'Close to genocide': San Juan mayor's dire appeal to US for relief

momj47(7A)

Of course, Mr. Trump is golfing this weekend.

'Close to genocide': San Juan mayor's dire appeal to US for Puerto Rico relief

The mayor of San Juan lashed out at Trump administration on Friday, decrying its relief effort in the wake of hurricanes Jose and Maria and saying if it doesn’t solve the logistics “what we we are going to see is something close to a genocide”.

“We are dying here,” Carmen Yulín Cruz said at a press conference, speaking with tears in her eyes. “I cannot fathom the thought that the greatest nation in the world cannot figure out the logistics for a small island of 100 miles by 35 miles. So, mayday we are in trouble.”

Cruz appealed directly to the president, saying: “So, Mr Trump, I am begging you to take charge and save lives. After all, that is one of the founding principles of the United States of … America. If not, the world will see how we are treated not as second-class citizens but as animals that can be disposed of. Enough is enough.”

The situation in Puerto Rico remains dire as residents face shortages of food, water and fuel. The electric grid was badly damaged by the two storms, leaving many without power and reliant on gas-powered generators. The hurricanes crippled the island’s already weakened waste and water treatment plants while fallen trees and strewn debris block roads and cellphone service remains limited.

In her conversation with reporters in San Juan on Friday afternoon, Cruz gestured to two large binders filled with paper and said: “Fema asks for documentation, I think we’ve given them enough documentation. They had the gall this morning … of asking me: ‘What are your priorities, mayor?’

“Well, where have you been? And I have been very respectful of the Fema employees. I have been patient but we have no time for patience anymore.

“They were up the task in Africa when Ebola came over. They were up to the task in Haiti [after the earthquake of 2010]. As they should be. Because when it comes to saving lives we are all part of one community of shared values.

“I will do what I never thought I was going to do: I am begging. I am begging anyone that can hear us to save us from dying. If anybody out there is listening to us, we are dying. And you are killing us with the inefficiency and bureaucracy.”

Continuing to cry, Cruz said: “I am done being polite, and I am done being politically correct. I am mad as hell because my people’s lives are at stake.

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j4c11

Other that bitching on TV and demanding someone else to solve her problem, what is she doing for her community?

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ubro(2a)

Other that bitching on TV and demanding someone else to solve her problem, what is she doing for her community?

OMG! I am at a loss for words.

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j4c11

Someone needs to slap her, literally. She's gone into hands up run in circles hysteria mode and that's not helping her community. If fema is asking her what her priorities are, she obviously hasn't communicated that. Nor does she seem like she has any clue. This is not the leadership her community needs during these times, and she should step down and let someone capable take over. I bet she talked a good political talk, but now that the sheet hit the fan it's clear she can't lead.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

How is the mayor supposed to assess damages with impassable roads, and no communication available to speak with other parts of the island.

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j4c11

How is the mayor supposed to assess damages with impassable roads, and no communication available to speak with other parts of the island.

Maybe get in a helicopter and survey the area instead of TV theatrics?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Is there an operating helicopter, and is there sufficient fuel? Are functioning helicopters be employed for other more pressing emergency operations?

The Feds should be offering help, not demanding what may be impossible to obtain assessments.

.

Why isn't the federal government using drones to survey the damage. If Italy can use drones to survey earthquake and flood damage, the US certainly should be capable of the same.

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bothell

J4: are you truly as heartless as your posts sound?

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chijim

The Trump response so reminds me of Pres Bush's Katrina

Just like Katrina, blame the ones there asking for help

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lily316

Let's hope this is Dotard's Katrina. Isn't he playing golf this weekend between 15 or more tweets about the NFL. This was last year's news yet very interestingly he brought it up in Alabama. Know why? The GOP sees their polls shrinking so they need some red meat. RACE, that'll do it for our core of old white racist men who love football. They are already sending out mailings requesting donations using this as an issue. TRUE. Let one of the RWingers here deny it.

