Athletes under fire

ojo_sigo

Trump has attacked a number of athletes lately


There is something peculiar about those he condemns ????

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Ann

Gosh, I remember not liking Obama as president, but the stuff some of you are carrying around due to losing last November's election is phenomenal. What a way to live and to "hold onto" something that is now outside your control. I hope your day to day lives feel far more positive than what you portray on HT. Life can be short and to hold onto feelings like that for years, is really unhealthy.

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CindyMac(8b)

Ann, try again. That's gotten so old.

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momj47(7A)

but the stuff some of you are carrying around due to losing last November's election is phenomena

Not again. Will the RW ever get beyond that myth?

Of course not, for the RW, any lie will do.

The fact is, dearie, that Mr. Trump is attempting to silence Americans, take away our constitutional rights and protections.

Mr. Trump is marching us into WWIII

And you will come to understand this fact, but by then it will be too late.

Or maybe you never will, cocooned in your bubble

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Ann

Ann, try again. That's gotten so old.

Cindy, it has gotten sooooo old. But, we'll find out just how old in upcoming elections. Dems have absolutely nothing else to offer yet.

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SandyC.

Gosh, golly, gee, the far far right, racists didn't care for President Obama, no duh.......some even said Obama caused increased racism in the country.

Trump has given the nationalists a voice, he has emboldened those, who hid in the shadows to come forward, as we saw at his latest rally in Alabama.

Of all the players in the NBA, our racist, white supremacist president, has picked Steph Curry, the most beloved player in the NBA to disinvite to the WH, when Steph had declined the invitation.

Along with his fellow teammates, his coach, Kerr, is also not a fan of Trump.

Kerr's father was killed by terrorists and despises the way Trump scapegoated an entire religion to gin up his low information, bigoted and racist base.

We love everything Steph. He walks the walk of what a young, Christian, family man. He and his fellow players are role models in our community. He stands up for his fellow man, and is speaking out about institutional and judicial racial inequities in our country.

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momj47(7A)

Dems have absolutely nothing else to offer yet.

How would you know?

Did Fox Entertainment tell you that?

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ann_t

"Ann, try again. That's gotten so old."

And so pathetic. That is the best she can do.

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chase_gw

Trump supporters must hold on to the lie that the attitudes of most Americans towards Trump are based on the fact they "lost" the election .The real reason , his atrocious behaviour , lies, bullying, divisive language and dangerous language is something they can't credibly argue against with with any credibility.

So......they go with the easy one

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SandyC.

A statement in our Sunday headlines from the Warriors

" While we intended to meet as a team at the first opportunity we had this morning to collaboratively discuss a potential visit to the WH, we accept that President Trump has made it clear that we are not invited. We believe there is nothing more American than our citizens having the right to express themselves freely on matters important to them. We're disappointed that we did not have an opportunity during this process to share our views or have open dialogue on issues impacting our communities that we felt were important to raise.

In lieu of a visit to the WH we have decided that we'll constuctively use our trip to the nation's capital in February to celebrate equality, diversity and inclusion- the values that we embrace as an organization."

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

It is puzzling, isn't it? I keep seeing the talking point (here & elsewhere) that Mr. Trump is just being attacked, & attacked unfairly - as though he has done nothing wrong.

Really?

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Poor wuddle donald, he should write that book "My Struggle"

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Nothing Left to Say

Nothing about this topic has anything to do with the past. It is the present. No matter who you voted for. Trying to drag that baggage into present day because you can't even understand that the President of the United States has no need of the First Amendment because he IS the government.

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CindyMac(8b)

Love the solidarity being shown today!


Trump can go to you-know-where.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Maybe we don't need to reaffirm our devout patriotism by solemnly singing The Anacreontic Song before every sporting event.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Latest development:

"Pittsburgh Steelers will not come onto field for anthem

The Pittsburgh Steelers are sidestepping Sunday’s burgeoning anthem controversyentirely by staying in the locker room during the national anthem.

Speaking to the NFL on CBS’s Jamie Erdahl, Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin made his team’s perspective clear:

“It’s about us remaining solid,” he said. “We’re not going to be divided by anything said … We’re not going to let divisive times or divisive individuals affect our agenda.”

Tomlin stressed that this was not a matter of disrespecting the anthem or the ideals it represents, but rather of remaining solid as a team in a pursuit of a single goal." (SOURCE)

-----------------------------------------------------

Good move for the Steelers!

Kate

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Nothing Left to Say

Owner of the Jaguars:

It was a privilege to stand on the sidelines with the Jacksonville Jaguars today for the playing of the U.S. national anthem at Wembley Stadium. I met with our team captains prior to the game to express my support for them, all NFL players and the league following the divisive and contentious remarks made by President Trump, and was honored to be arm in arm with them, their teammates and our coaches during our anthem. Our team and the National Football League reflects our nation, with diversity coming in many forms – race, faith, our views and our goals. We have a lot of work to do, and we can do it, but the comments by the President make it harder. That’s why it was important for us, and personally for me, to show the world that even if we may differ at times, we can and should be united in the effort to become better as people and a nation.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/trump-nfl-protests-latest-updates/index.html

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chase_gw

Tomlin's message was a strong one. He went on to say the Steelers did not want to put their players in the position of having to take a side.

Several owners have come out strongly against what Trump said including his best buddy Kraft. Khan stood with his players.....Khan had donated $ 1 M to Trump's inaugural.

It's quite remarkable the number prominent Americans who have decided to distance themselves from Trump. Even Tom Brady denounced his remarks.

Life after Pennsylvania will be lonely for Trump...........but I'm sure he and Melania will be AOK socializing with whatever supporters he may have left.....who needs 5th Ave and Mar-a-Largo !

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Hey, these teams are cheating! They're scoring points before the game starts.

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elvis

Frankly, getting down on their knees for the national anthem makes them appear respectful, even worshipful of the anthem. Worldwide opinion of what that action is meant to symbolize is probably quite disparate from the message intended.

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Ann

I sure don't love anyone disrespecting the flag of their country. In fact, I really can't stand it. So incredibly weird to me.

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whynottryit

Many have made much of the President's own right to free speech in defense of his comments about the NFL. In my view, that is irrelevant to the issue. As far as I am aware, the President of the United States does not have any right, power or reason for interfering with the hiring and firing practices of a private business. This is the legal argument against his comment. Of course, the fact that he has completely ignored the actual reason for the protest is police brutality rather than any disdain or disrespect for the US flag or national anthem is typical of his habit of twisting an issue to fit his narrative. Consumers can register their discontent with the protesters by not attending or turning off their televisions or on social media. Having the President demand the protesters be fired or suspended is a threat to their livelihood and should not be tolerated by any American who believes in the concepts upon which this country was founded.

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whynottryit

Ann

I sure don't love anyone disrespecting the flag of their country. In fact, I really can't stand it. So incredibly weird to me.

Thank you, Ann. You made much of my above point for me. This protest has nothing to do with disrespecting the flag or the national anthem. It's about police brutality.

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CindyMac(8b)

I sure don't love anyone disrespecting the majority of Americans. In fact, I really can't stand it.

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CindyMac(8b)

Try again Donnie.

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Ann

Liberals on HT are so strange to me. It all feels so incredibly un-American and unpatriotic. I wish those who want to disrespect their own country would move to somewhere more to their liking so they can stand proudly and have the most powerful feeling imaginable when they stand before the flag of the country. Didn't some of you have fathers, uncles, grandfathers, and brothers who fought and died for this country they loved? Do those and those who defend our country today have no significance to you? It's the flag of our country and our national anthem!

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

They did not die for a piece of fabric or a song.


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CindyMac(8b)

Ann, have you read the comments from many vets?

Take a look:

https://twitter.com/votevets

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chase_gw

Ann, they are not disrespecting the flag. It is so unfortunate that you, and others, don't understand that this really has nothing to do with the flag...nothing.

Now Trump has made it about something else altogether. He, as President, has promoted the notion of restricting first ammendment rights...... now he has galvanized a huge group against him once again.

Why Trump would deiberetley stoke this fire on Friday is nothing more than him throwing red meat to his supporters in Alabama.

His performance during the hurricaines and then his reaching out to Dems on DACA gave him some much needed upward momentum...then he goes to Alabama and blows it apart with incredibly devisive comments.

Watch the numbers tumble again....


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Updates:

"Pittsburgh Steeler comes out for national anthem

Pittsburgh offensive lineman Alejandro Villanueva, a former US Army captain and ex-Ranger, was the only Steeler who appeared during the national anthem at the start of the Bears-Steelers game Sunday afternoon. Villanueva stood in the tunnel with his hand over his heart as the anthem played."

------------------------------------------------

"Lots of kneeling, absences during national anthem

Some players from several teams -- including the Denver Broncos, Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns -- took a knee during the national anthem at their 1 p.m. ET games. Members of the Atlanta Falcons and Detroit Lions had their arms locked. And in Chicago, all Pittsburgh Steelers except one stayed inside their locker room during the national anthem."

-------------------------

"New Orleans Saints: Trump's comments 'disappointing and inappropriate'

The NFL's New Orleans Saints and the NBA's New Orleans Pelicans released a joint statement expressing dismay at President Trump's remarks, noting that Tom Benson -- the owner of both teams -- is a military veteran himself.

"Our organization takes great pride in equality and inclusion and find the comments made by the President disappointing and inappropriate relative to our players on this issue," the statement read.

"Tom Benson served in the military and continues to this day to support all military branches and feels strongly that we honor those men and women who defend our freedoms and our freedom of speech. He also believes that the very players that represent the Saints and Pelicans organizations should be allowed to express their feelings."

-----------------------------------------------

So there, Donald--you are not king or god!

Kate

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Ann

I haven't followed which teams are doing which today, but my 40 year old son just called to say how very, very disappointed he is in the Denver Broncos. Our family has been season ticket holders since the Broncos began and our son is the one who has those tickets now. I wonder if he'll decide to give up the tickets after over 50 years of tremendous family support for our team.

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chase_gw

Ann there is something really wrong when "patriotism" is a requirement no matter what......that's how the NK's feel !!!

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Claire

The flag represents the Constitution of th US and the freedom to protest peacefully. Why dont Trump or his followers want to acknowledge that fact?

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ann_t

"I sure don't love anyone disrespecting the flag of their
country. In fact, I really can't stand it. So incredibly weird to me."

And I can't stand hypocrites and racists.

Cindy, you don't actually expect someone like her to read comments that don't support what she believes do you?

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chase_gw

Ann if he decides to give them up........someone will be thrilled to pick them up !!!

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CindyMac(8b)

Ann, give 'em up. It's a violent game. Save some lives.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Amazing how much a person will give up to support r@cism.

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ojo_sigo

It may be of interest for people to know that it is NOT the flag or the anthem that is being protested and the real reason maybe why Trump is so offended.

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Ann

I just said to my husband, "I bet the Dems are losing some future votes today.". I think disrespecting one's own country is the losing side of the coin. Freedom of speech is valuable, but just like elections have consequences, so do one's words and actions. Carry on libs!

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ann_t

Oh yeah, I'm sure he is going to give up his tickets. NOT!!

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Funny how 45 never "disrespects the country".

not by condemning citizens' free speech

not by attacking our Free Press

not by supporting white supremacists

not by colluding with russia

not by ignoring our constitution

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CindyMac(8b)

Trump disrespects this country every single day!

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mayflowers

From my post upthread:

“Whatever happens today, please be mindful and open to understanding the why,” George Atallah, the union’s assistant executive director of external affairs, wrote on Twitter.

Ann, you and your son should be trying to figure out the why instead of criticizing the players, coaches, and team owners.

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chase_gw

Ann, they are not disrespecting their country......but your guy surely did Friday when he.....as the head of your government ....decided that the government has the right to supress free speech.

He IS the government and he has the duty to UPHOLD the constitutional right to free speech.......not impede it .

Please stop and think, put your political views aside, put your personal views aside.

Is it appropriate for the President of the United Statea to impede free speech? Is that what he was elected to do?

