPlSBlY-JLogjym4JGRoCfbcQAvD_BwE

You can have small 5" drawer for stuff like clothes pins, a needle and thread, small stain removers, tennis balls for fluffing, whatever--and below that a 15" deep drawer for extra laundry detergent, fabric softener, whatever you use. A medium-small-large setup looks a little funk, but it's the best option if you're going to iron standing up.

Mid you want to iron sitting down, just flip the small drawer with the medium one. Of course, you don't HAVE to iron. And when you really need to, you could use an ironing cloth on the table. But when you need to iron, it's really nice to have a real ironing board.

The washer and dryer should be front loaders on pedestals. You can put the detergent, etc, currently in use on top of the 30" cabinet. The ceiling will be 8', of course, but anything above the door (6'8" or 80") will be a pain in the backside to use, like in any closet. Anyway, you can put wire closet shelves at 45" above the cabinet. Then one can go all the way across the top of the whole closet at 5', with a third at 6.5'. 16" deep is generally the deepest you can find, and that's fine because any deeper and the top shelf would be pretty useless.

Bulk toilet paper, paper towels, etc, will store very nicely here. :). It can also be an overflow pantry.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Benjesbride, you actually have to add extra space to that peninsula for plumbing and the dryer vent. You've got nearly half an additional foot you have to steal from somewhere.

Putting it in a cabinet in the kitchen will impact resale less than having it out visibly in the kitchen, but it will still hurt resale.

But yes, please post the bathroom layout, Joy!

I will draw up everything at some point...
sheloveslayouts
5 years ago
I tried to represent space for utilities in my drawing, but ikea planner is not really set up for such details.

For resale, the peninsula cabinet could be modified to just be counter height, I guess.
Milly Rey
5 years ago
I loathe the Ikea planner. It's so bossy.
PRO
Anglophilia
5 years ago
If you get European size washer and dryer, it will easily fit under a counter as that's what they do in the UK and Europe. And they don't cover them with doors! I'm afraid those doors might warp from moisture and heat when the units are in use. As long as they are kept clean, they will be fine showing.
Joy Wills
Original Author
5 years ago
So, its been a bad day today. I wasn't able to get all the measurements because I had trouble holding the tape measure. There is a closet in the bathroom, right behind the door.

As you enter the br the vanity, and toilet are on the right (dining room wall). on the left is the closet and tub/shower unit. the window and air vent are opposite the door.

The closet has interior measurements of 30" x 30". but the doorway is only 24. We are getting rid of the tub, if we stay and going with the lowest profile curb we can. If we stole a few inches from the shower area, would that give us enough for a combo unit?

There is a hall closet, behind the br closet, and my bedroom closet is behind the shower area, so we could steal some space from one or both of those.