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jodik_gw

Bothell, context of collective responses should more than give us our answer, I think.

~~~

Puerto Rico is an American territory, subject to the same disaster relief as the rest of our states when needed... not to mention simply being an island community of real live human beings that is in dire need of help!

Why isn't FEMA on scene collecting their own information and reviews?


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jlhug

How is the mayor supposed to assess damages with impassable roads, and no communication available to speak with other parts of the island.

The mayor is only responsible for San Juan, not the rest of the island. There are plenty of helicopters in Puerto Rico. If she was interested, I feel fairly certain that she would be given a seat on one that was surveying the damage from the air.

Sadly, she is starting to remind me of Ray Nagin.

What I find interesting how different the reports from the people on the ground are from the reports in the media. Maybe they are on two different islands.

I'm curious, how quickly should crews be able to replace 2,478 of transmission lines and 31,485 miles of distribution lines? Many of these lines run through heavily forested areas in the mountains in the interior of the island.

Source

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jlhug

Why isn't FEMA on scene collecting their own information and reviews?

FEMA is on scene and reporting their own information. I'm not sure that the media is reporting that info.

For those of you who aren't familiar with the geography of Puerto Rico, there are mountains with heavy forests in the middle of the island. Puerto Rico is home to the only rain forest in the United States. The some of the mountain roads are downright scary. DD's school trip in a school bus to some place (can't remember where we were going) was terrifying with the school bus hanging over the edge of the road. It isn't like Florida or Texas. It is an island with small towns located in somewhat remote areas that frequently only have one twisty mountain road in and out. IMO, it is more like Kodiak, another island where I spent many years, that either Florida or Texas.


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jlhug

Oh, yes, Trump's playing golf doesn't mean the rest of the government or the relief effort is out playing golf too. Out of the last 50 days, DH has had 4 days off and still working at 7 days a week, doing conference calls from home early in the morning and late at night. There are countless others who are doing the same.

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mayflowers

Being a PNWer, I have to correct you about Puerto Rico having the only rainforest in the US. The Hoh Rainforest is in Washington state. It's a temperate rainforest, so maybe you meant PR is the only tropical rainforest.

Carry on.

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jlhug

Sorry, Mayflowers. I should have written "tropical" rain forest.

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ronalawn82(z9FL)

momj47, the comment "Maybe get in a helicopter" recalled for me a story about a group of Hitler's soldiers - isolated and starving. They managed to get a message to him appealing for aid.

"Tighten belt!" was the Fuhrer's curt response.

"Send belt!" was the equally terse rejoinder.

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chase_gw

I cannot believe that some are attacking the Mayor nor how dismissive they are of the situation.


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Jmc101

Thank you, j4 and jlhug, for being the intelligence on this thread.

why isn't FEMA in Puerto Rico? Sheesh, even CNN and yahoo have reported that. Come on folks, use so e comprehension when you play your context games.

The San Juan mayor is trying any trick she can come up with.

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momj47(7A)

The Trump response so reminds me of Pres Bush's Katrina

Just like Katrina, blame the ones there asking for help

That's the way the Republicans do things.

I noticed that we aren't hearing anything from Republican "lawmakers", not even the ones in Florida, who are so close to Puerto Rico and know, personally, what's going on in Puerto Rico. Well, sort of, since none of them were actually there during the hurricane

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"The San Juan mayor is trying any trick she can come up with."

So, she is lying to say the situation is dire?

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jlhug

None of us were there during the hurricane nor are any of us in Puerto Rico now. All we have is the media which reports what makes great headlines and brings in viewers and readers. Wish I could share DH's insights but I have no credible source to verify his thoughts

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momj47(7A)

media which reports what makes great headlines and brings in viewers and readers.

So you think they are broadcasting reports and pictures of the destruction for the ratings?

I guess that's because we all know that Mr. Trump does EVERYTHING for the ratings.

Hard not to extrapolate?

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Media reports that show videos and interviews are likely to be factual, don't you think? Or do you think that the media is altering that content? Why would the mayor lie? What gain does it bring her?

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ann_t

J4: "This is not the leadership her community needs during these times, and she should step down and let someone capable take over. I bet she talked a good political talk, but now that the sheet hit the fan it's clear she can't lead."

Oh J4, this would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. You criticizing anyone's leadership abilities considering your support of DD.

Change the "her" to "his" and you could be describing Dementia Don since he came into office.

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chase_gw

jhug, even if all you say is so...and I don't think it is....they videos coming out of PR is clear. The people are in dire circumstances.

All along I have said that FEMA ia doing as best they can given the situation however the reaction from the Administration has been dismal ! That is the part which is so appalling.

To criticize this Mayor when your President spent all of last weekend tweeting about the NFL and said NOTHING about PR and when he finally speaks implies that he'll have to think hard about the rebuild given the financial state in PR. Now is hardly the time to do that !

Then there were those ridiculous comments from the head of HHS.

There is no defense of Trump...none. he is a weak leader who is totally self absorbed. There is only one reason anyone can defend him or even stay silent about his behaviour during this American tragedy and it's becasue they agree with his behaviour.

Thank God that is a minority of Americans

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jlhug

I think the media "picks and chooses" what they broadcast to show the aspects they want to show. They aren't interested in showing why the relief efforts appear to be inadequate. Poor communications between relief workers, poor communications between the small isolated towns, and a general lack of leadership(a problem since before we lived there) along with a small side of corruption are hampering the relief effort. The relief effort has been politicized to make Trump look bad.

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jlhug

Not a Trump supporter


Just because he isn't tweeting about the relief effort doesn't mean it stops or he isn't concerned about it.


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chase_gw

Trump makes himself look bad. He doesn't need the media.

The military should have been called in over a week ago and put in charge. They have the equipment, the skills, the experience and the discipline.

His job is to show leadership......

As far as I'm concerned what I see is desire to blame this on Puerto Rico just like so much was blamed on the Black community when Katrina hit.

ETA Jhug , he doesn't need to to Tweet about it but he sure as hell doesn't need to be tweeting about the NFL instead. He also needed to be out in front of the cameras, sending a public message of support...instead like you his words infer that the Puerto Ricans are somehow responsible for this.


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momj47(7A)

Just because he isn't tweeting about the relief effort doesn't mean it stops or he isn't concerned about it.

You do understand the Mr. Trump ISN'T doing anything. He has to be prodded and poked, pushed and shoved, to even pay attention, much less do anything.

Mr. Trump is obsessed with the fact that Puerto Rico has "a lot of debt". Given a chance, he would probably like to cut Puerto Rico loose and let it sink.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Do I think that Trump is personally responsible? No. Do I think he's being a good leader and inspiring others to get this fixed? No. Do I think he makes himself look worse by blaming the mayor and others? Yes.

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chase_gw

The American military managed to get aid to Haiti immediately after the earthquake and their infrastructure, leadership and corruption was every bit as bad or worse than Puerto Rico.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

The media can skew the narrative, even using pictures - such as when they keep showing the same week old pictures of flooded streets, insinuating that is the current condition. I agree the mayor of San Juan has gone overboard in her "genocide" accusations.


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momj47(7A)

Well we know where the RW forum members are getting their talking points and marching orders.

He was up early, too.

The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to Trump.

4:19 AM - 30 Sep 2017

*

...Such poor leadership ability by the Mayor of San Juan, and others in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help. They....

...want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort. 10,000 Federal workers now on Island doing a fantastic job.

7:29 AM - Sep 30, 2017


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chase_gw

Then there is this AM tweet from your illustrious leader. He just can't stand any sort of criticism.....this is NO time to attack the Mayor!


“The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days
ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to
Trump,” the president wrote at 7:19 am.

“…Such poor leadership ability by the Mayor of San Juan, and others
in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help.
They…….want everything to be done for them when it should be a community
effort. 10,000 Federal workers now on Island doing a fantastic job,” he continued in a series of tweets.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"told by Democrats"? Jeez.

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momj47(7A)

Delusional?

Are there monsters under his bed?

Is that why he doesn't sleep much?

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Kathy

The mayor is living and working from a shelter with other people whose homes were destroyed. Her house is flooded and she has lost everything in it. She has slept little and says frankly she is exhausted. Can’t he cut her a little slack? He took off for his golf resort again and he tweets critically of her? Sick!

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ann_t

The man is so thinned skinned he is transparent.

I have no idea how anyone can defend this poor excuse for a human being.


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Annie Deighnaugh

BTW, Hawaii also has tropical rain forests....

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The mayor of San Juan has the responsibility to publicize the dire circumstances on the island, and she is doing that. I find no fault in what she is doing. She would not be making her appeals if there were an adequate response.

.

I remember predictions that Trump's weaknesses would be glaring when disaster struck. We are there, and Puerto Rico is the victim.

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mayflowers

In the eyes of trump and his enablers, the mayor is a Democrat first and a human second.

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Annie Deighnaugh

j4c11, I suspect you are young and have led a fairly nice life. If so, as you age and as you suffer, you will grow a bigger heart and expand you empathy and compassion. As you gain experience, you will come to gratitude for the advantages you have that others have not enjoyed.

Of course, I don't know you...just my thoughts given your posts.

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Annie Deighnaugh

mayflowers, I suspect the administration sees her first as a nonwhite "PR", then as a democrat, then as a woman, and then maybe as a human...not sure they yet even see her as an American.

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Nothing Left to Say

Jhug you say just because Trump isn't tweeting about a subject doesn't mean he doesn't care about it

First, I think that's off the mark. I think that's pretty much exactly how we know what Trump cares about.

Second, take a look at this article last weekend Trump flew to one of his golf properties. He held not a single meeting where Puetro Rico was the topic of the meeting. And he and his staff failed to realize just how bad things were in PR until Monday morning, when the media reports made it obvious to them.


Even though local officials had said publicly as early as Sept. 20, the day of the storm, that the island was “destroyed,” the sense of urgency didn’t begin to penetrate the White House until Monday, when images of the utter destruction and desperation — and criticism of the administration’s response — began to appear on television, one senior administration official said


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lost-weekend-how-trumps-time-at-his-golf-club-hurt-the-response-to-maria/2017/09/29/ce92ed0a-a522-11e7-8c37-e1d99ad6aa22_story.html?utm_term=.a89fa210c8af

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ann_t

Annie I would like to think that you are right, but I don't think that age has anything to do with whether someone has compassion or empathy. Just look at many of the other repubs here on HT. Many are not young. And age did not bring them compassion or empathy.

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j4c11

The point is, the democrats and the media are trying very hard to pin this on Trump, to turn this into "Trump's Katrina", when the reality is the disaster is of great magnitude and everything that can be done is being done. But as we all know, liberals never shy away from trying to profit politically from death.

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chase_gw

...and how about those Tweets this AM from your illustrious leader? Trump doesn't need the democrats and the media to make him look bad. He does it very well all by himself

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j4c11

I basically posted the same thing at midnight last night that he tweeted this morning.

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momj47(7A)

The point is, the democrats and the media are trying very hard to pin this on Trump, to turn this into "Trump's Katrina",

No, but they are warning Mr. Trump that if he doesn't act, it will become "Trump's Katrina".

But it won't, since the citizens of Puerto Rico can't vote for President, and the RW supporters think Mr. Trump is just doing a great job.

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momj47(7A)

I basically posted the same thing at midnight last night that he tweeted this morning.

You must be so pleased to have discovered that Mr. Trump is reading your comments on HT and posting them on his Twitter feed.

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bothell

From NPR article today. "Stop tweeting and come help the people" said 8 year old Yan Anthony Hernandez who is at a shelter on NE coast of the island.

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leona_2008

j4c11, I suspect you are young and have led a fairly nice life. If so,
as you age and as you suffer, you will grow a bigger heart and expand
you empathy and compassion. As you gain experience, you will come to
gratitude for the advantages you have that others have not enjoyed.

Annie, I used to think that as a rule, people strived to become better people as they aged. Of course, that is true in some cases. Sadly, it is all too often, not true. trump is the ultimate example, followed by his supporters. In fact, it is disheartening and downright scary how much ugliness has been exposed. It's like trump put a few cells of hate virus into a petri dish, cultivated them and the virus went well, viral.

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leona_2008

I saw a comparison chart of the aid sent to Haiti vs. aid sent to Puerto Rico yesterday. Must have been on Nicole Wallace's show or mtp. Can't find it now. IIRC, 300 helicopters were sent to Haiti vs. 25 to PR.

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momj47(7A)

“They were up the task in Africa when Ebola came over. They were up to the task in Haiti [after the earthquake of 2010]. As they should be. Because when it comes to saving lives we are all part of one community of shared values.

“The Trump administration was slow off the mark,” said Rep. Darren Soto (D), the first Florida lawmaker of Puerto Rican descent elected to Congress. “. . . We’ve invaded small countries faster than we’ve been helping American citizens in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.”

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chase_gw

"I basically posted the same thing at midnight last night that he tweeted this morning."

...not surprised...but you are NOT the President of the United States

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SandyC.

This tweet about the mayor, from a loyal Trumpster and pizza gate conspiracy theorist, Mike Cernovich " She is garbage, she is a murderer, she failed her people and her duties and belongs in prison!"

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Annie Deighnaugh

...everything that can be done is being done...

This is simply not true.

We are talking about an island that's 100 mi by 30 mi. We have a port full of containers that can't be distributed as the roads are out, the truckers can't get to their trucks, and they can't get down the road with them anyway let alone fuel them. Why are they not doing a "Berlin airlift" to get the supplies to the places that need them?

Moreover, whatever response there's been, it's too late. trump didn't send the navy comfort ship until after hillary told him to and it takes 2 weeks for it to load up and get there. He didn't start mobilizing the military until 3 days ago even though the reports that PR would be out of power for months were coming in the day of the storm. They refused to suspend the jones act after maria despite requests to do so, though they did it right away for houston and miami.

This IS trump's katrina...only thing missing is a guy nicknamed brownie.

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chase_gw

Even if everything is being done is being done that does not excuse Trump's behaviour

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CindyMac(8b)

Oh the irony!

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leona_2008

What rotting pile of garbage did that vermin crawl out from under, SandyC?


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leona_2008

Not irony, CindyMac. Blatant hypocrisy at its worst. I cannot imagine people desperate for water and food not willing to unload a truck or distribute the aid.

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blfenton

And he tweeted that from the luxury of his golf resort where, by the way, the secret service have to pay for the golf carts that are used to protect trump.

It sounds like he is now disparaging CNN and MSNMB for their reporting of this disaster.

So he's criticizing the mayor of San Juan but the people of the US Virgin Islands are working hard