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CindyMac(8b)



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momj47(7A)

I think disrespecting one's own country is the losing side of the coin

It seems to be for Mr. Trump

He seems to have unleashed something he can't control or stop.

Redskins cornerback Josh Norman on Fox Sports: ‘It’s about the person behind the podium’

“I feel like what we’re doing, it’s not about the flag, you know?” Norman continued during the interview. “It’s not about protesting or demonstration of the flag. We love the flag and the country that we’re in. It’s about the person that’s behind the podium, like let’s be honest.”


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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Were there not disrespect towards prevailing power, the American revolution would never have occurred, the civil rights movement would have been still born.

.

A very wise suggestion from George Attalah: Why is there such widespread negative reaction to Trump's comments?

No divide and conquer this time!

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leona_2008

They did not die for a piece of fabric or a song.

Nor did they die so a racist, wannabe dictator could try to erode our rights, destroy our government and start a nuclear war.


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paprikash

Trump is not a racist or a dictator. He is not eroding any of our rights or destroying our wonderful USA. He is not starting a nuclear war - he is finally addressing the N Korea situation which Obama ignored for 8 years in BHO's typical kick the can down the road philosophy. He is trying to do a job he was elected to do in spite of "resistance". You all are just mimicking the democratic talking points and think by repeating white supremacist enough the naive will believe you. Trump, before he surprised everyone and beat HRC, was never called the vile names the childish snowflakes are calling him now.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The WW2 soldiers in the European theater of operations fought fascists and nazis. Now we have a president who cannot unequivocally condemn fascists and nazis without contradicting his statement the next day.

Now that is disrespect!

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momj47(7A)

Trump is not a racist

Yes, Mr. Trump IS racist

Trump's Long History of Racism

The racist comments of Donald Trump

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labrea_gw








(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—

(1)

takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or

(2)

influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.

(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—

(1)

a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;

(2)

an employee of either House of Congress; or

(3)

the President, Vice President, an employee of the United States Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee (as such term is defined under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code).

(Added Pub. L. 110–81, title I, § 102(a), Sept. 14, 2007, 121 Stat. 739; amended Pub. L. 112–105, § 18(a), Apr. 4, 2012, 126 Stat. 304.)

Amendments

2012—Pub. L. 112–105 inserted “or an officer or employee of the legislative or executive branch” after “Congress” in section catchline, designated existing provisions as subsec. (a), substituted “a covered government person” for “a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress or an employee of either House of Congress” in introductory provisions, and added subsec. (b).

Effective Date

Pub. L. 110–81, title I, § 105(b), Sept. 14, 2007, 121 Stat. 741, provided that:

“The amendments made by section 102 [enacting this section] shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act [Sept. 14, 2007].”

Construction

Pub. L. 110–81, title I, § 102(b), Sept. 14, 2007, 121 Stat. 739, provided that:

“Nothing in section 227 of title 18, United States Code, as added by this section, shall be construed to create any inference with respect to whether the activity described in section 227 of title 18, United States Code, was a criminal or civil offense before the enactment of this Act [Sept. 14, 2007], including under section 201(b), 201(c), any of sections 203 through 209, or section 872, of title 18, United States Code.”


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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Donald Trump has discriminated against African Americans in the past to the point that the federal government had to step in to guarantee equal treatment. Currently has made racist and bigoted statements against African Americans, Mexicans, and Muslims.

For some the jury is still out whether Trump is deeply prejudiced,


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Nothing Left to Say

I have been here calling out Trump's disrespect for our Constitution from the beginning. It's not a talking point. He does it all the time. Look at how he treats judges. The press. The First Amendment.

There's no oath to the flag. The oath is to the Consitution. And my very-not-liberal FIL who served 26 years in the Air Force who was far from thrilled with Kaepernick's protest is now furious with Trump's attempts to quash the free speech he fought to preserve. (I guess this is the upside, because he is now very interested in the actual why of the protest since Trump has started trying to quash it.)


This is not about liberal or conservative. This is about whether or not you actually support the fundamentals of our country. If you don't like free speech, feel free to not exercise yours.

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studio10001

It seems that there are different ideas about what patriotism means. I remember when 45 promised to uphold the constitution and laws of our country. He has instead repeatedly attempted to undermine federal investigations. He promised to unite the country, yet has thus proven to be the most divisive president of my lifetime, at least. He has threatened to erase a nation, has renigged or threatened to renig on our promises to the world, has alienated our allies and our own people.

The actions of our nation's leader should be the crux of a discussion on patriotism, to my mind.

Instead, we are playing 'look at the bird' again over a Christian who bent his knee in silent and legal protest.

Perhaps it is time to evaluate what patriotism really means. Which of these men is talking the talk, and which is walking the walk?

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ann_t

Anyone that believes that Dementia Don is not a racist is either not very smart or in total denial Or maybe both.

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mrskjun(9)

"The Ellis Island Medals of Honor embody the spirit of America in their celebration of patriotism, tolerance, brotherhood and diversity. They recognize individuals who have made it their mission to share with those less fortunate their wealth of knowledge, indomitable courage, boundless compassion, unique talents and selfless generosity; all while maintaining the traditions of their ethnic heritage as they uphold the ideals and spirit of America. As always, NECO remains dedicated to the maintenance and restoration of America’s greatest symbol of its immigrant history, Ellis Island."

Guess who received this award in 1986, along with Rosa Parks and Mohammed Ali?

Liberals have gone beyond being upset that they lost the election. They have ranted and raved since Nov. and they still lost. And guess what. All the vicious name calling, all the nasty race baiting, all the protests and resistance are not going to change the outcome of the election. You are losers who act like losers. Petty little people who thrive on pettiness.

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chase_gw

Trump has pettiness cornered...

Like I said , when you can't defend you fall back on it being about the election loss.

It's not about the loss ...it's about the win.

The man is unfit for the job he holds and the truth will out

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momj47(7A)

Guess who received this award

Bill and Hillary Clinton

Richard Nixon

Gerald Ford

Jacqueline Kennedy

Ronald Reagan

Joe Biden

Jimmy Carter

John McCain

Roger Ailes

George H.W. Bush

Jimmy Carter

Yogi Berra

Kathie Lee Gifford

And several many, many more

Here's the list of notable winners

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CindyMac(8b)



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Ann

Is it any wonder why the number of Dem seats has been dropping precipitously in recent years? Not to me. You've got free speech (and you should) and you have chosen to use it to the serious detriment of your own party. And, since November, you've chosen to double down again and again. You only see one another and don't even recognize the Americans that love our country - and there are many of us.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Americans that love our country are opposing the president.

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Jane

I don’t see the players’ actions as disrespectful at all. They are not talking during the national anthem, they are not walking around or interfering with others’ choice to observe it as they wish. They are making a silent statement with the intent of making the country better, safer, more unified, more respectful, and reinforcing our rights. What they are not doing is kissing up to a disrespectful president. I feel safer knowing there are people who will not conform to the whims of one person in power who does not demonstrate respect for all.

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chase_gw

It is beyond insulting and quite frankly un_ American to state that only people who agree with this President love their country.

If that is what you believe you should move to NK where blind allegiance to the Supreme Leader is demanded

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mrskjun(9)

These people died for what that flag and anthem stand for. Do you think they would like a chance to stand for it now?



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labrea_gw


The idiot thought people locking arms meant they were on his side?????? derr



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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Congratulations to so-called conservatives for making this about the flag & patriotism, rather than what it IS really about, which is the fact that a significant number of US citizens are being killed &/or maimed & abused by law enforcement and to date there has been little to no penalty for what are essentially murders by police of unarmed people who committed either minor infractions or no crime @ all.

I understand Mr. Kaepernick had knelt for the anthem a number of times w/ little notice before R-wing media got hold of the story & made him into a scapegoat.

And congratulations to Mr. Trump for elevating the issue so that many more people are now choosing to side w/ Mr. Kaepernick.

Those siding w/ Kaepernick are aware of the true meaning behind his respectful demonstration. Those against choose to either sidestep it or are ignorant of it, I'm guessing.

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Ann

Denver Broncos, Derek Wolfe:

I stand because I respect the men who died in real battles so I have the freedom to battle on the field. Paying tribute to the men and women who have given their lives for our freedom is why I stand. But everyone these days likes to find a reason to protest and that's their right. It's America and you are free to speak your mind. I just feel it's disrespectful to the ones who sacrificed their lives and it's the wrong platform. But like I said to each their own it's AMERICA! The greatest country in the world and if you don't think we are the greatest country in the world and you reside here, then why do you stay? A lot worse places in the world to call home. Proud to be an American.



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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Hypocrisy much?

But everyone these days likes to find a reason to protest and that's their right...


if you don't think we are the greatest country in the world and you reside here, then why do you stay?


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ojo_sigo

The man who was so shockingly elected to be POTUS has created chaos in healthcare, has stirred up a hornets nest with his Muslim Ban, has enabled violence among white supremacists, has endangered the planet with his global warming denial and an ever increasing litany of horrors but laughably Mrs Kjun insists that none of this is relevant or responsible for the massive resistance to him and his administration - they are upset that they lost the election.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

From Snopes (emphasis is mine): Trump was one of 80 individuals to receive the Ellis Island Medal of Honor in 1986,
the first year that the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations
handed out the award. However, the fact that Donald Trump received the
award and posed for a photograph says little about his motivations or
whether or not he has racist tendencies, only that he received an award
and participated in a ceremony meant to honor him (and others).

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was similarly honored with the Ellis Island Medal of Honor in 1999.

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ojo_sigo

Paying tribute to the men and women who have given their lives for our freedom is why I stand.

This is not what the protest is about

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CindyMac(8b)

laughably Mrs Kjun insists that none of this is relevant or responsible for the massive resistance to him and his administration - they are upset that they lost the election.


You can add all the Trump supporters here to the list. That's all they have. They can't defend the man, because there is no defense ... so they deflect. It's the same old song & dance ... repeated ad nauseam.

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labrea_gw


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momj47(7A)



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momj47(7A)



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azmom

""Ann, try again. That's gotten so old."

Yep, Not a full deck.

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momj47(7A)

Yep, Not a full deck

I think the deck is rotten, and may soon collapse

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ann_t

Dry rot.

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patriciae_gw(07)

My DH tells me that neither team (Seahawks vs Titans) came out of their locker rooms for the anthem today. Interesting. The person who sang the anthem and her accompanist both knelt.

My DH told me this morning that Trump supporters are supposed to boycott football games. I thought, In his dreams..

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

Ann, peaceful protest is a founding value of our country. I do not know anything about Wolfe, but his gesture seems more empty to me than does that of those protesting. If he is so supportive of those who have died in real battles, I would think he would enlist. It is too easy to say you are patriotic when you don't do anything to back that up. All this love it or leave it stuff is knee-jerk and false patriotism. When something is not right in our country, we are morally obligated, I think, to work to change and improve it. Kaepernick and many of us, watched as black men were repeatedly killed by police. I watched as white men doing the same thing were talked to rather than shot at during a confrontation. I worry every day that I will see the name of one of my students in the paper as a victim. I cannot imagine how I would deal with it if my son were not white and not in danger of being mistreated during a traffic stop.

Simply because these players take a knee does not mean they do not love this country and consider it to be the best country on Earth (although that may be debatable these days). Flag waving is fine, but it is not indicative of what one feels in one's heart. Do not be deceived by false narratives offered by people who never put themselves on the line for anyone or anything. I protested throughout the 60s as a young person and I have never stopped. I still get teary when one of our athletes has the honor to be at the top of the podium while the anthem plays at the Olympics. I also feel a swelling of pride and hope for a continually improving country now just as I did in 1968 when I watched Tommy Smith and John Carlos. I hope Americans never stop protesting injustice.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

How interesting that the so-called "businessman president" wants to destroy a whole sector of our economy. The guy is NOT an American. He is NOT patriotic. I plan to watch football this year in protest (lol).

