SHOP PRODUCTS
Houzz Logo Print
sarahbr2

How to make areas flanking porch symmetrical?

6 years ago

I posted on here quite awhile back with a landscaping plan that was done for us. No one liked it and some other suggestions were given. I took those ideas to a new landscaper and this is what he came up with. I am not sure I love it but I really just want to move ahead. My biggest issue is that I want the areas on either sides of the front porch steps to be symmetrical ( I will also include the plan yardvaark made from the original post). The path is unfortunately not-moveable so the bed sizes on each side are quite different (6-7' on the left and 4-5' on the right). The landscaper says the boxwoods prevent any flowers from being planted in front on the right side (since there isn't enough space). I don't think I can stand the asymmetry. Any ideas? Also, any other suggestions? We are in 7a (southern NY) and have deer. I wanted a lot of flowers but also something that wouldn't be ugly in the winter. Thanks for any help.

and this is the plan yardvaark had made:

Comments (23)

  • 6 years ago

    Yes but the porch is which is why i was thinking I would do it just in the area in front of the porch (right in front of the railings). Do you think it would be weird having the boxwoods on both sides but then only the flowers on one?

  • Related Discussions

    Screened-in Porch- how to make cozy?

    Q

    Comments (20)
    Oh, wow- you guys are amazing!!! You have me excited! I think you've talked me out of curtains, ratherbesewing, you are right that they would attract pollen and dirt like crazy....and that would drive me crazy. There is a rug under the wicker furniture, but it is only a 5x7. I might look for a bigger one when I am at Ikea in a few weeks. The large silver thing is a propane heater. We actually don't use it often, and it could probably be put in the garage until the fall. More plants, vines, and candles are easy fixes- I can easily do that. deedee99, I love all of your suggestions! I hadn't thought of painting the table and chairs. The table is old, so I usually just put a tablecloth on it, but I love the idea of painting it. I also love ALL of your textile suggestions. teacats, I picked up some light for the tree today. :-) Thank you all!!
    ...See More

    Shaina japanese maple flanked by 2 coral bark jm: how much room aroud?

    Q

    Comments (9)
    Ivan, I think it is taking it down a few notches to introduce the alternating pattern of plantings. The look seems unsophisticated to me. (Not to say that an alternating scheme is always impossible. Sometimes, pulling it off relies on proper scale and usually involves radically different plant types.) I think you'd be much better off to use a triad grouping of coral bark and a line or single of the other. Too, I think you should be thinking of the CBM in a tree form, not in a shrub form as the above computer image appears. Ultimately, it's canopy is going to be above the fence rather than in front of it.
    ...See More

    The paint and stain are done! How do we make our front porch inviting?

    Q

    Comments (3)
    The bigger picture. There is a LOT of concrete here, folks. Entire area is 18 x 13, and the steps to the door are 6 x 4.
    ...See More

    How to add curb appeal and make closed in front porch less awkward?

    Q

    Comments (21)
    @Elaine Doremus Resumes Written Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately we were not able to find any images of the home from the past. I was hoping some folks on Houzz might be able to tell what style it originally was or at least give some good direction on how to we can restore it. For example I think the roof line may have originally gone straight back, instead of the second pitched section of the roof you can see on the left side. I apologize - I know I am not using the correct terminology! The home also has cheap vinyl replacement windows, so I would like to one day replace them. Maybe the anderson craftsman or farmhouse line? I wonder if we would change the scale of the windows at all...
    ...See More
  • 6 years ago

    No. The planting areas themselves are not symmetrical in size or shape so no earthy reason why the plantings should be :-))

    sarahbr2 thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
  • 6 years ago

    If you really, really, really want them to be symmetrical, of course you can redo the walk. All it takes is money.