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
4h4 hours ago

I will be going to Puerto Rico on Tuesday with Melania. Will hopefully be able to stop at the U.S. Virgin Islands (people working hard).


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CindyMac(8b)

Leona, I'm referring to Trump and his inability to get Congress to do his bidding.

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Eliana

Of all the unbelievably ignorant posts made by trump's kool aid drinkers here on HT, this one takes to a new low. It has been rather easy so far to just see them as misguided simpletons, and while that still definately is the case, we can now add cruelty to their resumes. How do people like trump and his worshipers turn out to be such defective human beings? Nature or nuture?

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Marco Rubio has already visited the island & made public requests for stepping up disaster response by fed. govt.. He was not the only one either. This was before Mr. Trump reportedly decided to restrict travel to Puerto Rico by other Washington lawmakers. Thinking we all know how much of a fan of Sen. Rubio Mr. Trump is.

Yes this certainly has echoes of Katrina. Wasn't GWB on a vacation when that went down? & Condi Rice was shopping, IIRC...

I think it has become glaringly apparent to everyone but the most die-hard ideologues that our current commander in chief cares for nothing & nobody but himself & all the attention - positive or negative - that he can whip up.

And IMO, anyone who is reading anything else besides desperation for the people she serves in Mayor Cruz's pleas might be in need of a heart transplant!

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Ziemia(6a)

Time will soon tell us how fair criticism of 45 is on his response.

It is totally clear that 45's supporters want the changes he promised with his election - no matter the cost, no matter the downside. No matter the times he let's Americans down. He is a vehicle to make their vision for the USA a reality.

=================

You all who are criticizing the mayor - do you understand the phrase "looks like an atomic bomb went off, everything is devastated" (to paraphrase of Buchanan's comment on Friday on CNBC)

I have high confidence in the now on-site Lt. Gen Buchanan. Buchanan was appointed two days ago. That was Thursday. He arrived sometime Thursday. The change in the level of assistance changed with his arrival. He has a clear understanding of his mission.

================================

But, on Thursday, Cruz was probably told of this comment: "I am very satisfied," acting Homeland Security Secretary Elaine Duke told reporters outside the White House. "I know it's a hard storm to recover from but the amount of progress that's been made, and I really would appreciate any support that we get. I know it is really a good news story in terms of our ability to reach people and the limited number of deaths that have taken place in such a devastating hurricane."

  1. They have not really reached people by Thursday afternoon (I know it is really a good news story in terms of our ability to reach people)
  2. No one has any idea yet of how many people have died already (I know it is really a good news story in terms of ... the limited number of deaths that have taken place in such a devastating hurricane)

There was no one there that hadn't been hit by the devastation. She Mayor Cruz) has few if any assistants available to be her team.



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CindyMac(8b)

"Excuse me, Mr. President but your tantrum tweet storm this morning attacking the mayor of San Juan, a fellow American citizen dealing with a real-time life and death struggle for hundreds of thousands of her constituents on an island of millions in crisis, is not only far below the dignity of the office you hold. It fails even the most basic test of humanity.

Did she have harsh words for your Administration's response to the aftermath of Hurricane Maria? Yes. It's called a reality check, and one that conforms to every firsthand account coming out of Puerto Rico no matter how much you try to deflect with your "Fake News" epithets. To take this personally is to put ego before country. And you also blame the Puerto Ricans themselves? That they want "everything done for them"? No. They just expect to be treated as any other American would.

I have seen more than my share of wretched desperation over the course of my career. I have reported from crisis zones where matters of life and death hang moment to moment in the balance between action and inaction, where communication is limited, and the sense of panic is building. I have seen the most steadfast of leaders feel the crushing weight of responsibility as they survey a landscape of almost incomprehensible need.

It does not take a saintly amount of compassion or empathy to feel for those who are struggling to stay alive, who are worried for the fate of family and friends, and who have seen so much that they have known and loved blown and washed away. You swore to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States" and that means a responsibility to look out for all Americans, even if they live on an island in the ocean, or look different or even speak a different language than what you think is America.

I worry that whoever has your ear has not adequately impressed upon you the gravity of this situation, or even the political price you are likely to pay (although that can be no where near the top concern at the moment). Or perhaps you have been told and haven't listened.

Regardless, what Puerto Rico needs now is not rhetoric but help, not a bumbling response, but the precision and competence we expect of our government. I do not believe "blame the victim" is what Americans expect of their president."

--Dan Rather

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woodnymph2_gw

Cindy, thanks for posting this. Dan Rather nailed it. Trump is blaming the victim, as usual. And so we repeatedly are witness to his defect in empathy, his pathological narcissism, and sheer stupidity in a crisis. If this event does not make Trump "get it" then nothing on earth ever will....

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Also recently pointed out by someone who is actually on the island, is the fact that so many of the first responders & workers who would otherwise be aiding in relief efforts are themselves dealing w/ their own families in this crisis.

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labrea_gw

Top Trump responses to drowning person:


1. Swim better

2. You're fired

3. I'll sell you this life preserver for $1M

4. Lazy Puerto Rican


Preet I guess the media media made it all up ! Like they always do to annoy the right

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Kathy

Trump has introduced partisan politics into yet another issue by criticizing a Democratic Mayor. He is trying to convince his followers the only reason she is begging for help is to make him look bad. He said she was praising a few days ago but now is nasty. Could that be because a few days with no water and personnel to distribute supplies makes a big difference? She is on the ground doing everything she can with the help she has, while he was more interested in politicizing kneeling NFL players.

I don’t understand when they knew a Cat5 hurricane was approaching they didn’t have boats and helicopters loaded and ready to go.

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Eliana

I believe this defective wannabe dictator is totally unable to "get it". He is used to being in charge (real estate... game shows... whatever), where his underlings bowed to his every command. I don't think he had any idea what being POTUS meant, other than thinking he now could be boss of the world, and that no one anywhere would ever dare question his "wisdom" and wishes. Hah! Idiot!

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Joaniepoanie

Bravo Dan Rather!

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Trump's thin-skin has been mentioned more than once on this forum, but let us particularly note that he cannot stand to have a woman criticize him. He really goes bonkers when "she" suggests he isn't measuring up (whether it's Rosie or Megan or the female mayor of San Juan) and that is when he automatically shifts into insult mode.

Kate

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whynottryit

Joy Ann Reid for the Daily Beast

There He Goes Again: Trump’s Demented, Racist Saturday Morning Puerto Rico Tweetstorm

This time, King Joffrey attacks the mayor of San Juan as ungrateful. Oh, and Puerto Ricans are lazy too. Seriously.

JOY-ANN REID

09.30.17 11:25 AM ET

Keep in mind that nothing Donald Trump does is surprising anymore. He has lost the power to shock, even as he continues to appall. And yet, his early Saturday morning tweetstorm attacking the mayor of San Juan, Puerto Rico, Carmen Yulín Cruz, carved out a new low even for him.

It was, of course, predictable that criticism of the Trump administration’s pitifully inadequate response to Hurricane Maria by a woman – and a brown woman at that – would trigger our Joffrey Baratheon into a rage. Trump lacks impulse control on a good day, but can hardly contain himself when dressed down by a woman. Throw in his natural instincts on race, and you have the perfect Breitbart grievance cocktail. Perhaps Trump can offer it in a dirty glass at one of his tacky hotel bars.

Trump implied that the mayor, who just one day ago was on television literally pleading for aid for her stricken island, warning that without help, the story of Puerto Rico could be one of genocide, only stopped praising him because the Democratic Party told her to.

He implied that Puerto Ricans – American citizens all – are too lazy and dependent to help themselves, and “want everything to be done for them” by the federal government.

Fresh off his war with black professional athletes, in which he tried to impugn their patriotism and wrapped his repugnant self in the flag (five Vietnam deferments not withstanding) he tried to twist the San Juan mayor’s urgent pleas into an attack on the military and first responders. He then threw in a typically Trumpian attack on the media, implying that CNN and NBC too are attacking first responders and soldiers by criticizing Donald Trump. All that was missing was a grandiloquent statement that He Is The State, and the State Is Him, for an exquisite monarchical twist.

Not surprisingly, Trump’s attacks on Yulin Cruz echoed those of his most vile supporters from the white nationalist fever swamps, including Pizzagate’s Mike Cernovich, who the night before took to Twitter to denounce Yulín Cruz as “garbage” and a “murderer.” Trump’s attacks, dredging up trite racial stereotypes about supposed government dependency, echoed theirs, because at the end of the day, Donald Trump is them. Clearly, he so readily channels their rage and bigotry because he identifies with it.

It is obvious by now that Donald Trump will go down in history as our worst modern president. His response to Maria – it took more than a week to belatedly send the U.S.S. Comfort and a three-star general to lead the response – and his ready dismissal of its victims eclipses even George W. Bush’s meandering response to Katrina.

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chijim

Has Hannity/Fox News found the flooded parking lot in San Juan filled with school buses that the mayor could have used to help her citizens leave the island? ;-)

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woodnymph2_gw

"Joffrey Baratheon". Touche! Well, of course, it is all about Trump, and no one else. "L'etat, c'est moi!"

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Eliana

Yup! He has managed to make GWB seem like a capable POTUS! Scary!

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woodnymph2_gw

He has even trumped "Game of Thrones." Who needs to watch that fantasy when we have our own GOT reality show unfolding before our very eyes....



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ann_t

How is it possible that almost half of Americans are not aware that Puerto Ricans are US citizens? How can that be?


"Of Americans who know that Puerto Ricans are fellow citizens, 81 percent
support aid for the territory. In contrast, only 44 percent of
Americans who don't know Puerto Ricans are citizens supported aid."

Source.

Makes me wonder about some of our HT members.

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labrea_gw

doesmainstream media right his tweets for him then push the button

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sunflower_petal(5a)

He's just digging his own hole a little deeper with each tweet.

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momj47(7A)

How insecure, how messed up, how mentally ill must someone be to attack the mayor of San Juan Puerto Rico?

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elvis

loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

The media can skew the narrative, even using pictures - such as when they keep showing the same week old pictures of flooded streets, insinuating that is the current condition. I agree the mayor of San Juan has gone overboard in her "genocide" accusations.

Me too. Talk about not having the right stuff, the mayor is a powderpuff.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

Rather than there ever being any relief here from years of forum participants burdening it with what were eventually characterized as "stupid statements" those of us still looking at it are now to the point where somebody with a personality disorder has taken up residence in the Oval Office as well, has been producing barrages of like-minded material. So in other words these days it is coming from the top down, and is not limited to certain venues like Hot Topics where those generating it apparently think it will be welcomed, or otherwise suitable.

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j4c11

You all who are criticizing the mayor - do you understand the phrase "looks like an atomic bomb went off, everything is devastated" (to paraphrase of Buchanan's comment on Friday on CNBC)

You can't go into hysteria mode when you have to lead people out of a large scale disaster like this. No matter how bad it is. People look to her for solutions, calm and hope, not for the lunacy she was displaying. If she can't keep it together she needs to step down.

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Ziemia(6a)

I do recall one HT commenter repeating the complaint about Obama golfing when Louisiana flooded last August. Or, am I wrong in that recollection?

Was that complaint supported by others?

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roxanna(z5b MA)

ann_t -- that makes ME wonder about the state of our education system. and under DeVos it will never improve. the slippery slope has already turned into the downward slide of our nation, and the speed is increasing. how on earth are we to turn all this around???

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ann_t

Oh come on J4, you sound more hysterical than the Mayor.

There was nothing about the mayor's response that would make any normal person think she was hysterical.

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j4c11

The education system is full of liberals. Enough said.

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Ziemia(6a)

I forgot. I forgot that like 45, nearly all of his supporters (that I've heard or read comments from) do not understand empathy nor possess it.

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lily316

Probably most of the people who believe Puerto Ricans aren't American citizens are the ones who voted for the Dotard. Keep tweeting, orange man. I love it. Maybe you'll go overboard and delete them like you did about your Alabama endorsement ones but remember the tweets will never go away. They are being kept and will forever show history that you are the most stupid vain narcissistic clown to ever occupy the oval. I'd vote for the mayor of San Juan for our president over you, you amoral cretin who lacks one ounce of empathy.

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chase_gw

"Talk about not having the right stuff, the mayor is a powderpuff."

I have never been more disillusioned by some people on this forum as I am now....a powder puff? Do you have any idea what she is enduring, what her citizens are enduring, what she is seeing....a powder puff!!!! That is as callous a comment as your illustrious leader.

As usual the Trumplodytes don't get the real issue . Instead they deflect to some FOX talking points. FEMA is doing as best they can...Trump is the "f" up!!

The President of the United States is the one who is the flippin' powder puff !!! Sitting at his posh golf course criticizing the Mayor of San Juan because she wasn't NICE to him !!! Sending ZERO words of support and comfort to the people......you watch he will go Twitter crazy saying the media is now being mean to him too....powder puff in chief !!!

Trumplodytes....he is yours, you own him and he reflects your values......you deserve him but the rest of the country and the rest of the world do not!

Trump is right , he could shoot someone and his base would defend him.


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CindyMac(8b)

Meanom, Obama was on vacation on Martha's Vineyard when the 2016 August flood occurred. Gov. Edwards asked Obama to wait until we were out of the rescue phase to visit.


"Obama believes he can monitor the situation as well — or better — from where
he is. And that the sole reason to go to Louisiana is for the theatrical
piece of politics, a piece that he not only rejects but detests."


"Edwards, who greeted Obama when he landed Tuesday, had previously said
that he hoped the President would wait a few weeks before making his
visit to the state, given the entourage and Secret Service personnel
that comes with presidential trips that would have strained resources
while officials were coping with the flood."

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chase_gw

"The education system is full of liberals. Enough said."


Yes it would behoove more conservatives to avail themselves of it

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patriciae_gw(07)

When calm coherence doesn't do the job you have to start swearing at people to get their attention. If that doesn't work you cry. If that doesn't work you start throwing things.

Given the importance of waking up this administration, one hampered by a lack of leadership in just about every governmental department in that there isn't any one even in the job, and you have a president who golfs and tweets instead of directing and appointing what else do you do? You poke him in the eye with a sharp stick if you can get close enough. When he has felt enough personal pain maybe he will move just to help himself.

Calling this exhausted woman names and being dismissive of what she can do with no infrastructure, no staff, no food, no water, nor even a home to go to is school yard ugly.

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Ziemia(6a)

Thanks, CindyMac for the details.

I was thinking about some of our posters who were loud in their lambasting Obama for golfing during the beginning of the crises. And how that criticism of him was often repeated here.

I'm waiting for those that complained about ^^^ to add their voices to the complaint about 45's golfing days last week and this. (Not holding my breath).

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

school yard ugly

Supposedly Trump used to beat up other kids.

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Eliana

j4, read your own post above re. the mayor of SJ. Your are describing your hero, the nutcase in the WH!

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jodik_gw

Ann_t... from my viewpoint, age has nothing to do with compassion or empathy.

We sometimes hear human interest stories in the news... about little children willing to give the contents of their piggy banks to help people they hear about who really need that help.

And it didn't take my reaching a certain age to open my home for friends or family who needed a little support, either. It's simply how I was raised to treat my fellow human beings.