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momj47(7A)

Mr. Trump doesn't even understand what this is about, does he.

Does he think courageous patriots fought and died for racism, for intolerance, for hate?


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CindyMac(8b)

Jerzeegirl, you couldn't pay me to watch football. It's bad enough my dh does ... Pats, Saints, & LSU.

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CindyMac(8b)

Mom, he's clueless.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

It almost seems impossible that he thinks this way and I am inclined to surmise that this is a huge deflection from the Russia inquiry. Got our minds off Russia, didn't it?

I wanted to post this article because it absolutely sums up the issue and why Major Bigly should shut his piehole. It's not allowing me to copy and paste but the gist of the article is that football was not incidental to the doctrine of racism and the ideology of white supremacism. It was one of the pillars on which they rested. It took years to desegregate football and it goes into why there was not a black quarterback for many years. Hint: white supremacy had something to do with it. Football and racial politics


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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

CindyMac: Iowa Hawkeyes (must see TV in this household); Oregon Ducks; New York Giants and the Tampa Bay Bucs (so sad!). Also, my DD works for the NFL so this is personal for me.

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CindyMac(8b)

How much I know about football ... never heard of the Iowa Hawkeyes or Oregon Ducks. ;)

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ojo_sigo

Not only that Jz but he once took on the NFL and lost and we know how he loves that

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ann_t

How many deferments did dementia don have? He is a "war dodger." Shouldn't even be able to talk about courageous patriots.

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CindyMac(8b)

"This has nothing to do with race."

He repeats over and over. So friggin' clueless.

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CindyMac(8b)

5 deferments ... 4 for college; one for bone spurs.

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CindyMac(8b)



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Maddie AtHome

There's that baldfaced lie again:

The number of Dem seats hasn't "been dropping" because of Dems, the overwhelming majority of those seats were stolen from them.

Also, Conservatives' nationalism is not the real thing. The real thing is patriotism.

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paprikash


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nannygoat_gw

It almost seems impossible that he thinks this way and I am inclined to surmise that this is a huge deflection from the Russia inquiry. Got our minds off Russia, didn't it?

Yes, he periodically comes up with these diversions on a predictable basis.

Here's what I think about this whole protest issue---I'm sure I'll be slammed by some but here it is.

I defend their right to protest but I don't care for the way they're going about it. I absolutely hate the expression "take a knee" but realize that sounds way cooler or whatever than "abstain from the anthem" or "protest the anthem".

I think our anthem is treated disrespectfully by the various arrangements done by the performers. Our national anthem is very stirring when done by a band with all the drums and cymbals and I wish it could be done that way by a local high school or college band and done in a key that would encourage the audience to sing along.

I remember watching the Canadians at some event and they were all singing with very strong voices. I cringe during the singing of the anthem at our pro games---it seems to last an eternity.

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Ann

The number of Dem seats hasn't "been dropping" because of Dems, the overwhelming majority of those seats were stolen from them.

It looks like Hillary has joined the thread.

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ann_t

There is absolutely no reason that the national anthem needs to be played at a game unless of course it is the Olympics and your country won.

It isn't even important for the players to be on the field during the anthem. So if you are against freedom of speech, by black players, because again, that is what this is all about for repugs, than get rid of the anthem.

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Ann

Oh Paprikash, that breaks my heart.

Libs, you all are on the completely wrong side of this issue of utter disrespect for our flag, our anthem and our country. It's disgraceful.

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mrskjun(9)

The number of Dem seats hasn't "been dropping" because of Dems, the overwhelming majority of those seats were stolen from them.

Them Russians at it again!

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roxsol

I remember watching the Canadians at some event and they were all singing with very strong voices. I cringe during the singing of the anthem at our pro games---it seems to last an eternity.

That was at a Ducks/Oilers hockey game last season.

The mic failed but the Edmontonians were able to sing the American National anthem loud and strong!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/oilers-edmonton-nhl-national-anthem-star-spangled-banner-1.4094250

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Ann

Speaking of losing seats, the results of the German election are quite interesting.

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ann_t

Leave it to our Canadians.


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Pidge

No, paprikas, that is NOT why anyone stands for the naional anthem.

That woman is certainly entitled to her grief, but she should not be used in such a phony way by you.

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roxsol

In the current Canadian polls, Conservatives have pulled slightly ahead of Justin Trudeau's liberals.

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elvis

Such disapproval! I wonder it that's because the widow had a baby instead of an abortion.

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Maddie AtHome

I repeat, bald faced, deliberate lie.

The Republican State Leadership Committee released a report boasting that
the only reason the GOP controls the House of Representatives is
because they gerrymandered congressional districts in blue states.

As the RSLC’s report concedes (and ThinkProgress has documented extensively),
a majority of Americans voted for Democratic congressional candidates
on Election Day, but only through the miracle of gerrymandering did
Republicans wind up controlling the House.

Republicans Brag They Won House Majority Because Of Gerrymandering.

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Ann

Roxsolid, what is your opinion of the current Canadian polls you commented on? Are you pleased or disappointed?

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paprikash

Respect for our country, pidge - if you hate the President, vote him out but don't disrespect our country and those who died defending it

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Pidge

elvis, sometimes you are just really absurd. I cannot count the number of times I've wanted to tell you to bugger off.

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roxsol

Neither Ann.

I have been a life long Conservative.

I wasn't too happy when Justin Trudeau became our Prime Minister. I changed my mind very quickly when the USA elected Donald Trump. Justin Trudeau gives North America some sanity.

Justin Trudeau, is a diplomat, he is level headed and I think he preserves the integrity of being a leader of a country.

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Pidge

paprkash, I am not exploting this woman's grief in the cynical way you are. Who was the person who took this heavily staged photo and circullated it?

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ojo_sigo


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Nothing Left to Say

paprishka, balderdash. I live with someone who risked his life serving our country. He has his oath of office memorized. It's not support and defend our President or our flag. It is support and defend our Constitution. And he fully supports the NFL players' right to dissent publically. This kind of thing is the exactly what he was willing to risk his life for.

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Maddie AtHome

Doesn't mean a thing. The other 87% did not vote for them. And Merkel still won.

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lakeaffect

When threatened by facts or criticism of the Head Snowflake, the Super White (apologies to Benjamin Moore), overly thin skinned snowflakes typically pivot, cuz, well, if your leader was as toolish as trump, you'd pivot too. A few popular themes:

Hillary (popular HRC sub pivots include Benghazi, sore loser, STFU already you LOST, your husband cheated on you (and you put up with it), slut shaming of Bill's dalliances (real or alleged), Vince Foster, etc., etc., later/rinse/repeat.)

Liberals are racist because they have the temerity to bring up race in discussions.

Abortion (see Elvis's tasteless comment).

Patriotism (sub pivots include lapel pins (or the lack thereof), tan suits, sleeveless dresses or casual clothing on FLOTUS, WHY DO PROGRESSIVES HATE AMERICA?, you LOST, get over it, the American flag (any permutation; burning, flying, wearing, etc.) and now standing for the national anthem.

They are nothing if not consistent.

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Ann

I cannot count the number of times I've wanted to tell you to bugger off.

Oh my goodness, does this ever match my reaction to the majority of the libs on HT. I'd send out nicely engraved thank you notes if some decided the United States was not a good fit for them and they opted to relocate to another country.

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Ann

Thanks for the answer roxsolid. I did some googling after reading your comment. I'll begin to follow the Canadian political arena a bit more. Sounds interesting.

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roxsol

Ann, you really should follow the Canadian political scene right now.

Tomorrow the decision on Bombardier and Boeing will be made. I am glad Trudeau held his ground but I think Boeing will prevail. :(

Also, President Trump has blustered on and on about tweaking NAFTA. Canada said "Okay, what do you want?"

LOL, Trump said he wasn't sure and now we are waiting on him. We're not sure if he really knows or if it was just throwing his weight around.

He is a tough one to get a straight answer from.

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CindyMac(8b)



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Pidge

Wanting elvis to bugger off certainly does not indicate that I think that the United States is not a good fit for me. Why would you make such a bizarre comment? I want my country to be as worthy of you as it is of me.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Dissent is an American as apple pie.

Making a fuss is what lead to the American Revolution.

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Pidge

Nancy, if you ever come to Philadelphia, I hope you are able to visit the Museum of the American Revolution. The exhibits go far in explaining how and why what is now the United States came into being, including what being a revolutionary means, what were the difficulties in making independence happen, and what kind of country the revolution brought into being. And don't miss, in the very last exhibit and at the very bottom row, a picture of Daniel Waldo, my ancestor who fought in the revolution and lived until the Civil War. I am so proud to have born a Waldo.

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mayflowers

Trump's follow-up tweet:

Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing
with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings!

The idiot can't figure out that they're standing in solidarity against him!


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SandyC.
My dad was a lifelong conservative. Conservatives in Canada are nothing like the GOP of today, that has been hijacked by the far far right, racists, and religiously intolerant, anti gay bigots . They are not white national, anti legal immigration like Trump and his cabinet.
It is like comparing apples to oranges. The majority of "patriotic" nationalists have no clue what happens in our neighbors or allies politics. Trump supporters voiced support for Brexit! And of course Trump supported Nazi Le Penn of France and other far fight wing nationalists.
The racist, white nationalists are a small minority in Canada and have not taken over a major political party with financiers like Mercer and the Kochs supporting their far fight agenda.
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Nothing Left to Say

I notice that at every professional sporting event I have been too, they keep right on selling beer and popcorn while the anthem is playing. And I notice that Trump and all of his supporters here never once complained about that. Why is that?

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studio10001

As an addendum to the subject of respect today, the national anthem was sung to boos from the audience at both the Falcon-Lions game and the Patriots-Texans game this weekend. In both instances, the disturbance was in response to players taking a position of prayer ( someone earlier objected to 'taking the knee', and I am fine with using the longer description) on the field. As some here would say, " That is very interesting."

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SandyC.
Kapernick was a favorite scapegoat of the bigots on Fox
" news" and right wing talk and entertainment tabloid shows like Rush and Hannity.,
He was the first to take a knee in support of BLM and has paid the price. Now we have a president who equates Nazis and white supremacists with those who protest them, the league has awoken.
Trump can pander to his small racist base, but sports is a unifying sport and he blew it. He had a chance to unify the country, but instead he doubled down , calling out our beloved Steph and calling for the firing of the sons of bit** s who take a knee in protest to his racism. He is wrong and has once again abused his power of the office to call for the firing of young black men, exercising their constitutional right.
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Nothing Left to Say

"To you the National Anthem means one thing, to Kaepernick it means something else. We are all shaped and defined by our experiences and we see the world through our own eyes. That's freedom. That's liberty. The right to believe differently. The right to protest as you will. The right to demand better. The right to believe your country can BE better, that it can live up to its sacred ideals, and the right to loudly note that it has NOT. The right to use your voice, your actions, to bring attention to the things you believe in. The right to want more for others, freedom, liberty, justice, equality, and RESPECT.
"A true veteran might not agree with Colin Kaepernick, but a true veteran would fight to the death to protect his right to say what he believes.
"You don't like what Kaepernick has to say? Then prove him wrong, BE the nation he can respect.
"It's really just that simple."



https://www.attn.com/stories/11050/military-veteran-stands-colin-kaepernick?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=direct-share&utm_campaign=shares

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labrea_gw

Glad movies don't start with the anthem ballets plays or operas!

geeze we used to bring a flag to yankee stadium for the7 th inning stretch still this posturing by the Washington pustule is offensive!

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SandyC.
So glad we are season ticket holders to the Warriors. My DH has been a fan for decades and we are so proud of the entire team, the owners and coaches.
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Ann

I repeat, you libs are on the wrong side of this topic of patriotism, IMO. Disrespecting our flag and our anthem makes people like me deeply disrespect all of you. I hope many of you leave our country and the sooner, the better. The animosity you feel toward our president pales in comparison to the animosity patriotic Americans feel about your actions toward your own country. I think I already said it earlier, but it's despicable!