    Otherwise, I would consider putting the 'flowers' in the alcove between the porch and the garage. What is there doesn't look right. Which way does the house face? That has a big bearing on what is and isn't practical.

    sarahbr2 thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
  • 6 years ago

    The front of the house faces north

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Because the new landscaper designed the one bed on one side of the steps to be much deeper (wider) than that on the other side, you end up with difficulty in symmetry. Whereas in Yaardvark's layout, the beds directly on either side of the steps are similar depth nearest the steps, so his design has a symmetrical appearance on each side of the steps.

    Could you not alter the bed lines a bit towards Yaardvark's layout, particularly on the left-side of the house, so as to try to get some semblance of symmetry - if that is really important to you?

    All that said, if you do want boxwoods to line the veranda, you probably don't have room for flowers in front of the boxwoods, at least on one side of the steps unless you change the front walkway. At least it doesn't look like there is room from the pictures.

    Also, a comment on the landscape plan that you show in picture #2 above - it is made up of a lot of little round balls - you might want to try to get some other plant forms in there - for example ornamental grasses. Perhaps look around on Houzz to get an idea of what you'd like.

    sarahbr2 thanked daylily
  • 6 years ago

    I really don't care for the soldier-ed rows of evergreens in picture #2. I assume this is what your landscaper drew?

    It gives the impression that the goal was to sell as many evergreens (and cram them in the space) as possible. And it looks like a formal English garden wannabe. Which doesn't suit your house.

    I have a very similar layout at my house. I am achieving symmetry by using similar plants on both sides of the door, but obviously in different quantities and arrangements.

    sarahbr2 thanked littlebug zone 5 Missouri
  • 6 years ago

    I think we may be confusing 'symmetry' with 'balance'. The concepts are quite different and one applies here while the other does not.

    sarahbr2 thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
  • 6 years ago

    Between being the north side of a two-story house, and deer, this is one of those project where you start with what will grow there, then figure out what to do with those few select plants. It isn't the normal situation where you come up with a design, then find the plants that fit.

    sarahbr2 thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
  • PRO
    6 years ago

    It looks to me like to you are trying to install smothering of the house by shrubbery and some busy-ness .... too many things in too small of a place. A major personal dislike of mine is a shorter hedge in front of a taller hedge and I see that going on in at least two places. I agree with symmetry in front of the symmetrical portion of the house, but not elsewhere. Planting must adapt to what the site offers. I don't know why you're insisting on boxwoods behind color if there is only room for color. The boxwoods should end and color should start.

    If you create a simple landscape and it lacks interest, it's pretty easy to add something. If you create a complicated landscape and later try to simplify it, it's much harder. If there was a question of should something be added or not, I would go simple and later add something when the scene was screaming out that it is needed.

    sarahbr2 thanked Yardvaark
  • 6 years ago

    I don't like the balls either but form what he told me, those are just the images. The plants would grow together. So those flowers on the ground on the left I think are phlox and should spread all over. The bushes could grow into one hedge (not sure if we'd do that in all areas or not). For the areas with shorter hedges in front of taller- I think it was just based on the depth. Would you just plant one hedge and leave like 3' or more empty? Sorry not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand what my other options are. Also I wanted a lot of flowers in the garden but he pointed out that in winter, things would be very sparse if we didn't do some evergreens. I do agree the right side (alcove and in front of the garage) is off but I can't figure out the solution.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    "Would you just plant one hedge and leave like 3' or more empty?" It would be better -- less conflict -- to have a low groundcover in front of a hedge, rather than another low hedge. Most of the time, the background hedge takes up more bed depth than homeowners typically allow.

    Plants don't generally "spread all over" unless the gardener purposefully makes them do that.

  • 6 years ago

    Just a very personal opinion but I find the current design that has been prepared for you to be to be unmitigatedly boring. You can use some of the plants he/she spec'd out, but Yard's design is far more vital with regards to selection and placement.

  • 6 years ago

    Before you start criticizing, you really need to understand the significant limits to plant choices at the site. It is a bunch of box because box is the only evergreen I can come up with that can handle shade and deer. Before you start you have to name the plants.