~~~

Wisdom sometimes comes with age. Although, I find that not to be quite as true as I once thought, either. I think some of the forum's content proves that.

~~~

Tweeting - using social media via cell phone - from the comfort of a golf course while American Territories beg for help in the aftermath of a devastating hurricane gives us a rather clear picture of how trump views the rest of the world. It sure looks like he could care less about anything... except tee time. The man is a despicable human being, an utter waste of space and oxygen, and I simply cannot fathom anyone trying to defend him or his words and actions.


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Olychick

"The San Juan mayor is trying any trick she can come up with." ^^^

What? A trick for what purpose? To get help for her city? What would tricking accomplish for her - fame? riches? Maybe water and food and medical supplies. Why should she have to resort to "tricks" as you believe she has done?

I can't believe that anyone would criticize her demeanor for trying to get help for her city, when she herself has lost everything, her life and city are in chaos and there is no other way to get help for them but to appeal to those outside the disaster. Gov't should be there in full force with help, food, shelter, medical aid, emergency supplies, etc without the mayor or anyone else having to beg for it.

This thread is really unbelievable in its heartless posts by a number of people.

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momj47(7A)

I have never been more disillusioned by some people on this forum as I am now..

It's very disturbing, isn't it.

The hate, the racism, the intolerance, the venom spewing from the RW is very discouraging too.

It reinforces my fear that the US may never recover from Mr. Trump.

We may actually become a third world country overrun by anarchy, chaos and lawlessness.

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Kathy

The mayor is wading in water waist deep to try to help citizens....while it is being touted as a good news story....I don’t blame her for losing it. She is doing everything physically and politically possible to save people. That is her job and I would put her response up against what Trump is doing any day.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Well, let's see how this could work. Say, here's my house:

So if I could find my car and if it has gas, maybe I can head down to the local home depot to buy some lumber to start to rebuild...even a temporary roof or something. Of course no power tools so maybe a hammer and some nails and a hand saw. So let's go:

Oh...that's too close to the water so let's try a more inland route:



Mind you I don't have any food or water or money or anything...and since there's no power, none of the credit cards will work. If my cell has any power 10 days into this disaster, there aren't any towers to run networks anyway so I can't call for help.

But go ahead, call me a weakling and complain that the mayor of san juan is just a whiner and she ought to get off her duff and do something. Do you suppose she could maybe pick up a telephone pole??? Or shovel some dirt into a roadway?? That ought to help....

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Annie Deighnaugh

So what am I doing all day if I can get to some kind of civilization? Standing in line.



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chase_gw

Powder puffs all of them!

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Kathy

Royal Caribbean picked up 1700 people on Wed and plans another trip for a total of 3000. Eta

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article175727231.html

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CindyMac(8b)

Hopefully, they'll be able to resettle in Florida.

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petra_gw

crl_

Jhug you say just because Trump isn't tweeting about a subject doesn't mean he doesn't care about it

First, I think that's off the mark. I think that's pretty much exactly how we know what Trump cares about.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly. Countless tweets about the evil, unpatriotic NFL kneelers, and not nearly as many about PR. Pretty obvious what's important to tRump. He also tweeted more about the unfairness of Iwanka's goods being dumped by stores than he has about the dire PR situation.

It's also disgusting that he would call for discussion on how much to spend on saving PR. He never once questioned costs for TX and Florida storm recovery.

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chase_gw

"Hopefully, they'll be able to resettle in Florida"


...and turn it Blue

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CindyMac(8b)

The majority voted for Hillary and Bernie ... so a very real possibility.

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elvis

j4, I agree with this:

You can't go into hysteria mode when you have to lead people out of a large scale disaster like this. No matter how bad it is. People look to her for solutions, calm and hope, not for the lunacy she was displaying. If she can't keep it together she needs to step down.

Mayor needs to put on her big girl pants and stop looking for someone to blame. She looks and sounds weak.

I don't agree with your posting this, however:

The education system is full of liberals. Enough said.

That is a given, what's the point?

meanom

I forgot. I forgot that like 45, nearly all of his supporters (that I've heard or read comments from) do not understand empathy nor possess it.

Don't be silly. The mayor is a basket case. If you can't take the heat...

patriciae_gw(07)

When calm coherence doesn't do the job you have to start swearing at people to get their attention. If that doesn't work you cry. If that doesn't work you start throwing things.

For pity's sake, don't run for mayor of anyplace.



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chase_gw

I started to respond but I decided against it.....I'm disgusted.

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lily316

I too am so disgusted by the R-wing-nutters here. For a day, I'd wish them all to be in the situation the PR residents are in and then see what you think of our leader, the orange man on the golf course, taking a break every five minutes to tweet about the NFL and the outrage of the kneelers. This is the latest talking point to raise money from the dim-witted among us who still support Dotard.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

RWers are devoid of empathy.

They will continue to support the president because he is just like them.

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Annie Deighnaugh

elvis you are so wrong. She has been calm and consistent, but guess what...that hasn't worked. As the situation grows more desperate, she needs to try everything she can to get as much help as she can. She needs people to listen and understand how critical the situation is so the government will do something. If she didn't try ranting and screaming and pleading then she isn't doing enough. Especially after calm and deliberate and following bureaucratic instructions didn't work.

I'm curious as to how you would react 10 days into a total disaster where people are desperate and dying, and the people charged with doing something are only giving you more paperwork to fill out while thousands of containers full of the critical supplies people need are sitting in ports with no way to transport them.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Well at 3,000 people a day on a cruise ship, it will only take nearly 3 years to get everyone off the island...

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Kathy

Yes Annie, it is a drop in the bucket. I think most of them were probably employees of Royal Caribbean.

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rhoder551 zone 9b-10

She's a woman and Donnie probably thinks she isn't attractive enough for a timely response.... And she is being very very demanding.

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purrmichigan(5)

FRE has such an abhorrence of strong feelings, unless: they're chanting brainlessly at a trump rally.



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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Ah, but who else is aware that the term 'deplorable' is now considered a point of pride by certain factions?

Example Here

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enegiram

I already predicted this would be Trump's Katrina....no gas, impassable roads, no food, no way to communicate, no electric power...and someone on the right has the cajones to say the mayor is just bitching and demanding someone else solve Puerto Rico's problem...how heartless can a human be? And where is Trump in all this mess...out playing golf...freaking unbelievable. Oh, and FEMA telling everyone they have to file claims electronically.


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don_socal

Perhaps NATO is conducting their own investigation of his shenanigans and will enforce the consequence what they find. That may give us a reprieve from this nightmare. Wonder what entity would have priority and if they could get the whole gang of misfits.

edit : Crimes against humanity

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Kathy

I just listened to the mayor plead again saying how hard would it be to drop a parachute with some supplies? I am beginning to love that woman....

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momj47(7A)

Will the US get another condemnation from the UN after this debacle?

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Kathy



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labrea_gw

Lot of Drunk on Cult 45 here!

Donnie already wears size extra gross doubt big pants are any solution just snotty condescending comment material that tactless throw around!

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labrea_gw

"Anyone - ANYONE - who excuses or justifies @POTUS's obscene tweets about Puerto Rico today is either a liar, a sociopath, of deep in Cult45."

kurt eichenwald Newsweek

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momj47(7A)

What's puzzling is why Mr. Trump is picking a fight. Now that he knows Puerto Rico is part of the United States he should be all over this. If he was showing compassion and mobilizing services, sending in supplies, and staff, and heavy equipment, he'd garner a lot of positive attention, something he desperately needs now.

While these things are probably still happening, his fight with Mayor Cruz overshadows anything good that Mr. Trump might possibly maybe do.

Mr. Trump is his own worst enemy at this point. And more people are looking at him with disgust.


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Kathy

Trump has to politicize every issue because it separates “his” people from the rest of the world. It validates him. He is now tweeting again that fake news failed to mention how much Strange went up after he endorsed him. The man is off his rocker...

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labrea_gw

"The federal gov. has handled Sandy worse than Katrina. There is no excuse why people don't have electricity or fuel yet."

So said Trump in 2012!


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labrea_gw

this is how pathetic the cultist loser is

He's still tweeting today that the candidate he supported in Alabama

"In analyzing the Alabama Primary race,FAKE NEWS always fails to mention that the candidate I endorsed went up MANY points after endorsement"


Really Whitney little brat! WhAAAAAAAAAA WHHHHAAAA!

hi sychophants are worse! Read the swill of deep trump psychosis!

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labrea_gw

"US reponse to Haiti earthquake, 2010:

2 days

8000 troops

To Puerto Rico post-Maria, 2017:

8 days

4400 troops


(Note: Both are islands)


One is filled with American Citzens being spoken to and about in the most demeaning fashion shame on all of you!


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momj47(7A)

Outbreaks Begin in Puerto Rico While Trump Tweets ‘Amazing Job’

While President Trump tweets about “poor leadership” in Puerto Rico, mayors and a top physician tell The Daily Beast the island faces deadly outbreaks of cholera and hepatitis unless the federal government surges help.

Ninety-five percent of the island is still without electricity more than a week after Hurricane Maria struck, including most hospitals. Only about half of the island’s 3.4 million population has drinking water. These two factors, plus unsanitary flood water inundating homes and towns, have created a public-health emergency.

“We are dying, and you are killing us with the inefficiency,” San Juan Mayor Yulin Cruz said in a news conference on Friday. “I am begging, begging anyone that can hear us, to save us from dying.”

Already an outbreak of conjunctivitis has infected 300 people in Loiza, a municipality 30 minutes from San Juan by car, according to Mayor Julia Navarro who drove to the capital for help.

"I'm here because there are still murky waters clogged on my streets and residents have been showing symptoms of Zika, Dengue and conjunctivitis virus," Navarro told The Daily Beast as she walked up the stairs to the Puerto Rican Convention Center, where the government has set up a command center.

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Kathy


This was tweeted by a man whose father lives in PR and has been working helping people .




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Kathy

Meantime....Trump has spent 70M in taxpayers money golfing....

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labrea_gw

"BREAKING US Army says 55% of "customers" (1.87m people) on Puerto Rico have no drinking water, up from 44% (1.5m) in the past four days."

Why are they just sitting around not making water are they lazy?

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Joaniepoanie


j4:

"You can't go into hysteria mode when you have to lead people out of a large scale disaster like this. No matter how bad it is. People look to him for solutions, calm and hope, not for the lunacy he is displaying. If he can't keep it together he needs to step down."

Yes, Trump should step down.



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mayflowers

And if he can't treat people with dignity and respect, like Lt. Gen. Silveria of the USAFA said, he needs to "GET OUT!"

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Annegriet

Trump is so egotistical that he can't even hide what a bigot he truly is. Using the suffering of American citizens to to advance his war on the media is disgusting. And, the NFL was all about riling up his base because donations were down. Altogether a vile and pathetic excuse for a leader.

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chase_gw

Trump had a terrible week last week and when it became apparent that he was going to take another hit on the situation in PR he had to lash out....had to in the sense he has no ability to control himself if he thinks people think he isn't a " winner"

He took serious heat over his NFL tweets last weekend. Monday saw him lose on the healthcare bill. Tuesday the candidate he backed in Alabama lost, Thursday the poop hit the fan re Price and Trump was embarrassed. Friday Price is forced to resign. Then this PR fiasco.......

Such a series of losses is enough to put him right over the edge........that's how mentally unstable this man is

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Annegriet

The NFL tweets were about getting his base all worked up because donations to the republican party were down. Nothing gets the base going like some good old flag waving. Too bad they don't want to wave the actual constitution which protects are right to free speech.

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purrmichigan(5)

Lin Manuel Miranda is totally p.o.'d. He said trump will go straight to hell, fastest golf cart he's ever been on.

I totally get it.

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ninamarie(4Ont.)

It's easy to blame Trump and he deserves it. But do not forget the party that put him in place by colluding with the Russians, through gerrymandering and outright lying. The Republicans own this.

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elaineinnj

She has the resources to have shirts and hats made. She is the one who needs to help, maybe she should attend the meetings that are beings held to figure out what has to be done. Trump is doing a great job to help, problem is that the media won't let the public know the truth.

22154621_1458872490835242_701488190837298544_n.jpg

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Annegriet

The truth? The truth is that #45 is a bigot. He doesn't care about brown people. Or, the free press. Or, our constitution. He's too busy playing golf. And colluding with Russians. So Cruz got one t-shirt and one hat--the woman is desperate for humanitarian aid. I'm sure she'd rather have electricity and bottled water. This is not who we are as a nation. We have been the most compassionate nation on the face of the earth for hundreds of year. Another American tradition gone.

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whynottryit

She has the resources to have shirts and hats made.

Maybe she knows Trump understands shirts and hats.






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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Poor big rich boy--so misunderstood and unappreciated.

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jlhug

I think that you are going to see more accurate reporting on the relief efforts in the near future. What the armchair quarterbacks seem to forget is how much more difficult it is to get supplies and people to the ISLAND and how to distribute things when the normal lines of distribution are broken.

A few stats may help you understand the problem. Puerto Rico is a group of islands totaling 3,420 square miles of land. The highest elevation on the island is Cerro do Punta measuring 4,390 feet high. If you have ever seen pictures of Arecibo Observatory, that is what the mountains look like. There are small villages scattered through the mountains and some pretty scary roads connecting them.

There are 3.4 million people living on the island. Before Maria, there were 2,400 miles of electric transmission lines (80% destroyed) and over 30,000 miles of electric distribution lines which are believed to be 100% destroyed.

Based on my experience of living in Puerto Rico and comments by honest locals, the governments tend to be inefficient with a tinge of corruption. (I have stories to back that up). Red lights are optional, especially at night. People frequently make left hand turns from the right shoulder of the road across four lanes of traffic. There are semi wild horses wandering around the suburbs. Stray dogs are a terrible problem at the beaches. We regularly found medical waste on the beaches. There is tremendous poverty just one step from that seen in third world nations. When we delivered food from food drives to families, there were houses that we were afraid to put the boxes down in the house because we were afraid the box would go through the floor of the house. The tourist areas are beautiful but, if you get very far away from them, the whole scene changes.

Despite living in poverty level conditions, the Puerto Rican people are some of the most generous I've ever met. They value family in a way that those of us in the states have lost. If you invite one family member to a party, the whole family comes. It is an amazing culture.

Please allow me to chat about the logistics of what some posters have suggested. If each of the 3.4 million people require 10 pounds of food, water, personal hygiene, cleaning supplies, etc a day, that totals 34 million pounds or 17,000 tons of supplies a day for the entire island. The US military's largest helicopter, the H-53, can carry an external load of something like 14.5 tons. It would take over 1000 trips in an CH-53 to supply the island for one day. The US military has less than 200 H-53 helicopters, a mix of CH-53s and MH-53s. Not all of them are in an "up" status on any given day and not all are available to be deployed to Puerto Rico. Any helicopter that is deployed to PR has a flight crew which is limited in the hours they can safely fly in a 24 hour period and a maintenance crew. The maintenance crew needs a place to maintain and repair the helos. Both crews need a place to sleep. And you don't want tired pilots flying supplies because you may have the "rescuers becoming the people needing to be rescued" scenario. Even with their blades folded, they take up a lot of space on a ship. A C5 (requires an 8,300 foot runway) can hold two of them if memory serves me. It would also be a great idea to have a lot of the appropriate type of av gas/jet fuel available in the quantities necessary. Using helicopters to supply the entire island would be a huge task.

The electric infrastructure was in poor condition when we lived there. Given the financial state of the power company in Puerto Rico, I don't think it has gotten any better. Even when we lived there 20 years ago, we would lose power for days at a time. Military housing now has generators, some are permanently installed and some are portable because the outages are so frequent. If Puerto Rico were accessible by land, there would be hundreds if not thousands of utility crews from surrounding states working on the downed power lines. Well, there are no bridges to Puerto Rico so help from the states has to arrive by boat. It takes time to arrange the transportation of those crews and their trucks. Once they get there, they have to have a place to sleep, gas for the trucks and the supplies to make repairs. The roads have to be cleared enough and the power line right of ways have to be clear enough to allow them to work. I'm certain that the Puerto Rico had the lift trucks and equipment required to set new power poles before Maria. I wonder how many of those vehicles were damaged by Maria. And then there is the matter of the supplies needed to replace the downed lines. How many spare power poles will it take to restore electricity? How many miles of electrical transmission or distribution lines will it take? I suspect that they weren't on the island before Maria. And, sadly, bringing that volume of materials to the island isn't instantaneous. I have no idea what 30,000 miles of electric distribution lines looks like while on reels or however it is delivered. Maybe someone here does. I'm sure someone will suggest supplying every home on the island with a generator. If you assume that there are 3 people in every home, that would be close to a million generators. Are there even a million generators ready to be shipped to Puerto Rico? If not, do manufacturers have the parts to build a million generators quickly? And how is the fuel to run the generators going to be distributed?

These are just two of the crisis facing the Puerto Rican people. Water is another issue. The water distribution system was in poor shape when we lived there. Water would be off with no warning for a couple of days at a time even 20 years ago because of distribution system failures. And I'm not going to mention sewers. I don't think that many people have an accurate impression of the immense amount of work that it going to take to "fix" Puerto Rico.

In the last six weeks, the US had been hit by a Cat 4 hurricane in Texas, a Cat 4 hurricane in Florida, Georgia and South Carolina and a Cat 5 hurricane in Puerto Rico. That doesn't include the wild fires in the Northwest, two major earthquakes in Mexico, responding to the damage by the first two hurricanes in other countries and other natural disasters. I suspect that the response to the first two hurricanes made a significant dent in the supplies available to respond to hurricanes by both the government and utilities.


Has the Trump administration's response been perfect? Absolutely not. But given the circumstances, it hasn't been nearly as horrible as the press would have you believe.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I did spend three years living in Puerto Rico - not vacationing but actually living (getting cars repaired, buying food, dealing with the government and police). And I do have an inside track on the issues dealing with the problems and challenges. DH and his coworkers are now on day 45 of working 10 to 12 hours with only 4 days off. I'm not complaining nor is he. I just want to make the point that there are big parts of the government that are working on the recovery effort despite what the media says. I don't even think the media has a good concept of the challenge of getting Puerto Rico back on its feet will be.

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leona_2008

I wish I could wiggle my nose and put trump in Cruz's shoes for one day. Just one day.

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Ziemia(6a)

Sure elaineinnj believe that narrative. Are you so hopeful that 45s promises come true that you believe anything?

You would never consider someone brought them to PR (someone part of the rescue) for her as an ironic statement?

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CindyMac(8b)

Such a series of losses is enough to put him right over the edge........that's how mentally unstable this man is


Which brings us to this morning and this:





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whynottryit

Jhug...thank you for that information. I think we can all understand the Herculean effort that the people on the ground there are making. I don't really have a huge problem with Trump playing golf, if he were staying out of people's way and letting them do what needs to be done. Or if he were encouraging the people of Puerto Rico and letting them know that help was coming and that everything possible was being done to restore their power. What I have a tremendous problem with is his unconscionable attitude toward those who are there and his (as usual) toddler's understanding of the actual problem. I mean we do all know that it's a "big ocean." The tweets he's made do nothing to help anyone but his own sense of self and are doing everything to create yet another division in the country. His continual "fake media, fake news" makes it really difficult for anyone to trust whatever we see or hear. To berate a group of citizens as being lazy because he can't empathize with their frustration is inexcusable. Additionally, I know that I can't help but compare what was done in Texas and Florida and how he is reacting to Puerto Rico. If I were the officials there, I would be petitioning Great Britain to take me into their commonwealth. Or maybe even Russia or China or any country that could find willing to help at this point.