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roxsol

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/riders-locked-arms-cfl-game-1.4305008


Canadian football players stood united for equality and respect today.

Saskatchewan Roughriders and Calgary Stampeders.

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SandyC.
Yay Canada!
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studio10001

crl, thank you for that link; a beautiful post from Mr. Wright, and I hope everyone on the thread gets to take a gander at it.

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SandyC.
Many, many veterans groups oppose Trumps racist rhetoric and red meat for his small base. Just like we saw with the trans gender ban, military are speaking out against Trump, the liar in chief.
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Ann

Studio, I heard about the booing. Wasn't it in response to the kneeling?

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momj47(7A)

I heard about the booing. Wasn't it in response to the kneeling?

You must be thrilled

Actually, they were booing the First Amendment.

Like Mr. Trump, the people who were booing don't like the First Amendment, especially the parts about abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

This is an interesting article on "paid patriotism."

In 2013, a roaring crowd cheered as the Atlanta Falcons welcomed ϴϬ National Guard members who unfurled an American flag across the Georgia Dome’s turf. Little did those fans—or millions of other Americans—know that the National Guard had actually paid the Atlanta Falcons for this display of patriotism as part of a $315,000 marketing contract.

While many professional sporting teams do include patriotic events as a pure display of national pride, this report highlights far too many instances when that is simply not the case. When our offices first discovered this practice, we sought to better understand it from DOD and introduced an amendment to the 2016 National Defense Authorization Act ; to end these taxpayer funded salutes to the troops.

In fact, these displays of paid patriotism are included within the $6.8 million that the Department of Defense (DOD) has spent on sports marketing contracts since fiscal year 2012.

https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/12de6dcb-d8d8-4a58-8795-562297f948c1/tackling-paid-patriotism-oversight-report.pdf

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Ann

Colts fans booed the kneeling players, as did Patriots fans boo their players. They were booing the action of the players j47, not the First Amendment.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

What? you trumpsters think that all this hubub is about Hillary losing the election? You're only fooling yourselves with that old lame excuse. I'm pretty sure that if Hillary had won and she had done a fraction of the nutty stuff donald has done we'd be bitching about her too here and now. Unlike you who blindly believe that trump can do no wrong, you're just goosesteppen to his tune, a tune that plays to your worse angels.

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SandyC.
That's all the far right wingers have. They support a racist president and can't he is, even though his entire life has proven it, starting g with his father marching in clan parades in NY.
The base will never admit Trump is a racist, because golly, gosh, they just might be too.
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Bunny

Sandy, I'm so proud of the Dubs. And yesterday, for the first time, I appreciated LeBron.

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azmom

paprikash,

Your fake president would never be buried in Arlington National Cemetery or be captured, because HE WAS A 5 times DRAFT DODGER! So much patriotism!

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heri_cles

What an awful Sunday watching a country divided. Trump is the quintessential arrogant selfish Republican. In a way I am glad to see the ugly underbelly of Republican ideology laid bare by this hateful semi-intelligent bigot.

Republicans - you are who we thought you were. Own it, and own Trump or get ready to abandon ship. This guy is sinking fast.

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mrskjun(9)

Sports was the last refuge where politics didn't exist. Politics, division, race baiting, protests, have taken over every part of our lives since Nov. 8. Celebrities believe people think what they say is important. Free speech has become free only if I agree with it. There is no longer any civil discourse or debate. Liberals claim it is because Trump won, conservatives claim it is because Hillary lost.

I haven't missed watching a Saints game since the day they became a franchise. We have jerseys going back years, even an autograph of Archie Manning. Yesterday I read a book instead of watching the game. I don't care what they are protesting. They make millions of dollars compliments of fans like me. Without all of us on all sides of the political spectrum their jobs would cease to exist. With all of their millions they can find a different venue to protest whatever they want. Keep politics out of sports, or lose half of your fan base.

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ann_t

So Mrsk you enjoy football but would rather cut off your nose to spite your face than support black players the right to peacefully protest? Why am I not surprised?

You wsnt to keep politics out of sports? Well start with getting rid of playing the national anthem.

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mrskjun(9)

So you think the national anthem is political ann? Which party do you think it represents?

Of course, you can't make a statement without race baiting can you? Keeping politics out of sports has nothing at all to do with race.

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ann_t

You don't think it is about race? Well think again.




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chase_gw

" Politics, division, race baiting, protests, have taken over every part of our lives since Nov. 8. "

Yes, and every bit of it stoked directly by the guy in the oval office who continually throws red meat to his base in the hopes of dividing America even further.

.......and you as I recall, were one of the loudest at calling out President Obama for increasing racial tensions yet you refuse to see how Trump stokes that fire over and over. Refuse to see or refuse to call him out, not sure which is worse

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chase_gw

Ann, yes some fans booed the protesting players. Guess when they did it. ..during the national anthem. How does that work ?

I know, they weren't booing the national anthem they were booing the protest. Well guess what the protesters aren't disrespecting the anthem either !

Just SMH .......

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Nothing Left to Say

Professional sports has always been about race. Don't you know about the Negro Leagues? Haven't you heard of Jackie Robinson? Don't you know about the no more than half black players on a basketball team rule? Don't you know about no black quarterbacks? Black althletes lives have always been constrained by their race. But you think you should not have to face that?

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ann_t

Mrsk you have the freedom to protest by not watching your football game. But at least admit what you are protesting. You are not fooling anyone except maybe yourself if you don't think this is about race.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)


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momj47(7A)

Sports was the last refuge where politics didn't exist.

In what universe?

Sports has always been political. Mr. Trump has managed to take it to new depths, and the RW is following right behind.

What does the national anthem have to do with sports? It's a song about a flag.

To quote Jesse Ventura. "Governments should not mandate patriotism, governments earn patriotism"

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mrskjun(9)

The national anthem was first played at a sporting event in 1862. During WWII was when it started being played before every game. It was not about race then, it is not about race now. You want to protest racial injustice? Take your millions into the inner cities and start youth programs, help with education, mentor young kids. What exactly does taking a knee during the national anthem bring to the discussion? Looks like mostly anger and no discussion about race relations at all. A lot of race baiting going on, helpful as always.

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whynottryit

Ann, if this protest were actually about protesting the flag and the national anthem, I might have more sympathy for your opinion. However, since it is merely the location and time of the protest than the reason, I don't. The protest is against police brutality and racism. The timing is because of the hypocrisy of the powers that be who callously salute the flag and revere the anthem without understanding what those symbols actually mean.

My son is livid that he served in the Army, protecting his country on foreign soil, and is now feeling that all the freedoms he thought he was protecting are being thrown away. He supports all the NFL players and has supported Kaepernick since the beginning of all this. I have read him some of your responses and he is even more disgusted.

You say this is about libs v consvs but it's not. At least for me. It's about keeping America free. I don't care that HRC wasn't elected. I care that DJT was. I don't watch the opinion shows on television. I don't have cable. I watch live streams. I read DJT's tweets directly from him. I watched his speech in Huntsville Friday night while he was speaking. I don't need anyone spouting party lines to me because it's not about party. It's about country. That you don't see that exemplifies the true divide in the politics of this country.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"Celebrities believe people think what they say is important."

Celebrities have as much right to free speech as anyone else.

"calling out President Obama for increasing racial tensions yet you refuse to see how Trump stokes that fire over and over"

So true. Own your guy for what he's doing. Divider in Chief.

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ninamarie(4Ont.)

Keep talking about the flag and what Americans owe to a piece of cloth.

Do not talk about racism. Do not talk about the disproportionate number of blacks in a slave-camp money making prison system. Do not mention the number of blacks killed by police. Forget about poverty and unemployment and the wanton destruction of black neighbourhoods. Forget about the implosion of cities when black residents protest the senseless killings. Do not think about the number of guns being foisted on America.

No, it's all about the stars and the stripes and the emperor. And the emperor wants people, particularily black athletes, to stand during the singing of that racist ditty, the national anthem. What the emperor wants, the emperor gets. And in the meantime, the right wingers on this forum stand in line to lick the emperor's boots.

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Nothing Left to Say

What it really boils down to is that there is no acceptable protest. Not from black people. Don't riot, don't March, don't ask your congress people for town halls, don't kneel during the anthem. . . . . Just shut up and go away because I don't care that racism exists because it doesn't affect me.

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momj47(7A)

it is not about race now.

Yes, mrskjun, its all about race now. With Mr. Trump it's always about race

Mr. Trump couldn't get off his arse to criticize white supremacist and white neo-Nazis, and white KKK, in Charlottesville, VA, who were demonstrating in support of white supremacy

When black athletes protest racism, injustice, intolerance, Mr. Trump is screeching all over the media, criticizing their actions in support of tolerance and justice.

Which makes it very clear that Mr. Trump does not support justice, tolerance, equality.

You are far too smart, mrsk, to not understand what's going on.

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whynottryit

What exactly does taking a knee during the national anthem bring to the discussion? Looks like mostly anger and no discussion about race relations at all. A lot of race baiting going on, helpful as always.

Apparently, it got the attention of the President who then waged a frontal assault against the NFL during a political rally. I doubt this Sunday would have seen the huge backlash of protesters had DJT not stirred things up again. You have a strange way of assessing responsibility for this particular situation.

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ann_t

"You are far too smart, mrsk, to not understand what's going on."

It is just easier to deny than to admit what they are.

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mrskjun(9)

whynottryit, I stand by what I said in the beginning. Sports was our last refuge from politics. Everyone is protesting everything already. Sports was an escape from the hatred and divisiveness that is permeating our society these days. As I said, liberals can blame it on conservatives, conservatives can blame it on liberals and we may never agree on the reasons. Now sports have become yet another battleground, and I personally mourn the loss of that non political few hours each week. That's my personal feelings about it and like anything else I disagree with I am free to tune it out. And I will.

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Nothing Left to Say

Mrskjun, you continue to to ignore that professional sports has always been about racism. Maybe you should think about why it makes you so uncomfortable to have to face that truth.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

mrskjun, why do you deny others the right to use their voice to protest? Trump is using his very big voice to do the same.

Why are you not criticizing Trump for being divisive? Are you tuning that out?

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blfenton

What it really boils down to is that there is no acceptable protest. ..... Don't riot, don't March, don't ask your congress people for town halls, don't kneel during the anthem. - crl

@crl - My intentionn is not to take this out of context but this statement could also apply to those who objected to the Womens March, to those who object to the messages of trumps rallies, and yes, to those who object to the messages of their representatives during town hall meetings.

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chase_gw

What is encouraging is seeing Trump supporters like Kraft , Khan and Michael Steele call him out

What he did was wrong and if it wasn't about race before he sure made it about race.

A small handful of Black players knelt rather than stand for the anthem. They didn't boo or tell hateful things. They simlpy knelt on one knee with their head bent.

They did it to bring attention to a serious problem being experienced by Black men. I can guarantee you many of these "millionaires" get pulled over by police for" driving a Mercedes while Black". It happens to then all the time.....just because they are Black.

Now, thanks to Trump , a quiet protest by a few has become a huge issue dividing the country and causing unnecessary divisiveness and discord.

Then to add insult to injury he disinvites the NBA championship team to the WH !!!! How unbelievably immature is that!

However, just like Charlottesville the backlash against Trump from people of influence will be significant

He didn't have to make his point this way....he deliberetly chose to....and that should make even the most Trump supporters stop and ask ....why?

Mrs, many, many black players spend lots of their money and time helping inter city youth....that has zero to do with this and nothing more than cheap shot


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ann_t

Really Mrsk? You gave up watching a sport that you enjoy, because you had to endure a couple of minutes of a silent protest at the beginning of the game? Smh!!!!

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Kathy

Tom Brady just broke with Trump because of his divisiveness....

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momj47(7A)

I personally mourn the loss of that non political few hours each week.

Then why do you seek it out on Hot Topics?