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jlhug

You only see the public side of Trump aka tweets. There is much behind the scenes that you don't see or hear. Yes, I think someone should have taken his phone away from him a year or so ago. He is his own worst enemy.

I'm not a Trump supporter and never have been.

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chase_gw

Jhug, maybe maybe not. perhaps on the tweets re NK but the personal insult tweets are him being him just as he was on the campaign trail. They are as deep and well thought out as he is....

If Tillerson was not involved in those tweets re "Rocket Man "he should resign...by him I mean Tillerson although Trump resigning would be a dream come true.

Personally, I can't see Tillerson and Kelly being supportive of that type of tweet it makes it look like there is a huge disconnect in the Administration. Besides which is odd to think that trump wasn't aware of the back door negotiations.....

ETA Jhug maybe I read your post wrong.......

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jlhug

Chase, DH is in almost daily teleconferences with senior members of the administration. He mostly just listens and doesn't give me any details about what is said but general impressions. He's pretty blunt and honest.

I do think you read too much into my post. I think if someone took Trump's phone away, everyone's impression of him might be different. Right now the media focuses solely on the tweets to the point of being distracted from other important news. Personally, I think it is the media bias agains Trump that first encourages Trump to tweet because he likes the attention even though it is not flattering and second because the media has a liberal bias it thrives on making Trump look bad.

I'm still not a Trump supporter and never have been.

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mrskjun(9)

Turns out that her people are dying tee shirt stands for the sixteen people who have already been counted as dead since the storm weeks ago and so far, none since then. FEMA has a field office in San Juan. Mayors have been coming in for meetings to coordinate their needs. Guess which mayor hasn't set foot in that office. Trump needs to shut up. The mayor doesn't need any help showing herself as a partisan hack.

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whynottryit

Jlhug, at this point, being or not being a "Trump supporter" during the campaign is irrelevant to me. I am concerned with what he is doing now, with what I am seeing in him as he attempts to do the job he was elected to do. The things that I am seeing scare me spit-less. This latest "Rocket Man" tweet shows clearly how reckless and ridiculous he is when it comes to foreign policy. Maybe we do need a harder line with NK but it needs to be taken seriously, not as a joke by them. His lack of compassion and understanding appall me. He is a bit player on the world stage and is completely out of his element but is not willing to admit he needs help from truly intelligent people who know their business. Instead he surrounds himself with manipulators and puppets who pull his strings so he can pull those of others. It's scary enough in a business. It can be completely world-ending in the leader of the US. I know we have seen a lot of hyperbole when talking about DJT. I am not being hyperbolic.

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lilacinjust

The electric infrastructure was in poor condition when we lived there. Given the financial state of the power company in Puerto Rico, I don't think it has gotten any better.

^^^^^^

DH's family always kept the bathtub full of water to flush toilets since the electricity went out almost weekly.

Thank you for your detailed missive. Great information.

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lilacinjust

I don't even think the media has a good concept of the challenge of getting Puerto Rico back on its feet will be.

^^^^^

I agree and I truly wish they would stop driving the hysterical narrative for the sake of ratings.

The situation is dire and the task enormous, but adding "genocide" into the mix is plain reckless.

The mayor needs to get a hold of and comport herself for the sake of the citizens.

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jlhug

DH's family always kept the bathtub full of water to flush toilets since the electricity went out almost weekly.

We had recycled milk jugs full of water for flushing and lived the "if it is yellow, let it mellow; if it is brown, flush it down" way of life.

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chase_gw

The situation in PR is one thing, the actions of the mayor are another, the actions of FEMA another. I'm sure there is good and bad aspects to all and I don't doubt for a moment they are ALL doing as best they can in a very bad situation.

Then there is the reaction of Trump, his tweets and his response which are totally inappropriate.

As usual his supporters point fingers everywhere else and give him a pass. Totally different than when it was Obama , right Mrs. Do you recall what you had to say about him and the BP oil spill or the issues in LA last years? Obviously your standards have changed

.......and of course there is that liar General Honore...what would he know ?

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CindyMac(8b)

There is much behind the scenes that you don't see or hear.


Have a feeling that's even worse.

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whynottryit

Adding link to the two tweets Kathy posted ^^^^
People ARE dying

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CindyMac(8b)

I think if someone took Trump's phone away, everyone's impression of him might be different.

It's not just his tweets ... it's every time he opens his mouth.

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jlhug

I don't doubt that the San Juan has massive problems and does need help. I suspect that the rural areas have even larger problems simply because of the difficulty in physically accessing those areas if not more damage to structures because the poorer communities typically don't have the number of concrete houses that the large communities have. Based on what I know, almost the entire island needs something.

We lived in a poured concrete house that was build during the cold war in the northwest corner of the island. From what friends there have told us, the housing there is relatively undamaged for the most part with the exception of broken windows, some trees down, no water and no electricity.

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elaineinnj

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (Reuters) - Puerto Rico’s governor says efforts to restore cell service, gas and other basic needs to the island’s rural residents are progressing, even as many in those towns report feeling forgotten.

“I recognize that right now, whether it’s the gas line or the ATM line, we’re limited,” Governor Ricardo Rossello told Reuters in an interview on Saturday at the Puerto Rico Convention Center, the government’s temporary headquarters.

“But if you see the numbers,” he said, “you see there is a steady path to improvement.”

More than half of Puerto Rico’s 3.4 million people lack access to drinking water 11 days after Hurricane Maria hit the U.S. territory, and 95 percent remain without power, according to the U.S. Defense Department. Some are expected to be without power for months.

But on Saturday, Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) officials reported that a third of the island’s telecommunications network had been restored, and some 765 gas stations - well over half - had fuel, though it was not clear how much.

Maria, the most powerful storm to strike Puerto Rico in nearly 90 years, has destroyed roads, making it difficult to get food, water and fuel around the island.

In the rural towns of Salinas and Fajardo, the vast majority of locals reported having no cell service on Friday and Saturday, and said they had not seen local or federal officials in the area.

In Fajardo, some 400 people waited on line to enter a Wal-Mart store Saturday morning, while gas lines stretched more than a mile in some parts of town.

“We haven’t seen a government official or anything, no FEMA, no military, no local government,” said Daniel Santiago, 51, of Fajardo, as he waited in line to get into a food store.

Governor of Puerto Rico Ricardo Rossello attends a news conference days after Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, in San Juan, Puerto Rico September 30, 2017. REUTERS/Carlos Barria

Rossello, though, challenged the idea that the government is failing to reach rural towns - a perception he says might be fueled by a “severe limitation with communication.”

“I personally went to Salinas with seven National Guard trucks full of food and water,” he said, conceding that “you can always find somebody that hasn’t received resources, and I recognize that.”

Government response to the disaster has become a focal point in recent days, with U.S. President Donald Trump facing harsh criticism from many Puerto Ricans and leaders, including San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz, for failing to deploy U.S. military resources more quickly.

Trump fired back at Cruz in a tweet, accusing her of “poor leadership” and saying some Puerto Ricans “want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort.”

The tweet offended some Puerto Ricans, but Rossello refused to criticize the president.

“My only focus right now is to make sure the people of Puerto Rico are well,” Rossello said. “I’m not paying attention to social media.”

Pressed on the tweet, the governor said the president’s words were not aimed at Puerto Rican citizens. “When I read that tweet … I didn’t see it as assigned to the people of Puerto Rico, I saw it as a personal difference with the mayor of San Juan.”

With his island still in desperate need of financial and infrastructure aid, the governor faces a balancing act in remaining on good terms with Trump, even as many of his constituents oppose him. Trump will visit the island on Tuesday.

The governor has had his hands full since the storm, saying he slept just three hours - combined - in five days after Maria hit.


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Kathy

Why....I don’t know how you make a link like that...thank you...

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whynottryit

In the top right corner of a tweet is a drop down box. You can copy the link to the tweet there and then use the Houzz link to paste on page.

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SandyC.
This is a public health emergency.
Besides the Zika virus, patients are at risk for conjunctivitis, over 300 cases so far. Flood water is a combination of rain water and raw sewage.
People are at risk of cholera, hepatitis A, meningitis and salmonella.
In Haiti the death toll from cholera, outnumbered lives lost from the actual earthquake.
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jlhug

I am sorry that anyone died in Puerto Rico.

How many people died in the ICU and what caused their death? If they are the same people as in this story, there were two and the cause of their death hasn't been determined. So it may or may not be related to the disaster.

That one article is the only one that I can find about everyone in an ICU passing.

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lilacinjust

We had recycled milk jugs full of water for flushing and lived the "if it is yellow, let it mellow; if it is brown, flush it down" way of life.

^^^^^

As was walking up 6 flights of stairs!

We regret not going to PR-we recently talked about visiting, but it just didn't happen. Earlier this year, DH's brother took his family to see where they grew up, so they were lucky they got to see PR before Maria.

A friend has a house there (can't recall what area right now) and doesn't know what she'll find when she goes back-or when she'll go back. Fortunately, she also lives and has a home here.

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Ziemia(6a)

No matter what the conditions were before Maria, no matter the other disasters hitting other parts of the USA, the lag in approving or deciding the assistance was too long.

The public statements from the WH Administration were worse than tone-deaf. (Not thinking about 45, just other members of his team)

The on-site team NOW appears to be doing what they can. It took several (and too many) days to get to this point.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The issue is not that the individuals such as jlhug's husband are not working hard enough, but that there was a delay in executing orders to help the people of Puerto Rico, and not enough people ordered by DC to work on emergency efforts.

I can't get over the fact that US aid arrived in Haiti faster than in Puerto Rico. Plus an earthquake is an unpredictable event, but DC had advance knowledge that a hurricane was going to strike Puerto Rico. No excuses when so many lives are at stake.

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Joaniepoanie

Jlhug......thank you for your lengthy analysis. I must have missed it but it sounds like your DH works for FEMA or another disaster relief organization. As another poster mentioned, I'm very surprised there haven't been air drops all over the island of food, water and supplies.

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momj47(7A)

If Puerto Rico and the USVI recover in a timely manner, it will be DESPITE Mr. Trump's best efforts to humiliate and and demean the Mayor of San Juan the the American citizens of these islands., and cut the islands loose and let them die.

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elaineinnj

Another thing to consider, we also had to deal with the hurricanes in Texas and Florida around the same time, it could be a factor in not getting help to PR as fast as it was to get help to Haiti. There are ships at the harbor waiting to be unloaded but only 20% of the dock workers showed up to unload and distribute the supplies.

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jlhug

I know for sure that the USCG ship that arrived in Haiti right after the earthquake just happened to be in the area on a patrol. I suspect that is true for many of the other ships.

With Puerto Rico, the ships had to be hundreds of miles away so they didn't get caught in the hurricane. The Navy typically puts all the ships to sea when hurricanes threaten.

Joanie, I explained why the air drops are problematic due to the numbers of people, geography, the amount of aid needed, the need for fuel, places for crews to stay, and the carrying capacity of the planes. For an air drop to be successful, you need a good drop site. I'm not sure how many of the remote towns have a relatively flat clear place close to the people for the air drop. Think about the pictures you've seen of the houses clinging to hillsides and figure out what would be a good place to drop a pallet of supplies. Also, communications to some of those towns are limited at best and may be non existent. I'm guessing that the pilots hesitate to make an unannounced air drop out of fear of crushing people or someone grabbing all the goodies and hoarding them. There may be air drops taking place but they are not sufficient to feed everyone nor is the press reporting them.

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lilacinjust

elaineinnj

Another thing to consider, we also had to deal with the hurricanes in Texas and Florida around the same time, it could be a factor in not getting help to PR as fast as it was to get help to Haiti. There are ships at the harbor waiting to be unloaded but only 20% of the dock workers showed up to unload and distribute the supplies.

^^^^^

These multiple catastrophes are simply unprecedented, as are the logistics. Considering the extent to which our resources are stretched, I am amazed at how much is actually being done for PR, and hope they continue to get our full support now and for years to come.

People act like you can just float boats over and fly planes in at will.

It doesn't work like that.

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jlhug

Puerto Rico has had a referendum on statehood five times. Every time it has been rejected. There is a very vocal anti-statehood faction there.

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Ziemia(6a)

Jlhug... While you are not a 45 supporter you are close to being an "explainer". I also do understand the varied levels of development there and details about power distribution and clean and dirty water systems.

The assistance from the USA government horribly lagged. (I avoid drama so no hyperbolic words from me.) And while I hope the loss of life is being exaggerated I fear it won't be.

Serious question... Anyone know why it took so many days for the USS Comfort to set sail for its about 100 hour trip there? (It wasn't used in TX, FL, etc.)

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Eliana

Well mims, since you consider yourself such an expert on how it works, why don't you go back to PR and help your family and former neighbors?

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whynottryit

Is it possible that had DJT explained the situation with words other than it's an island in a big ocean that there would have been less concern over his own grasp of the situation? Is it possible there would have been less outrage had he not been so unfeeling in his comments about the Puerto Rican citizens and Mayor Cruz? Is it possible that we can condemn his actions and words without condemning those tireless workers and those who are giving their voices to engender support for PR regardless of Trump's petty tirades?

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jlhug

I have no problem being an explainer if it helps people understand the magnitude of the disaster and the reasons for the response being what it is. Those are facts.

One of the biggest fears initially was that the death toll was higher than was being reported because there was no way to communicate with some of the towns. No land lines, no cell phone and the roads were blocked. That is getting better slowly so hopefully there will be an accurate death toll soon.

It is my understanding (which may be wrong) that one of the reasons why it took a while for Comfort to get underway was to stock/refresh medical supplies and other supplies and get a full crew. I do know from personal experience that if the Navy tells a sailor they are deploying, they may have 24 hours to prepare if they are lucky. There may be other reasons. And I agree, it should have been deployed much earlier.

Elizabeth Rose, my DH is actively working in coordinating the relief effort and has been since before Harvey so I have a vague idea of what is happening there. He may be heading to Puerto Rico in a week or so.

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jlhug

Whynot, yes he could have used and may should have used other language. Sometimes using simple terms to describe a situation that is beyond most what any of us have experienced works and emphasizes the situation. Just curious, how would you have suggested that Trump describe Puerto Rico's location? It is an island in a big ocean about 1,000 miles as the crow files across ocean between Miami and Puerto Rico.

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chase_gw

Jhug, your DH and so many others are and have been doing yeomen's work in a very difficult situation. They are to be commended.

It is too bad your President feels it necessary to make it all about him thus deflecting from both the valiant efforts being put forth and the desperate plight of the people of PR .

Both are true , the aid workers are doing their damnedest AND the people are suffering greatly.



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jlhug

Is it possible that we can condemn his actions and words without condemning those tireless workers and those who are giving their voices to engender support for PR regardless of Trump's petty tirades?

Like it or not, Trump is the President of the US and the Commander in Chief. The rescue efforts belong to him. When you criticize the US response, you are criticizing the work of the people who work for Trump. When you say Trump isn't doing enough, the people who work for him take that as criticism that they aren't doing enough.

The response isn't perfect and there are many things that could be improved. Given the magnitude of the devastation, the previous hurricanes and the logistical nightmare, IMO they are doing a pretty good job. Of course, I will admit to a certain amount of bias.


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whynottryit

Jlhug, perhaps:

While we were able to reach Texas and Florida easily, Puerto Rico is going to be much more difficult. Crossing 1000 miles of water is going to be a logistical problem because the ships will not be able to get there as quickly as trucks could on the mainland. Helicopters will be helpful but not able to carry as much as trucks so many more trips will have to made in order to get supplies to PR. Also, the ports need workers and getting those people to the ports will be difficult due to the massive devastation of the already problematic infrastructure. But I do want to assure the people in Puerto Rico that we are moving as quickly as we can and doing everything within our power to get them the help they need.

Something along those lines maybe?

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whynottryit

When you criticize the US response, you are criticizing the work of the people who work for Trump.

No, I am criticizing Trump's tweets and the words out of his mouth when HE criticizes the people in Puerto Rico.

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lilacinjust

But I do want to assure the people in Puerto Rico that we are moving as quickly as we can and doing everything within our power to get them the help they need.

^^^

The FEMA director has given very detailed briefings about what Trump's administration is doing, and it is as VAST as it is challenging.

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momj47(7A)

Like it or not, Trump is the President of the US and the Commander in Chief. The rescue efforts belong to him

No, actually they don't. He will try and take credit for the success. The failures belong to him, though.

Most of the work is being done by NGO's.

FEMA and the Pentagon are acting independently, too. The actions they have taken, both before the storm hit and after have nothing to do with any "efforts" by Mr. Trump.

And FEMA, and the Pentagon are still staffed by men and women who have been working in these agencies through many administrations. They know what they are doing and they do it well.

If you recall, Mr. Trump didn't even know Puerto Rico was part of the United States until Monday. And he still hasn't authorized anything. So far, all he has done is waive the Jones Act and declared a State of Emergency in Puerto Rico.

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whynottryit

Jlhug, out of my curiosity, how far up/down the chain of command is your DH? The only people that I am criticizing is the ones that may have direct influence on DJT and his words/actions. If your husband does not have that access, then I have nothing but praise for those who are so diligently working to solve this problem in spite of their Commander-in-Chief.

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lilacinjust

No, actually they don't. He will try and take credit for the success. The failures belong to him, though.

^^^^

Well, at least they're not blaming Bush 43, so that's progress.

Baby steps.

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jodik_gw

I'm still too disgusted by some of the attitudes displayed to say anything polite or positive...

We had prior warning... and our govt. failed.

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jlhug

Lynn, I stand corrected on the outcome of the 2017 and 2012 statehood vote. I should have verified before posting.

Puerto Rico voted on statehood in 2017, 2012, 1998 (choices were statehood, free association, independence, commonwealth or none of the above. None of the above won). Wikipedia said there were five votes but I can't find out when the other two were.

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jlhug

While we were able to reach Texas and Florida easily, Puerto Rico is going to be much more difficult. Crossing 1000 miles of water is going to be a logistical problem because the ships will not be able to get there as quickly as trucks could on the mainland. Helicopters will be helpful but not able to carry as much as trucks so many more trips will have to made in order to get supplies to PR. Also, the ports need workers and getting those people to the ports will be difficult due to the massive devastation of the already problematic infrastructure. But I do want to assure the people in Puerto Rico that we are moving as quickly as we can and doing everything within our power to get them the help they need.

That would work if he wanted to go into details. I still have no problem with the island in a big ocean as an opening line. It describes the basic situation in a very few words.


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whynottryit

It describes the basic situation in a very few words.

Hurricane bad.

That describes the basic situation too, but not what I want to hear from the mouth of the man who is supposed to know what is going on.

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jlhug

DH sits in teleconferences with ranking members of the administration. I know that he was in some with Obama and Bush. If he has been in one with Trump, he hasn't mentioned it. He doesn't get to talk, just listen.

I did get to ride the ferry from Manhattan to Governor's Island with Trump years ago but I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express so that experience counts for nothing.

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lilacinjust

Blaming Puerto Rico's troubles on Trump and saying he failed is just more liberal gaslighting. PR is mostly just one rung above a third-world country, with extremely poor infrastructure, housing, bankruptcy, an 11% unemployment rate, and a declining population-just to name a few things- which highlight its vast brokenness and inefficiency.

This is NOT Texas and Florida, and YES, you bet it being an island has major impacts on a good day, let alone when their ship ports, airports and infrastructure are decimated.

It's unrealistic to expect that this wouldn't be a major challenge, particularly given that it is our third MAJOR natural disaster in a row.

It's simply unprecedented.

It's abundantly clear that liberals want Trump to fail, even if that means people suffer.

He's not failing. Some military could have been moved quicker, but you've got to be kidding to even suggest that relief efforts have been poor.

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lilacinjust

That would work if he wanted to go into details. I still have no problem with the island in a big ocean as an opening line. It describes the basic situation in a very few words.

^^^^^

It's just fake outrage. Best to ignore it.

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chase_gw

I don't think there is as much blaming Trump for the actual recovery as it is his attitude and tweets....but I know you don't get that given you got the memo on how to blame Puerto Rico. Not a lot different than Katrina in that regard.

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enegiram

"These multiple catastrophes are simply unprecedented, as are the logistics. "


Well it is unprecedented that we have a loud-mouthed, ignorant buffoon as POTUS, too.

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lilacinjust

Well it is unprecedented that we have a loud-mouthed, ignorant buffoon as POTUS, too.

^^^^^

Well that's helpful.

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lilacinjust

.but I know you don't get that given you got the memo on how to blame Puerto Rico.

^^^^

I know, how un-PC of me to lay out the FACTS. Sorry to offend ye SJWs.

Puerto Rico's voting rate in the statehood referendum was 23%. Compare that to 60% of voting-eligible Americans who voted in 2016.

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lilacinjust

Not a lot different than Katrina in that regard.

^^^^^^

Oh, please. Always with the race card. How facile.

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chase_gw

Really? Now why would you say that was a race card? I'm talking about how there was an effort to make it all the fault of the mayor and the poor people.

Interesting you assumed it was about race...


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momj47(7A)

It's abundantly clear that liberals ....

Painting with that broad brush?

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I'm still waiting for momj47 to provide her source that President Trump did not know Puerto Rico was part of US. I call that false.

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mrskjun(9)

No one wants to fail their fellow man when they are in such dire need. Everything that can be done is being done. I still find it amazing that the left would prefer the people of PR suffer just so they have something to vilify the president with.

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whynottryit

I still find it amazing that the left would prefer the people of PR suffer just so they have something to vilify the president with.

WTH??? I think if you had actually read the above statements all of the comments have been against DJT's tweets and his reckless words. If anything, the "left" wants to speed up the process of helping the people of PR because seeing them suffer is so agonizing. How do you even come up with such a ridiculous idea??

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Ziemia(6a)

June 2017 was the last vote on statehood.

23% of Puerto Ricans voted in the referendum, 97% of them for Statehood.

The governor still has plans to press the Administration on accepting the vote.

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lilacinjust

How do you even come up with such a ridiculous idea??


^^^^

Oh, please. The left's raison d'etre is Trump failing and being flung out of office.

If and when Trump succeeds, they lose.

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lilacinjust

momj47(7A)

It's abundantly clear that liberals ....

Painting with that broad brush?

^^^^

If the Birkenstock fits...

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whynottryit

Mimi, if Trump had started acting like a man of stature and reason, the left would have been mollified and adjusted. Instead, he has shown no evidence of a rationale mind and prefers to deal with world leaders in tweets that incite action antagonistic to the US. *throwing up my hands*

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momj47(7A)

I still find it amazing that the left would prefer the people of PR suffer just so they have something to vilify the president with.

Mr. Trump prefers that the citizens of Puerto Rico suffer and he is insulting them, calling them lazy, accusing them of spreading "fake news", insulting the Mayor of San Juan

His latest image, of Coast Guard helicopters "working in Puerto Rico" is a stock image of USCG helicopters.

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momj47(7A)

Do you wear Birkenstocks Mimi

How 1970's

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chase_gw

"I still find it amazing that the left would prefer the people of PR suffer just so they have something to vilify the president with."

That is so untrue Mrs.......and I know you know it. I'm a little shocked and more than a bit disappointed, that you feel Trump has handled this well AS President.

I can't believe you feel his behaviour, tweets, the optics are OK. ........not the Mrs I recall. Liked the old one better

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mrskjun(9)

1970"s, what planet do you live on?


Link

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mrskjun(9)

pshaw chase...if I had a nickel for every time you told me you had lost respect for me, I could retire again!

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lilacinjust

momj47(7A)

Do you wear Birkenstocks Mimi

How 1970's

^^^^^

No, but so what if I did?

Are we shoe shaming now?


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lilacinjust

mrskjun(9)

1970"s, what planet do you live on?

Link


^^^^

Nice! I might order a pair. My plantar fasciitis is kicking my rear end lately.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

jlhug, I still stand by my original statement that DC knew that Hurricane Maria would strike Puerto Rico, and failed to properly deploy resources for the devastation that they knew was coming.

If adequate actions had been taken, Republicans in Congress would not have made the statements they did regarding the delays in important decisions.

If there is a problem that "nobody else understands," then that falls squarely on the White House and its failure to properly use the communication means readily available to them.

.

The criticisms from the general in charge of the Katrina aid are especially damning.

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jlhug

His latest image, of Coast Guard helicopters "working in Puerto Rico" is a stock image of USCG helicopters.

Link please


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chase_gw

Mrs, actually don't think you could come up with a dollar.

You were so critical of President Obama, and equally critical of candidate Trump . Now that he is President you refuse to critize him for the same behaviours you were so critical of before he was elected.

Why ? Because now he is the President ?


But then why did that not stop you from being so critical of President Obama after he was elected President ?

Only you know

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mrskjun(9)

chase, I've already said that Trumps tweets were inappropriate. Would you be happy if I inserted that in every post I make?

And just for your info. I remain critical of Obama. Between him and Trump, the division in this country may never heal. Which doesn't mean I disagree with Trumps policies. I simply wish they had come with a better candidate. And that would have never been Hillary Clinton. But he is the president that I have, and I will support him on the things I agree with.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"I still stand by my original statement that DC knew that Hurricane Maria would strike Puerto Rico, and failed to properly deploy resources for the devastation that they knew was coming."

Absolutely, they had days of warning. It's not like this was an earthquake or a tornado.

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jlhug

jlhug, I still stand by my original statement that DC knew that Hurricane Maria would strike Puerto Rico, and failed to properly deploy resources for the devastation that they knew was coming.

Where should they have deployed the resources so they wouldn't be in harm's way? Don't forget some of them were still deployed to St Croix, St. Thomas, etc.

If the relief supplies were delivered to San Juan, where should they have stored them before Maria and how would they have been distributed to the outlying areas since the roads were closed due to trees and washouts?

Where should the ships have docked when the docks were closed?

Where should the planes have landed when the airports were closed?

Where should the planes have gotten fuel when there was no electricity to pump it?

I know there was at least one hangar at what used to be USAF Ramey that was stuffed full of planes and vehicles in advance.

Did you know that in St. Croix, someone stole the generator that was powering a cell phone tower? IMO, that is worse than looting. I hope they needed it to save someone's life and not just power their refrigerator.

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chase_gw

Mrs, Yes, I would like it if you voiced your displeasure with his inappropriate behavior every time he does it.

It will only be when Americans of good conscience let him know that his personal behaviour is unacceptable that things may change.

Please show me where you did that, especially as it relates to the crisis in PR.

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lilacinjust

Where should they have deployed the resources so they wouldn't be in harm's way?

^^^^^

Exactly! Ships go out to sea. Buildings which house people and goods got destroyed.

Why would personnel and very expensive supplies and resources be deployed into a Cat. 5 hurricane, to an ISLAND with extremely poor infrastructure and most buildings which can not withstand the wind, and whose power would be certainly gone?

It's not like Houston, where people and supplies could be stationed SAFELY as nearby as possible, until the danger was gone.

You don't put ships into the path of a hurricane! People DIE when that happens!

It's an ISLAND, folks! A small island that was completely covered with Maria, her winds and storm surges.

Again, people would rather cry about how this is Trump's Katrina (not even close, no matter how much they want him to fail!) than think through the logistics.

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CindyMac(8b)

That would work if he wanted to go into details. I still have no
problem with the island in a big ocean as an opening line. It
describes the basic situation in a very few words.


And why couldn't he make the effort to go into details? He is the president after all. Instead he tweets ... garbage.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)


Readying resources to be deployed @ a moment's notice might've been a good start.

Puerto Ricans just want everything done for them, don't they?



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lilacinjust

Readying resources to be deployed @ a moment's notice might've been a good start.

^^^^^^

Do you have ANY idea about how much of our resources we were using and deploying to at least 4 of our mainland states AND Caribbean islands after Harvey and Irma?

Do you think we have bottomless resources? We've been responding in a mostly timely fashion, except for some military ships which could have been deployed sooner.

That hardly makes this Trump's Katrina.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Funny how the military can launch invasions with many obstacles and under adverse conditions.

Lack of planning that should have been ordered from the moment that the administration knew of Hurricane Maria is the cause of the humanitarian crisis.

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jlhug

It is really easy to say what the government should have done from your comfy chair after the fact

Part of DH's job was to help plan for the response before any of the hurricanes hit. Please recognize that there are not an infinite number of planes, supplies and people. The military still has its normal missions to carry out. Yes, it can do them if it is short handed but it puts a strain on those already strained people and resources. Planes require regular maintenance based on hours flown. After the two previous hurricanes, some of the planes that may normally be available aren't because of needed maintenance due to the hours flown.

I do believe the Harvey/Irma/Jose/Maria quadfecta may be Trump's Katrina.

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Ziemia(6a)

**I do believe the Harvey/Irma/Jose/Maria quadfecta may be Trump's Katrina.**

Many Puerto Ricans will be moving to the States as PR gets rebuilt. There efforts to get them registered to vote will start soon. It *is* legal for them to vote when a resident of one of the 50 states.

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jlhug

Lack of planning that should have been ordered from the moment that the administration knew of Hurricane Maria is the cause of the humanitarian crisis.

BS! There was planning. Hours and hours of it.

Unless you expect a fish and loaves type of miracle, you only have so many people and planes available to respond to four major hurricanes in something like 27 days.

ETA: Maybe you missed that my DH and many others like him have been working 10 to 12 hour days six to seven days a week since mid August planning for and responding to hurricanes.

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Perhaps Trump could have used language that is above what a first-grader would understand. As for the death toll, I understand that people have been burying deceased family members in their back yards for fear of contamination from decaying bodies. It's not the sort of situation that many of us can imagine in our first-world lives.

If you'd like to read a scathing criticism of what has and has not been done in Puerto Rico, you might want to google General Honore's comments. He is the man who was extremely effective during Katrina in mobilizing military resources and said the same should have been done in PR immediately. I think the man knows whereof he speaks. This is the sort of thing that the military does extremely well, and his opinion in this instance is not at all complimentary. I believe he well understands the frustrations of Ms. Cruz.

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jlhug

It *is* legal for them to vote when a resident of one of the 50 states.

They will need to change their residency. They have to pay both Federal and possibly state income taxes as residents of any of the states. Most bona fide residents of Puerto Rico whose only source of income is from within Puerto Rico aren't required to file a US tax return or pay Federal income taxes. Their Puerto Rico based income isn't taxed by the US.

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whynottryit

I do believe the Harvey/Irma/Jose/Maria quadfecta may be Trump's Katrina.

Jlhug... I want to make this as clear as I possibly can. I have no doubt that everyone outside of the Oval Office is doing and has done everything they can possible in order to facilitate the reparations in Puerto Rico. DJT himself may have even signed orders to help with it but I have seen no evidence that he knew to initiate any of those orders and it took insistence from McCain and a few others to get him to waive the Jones Act. He has not taken the time nor effort to learn what he can or should do in situations like this or even what resources are available. He is wrapped up in his public persona and what he perceives he has to do to maintain that, thus, his tweets are antagonistic, demeaning and dangerous. THAT is what I am railing against. This man has taken being disengaged in government to an extreme. He prefers to "brand" people and actions. So now we have "lazy Puerto Ricans" and NFL players that should "get the hell off the field." Not to mention all the other cutsey names he has assigned to others. It scares me to say this but if this man remains in office for the full term, what we are seeing today will be forgotten or, at least, over shadowed by some more egregious action that we can't even imagine at this point.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Not enough planning, nor enough persons charged with planning, for the amount of lead time before Hurricane Maria reached Puerto Rico.

.

So interesting seeing partisans loudly proclaiming that there was soooo little time to prepare for a disaster that the administration knew was coming but they expected the US military to act like the local police department on the night of the surprise attacks on the CIA compounds in Benghazi.

Absurd!

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lilacinjust

Most bona fide residents of Puerto Rico whose only source of income is from within Puerto Rico aren't required to file a US tax return or pay Federal income taxes. Their Puerto Rico based income isn't taxed by the US.

^^^^^

Paying Federal taxes would flatten most PR'ans.

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chase_gw

.....and the veil drops

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Olychick

That pic of trump and his "staff" who do everything for him is startling in the diversity of people surrounding him. It's the closest he'll ever get...

So in contrast to every other picture of him surrounded by a swamp full of white guys.

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lilacinjust

but they expected the US military to act like the local police department on the night of the surprise attacks on the CIA compounds in Benghazi.

Absurd!


^^^^^

How many did Obama and Hillary ignore requests for increased security again?


"Prior fact check

In May 2014, ahead of one of the congressional investigations into the Benghazi attacks, U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., claimed the State Department "not only failed to honor repeated requests for additional security, but instead actually reduced security in Libya."

Our rating was True.

As we noted in that article:

"There are disagreements about whether State acted reasonably, but that it didn't honor requests for additional security is established fact," said Georgetown University adjunct assistant professor Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, who is also a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, which focuses on foreign policy and national security.

The State Department has acknowledged it rejected requests to provide more security personnel in Libya. It also acknowledged rejecting a request to erect guard towers at the Benghazi mission, but notes that a number of physical security upgrades, such as the installation of concrete barriers to block unused gates, were made during 2012.

The State Department’s own Accountability Review Board concluded that the number of diplomatic security staff in Benghazi in the months leading up to the attacks was inadequate "despite repeated requests" from the Benghazi mission and the embassy in Tripoli for additional staffing."

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/oct/07/paul-ryan/state-department-under-hillary-clinton-refused-sec/

See that rating?

TRUE

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lilacinjust

mimipadv

but they expected the US military to act like the local police department on the night of the surprise attacks on the CIA compounds in Benghazi.

Absurd!

^^^^^

Who would expect a PLANNED RADICAL ISLAMIC TERROR ATTACK on 9/11? In LIBYA? Of all places!

Surprise attack? That's just plain ignoring established FACTS.

Benghazi was not protected sufficiently and that is KNOWN.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Yes, surprise attack.

Heaven knows a compound chock full o' CIA agents, including agents under military cover, wouldn't know how to handle a dangerous situation.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"Paying Federal taxes would flatten most PR'ans."

Perhaps they would fall into the bracket of not paying anything if they don't have much income.

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jlhug

So interesting seeing partisans loudly proclaiming that there was soooo little time to prepare for a disaster that the administration knew was coming but they expected the US military to act like the local police department on the night of the surprise attacks on the CIA compounds in Benghazi.

Please enlighten me, who said there was "soo little time to prepare for a disaster"? TIA.

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jlhug

Perhaps they would fall into the bracket of not paying anything if they don't have much income.

They might even get thousands more back than they paid in Federal withholding.

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Olychick

Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.....

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lilacinjust

Olychick

Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.....

^^^^^

Yeah, why are you liberals always bringing up Benghazi?

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lilacinjust

Heaven knows a compound chock full o' CIA agents, including agents under military cover, wouldn't know how to handle a dangerous situation.

^^^^^

Oh, so now it's Americans' fault that they were killed by terrorists. Perhaps it was their parents' fault that Hillary Clinton lied to their faces and used their deceased loved ones' coffins for PR.

Oh, and it's their fault-well, maybe all Americans' faults-that Obama and his lackies went on national tv and lied their faces off about the not-a-terrorist-attack.

Got it.

o.m.g.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

jlhug, some of the too-little-time PR defenders at HT were the same ones who acted as if the US military was the cop on the beat, and would have saved the CIA compounds in Benghazi (scrambled from Sicily or the Horn of Africa) if only Hillary Clinton-Barack Obama had not ordered the military to stand down.

The usual Hot Top back flips against Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton from certain quarters, well known to regulars here.

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jlhug

I'm asking because I haven't seen anyone use "too little time" as an excuse for a poor disaster response. I was curious who had said that because it definitely isn't the case. I haven't read every single post here.


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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Mimi, the attacks happened in an area where there was a heavy CIA presence. (And the locals knew covert operations were being carried out from the compound.)

If the CIA had no idea that the attacks were coming, how could it be anything but a surprise! They certainly knew of the number of the militias in the area, and that a number were hostile to their presence in Benghazi.

The CIA was reckless, and too many people paid the price for DC's decision re Benghazi gun-running operations.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

jlhug, you claimed that it takes time to put military planes in proper order for PR aid operations even though there was plenty of advance warning that disaster was to strike the island.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I am, & have been, well aware of just how stretched resources were/are after 2 major hurricanes & the resulting disasters left in their wake. We are still dealing w/ the aftermath of Irma here.

I thought this was about our commander in chief diverting attention to NFL demonstrators & then picking a fight w/ the mayor of San Juan, not to mention all his other missteps (if that's the right word) in dealing w/ these crises, when he could've chosen to do something much more helpful.

Has he issued the orders to deploy the Puerto Rican nat'l guard yet? It's been 10 days...

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Ziemia(6a)

Disaster planning is probably an unending process. (My involvement in that was long ago.) Being ready to respond effectively does rely on skilled and dedicated people.

Disaster Response is a different 'critter'. Takes decision making and authorization.

(Really? Benghazi?)

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leona_2008

Nice! I might order a pair. My plantar fasciitis is kicking my rear end lately.

Mimi, I've heard Kalso Earth shoes are great for that.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

10 days without basic supplies! Awful!!

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lilacinjust

nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Mimi, the attacks happened in an area where there was a heavy CIA presence. (And the locals knew covert operations were being carried out from the compound.)