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AnnKH

mrskjun:

The national anthem was first played at a sporting event in 1862. During
WWII was when it started being played before every game. It was not
about race then, it is not about race now. You want to protest racial
injustice? Take your millions into the inner cities and start youth
programs, help with education, mentor young kids.
What exactly does
taking a knee during the national anthem bring to the discussion?

This is exactly what Colin Kaepernick has done. He used his celebrity status to draw attention to a cause about which he feels very strongly, and he is doing something about it.

Million dollar pledge

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chase_gw

; Now sports have become yet another battleground, and I personally mourn the loss of that non political few hours each week. "

Mrs, you can thank Trump for that. He took the silent action of a few and blew it up into a huge National argument.

He didn't have to do it that way.....he choose to attack the entire NFL and cause this to become the huge problem it now is.

He deliberately chose to do it......some leader

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Pidge

From cri:

What it really boils down to is that there is no acceptable protest. Not from black people. Don't riot, don't March, don't ask your congress people for town halls, don't kneel during the anthem. . . . . Just shut up and go away because I don't care that racism exists because it doesn't affect me.

Well-said, cri: There is a widespread and perhaps subconscious belief among white people that black people should be grateful for what white people have given them and keep their mouths shut beyond saying, "yes, mass.a.". It's a white people's game (football, baselball, basketball, soccer, ice hockey, etc.) ,or so they thik, and black players who were very belatedly even permitted into the various leagues are expected to pay blind allegiance to a governing system (including education, politics, economics, gender, etc.) that deliberately works to "keep them in their place."

Ann practically demands that if one does not blindly follow this unwritten white person rule they should leave the country. I remember this position from the Vietnam War era: "Love it or leave it" coupled with "My country, right or wrong." Wrong then, wrong now.

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Kathy

Why....I totally agree with your comment this is not about Party it is about Country.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Sports was our last refuge from politics. Everyone is protesting
everything already. Sports was an escape from the hatred and
divisiveness that is permeating our society these days
.

You have got to be kidding. Racial politics has been ingrained in many sports for decades. If you don't see that, then you can't see.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

In the meantime, the kneeling is spreading.

"National anthem singer Meghan Linsey on decision to take a knee: 'I was absolutely terrified'

“I was absolutely terrified walking out there,” country singer Meghan Linsey admits, speaking of her journey to the microphone at Nashville’s Nissan Stadium, where she performed the national anthem before a Titans game Sunday afternoon. “. . . . I knew that was the right thing to do today.”

. . . . . . . . . . . .

The reaction came fast and furious on Twitter — much of it supportive; seemingly more of it not. . . .

On Twitter, the reactions included: “Please leave Tennessee. We do not follow the fascist policies of the America hating democrats here.” “Just ruined her career; let’s help her end it. [Her Voice coach] Blake Shelton must be so proud.” “You disgusting vile excuse for an American! You totally s*** on those Marines holding old glory! I wish the worst for you!” “You knelt your career goodbye!!!”

-----------------------------------------------------

So much for freedom of expression, although I guess vilification is a First Amendment right also?

Kate

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momj47(7A)


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mrskjun(9)

I do remember the outrage because Tim Tebow took a knee to say a silent prayer before a game. Not just by people here, but also in the media. One poster said she didn't want his religion shoved in her face. I guess she couldn't endure a minute before the game when he took a knee. Though he did stand for the anthem.

Come to think of it. Any coach that takes a knee to pray with his team gets fired. Prayer is not allowed, but protests are. Got it.

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azmom

I don't see any disrespectfulness in athletes' protesting, the potty-mouth- rumor-mill-in-chief twisted it as an insult to the country in order to distract people's focus from the jobs he has not been doing.

in fact he has displayed tremendously amount of insults to our flag, country and constitution.

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ann_t

Your Dementia Don has blown this out of the water with his comments. It wasn't that big of a deal and now it is major. I hope this comes back to bite him on that big fat ass of his.

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whynottryit

I do remember the outrage because Tim Tebow took a knee to say a silent prayer before a game. Not just by people here, but also in the media. One poster said she didn't want his religion shoved in her face. I guess she couldn't endure a minute before the game when he took a knee. Though he did stand for the anthem.

I don't recall that but I would have reacted much the same as I am now with Kaepernick. The difference being one was a religious belief and the other a protest of government action. Both are protected by the First Amendment.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Protests are as American as apple pie. Why shouldn't they be allowed, mrskjun? This is America.

On the other hand, we support many religions in this country. You would be just as happy to have a non-Christian coach/player practice an item from his/her faith before a game?

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Kathy

I often wonder what the RW would have done if a Muslim player decided to pray on the field before a game....

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Nothing Left to Say

Come to think of it. Any coach that takes a knee to pray with his team gets fired. Prayer is not allowed, but protests are. Got it.

Source?

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chase_gw

Mrs, You may recall that event but do you recall President Obama callinng him a sob publicly?

Do you recall him calling for a ban of the NFL?

Do you recall him causing national dissent over it ?

That's the real problem .. ..the one you gladly accept from your guy

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mrskjun(9)

Oh I get it chase. The protests are not about social injustice, they are about Trump. Thanks for clearing that up.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

mrskjun: You would be just as happy to have a non-Christian coach/player practice an item from his/her faith before a game?

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ojo_sigo

In another 'sport' - boxing, racism and politics has a very long history, Jack Johnson was black and white boxers refused to fight with him. Muhammed Ali said that he didn't want to go to Vietnam to fight a white mans war. Hitler's reaction to Jesse Owen is well known

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AnnKH

There are several aspects to this whole issue, and they have become completely jumbled up.

1. During the last football preseason, Colin Kaepernick decided to bring attention to the unfair and violent treatment of blacks by law enforcement. Read about it here He did so by sitting on the bench during the national anthem, before a football game. After that he kneeled, "He explained his decision to switch was an attempt to show more respect to former and current U.S. military members while still protesting during the anthem".

The real question here is not whether or not Mr. Kaeprenick has the right to kneel during the anthem, but whether he has the right to protest at work. His employer at the time, the San Fransisco 49ers, did not object; nor did the NFL.

2. Other players joined the protest. Apparently folks felt that the failure to stand during the national anthem was disrespectful to the flag, the country, the military. (Ironically, I've never been to a major sporting event where the crowd did not end the singing of the anthem with "and the home of the HOME TEAM!" which is apparently not disrespectful at all). The entire point of the protest became buried under cries of "unpatriotic and disrespectful".

The problem here is that the real reason for the protest - racial injustice - was smothered under a flurry outrage by football fans. I don't know if those football fans were predominantly white, but I would guess that's the case.

3. Kaeprenick became a free agent in March of 2017. No team has picked him up, in spite of him having a better-than-average QB rating. The assumption is that his public protest is the reason.

4. 6 months later, Kaeprenick is not playing in the NFL, he is no longer "stirring the pot", he is raising a million dollars to help others.. Yet President Trump chooses a rally to call him a son of a bitch, to call for the firing of any NFL player who does not stand for the anthem. That sparked a huge display on Sunday, across the NFL and elsewhere, with players kneeling, locking arms, and in some cases not leaving the locker room during the anthem.

The obvious question is "What is Trump's deal?" When have we ever heard a President swear at a sports figure? Why is he even wasting his (and our) time talking about football?

Were his comments yet another big diversion, as we face yet another health careless bill, natural disasters in Texas, Florida, Puerto Rico and Mexico, and international scorn following his UN statements? Were the statements carefully crafted? (it sure didn't sound like it - I really hope "son of a bitch" didn't show up on the teleprompter).

Or did Trump just need to say something that would get the crowd in front of him to cheer?

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SandyC.

Trump represents social injustice!
He equated the KKK, white supremacists and neo Nazis to those protesting them.
He ran a campaign based on white identity politics.
His base are the forgotten man, that believe immigrants, minorities , gays, and multiculturalism and globalization have caused all of their grievances.
Trump has a cabinet of white nationalist anti legal immigration zealots, with far right AG Sessions.

Trump targeted young, black athletes who are protesting racial inequality in the police and justice system, and support of BLM, by calling them sons of bit**s and calling for their firings.
This is an absolute abuse of power and again shows his inability to become POTUS for the entire country , instead throwing red meat to his racist base.
The base who believe President Obama caused increased racial divides in this country, when in reality Trump has emboldened the far right nationalists, scapegoating immigrants and Muslims and now black athletes.

Whenever I hear our white nationalists call Trump "patriotic" , it means he is in support of their nationalist, racist cause. Patriotism, means fighting for and supporting our fellow Americans constitututional right to free speech through peaceful protest.

Just like during the civil rights movements the public sentiment was, okay they have said their piece now shut up , by many whites, who were in denial of the civil rights movement.

Now over 50 years later, we have a small minority of Trump far far right base, who believe people should respect the POTUS, who has shown disrespect for most of the country, and not protest inequality. That is not patriotism! Trump is not a dictator, we have the right to protest inequality, just as the women's march of over 5 M worldwide peacefully protested Trump and his racist, misogynistic policies.

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chase_gw

Mrs, actually you apparently DON'T get it.

The protests Sunday WERE about Trump and his statements Friday night followed by his inappropriate and obnoxious tweets.

The previous actions by a few players were about social injustice...Sunday was all about Trump...brought on by Trump

I asj you again, if President Obama had reacted to Tebow the way Trump reacted would you have thought it acceptable? Would you have stayed silent?

We both know the answer to that.....

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

And the kneeling keeps on spreading:

"97-year-old WWII vet goes viral after 'taking a knee' to support NFL players

NFL players have the support of a member of the Greatest Generation.

John Middlemas, a 97-year-old World War II veteran from Missouri, went viral on Sunday after his grandson Brennan Gilmore tweeted a picture of his grandfather kneeling on the ground.

“Those kids have every right to protest,” Gilmore quoted his grandfather as saying.

The image of a World War II veteran defending the rights of Americans to peacefully protest quickly struck a chord with an online audience. As of Sunday night, the picture had between retweeted more than 100,000 times and “loved” almost 300,000 times."

------------------------------------------------
So there, all you armed-chair patriots.

Kate

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CindyMac(8b)

Video of Bob Costas:

Patriotism comes in many forms, but it's been conflated w/ bumper sticker flag waving & "military only."

https://twitter.com/jnsanchez/status/912292192454086656

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mrskjun(9)

The NFL banned the Dallas Cowboys from wearing stickers on their helmets honoring five slain Dallas policemen, but it's ok for players to protest the police and dishonor the flag and anthem. Got it.

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labrea_gw



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Ann

Mrskjun, of course it's about Trump. EVERY stupid thing they do is about stomping their feet and having a tantrum because Trump won and disrespecting our flag and anthem is the most stupid action yet. Trump is patriotic so, of course, they have to not be. You're so right, going into the inner cities to make a difference would make a difference, but yelling and screaming tantrums are nothing more than yelling and screaming tantrums. Guess what, and I'll only say the obvious because it seems to be so darn difficult for some to accept. President Trump is our president, was duly elected and all your tantrums won't change that. Voting is your only avenue. Disrespecting your own country is the wrong side of the coin and it's despicable.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

So much for the first amendment!

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chase_gw

Mrs, not answering my question just confirms the fact that had President Obama acted as Trump did you would have been very vocal in your criticism.

Ann, The blow back on Trump and his totally irresponsible and inflammatory remarks ours NOT just from liberals.

NFL owners and huge Trump supporters Kraft and Khan called him out for his words AND Stiff with their players Sunday.

Tom Brady, big Trump fan, condemned the remarks and the Bills player that introduced Trump at a rally in Buffalo regrets he did so and regrets voting for him


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sunflower_petal(5a)

Dale Earnhardt? Uh oh - there goes Nascar! Sorry, Trump ~

"So proud of NASCAR and its supporters and fans," Trump wrote on Twitter at 7:25 a.m. ET. "They won't put up with disrespecting our Country or our Flag - they said it loud and clear!"

Ann, I'm not sure why you don't understand that people are protesting what Trump is saying, not that he won. Be in the now.