~~~~~

They asked for more security. They were denied.

End of story.

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lilacinjust

leona_2008

Nice! I might order a pair. My plantar fasciitis is kicking my rear end lately.

Mimi, I've heard Kalso Earth shoes are great for that.

^^^

Thank you. I'll take a look. I tried Dansko but they were like walking on concrete-zero flexibility. I was afraid I was going to fracture a metatarsal.

eta: now earth shoes are very '70's!!

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momj47(7A)

And don't forget Watergate and Richard Nixon

And the Teapot Dome Scandal

And the Iran Contra Scandal

The Army-McCarthy hearings

And the Whiskey Ring Scandal under Ulysses S. Grant. Grant was especially corrupt

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jlhug

Nancy, I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Airplanes require an inspection after a set number of hours (maybe100 hours) a of flight time and an annual inspection as well. A major overhaul is required after a set number of hours (maybe a 1000 hours) I understand those rules. Those rules are set by the FAA and to the best of my knowledge, the military must follow those rules. If an aircraft needs the inspection or maintenance then it is grounded until that is completed. Pilots are limited to the number of hours they can fly until they must rest for a set number of hours. That's another pretty hard and fast rule. DH would come home from a Search and Rescue case without finding someone simply because he had been flying for too many hours. You have no idea how hard that is on them but it is for the safety of the crew.

I did say that there was some delay in preparing Comfort because perishable supplies had to be loaded and extra crew members notified they were deploying. It takes 96 hours for Comfort to get underway. At least that is my understanding. I thought I made that clear. And, yes, Trump should have called for the Comfort to deploy earlier.

Comfort is a noncommissioned ship owned by the Navy. Her crew are members are civilians employed by the Military Sealift Command. Military doctors and staff (about 1,200) are on board when she is deployed. Those doctors are not permanently assigned to the Comfort but work in military clinics around the US. You can't take that number of doctors, nurses, corpsman, etc away from the military hospitals overnight nor can you take them from the local military medical facilities because that would cripple those facilities and prevent them from providing care.

Do not forget that there was also weather to consider. After leaving Puerto Rico, Maria headed north. I'm guessing that Comfort 's crew didn't want to end up at the bottom of the sea like El Faro did when they sailed into a hurricane.



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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The CIA compound was not the consulate annex, so no requests came from that quarter.

I repeat: The CIA did not ask the State Department for additional security.

If you think about it, State would NOT be supplying security for a covert operation. It's supposed to be a secret, no?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

jlhug, I understood what you wrote.

With the advance warning that Maria was coming, those regulations could be worked around with notifications to pilots, maintenance, etc. Why was this not ordered at the first possible moment?


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jlhug

Disaster planning is an ongoing process but each disaster presents a different set of challenges and problems.

A generic plan for a generic hurricane is a great starting place but the "devil is in the details".

Even with a plan in place, someone has to implement the plan and coordinate the the effort. You can't just say move ship A to place B because ship A may be involved somewhere else and the back up may be in the yard for repairs. Or you can't just say move 6 helicopters to place B. You have to figure out where 6 helicopters are that you can move without crippling the air station's ability to do it's job. Helicopters are complex machines and break so you can't leave an air station with a single or even two operating helicopters. Just like staffing the Comfort, you can't take all the doctors from one place. You have to figure out who has a spare. Actually, no one does so it really comes done to who has people to cover the long term absence of someone. It is a massive coordination of a bunch of moving parts in an ever changing location.

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momj47(7A)

Don't confuse them with facts, Nancy, that's just an exercise in futility.

If the facts don't agree with the lies, they'll disregard the facts.

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lilacinjust

I'm guessing that Comfort 's crew didn't want to end up at the bottom of the sea like El Faro did when they sailed into a hurricane.


^^^^^

El Faro! Thank you! I couldn't think of the name of that ship. How crazy what that?


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lilacinjust

jlhug, thank you for your postings. I am learning so much.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Did I miss it being mentioned? Last I heard, ports in Puerto Rico can only operate during daylight hours because no electricity for lighting @ night.

And this just in:

"As millions of Puerto Ricans continue to go without basic necessities like food, water and medicine, President Donald Trump is expected to attend the trophy ceremony for the Presidents Cup golf tournament on Sunday.

Trump will arrive to the tournament this afternoon and is expected to participate in the trophy presentation at 6 p.m. EST, according to the president’s public schedule provided by the White House Press Office. "

Seems he has his priorities straight....

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Kathy

More than 50% of the people are without water today up 10%.

eta....9 days after hurricane hit...

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jlhug

Nancy, a limited of pilots and aircraft were already in Puerto Rico. They were in a hanger at what used to be Ramey Air Force base. They may have been other places as well. More came afterwards. They had been notified and were just waiting for the storm to clear.

There aren't many helicopters that have a range of 1000 miles. The H-53s I mentioned earlier do have the capability of inflight refueling. There may be a couple of others but for the most part helicopters don't do midair refueling. Something about moving rotorblades and gas lines being a bad combination. Helicopters aren't the fastest planes in the sky. The easiest way to get them there is by ship or possibly inside a C5 if their blades fold. The H-53s I mentioned earlier do have the capability of inflight refueling. The ships

Again, they don't want to risk the lives of the crew or the aircraft by losing them in a hurricane so the ships stay off shore waiting for the weather to clear so the planes can fly to the island.


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lilacinjust

What is Trump supposed to do between now and when he's scheduled to visit?

How ridiculous to conflate Trump taking some time on a weekend to do something other than running the country, with doing nothing and not considering PR a priority.

Liberals are so used to Obama not being able to walk and chew gum at the same time that they think it's normal!

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momj47(7A)

Hurricane Maria struck Puerto Rico on Wednesday, Sept. 20

Mr. Trump didn't even know Puerto Rico was part of the United States until Monday, Sept. 25.

With the advance warning that Maria was coming, those regulations could be worked around

DHS refused to waive the Jones Act. And it was an "in your face" refusal, on Tuesday, Sept. 26.

Trump waived it, finally, on Thursday, Sept. 28, more than a week after the hurricane, and only for 10 days. It will be back in place next weekend.

That's hardly enough time for all the supplies and equipment to be shipped to Puerto Rico.

I did say that there was some delay in preparing Comfort because perishable supplies had to be loaded and extra crew members notified they were deploying.

The decision to deploy the Comfort wasn't made until Tuesday, Sept. 26, and the ship finally sailed on Friday afternoon, September 29.


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lilacinjust

Again, they don't want to risk the lives of the crew or the aircraft by losing them in a hurricane so the ships stay off shore waiting for the weather to clear so the planes can fly to the island.

^^^^^

The helpers can't help if they themselves need help or wind up dead.

I don't get what's so hard to get about this!

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Caree

'It is a massive coordination of a bunch of moving parts in an ever changing location.'

This seems like common sense to me. I simply do not understand the LW on hot topics.

The wild reckless accusations of genocide and racism is appalling and ignorant. It is racist.

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purrmichigan(5)

No one expects relief efforts while a hurricane is happening. 10 days and there are so many excuses for the tragedy after the hurricane. Add in trump's 'thoughts' online and he's started a war.

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lilacinjust

Add in trump's 'thoughts' online and he's started a war.

^^^^

With whom?

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don_socal

“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”


George Orwell,
1984

Some are stuck there.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I'm not speaking of aircraft in PR, but in the US.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Oh, how ridiculous,mimi. Don't compare El Faro to the Comfort. They are two entirely different vessels.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

None of the FEMA or military response could happen without Presidential approval. They got it. Implementation takes time. Jlhug, thank you for your patient explanations.

P.S. dropping fuel and water (The two most needed items) by parachute is catastrophic. They are using trucks, boats, and helicopters as we speak.

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whynottryit

mimipadv

Add in trump's 'thoughts' online and he's started a war.

^^^^

With whom?

North Korea.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I've heard Kalso Earth shoes are great for that.

If you ever see a pair of Men's Kalso Earth shoes in size 10.5, please let me know. They don't make the men's version anymore and the DH's are starting to fall apart and need to be replaced.

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purrmichigan(5)

trump seems to want to go to war - somewhere, anywhere. Since he can't, he'll put as much bluster out there so that every citizen of PR hates him.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

FWIW, stepson is currently sitting in a hotel in Louisiana waiting to leave for Puerto Rico to work on the cell towers. He's part of a crew that was recruited by a FEMA-contracted co. & left here days ago, but now they're just sitting there getting more & more frustrated.

& I just recalled someone on another forum, on Sep.21, questioning my saying that Puerto Rico was completely destroyed....

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jlhug

I'm a little confused. Yes the aircraft start out in the US. They don't conveniently break or need a 100 hour inspection only while they are in the US. Pre-deployment maintenance can be done but the requirements for inspections and the limit on pilots' hours don't change when they are deployed. You can bend the rules in a car because you can pull over There is no place to pull over when you are flying at 5,000 feet unless you are lucky enough to be over land with a reasonable place to land. That's why the inspections and maintenance is critical no matter where the plane is flying. It isn't the same as driving.