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CindyMac(8b)

The NFL banned the Dallas Cowboys from wearing stickers on their helmets
honoring five slain Dallas policemen, but it's ok for players to
protest the police and dishonor the flag and anthem. Got it.

No, clearly you don't get it.

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CindyMac(8b)

Worth repeating.


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Nothing Left to Say

Ann, it's a shame that you refuse to listen to anyone who disagrees with you. It's very disrespectful of all the veterans who have made it clear that supporting the first amendment is patriotic. It's a shame that you think you have the corner on patriotism and everyone who disagrees with you, including those who have risked their lives for our country, are somehow unpatriotic because they believe in supporting and honoring our Constitution. It is a real shame that any American would speak so disrespectfully.

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Nothing Left to Say

Jackie Robinson on standing for the anthem:. http://www.snopes.com/jackie-robinson-anthem/

For those who refuse to know history and understand that professional sports in this country have always been about race.


(edited to correct typo)

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Nothing Left to Say

Posting again since it seems Mrskjun might have missed it.


Any coach that takes a knee to pray with his team gets fired. Prayer is not allowed, but protests are. Got it.

Source?

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

"Trump is patriotic..."

Trump is a carnival barker and reminds me of Elmer Gantry (by Sinclair Lewis). He will play the crowd like no one else.

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chase_gw

Trump is not patriotic.........if he was as President he would not be driving the country alert wuthering his divissive hateful language.

This is all about Trump pure and simple

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ojo_sigo

Patriotism and Nationalism are closely related but not the same thing and are often confused.

Trump would be who he is - win or lose. the problem with his winning is that he brings all of his 'qualities' to bear on the national and international scene. Had he not won we would not be facing that problem and this is the relevance of him winning the irrelevance of pretending that anyone protesting Trumps incompetence is a sore loseris self evident. The reason this meme continually crops up is because that is what memes do.

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leona_2008

trump keeps shooting people on 5th avenue and his supporters keep saying, "trump shooting someone on 5th avenue is MAGA!"

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The "sore loser" mantra allows Trump to escape any accountability for his words and actions.

His supporters act as enablers for continued irresponsible behavior.

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Joaniepoanie

Why is the national anthem played/sung at sporting events in the first place? The only time it makes sense is at the Olympics. It's not played before concerts, plays, movies, etc.





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chase_gw

Nancy, exactly right. They do what he does.....attack back. That's what you do when you can't defend the indefensible

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mayflowers

His supporters act as enablers for continued irresponsible behavior.

I've said that many times. If you want better from Trump, expect better from him. But you excuse and defend and justify everything he does. Of course he's this way. You created this monster and you keep him alive with your enabling.

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catspa_zone9sunset14

Ann's words and attitude about protest are so very deja vu -- the Vietnam war era all over again. Those protesters had it right, too, by the way.

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ubro(2a)

The RW and Trump are trying to change the narrative of this protest, trying to make it about patriotism and respect for soldiers. These athletes have said they are standing against racial inequality, the people that disagree do not get to change those reasons in order to denigrate these men and drum up opposition.

Trump has made this issue about more than racial intolerance, he has made it about freedom of expression without government suppression. Move over Kim, Trump is on his way up.

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roxsol

I have been watching the 10 part documentary on the Viet Nam war.

There is a black Marine that gives his personal account of his time in Viet Nam and how he fought for his country. I was struck by his comment that when he came back to the USA, none of the cabbies at the airport would stop for him so that he could get a ride home.

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ann_t

"The NFL banned the Dallas Cowboys from wearing stickers on their helmets honoring five slain Dallas policemen, but it's ok for players to protest the police and dishonor the flag and anthem. Got it."


No Mrsk, you don't get it. Try a little harder.

And you left out this:

"The Cowboys heard back from the NFL on Wednesday and were told by league officials they can't wear the decal during any preseason or regular-season games, executive vice president Stephen Jones said. Jones added that the Cowboys can wear the decal during training camp practices.

Everyone has to be uniform with the league and the other 31 teams," Jones said after practice Wednesday. "We respect their decision."

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Did I miss it? I'm honestly surprised that so many here, whom I assume are my age (56) or older, seem to have such short memories. Exactly how long has it been 'customary' for NFL teams to stand w/ hand over heart for the nat'l anthem?

Since 2009, that's when - an 8 year-long 'tradition' that was born out of a PR effort to up recruitment in the armed forces. Before that teams sat on the bench during the anthem.

& yes, I'm fairly certain this was a move by Mr. Trump to draw attention w/ a hot button issue - & boy how it has worked - against him!

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chase_gw

Carol, that is so interesting !

I knew that playing the anthem was long standing but had no idea that players standing for it was relatively new ...

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Also new is hand over heart. We used to only do that for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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ninamarie(4Ont.)

"Liberals on HT are so strange to me. It all feels so incredibly un-American and unpatriotic"

Apparently you believe that racism is an appropriate way to express your patriotism.. Or perhaps you believe that racism is a victimless crime.

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ninamarie(4Ont.)

"Didn't some of you have fathers, uncles, grandfathers, and brothers who fought and died for this country they loved?"

They died for democracy, Ann, not a square of cloth. Do you even know what democracy is? You are apparently willing to cede democracy to your dear emperor?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

My father fought the Nazis in Europe. Now Trump cannot find it in his heart to unequivocally denounce Nazis in the US.

That is disrespectful!

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studio10001

I think this has worked just as he would wish:

1) While the country is riling about this, little attention is being given to more serious matters.

2) He has kept himself at the front of the news cycle, aligned with the flag and calls for patriotism.

3) He has further energized the pop. segment that boosted his ratings last week (male Republicans without a college education).

(I skimmed the remaining thread just now, and would posit that we are all enabling his agenda, anytime we make or retweet divisive comments.)

Some things to do -beyond putting up and shutting up until election day, that is:

1)If you feel strongly about standing being the only proper respect that can be shown for our country and are of an age to do so, enlist. We are going to need you. Too old? Give a buck or two here -http://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/career-advice/military-transition/nonprofit-organization-for-veterans.html

2)If you feel strongly about the right to peacefully protest, or national unity, lend a bit of support w #bendtheknee in your social media and a buck or two here -http://kaepernick7.com/million-dollar-pledge/.

Taking a positive action is bound to feel better than dispairing on a thread, eh?


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Excellent point, Nancy.

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Jane

studio, I believe social media posts get read and reported. I believe social media posts are a contribution.

Money is nice too, but not at the expense of voices. A multitude of diverse voices.

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mrskjun(9)

Maybe they should take a knee on the streets of Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans. If they had hoped to bring people to their message.....how is that working out?

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Ditto Nancy, as I posted before my uncle's job was to shoot nazies at the battle of the bulge, he rolled in his grave when trump said they were good people. Would trump say the same if isis marched down the streets of America shouting "Jews will not replace us"? No difference at all. Amazing how trump can so easily brainwash some people.

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studio10001

Jane, I agree, and to be clear, I am not suggesting that anyone disengage, but am instead suggesting that some of the anxiety being expressed through heightened language can be channeled to a more satisfying result. I do not believe it to be true that nothing can be done until election time...in fact election time represents the absolute least we can do. :)

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Kathy


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ojo_sigo

That might be considered racist Mrs or was that your point

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momj47(7A)

Like this?




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momj47(7A)

Or this


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momj47(7A)

Or this?


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chase_gw

Mrs , most players do much for their communities. Why would you usec that against them?

It isn't surprising to me that you choose to focus on the peaceful protest of a handful of players yet are fully accepting of Trump, the President of the United States, calling them SOB's and purposefully stirring up national divisiveness. Something you had no problem accusing President Obama of

Something has come clear to me that I have resisted for years.

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ojo_sigo






Third stanza of "The star Spangled Banner"








And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

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Kitchenwitch111


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mrskjun(9)

I've already said, way way above, that I didn't agree with Trumps comments. Should have put it in bold lettering I suppose. I also agree that these NFL players are free to protest any way they chose. I am also free to stand with the 70% of Americans who don't agree that the players should take a knee during the playing of the anthem. 1/3 of Americans were boycotting the NFL as far back as Oct. 2016 over the few players that were taking a knee. Trump had nothing to say back then. Hopefully when salaries start dropping, these players will still kneel on their principles.

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momj47(7A)

Poll: 61% Oppose Firing NFL Players Who Refuse to Stand for National Anthem, but 65% of Republicans Say Players Should be Fired

The national survey finds that a solid majority, 61%, of Americans oppose firing NFL (National Football League) players who refuse to stand for the national anthem before football games in order to make a political statement. These results stand in contrast to President Trump’s remarksover the weekend and his urging NFL teams to fire players who refuse to stand for the anthem. A little more than a third (38%) of Americans align with Trump and support firing these players.

Conservative Republicans stand out in their support for firing NFL players who refuse to stand for the national anthem. Nearly two-thirds (65%) of Republicans say NFL players should be fired for this reason. Only 19% of Democrats and 35% of independents agree. Punishing NFL players for their political speech distinguishes political Conservatives from Libertarians. Using a political typology method to identify these ideological groups, the survey finds that Conservatives (62%) are the only political group to support firing NFL players. Conversely, 60% of Libertarians, 85% of Liberals, and 62% of Communitarians (social conservatives who support larger government) all oppose punishing players.

The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank

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mrskjun(9)

Just so you notice mom. My post said nothing about firing.

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SandyC.
" Maybe hey should take a knee in Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans"
What the he**'does that mean? That they should take their protest to predominantly black inner cities? Because it's only a black issue?
Where have you been the past few years, when young, unarmed men have been murdered by cops?
I do believe Trump voters are silent about BLM, because it doesn't affect them and they do not believe in equality. They pretend racism was brought on by Obama, as we saw the white backlash in 2016. Trump knew his base, he is a master marketer, and held a campaign on the backs of minorities and immigrants, and Muslims.
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chase_gw

Yup , Trump calling an American who peacefully drew attention to the treatment of some police against blacks is unpatriotic but dissing a Gold Star family and calling an American war hero a loser is patriotic.....how does that work ?

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Can you link to your survey, mrskjun? The one where "70% of Americans who don't agree that the players should take a knee during the playing of the anthem"

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ann_t

Mrsk's posts show her true colours.

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Pidge

Sorry I made a post on the wrong thread.

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momj47(7A)

Just so you notice mom. My post said nothing about firing.

I don't actually care what your post said

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chase_gw

Nope

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Nothing Left to Say

Mrskjun, you seem to be unaware that there is a boycott on the NFL until Kaepernick is hired. So, I wouldn't go assuming people who are boycotting are doing so because they object to a person exercising his first amendment rights.

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whynottryit

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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Pidge

^^^^^scary thought.

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SandyC.
Look at Germany, the first right wing nationalist, anti refugee, anti immigrant party ( same as Trump's party) got a small percentage of the votes since WWII.
They used the same anti immigrant, racist rhetoric as Trump. "Floods" of refugees, affecting their culture. SMH.
The far right, racists, believe nationalism equates to patriotism.
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labrea_gw

Its about war on The US by the current Chief executive !

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momj47(7A)
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labrea_gw

Trump followed up this morning’s anti-NFL tweetstorm by retweeting a post about former NFL star Pat Tillman, who was accidentally killed by US troops in Afghanistan.

As If Pat Tillman woud side with Trump appropriated by Right Wing Bloggers,

Tillman was an atheist who corresponded with a favorite of his Noam Chomsky. Those who served with him were quite aware of his politics!

"Tillman’s personal politics. Those who served with Tillman in Iraq and Afghanistan say he was vehemently against former U.S. president George W. Bush and called the war “so * ucking illegal.”


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whynottryit

I apologize. I didn't source the quote because it was posted by a friend that typically is correct. It apparently sounds like him but the quote has not been found in any of his writings. The Sinclair Lewis Society

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Pidge

Thank you, why not, for the clarification. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see posters take ownership of what they say even if it's painful. You rock!!!!!