From the states, it takes time for the aircraft and crew to get to Puerto Rico. Fixed wing planes may be able to fly that far. Helos, generally, can't. They have to be either put on a ship (takes time) or put inside something like a C5 to be flown over.

Just a few of the things that complicate the relief effort that many people don't think about.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I think FEMA is doing a crappy job in Florida, and in no way are we destroyed like PR was. It took five years for Charlotte County to get reimbursed for their storm debris pick up after Hurricane Charley.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

FGS, start the inspections when the government first knows that a hurricane has PR in its path. Line up pilots as well.

These quibbling excuses are a distraction from the larger picture: Too little too late. This process could have started sooner, but it's only Puerto Rico. Just one more in a history of slights and slurs.


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momj47(7A)

the ships stay off shore waiting

What ships would those be?

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whynottryit

carolb_w_fl(zone 9/10)

& I just recalled someone on another forum, on Sep.21, questioning my saying that Puerto Rico was completely destroyed...

Trump Big Decision on Puerto Rico; PR destroyed by 2 hurricanes

President Trump on Friday declared that Puerto Rico has been “destroyed” and said “big decisions” lie ahead about how much to spend on rebuilding the U.S. territory.

His ominous tweet drew immediate criticism from Democratic politicians who said Trump is applying a different standard to the island than he did to Texas and Florida when they were recently struck by hurricanes.

ETA: Tweets have since been removed from DJT's account.

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lilacinjust

These quibbling excuses are a distraction from the larger picture: Too little too late

^^^

Yup, let's turn those ships around. Why spend our money when it's too late.

You just saved us MILLIONS!

Thank you!

(jlhug- you have to realize that Trump haters will NEVER be satisfied. Nothing is EVER good enough. They'd rather cut their nose off to spite their faces)

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ann_t

And dementia don lovers, will NEVER find something to criticize.

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momj47(7A)

you have to realize that Obama haters will NEVER be satisfied. Nothing is EVER good enough. They'd rather cut their nose off to spite their faces

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lilacinjust

momj47(7A)

you have to realize that Obama haters will NEVER be satisfied. Nothing is EVER good enough. They'd rather cut their nose off to spite their faces

^^^^^

Brilliant! Derivative, but brilliant.

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Ziemia(6a)

I am very satisfied with the orders that sent Lt Gen Buchanan.

(Not sure if I qualify as a Trump hater but I am horrified by his performance.)

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mrskjun(9)

carolb...are you questioning why the governor of Puerto Rico hasn't called up the National Guard like Rick Scott did in Florida even before the hurricane hit?


Link

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lilacinjust

The problem is that without longshoremen to unload ships and truck drivers to move cargo, the supplies arestuck where they are.

Around 9,500 containers carrying supplies remained stuck at the Port of San Juan on Thursday, while the island’s 3.4 million residents faced another day of food, fuel and water shortages, waiting in hours-long lines to buy basic items.

“When we say that we don’t have truck drivers, we mean that we have not been able to contact them,” [Gov. Ricardo] Rosselló said.

These are the logistical facts, combined with a very poorly-run country (no better than third-world for the most part) that liberals refuse to acknowledge as they decry how poorly Trump is handling PR.

This country can't be brought to 1st world status on a good day, but that doesn't stop liberals from tapping their toes and demanding Trump turn all the lights on immediately.

PR will be harder to fix by orders of magnitude compared to Texas and Florida, which are run like 1st world entities.

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CindyMac(8b)

I'm sure you'll agree it will mean so much to all the hurricane victims.




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jlhug

Nancy, the planes stay current on inspections and the pilots were ready to go as soon as the weather cleared. I don't think you can ask for much more.

Inspections can't be done "banked". Let's say a plane finishes its 100 hour inspection and goes via ship to Puerto Rico. It is flown for from sunrise to sunset for 14 hours a day. After 7 days of flying 14 hours a day, it will have flown for 98 hours and will need a 100 hour inspection soon. That inspection will have to be done in Puerto Rico. If one is nearing the required 1,000 hour inspection or annual inspection, I'm fairly certain that plane won't be taken to Puerto Rico or those were completed before they left the US. However, think about the above flying schedule of 14 hours a day for seven days. That plane would require a 1,000 inspection every 10 weeks.


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lilacinjust

"The struggle to activate National Guard troops comes as Puerto Rico grapples with devastation that U.S. officials have, repeatedly, called unprecedented while defending the federal government’s response. A growing number of critics have questioned why more U.S. forces were not deployed sooner. The storm cut a 60-mile wide swath across the island with Category-4 strength, knocking out the electrical grid and leaving people desperate for food, clean water and medical care.

Of the Puerto Rico Guard’s 8,000 members, some 2,750 are activated [my italics], said Kurt Rauschenberg, a National Guard Bureau spokesman. That number is growing by the day, but it illustrates a crucial difference in how states and territories responded to hurricanes this year.

In Florida, Gov. Rick Scott (R) activated all 7,000 members of the Florida National Guard before Hurricane Irma pummeled the state. In Texas, all 12,000 members were activated within two days of Hurricane Harvey coming ashore with Category-4 strength.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Helos have limited range...that's why god invented aircraft carriers. Norfolk isn't that far away.

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mrskjun(9)

I think everyone assumes that a ship can just be backed out of docking and sent on it's way. Usually when a ship is in port, maintenance is being done, much of the crew is on leave and they are restocking supplies. The Comfort ship when in port has a crew of 200. In order to be sent on site, there needs to be a crew including medical personnel of 800. Many supplies for a hospital ship would have to be replenished because of expiration dates of meds etc. SMH

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lilacinjust

mrskjun(9)

I think everyone assumes that a ship can just be backed out of docking and sent on it's way.

^^^^

Theres one poster here who has been giving painstaking explanations having direct knowledge of the processes, but clearly everyone else who hates Trump knows better.

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whynottryit

Mimi, I am not sure if I qualify as one of the ones "who hates Trump" but, if you do place me in that category, I would point out that I have not by any stretch of the imagination said anything that should be construed as my "know[ing] better." I have strenuously objected to Trump's tweets and his words but nothing about how the process should work. I believe we need to take great care in what we say about others to ensure accuracy.

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lilacinjust

whynottryit

Mimi, I am not sure if I qualify as one of the ones "who hates Trump" but

^^^^^

My impression from reading your posts is that you're not just here to hate on Trump ad nauseam. The haters know who they are.

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whynottryit

Thank you.

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lilacinjust

Puerto Rico aid is trapped in thousands of shipping containers

San Juan, Puerto Rico (CNN)A mountain of food, water and other vital supplies has arrived in Puerto Rico's main Port of San Juan.

But a shortage of truckers and the island's devastated infrastructure are making it tough to move aid to where it's needed most, officials say.

At least 10,000 containers of supplies -- including food, water and medicine -- were sitting Thursday at the San Juan port, said Jose Ayala, the Crowley shipping company's vice president in Puerto Rico.

On Thursday the White House authorized a 10-day waiver of the Jones Act, a federal law that limits shipping to US ports by foreign vessels. Puerto Rico's governor and other US officials had argued that a waiver would expedite supplies to the island.

But as Ayala has indicated, shipping companies already have aid and supplies either waiting at the port to be delivered -- or held up at ports on the US mainland.

Of the 3,000 containers that Crowley alone had sent to San Juan's port as of Wednesday, only 4% had been dispatched from there, Ayala said.

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momj47(7A)

Puerto Rico is almost out of fuel.

It won't matter how many truck drivers they have without fuel for the trucks.

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Eliana

What a tragic mess! This would never have gotten this bad under ANY other president, democrat or republican! This is what happens when a spoiled kid is sent in to do a grown-up's job!

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Puerto Rico is almost out of fuel.

It won't matter how many truck drivers they have without fuel for the trucks.

Or roads to drive on.

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Ziemia(6a)

The situation on the ground is now changing and generally improving daily. Any report from a few days ago is most likely no longer relevant. Last I heard drivers are trickling in. (The reports that show increasing numbers of people without potable water are most likely due to increased accuracy of the 'counts')

What will change are descriptions of conditions ---- changing because of the evaluation process by the Army Corps, FEMA, etc.

What won't change is the timetable of decision making.

============

mimip - you are still painting with your extraordinarily wide brush.

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momj47(7A)

Are they getting fuel? I saw a report yesterday that half the station were completely out.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Jlhug, I understand your repeated explanations re planes.

I see that maintenance would be a terrible problem if there were only one plane being used. But there are multiple planes available, no?

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mrskjun(9)

60% of the gas stations are up and running. 49% of supermarkets and big box stores are open for business. The electrical grid remains a problem because it takes seasoned linemen to do the work. The electric company is so corrupt that at times parts of the island could be without electricity for a week at a time with no storms. The lines and poles are rotten and unusable.

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lilacinjust

The lines and poles are rotten and unusable.

^^^^^

Obviously Trump's fault. If Obama were in office, those poles would be fresh and totally usable.

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chase_gw

Yup it's all the falult of those Puerto Ricans and the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has a right to chastise them, call them out and use hurtful language against THEM. ..THEM !!!

...ETA because they really aren't us

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leona_2008

If you ever see a pair of Men's Kalso Earth shoes in size 10.5, please
let me know. They don't make the men's version anymore and the DH's are
starting to fall apart and need to be replaced.

That stinks. I sure hope they don't stop making women's shoes. I wonder if they're still sold in other countries. Have you checked ebay? You can do a search and sign up to be notified when new listings are posted.

-------------------------------

Thank you. I'll take a look. I tried Dansko but they were like
walking on concrete-zero flexibility. I was afraid I was going to
fracture a metatarsal.

eta: now earth shoes are very '70's!!

Yes, they are. The Kalso's heel is slightly lower than the rest of the shoe. I don't have plantar fasciitis but they've made a world of difference for me. Hope you find relief soon.

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Ziemia(6a)

Yes, the fuel is being distributed though the last I heard it was still being rationed to the gas stations, etc.

And I'm seeing conflicting statements --- like the 60% of gas stations being operational and remaining very long lines for gasoline. I suppose both can be true.

And it's raining.

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labrea_gw

...people are now starting to recognize the amazing work that has been done by FEMA and our great Military. All buildings now inspected.....

So said Trump The Governor says it's not so!

Not so sure about FEMA after this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/09/18/fema-flood-maps-missed-claims-harvey-houston/amp/


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labrea_gw


Puerto Rico Gov Rosselló responds: "I’m not aware of such inspections." Some areas "really haven’t gotten contact."

Mnnnnnnn?

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Ziemia(6a)

Gov. Rossello may be focused on having a good relationship with the WH as the June 2017 election is waiting for some acknowledgment/ acceptance.

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Caree

What is it with the peanut gallery needing to degrade the efforts. They are doing the best they can in a very difficult, if not impossible situation.

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momj47(7A)

degrade the efforts.

What efforts would those be?

Tweeting?

Sashaying around the Rose Garden taking credit for the work of others?

Those efforts.

No one is degrading, we are pleading for more efforts.

Have you contacted your legislators to tell them to get their act together and get aid to Puerto Rico, or are you just sitting here on HT thinking Mr. Trump is "doing a heck of a job."

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lilacinjust

Caree (free man)

What is it with the peanut gallery needing to degrade the efforts.

^^^^^

Trump's every step has not been perfect, but he's been doing pretty damn well with 3 major natural catastrophes in a row. The Left is going to watch him like a hawk and lie in wait for him to take ONE wrong step, or delay a response ONE time, and that will be enough proof for them that they can bandy about "Trump's Katrina".

Far from it.

This is PR's Maria and while America and Trump are doing their best to help them out of the horrible and tragic sequelae, due to the poor state of the island, their needs far outweigh any REALISTIC demands to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

It would take a miracle to get PR up to 1st-world status on a good day, let alone after a near Cat. 5 hurricane.

Mostly, the Left is indeed degrading every single American and other who is sacrificing to help PR'ans recover.

I've read a lot of poo-poo'ing Trump and what he's done, but don't recall reading ONE act of personally helping PR recover.

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momj47(7A)

Trump's every step has not been perfect,

That's an understatement.

Everything Mr. Trump has done so far, he has done because of public shaming and outrage.

He didn't even know Puerto Rico was part of the United States until Monday, Sept. 25.

He didn't tweet about the damage or recovery in Puerto Rico until Sept. 25.

Hillary Clinton had to shame him to get the ship Comfort launched.

Legislators and the public had to shame him to get him to temporarily waive the Jones Act.

Keep the spin going, though, it seems to help you

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Obvious question, not that you will answer it, momj47, what could the President do of substance that he has not done?

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labrea_gw

"When White House homeland security adviser Tom Bossert returned from a trip to Puerto Rico last week, he got to work telling his colleagues exactly how the Trump administration could put a positive spin on the government’s troubled hurricane relief efforts, according to a leaked memo obtained by Axios.

“I hope to turn the corner on our public communications,” he wrote to White House staff, before detailing new, more-upbeat “themes” he’d like to see the administration highlight over the next couple of days. “Planned hits, tweets, tv bookings and other work will limit the need for reactionary efforts,” he wrote.

One of Bossert’s talking points for responding to criticism of the relief efforts: “The storm caused these problems, not our response to it.” Here’s a longer excerpt from the memo (and go over to Axios for the full report):"


as for Peanuts.... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE.... YOU GO FIRST SOME OF US posted over a week ago actually The Day NYC was making a collective effort to respond ,


STOP ATTACKING THE left weep weep your always attacking the left weep (SARCASM)

Cheap technique to deflect from comments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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labrea_gw

"........................what could the President do of substance that he has not done?"

stop tweeting CRAP!

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chase_gw

I've heard this guy talk and he is extremely bright and very well informed.

Too bad Trump had to totally blow his attempt at positive communications with his ridiculous and offensive tweets.

Bossert should have taken over his twitter account !


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momj47(7A)

Obvious question, not that you will answer it, momj47, what could the President do of substance that he has not done?

Started earlier. the hurricane struck on WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 20. 2017

He didn't even know Puerto Rico was part of the United States until Monday, Sept. 25.

He didn't tweet about the damage or recovery in Puerto Rico until Sept. 25.

Hillary Clinton had to shame him to get the ship Comfort launched, which finally happened on Friday, Sept. 29,

Legislators and the public had to shame him to get him to temporarily waive the Jones Act, on Thursday, Sept. 28.