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whynottryit

Thank you, Pidge. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I try to source everything that I may have any question about but this time, I got lax and thought he would have already sourced it. I have let him know as well so that we don't continue the misinformation. There is enough of that going around already. :D

ETA: However, whoever authored the quote, I do agree with the sentiment.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Hubby just told me he remembers when teams didn't even come out of the locker rooms until after the anthem.

I also found it weird when people started placing their hands over their hearts for the national anthem & acting as if it was a tradition - as if there was no memory of the past.

And others have said - & I agree - that if our national anthem disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't make any difference; America would still be here.


P.S. & FWIW, "conservatives" here on this forum have not been entirely silent about Black Lives Matter - I recall it being characterized as a 'hate group'.

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whynottryit

He constantly surprises me with his childishness!


DJT Twitter Post 9/25/2017 at 5:28 p.m.

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SandyC.
Pat Tillman is our home town hero.
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studio10001

General Dempsey wrote a wonderful response for USA, similar to what Bob Costas said ( Ann, you'll like this one, I think):

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/09/18/kaepernick-patriotism-flag-anthem-military-football-respect-general-dempsey/90429784/

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Kathy

Why is he speaking for Kelly? Trump must have been watching CNN and his immediate reaction is to tweet..

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whynottryit

Yes, I think that's what happened. But his reaction sounds like a child saying, "Mommy said it was ok!"

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Kathy

He has tweeted 8x today about protests.....

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whynottryit

Any about Puerto Rico or healthcare or North Korea?

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Kathy

Once about Healthcare yesterday....but the one he tweeted about NK yesterday was interpreted as a declaration of war. Maybe he Has orders to only tweet about sports and this was his response?

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whynottryit

Who knows...lol

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chase_gw

Nope....his total focus is hitting back at those who hit back at him and thowing red meat to his base.......he desperately needs the adoration of that base

The man is not well. He is the President of the United States and his behaviour is bizarre, unhinged. This has now become frightening

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Kathy

Totally agree Chase...he is getting worse every day...I do feel the closer Mueller gets the more unhinged he will get but it is getting totally frightening.

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momj47(7A)

What does prayer have to do with football, or any sport?

They might as well slaughter a chicken and offer it as an offering to Baal, for all the good prayer is.

What does playing the National Anthem have to do with sports.

We already know what nation we live in. We are as involved, or uninvolved, as we want to be.

It's just empty, meaningless patriotism.

On the other hand, the injustice, the racism, the intolerance, the violence the football players are calling attention to by their actions is very very real. And it's long past time for the government to do something about it.

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CindyMac(8b)

The flag is not the issue; never has been.




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Ziemia(6a)

More about the 'bias' the NFL has, alluded to by Mrskjun:

It's pretty easy to get upset about the NFL over this. The league has a long history of appearing tone deaf when it comes to letting players and teams support various causes. Brandon Marshall, then with the Bears, was fined more than $10,000 for wearing green shoes to raise awareness for mental-health issues.

Steelers running back DeAngelo Williams wanted to wear pink all season long to honor his mother, who died of breast cancer. The NFL told him no.

...............................................

Talking about race isn't racist. Complaining about race-talk is.

Ann, you are really missing the point if you think any of this (athlete kneeling during anthem) is about protesting Trump's election.

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Ziemia(6a)

45 has just tweeted about Puerto Rico. (So recent, and it takes about 8 minutes between tweets it would seem). With no ellipses after his last one, seems he is done. BTW --- his previous tweet mentioning Puerto Rico was September 30th.

Screen grab, so read from bottom up:

ETA: a bit more than 13 about football and the anthem in the last two days.

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Ziemia(6a)

Q Sarah, when Colin Kaepernick says that his protest is about fighting police brutality, fighting racial disparity, racial injustice, you're not taking him at his word. You're saying the focus has long since moved on. But when white supremacists say that their protest is about heritage and not hate, the President does take them at their word. So why is there this disparity about who gets to decide what protest is about?

MS. SANDERS: I think if the debate is really, for them, about police brutality, they should probably protest the officers on the field that are protecting them instead of the American flag.

They all (45's supporters) just skip over logic. All, hail, hypocrisy.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Wait, wait, wait!!

Donald J Trump is mentioning that Puerto Rico has to deal with its creditors?

Thrice bankrupt Donald J Trump lectures Puerto Rico on debt . . . the man who cannot obtain credit from US banks due to his business history.

Oh, the irony!

Can Trump arrange some Russian oligarchs to bail out Puerto Rico? Come on, be a pal!

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momj47(7A)


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Bunny

Jerry Jones?!!!

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roxsol

Linelle, that's what my husband said!

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studio10001

To be fair, meanom, the criticism is as much about involving national symbols of hope in the protest as it is the protest itself. Some people take that personally enough that it shuts out their ability to hear what the protest is about, the idea being that if Colin has no regard for those unifyers, then he must have no wish for unity, and why should they care what he has to say? That is misguided, I believe, but not hypocrisy.

The nature of protest is to make people uncomfortable, and the public arena is the only place where protest matters. Within that outline, I feel that Kaepernick's protest was as respectful as it could be. His position was not without regard --staying on bended knee is a pose of respect or worshipfulness , not defiance. I hope people move past their anger and take the time to listen to what the players have to say, and to look at what the players are doing to better the situation in their communities, because listening can sometimes bring even greater unity than the national anthem.

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Nothing Left to Say


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Ziemia(6a)

studio---- I still see the hypocrisy --- the flag is connected to 'liberty and justice for all'. And the behavior of police in some districts limits the liberty of African Americans to go about their lives.

It feels like, from comments like yours and others' from the last few days, that 'liberals' are being asked to understand their perspective while there is no sign the 'other' side is making any similar attempts.

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studio10001

Yup. When they go low......

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momj47(7A)

Three more anti-American tweets from Mr. Trump, starting at 3:30 this morning.


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momj47(7A)

Pat Tillman’s widow says Trump tweet ‘politicized’ former NFL star in a divisive way

Amid a string of tweets disparaging NFL players for staging protests during the national anthem, President Trump retweeted another user’s post that invoked former NFL star Pat Tillman, who became an Army Ranger after 9/11 and was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan in 2004. But while Trump endorsed the message that honoring Tillman should encourage athletes and others to “stand for our anthem,” Tillman’s widow strongly took issue with it.

“Pat’s service, along with that of every man and woman’s service, should never be politicized in a way that divides us,” Marie Tillman said, in comments relayed to CNN’s Brian Stelter. “We are too great of a country for that.”

Monday’s comments were not the first time Marie Tillman has spoken out against the president. In January, after Trump first signed an order barring travel from seven majority Muslim countries, she said of her late husband, “This is not the country he dreamed of, not what he served for and not what he died for.”

After Trump’s retweet Monday, some noted online that Tillman was a far more complex figure than how he has often been portrayed since his death. A 2005 report by the San Francisco Chronicle, for example, used interviews with close family members and soldiers who served with Tillman to paint a picture of an independent thinker “whose interests ranged from history books on World War II and Winston Churchill to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author,” and who “supported the Afghan war, believing it justified by the Sept. 11 attacks,” but was “very critical of the whole Iraq War.”

“The very action of self expression and the freedom to speak from one’s heart — no matter those views — is what Pat and so many other Americans have given their lives for,” Tillman said Monday. “Even if they didn’t always agree with those views.

“It is my sincere hope that our leaders both understand and learn from the lessons of Pat’s life and death, and also those of so many other brave Americans.”

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whynottryit

"And this is the tip of the bloody iceberg."

"This is reality.

This is the nightmare of black parents – that the guys white people call for protection will be the ones who end the lives of their sons.

This is why pro athletes are kneeling during the anthem. It has nothing to do with soldiers or the American flag.

So, before you spend one more day angry at football players over these phony reasons, do me a favor.

Start at the top of this column and read back through. Only this time, imagine the victims look like you – are your children, your brother, your dad, your grandfather, your grandkids. Imagine living with the unimaginable feeling of fearing those who are supposed to protect us."


This is why they are kneeling


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jodik_gw

Trump acts just like a spoiled little kid in need of constant attention... and he doesn't care whether it's good or bad attention, or what he has to do to get it.

~~~

I have never followed protocol during the singing of our national anthem. I'm not about to start now. I do not display the flag... not gonna start now.

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mrskjun(9)

I always stand for the national anthem and usually sing along. I have a flag that flew in the rotunda of the Reagan White House. I am so blessed to have been born in this country and had the opportunities available to me to be and do whatever I chose. My father fought in WWII, my dh in Vietnam. I choose to honor their service. I also choose to quietly protest those who would not stand when the anthem is played and won't be watching any NFL games or other sports until the practice ends.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Trump can't quit tweeting about the NFL--he also can't get his facts straight!

------------------------------

Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump

Ratings for NFL football are way down except before game starts, when people tune in to see whether or not our country will be disrespected!

Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump

The booing at the NFL football game last night, when the entire Dallas team dropped to its knees, was loudest I have ever heard. Great anger

Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump

But while Dallas dropped to its knees as a team, they all stood up for our National Anthem. Big progress being made-we all love our country!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Ratings for this week’s games were not “way down”; in fact, every measure indicates that ratings for Week 3 would be up, particularly once the highly popular Cowboys’ appearance on “Monday Night Football” is factored in. . . .

The Cowboysknelt in unison before the anthem was even played. And here’s where things get sticky. There was indeed booing. (Put aside the president’s contention that it was the “loudest” ever. We’ve heard louder booing at children’s plays.). . . .

Why? Why was there so much “great anger”? This wasn’t during the anthem. This didn’t disrespect the flag. This didn’t alter the game or force anyone to do anything other than simply observe a silent, brief demonstration of unity. So why boo, unless you’re upset with players and owners showing any semblance of humanity at all? And if that’s the case, that says far more about the fans who boo than the NFL or its players.

The president also conveniently sidestepped the fact that protests exploded across the NFL only after heinsulted the league and its players over and over againacross a 72-hour period. While the initial protests focused on bringing awareness to police brutality, the Week 3 protests, andstatements from virtually every NFL team, were literally a defiant, definitive rebuke of Trump himself.

Incite rage, stoke division, fire up the base, then wonder why everyone’s so angry. " (SOURCE)

----------------------------------------

Talk football while N.Korea threatens civilization! Confused priorities, Donald?

Kate

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

What an admirable sacrifice!

& yes, standing as 1 is willing or able is traditional for the national anthem - putting your hand over your heart like you're pledging allegiance to the flag is new.

Hubby says if we were to be forced to stand for the anthem or flag, it wouldn't be worth it.

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chase_gw

If one is forced, ordered, compelled to stand for the anthem by the Government or by their employer at the Governments request........what does that say ?

That is what Trump wants to do ? Is that in keeping with his oath to defend the Constitution ?

Holy heck , if Trump supporters are behind him on this one I never want to hear them defend their beloved Constitution again.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

And here is what Stephen Colbert had to say about the NFL kneeling controversy. (Goes without saying, hilarious!)

Late Night’s Ruthless Takedowns of Trump’s NFL War: ‘This Has Everything to Do With Race’

Kate

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Kathy

Trump wants us to respect the flag.....the flag represents the rights and freedoms of American people. If blacks feel they are not treated equally in by LE their communities they have a right to kneel to bring attention to their cause. They are not disrespecting the flag...they are asking for the rights and respect it represents.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"Who’s Backing NFL Protesters? The Answer May Surprise You

. . . 61 percent, of Americans oppose firing NFL (National Football League) players who refuse to stand for the national anthem before football games in order to make a political statement.

These results stand in contrast to President Trump’s remarks over the weekend and his urging NFL teams to fire players who refuse to stand for the anthem.

A little more than a third (38 percent) of Americans align with Trump and support firing these players.

. . . Nearly two-thirds (65 percent) of Republicans say NFL players should be fired for this reason.

Only 19 percent of Democrats and 35 percent of independents agree.

. . . the survey finds that Conservatives (62 percent) are the only political group to support firing NFL players.

Conversely, 60 percent of Libertarians, 85 percent of Liberals, and 62 percent of Communitarians (social conservatives who support larger government) all oppose punishing players."

----------------------------

Hmm--Trump lost that popular vote also!

Kate

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ann_t

'I always stand for the national anthem and usually sing along. I have a flag that flew in the rotunda of the Reagan White House. I am so blessed to have been born in this country and had the opportunities available to me to be and do whatever I chose. My father fought in WWII, my dh in Vietnam. I choose to honor their service. I also choose to quietly protest those who would not stand when the anthem is played and won't be watching any NFL games or other sports until the practice ends."

Yes, you are blessed to live in a country that allows you to choose whether to stand for the national anthem or to sit or kneel. Whatever you chose.

But the minute you lose that right, you might not consider yourself so blessed.

You are not honouring your father or those that served their country by wanting to deny the right to free expression/free speech. You are dishonouring them.


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Maddie AtHome

Go re-read the threads on Charlottesville some are singing the exact opposite tune now.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Most of the comments by veterans that I see are along the lines of "I fought so that you have the right to protest" so comments that 'not protesting' is a way to honor those who fought just represents a misunderstanding.

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Nothing Left to Say

From facebook



Here is a candid shot of you being mad at Steph Curry and any NFL players who take a knee. There is no difference.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Trump wants us to respect the flag....

trump can't see beyond the fabric, a perfect example of his shallowness.

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mrskjun(9)

The players are free to protest in any way they wish. Guess what, I have that same right. I disagree with taking a knee when the anthem is being played and I am protesting by no longer watching sports or purchasing sports memorabilia. Don't I have that right?

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whynottryit

The players are free to protest in any way they wish. Guess what, I have that same right. I disagree with taking a knee when the anthem is being played and I am protesting by no longer watching sports or purchasing sports memorabilia. Don't I have that right?

Of course you do. However, POTUS does NOT have the right to tell the NFL to fire or suspend players for any reason. A player could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in NYC and POTUS would not have the right to tell the NFL whether or not to fire the player. The player could be tried, found guilty and sent to prison but if the NFL chose to keep that player on the payroll, it's not the president's call. That's what this whole uproar is about.

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momj47(7A)

The players are free to protest in any way they wish. Guess what, I have that same right. I disagree with taking a knee when the anthem is being played and I am protesting by no longer watching sports or purchasing sports memorabilia. Don't I have that right?

And has anyone criticized you for this choice, or stopped you from saying it, or suggested you be fired, or called you a b!tch?

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Nothing Left to Say

Of course you have the right to not watch the NFL, Mrskjun. And I have the right to tell you that your logic is faulty; your failure to support the First Amendment rights of others is unpatriotic; and your unwillingness to hear and understand from black people that their lives are impacted and threatened by systemic racism on a daily basis is wrong.

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SandyC.

The players have a collective bargaining unit. Trump is not a dictator and can not make them do anything.
This is just red meat for his " patriotic" base.
Many have been boycotting the NFL since last year, because of the treatment of Kaepernick.

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momj47(7A)

Mr. Trump's base is feeding on this red meat like hyenas

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mrskjun(9)

Oh please crl. Dems live for racism. They are the biggest racist of all. They use black people as a club against anyone who disagrees with them. So you tell me. Who gave blacks the right to vote? Sure as heck wasn't the dems. Who passed the Civil Rights bill? Sure as heck wasn't the dems. Dems pat themselves on the back every chance they get for electing a black president. So tell me, what did that black president and the dems do to make the lives of blacks better the past eight years. Chicago, democratic mayor, Detroit, democratic mayor, New Orleans, democratic mayor, Baltimore, democratic mayor. So stop with the racist right crap. Clean up your own house, look in the mirror, and clean that glass you are surrounded with.

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whynottryit

The players have a collective bargaining unit. Trump is not a dictator and can not make them do anything.

This is the part that confuses me about some of the conservative comments I've seen. Conservatives, traditionally, have wanted the Federal government out of business matters, fewer federal regulations, state control rather than federal, and, yet, if DJT makes a statement contrary to those core issues, such as meddling in the affairs of the NFL, those same conservatives are just fine with it.

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Nothing Left to Say

Mrskjun, why are you attacking me?

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whynottryit

Who passed the Civil Rights bill?

Civil Rights Act of 1964

ETA: Yes, it was the Dems.

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mrskjun(9)

Politifact

The Civil Rights Act -- which is best known for barring discrimination in public accommodations -- passed the House on Feb. 10, 1964 by a margin of 290-130. When broken down by party, 61 percent of Democratic lawmakers voted for the bill (152 yeas and 96 nays), and a full 80 percent of the Republican caucus supported it (138 yeas and 34 nays).

When the Senate passed the measure on June 19, 1964, -- nine days after supporters mustered enough votes to end the longest filibuster in Senate history -- the margin was 73-27. Better than two-thirds of Senate Democrats supported the measure on final passage (46 yeas, 21 nays), but an even stronger 82 percent of Republicans supported it (27 yeas, 6 nays).

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SandyC.
Where was Trump, when the Neo Nazis were marching down the streets of C'Ville, shouting Jews will not replace us? Did Trump call for the firing of the white supremacists shouting blood and soil, carrying confederate flags?
Mrsk, your what abouting is completing wrong, ever heard of the southern strategy?
It is not just Dems, opposed to Trump and the far far right. It is centrists, former republicans and millions of people who are appalled at the small minded, petulant, little man, who has chosen to pick a fight with young black, athletes who are protesting racial inequality and institutionalized racism, especially in the justice system in this country. All to throw red meat at his supposed "patriotic" base.
Patriotism comes in all forms and peacefully protesting is as American as apple pie.
The far right are probably the same people who believe the racial divide was widened by Obama, or who sit quietly by, as young unarmed black men are murdered by cops.
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Pidge

Smart thinking, whynottryit. But logic and consistency is not the forte of a lot of people.

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momj47(7A)

Oh please crl. Dems live for racism. They are the biggest racist of all.

You are not going to try that lie again. Give up kjun. It just won't work.

Do you even believe this carp anymore.

You drag it out whenever you have dug yourself into a hole spewing RW lies, hoping to distract while you struggle to climb out.

The Republicans happily, proudly, and willingly took the mantle of racism and officially encoded it in their Southern Strategy and political platforms in every election.

And Mr. Trump is the poster child for racism and intolerance, hate and injustice.

Sad, very sad.

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whynottryit

Sorry, mrskjun, percentages don't matter. It's not like polling. It's the number of votes. Not to mention it wouldn't have passed without the Kennedy and then Johnson pushing to get it through. But oh those tricky alternate facts.


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CindyMac(8b)

I disagree with taking a knee when the anthem is being played and I am protesting by no longer watching sports or purchasing sports memorabilia. Don't I have that right?


Will you be burning all your current memorabilia?

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Kathy

Trump has uses every issue he can find to divide the country. He has no interest in bringing the country together because when it comes down to his impeachment he will need his core base. Mueller right now is questioning the IRS about the campaign financial affairs. It is no wonder Trump is tweeting and deflecting.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Absolute numbers show that more Democrats voted for civil rights legislation. Fact.

Another fact: Which political party has used the Southern Strategy every presidential election since civil rights legislation was passed? Which political party has had two national party chairmen appear before the NAACP and apologize for the way African Americans were treated by their party.

Rewriting history cannot erase certain facts.

Why is it so hard to understand, and give consideration to the NFL players' protests. It's as if the players' words evaporate and disappear the second that they are pronounced.

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Kathy

Why doesn’t Trump want to discuss or acknowledge why players are kneeling?

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momj47(7A)

Because he has no idea why they are kneeling?

He just sees that most of them are black and Mr. Trump expects black men to know their place and stay there

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mrskjun(9)

Sorry, your own history up to the very present says more about the dems treatment of black people. Look at the cities where poverty, crime, and poor education is taking place. Run by democrats right? What have democrats done to make the lives of the black population better? Make lot's of promises when it comes election time? I wonder if they realize how the left uses them as a club against anyone who disagrees with them?

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whynottryit

What have Reps done in the last 100 years to help blacks? As for the cities that are now run by Dems, many of those cities are run by black Dems who would never have had the possibility of attaining that post had it not been for the Dem party. Also, those black mayors have not had a lot of time to undo the damage of the many generations before them. Is it possible that this argument is trying to use a straw man to keep from dealing with the core issue?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

MsK, please stop with your debunked talking points.

We understand that historical facts don't make a dent in your beliefs, but you constantly take untenable positions.

Do you not understand that there is a vibrant African American middle class, professional businesspersons, educators, and politicians -- just as there are among European Americans. (Same for Latinos, another favorite punching bag of conservatives.)

Do you not understand that poverty exists among European Americans. (We have seen that the GOP doesn't want to help them.)

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Pidge

You are just so out to lunch, mrs. Placing the reason for the racism that cripples so much of America's public and private life on a political party misses the point that white privelege knows no party. It's simply the system that white America has built over the course of hundreds of years, a system that allows someone like you to pretend that the problem has nothing to do with you. I wish you would grow up.

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

Mrsk, what rotunda in the White House?

As to your repetition of the parties' votes on the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, do you really honestly not understand? Southern Democrats became today's right wing Republicans. I know this has been explained many times to you, but if you are still confused, maybe this will help: "The division was geographic. The Guardian's Harry J. Enten broke down the vote, showing that more than 80% of Republicans in both houses voted in favor of the bill, compared with more than 60% of Democrats. When you account for geography, according to Enten's article, 90% of lawmakers from states that were in the Union during the Civil War supported the bill compared with less than 10% of lawmakers from states that were in the Confederacy.

Enten points out that Democrats still played a key role in getting the law passed.

'It was also Democrats who helped usher the bill through the House, Senate, and ultimately a Democratic president who signed it into law,' Enten writes."

I would also add that the Act was a priority for President Johnson who sought support and help from the NAACP (not too many Republicans there) and from Republicans. So please quit accusing crl and liberals, of which I am one, of being racists. We are not twisting ourselves into pretzels to justify our ideals and beliefs.


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purrmichigan(5)

I don't give a flying f what trump wants people to do when the national anthem is playing. Neither do the players or teams from what I've read - which is not much, because this is a non issue.

The real issues are Puerto Rico disasters and slow and nothing response from our government. People suffering extreme hardships and only now is the hospital ship being sent to PR and that will take more than a week to get there.

trump is responsible for this slow response - the buck stops with him. He can scurry around like the rat that he is, deflecting creating chaos that is none of his concern and certainly not in his job description. He's lying about Kelly's approval too.

Meanwhile Jared and Ivanka, the entitled duo, using private emails for government business. But, so long as the idiot flings out bs to stir up people and divide us further, then at least we're not calling on him to resign because he can't lead. As in, can't respond to disasters because he's pathologically unfocused.

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Ziemia(6a)

mrskjun- on that vote in 1964.... sure, ok .....

Then Dems saw the errors of their ways and changed. Those who disagreed with the change fled and joined the republican party - which welcomed them with open arms.

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CindyMac(8b)



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momj47(7A)

You still haven't told us if anyone has criticized you for your choice, or stopped you from saying it, or suggested you be fired, or called you a b!tch, mrskjun?

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mrskjun(9)

Right cyn...do you remember what Johnson said when he signed the Civil Rights Act?

Black mayors whynot? You mean like Rahm in Chicago or Mitch in New Orleans, Mike in Detroit?

Thank you pidge. Perhaps you can tell me why liberals club conservatives with racism at every turn if it's not about political party?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The criticism is squarely on the GOP. To the extent that conservatives support that party, they are supporting the Southern Strategy (and rolling back gay rights and women's rights).

No way to tap dance around that fact.

Edited to add: Mayor of Los Angeles is a non-partisan position.

Second edit: If conservatives are criticized for racial insensitivity (or worse) that criticism is based on what they say, propose, and condone. Do you think the critics just pull objections out of thin air?

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

I know what YOU think he said, but there is no proof of that.

ETA:. BTW, liberal/conservative are not political parties