  • 6 years ago

    " you really need to understand the significant limits to plant choices at the site. It is a bunch of box because box is the only evergreen I can come up with that can handle shade and deer."

    Not in a zone 7!! The variety of broadleaved evergreen shrubs that are hardy in that zone increases exponentially from your zone 5 and a great many will be both shade and deer tolerant. Although the north side of structure is usually not nearly as shady as many assume.....little direct sunlight, yes, but still quite bright indirect light.

  • 6 years ago

    Then name them. Also, I'm not convinced this is really zone 7. 6b is more likely.

    So the list is? Inquiring minds want to know.

  • 6 years ago

    Abelia, pieris, rhododendrons and azaleas, Ilex sp. (holly), daphne, leucothoe, Prunus laurocerasus, Sarcococca sp., mahonia, Nandina domestica, Viburnum davidii, elaeagnus, Osmanthus heterophyllus, Skimmia japonica, some Vaccinium sp., various dwarf conifers, euonymus........

    Likely quite a few more but these off the top of my head and many hardy down to z6.

    If the OP's designers can't come up with something other than box, they are just not trying very hard.


  • 6 years ago

    Sorry, I didn't mean to cause a fight. I know nothing about plants or gardening. We moved from an urban area and never even had a yard so this is all new to me. I just want to get something in since it looks so sad now. Google told me we are 7. I just checked another site and it says 7a, but we're pretty close to areas of 6b. I think the plants in front of the porch were boxwoods and the ones by the alcove and garage were something else. Maybe one was juniper? I am going to look up some of those above plants you mentioned. I'd say we probably have a lot of indirect light because it's a new development so no big tress or anything anywhere blocking light. I am not saying what I have isn't boring. I just don't really know where to begin to change it. I don't like all of the repeating lines of bushes but a previous landscaper just put random plants everywhere (maybe over 20 types?) and that looked so wrong too so this guy I asked to simplify.

  • PRO
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    "I just don't really know where to begin to change it." Will not a single idea I gave you in the "inspiration sketch" work you? This is the freest place where you can get ideas. If none of them, or anyone else's who made suggestions here, are useful, about the only option left is to pay a local professional to provide ideas and plans. And then, ultimately, like what they give you.

  • 6 years ago

    Yardvaark- the whole thing works. That is what I gave to my landscaper. This is what he translated it into. I agree it's not the same. But he says things like, there is no large bush like that so we have to use the small balls. I am trying to find what I need to alter in his plan to get it close to what you did. I really like your plan and appreciate your work/input.

  • 6 years ago

    It sounds like you might need a designer better versed and experienced with plants that work in your area. You are not restricted to "balls" of anything and unless you have or desire a very formal look, pruning into balls requires an excessive amount of maintenance.......plus looks extremely unnatural. As to larger shrubs or even small trees, there are way too many of them available to list, provided you do not require a completely evergreen look.

    I am sorry you have now been through two different inperson renditions, neither of which have produced appropriate or acceptable results. Are these actually landscape designers you have been consulting with or just landscapers? There can be a huge gap in skill levels between the two!!

    Other than helping to broaden the palette with regards to plant selection and suggestions to move away from rigid lines of plants or hedging, I can't do more than offer advice......I don't share Yard's ability or inclination to provide any online renderings. But as I stated perhaps a bit too bluntly previously, the current design plan is over the top cookie-cutter boring. If that's what you like, fine. But if not, you need a much better designer than what you have encountered so far. Or take Yard's renderings into a better local nursery/garden center and have the staff there help you to pick out some more creative and interesting plant choices that fit that far superior layout and placement.

  • 6 years ago

    Is your landscaper talking about the images available in his drawing program? That he doesn't have enough to show what he would actually plant? Did he give you a plant list? what did he list on it?


    List of deer resistant plants

  • PRO
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    "But he says things like, there is no large bush like that so we have to use the small balls." What part of the country are there not umpteen large, medium and small shrubs that one can select from? I've lived in the Midwest, the South, the Atlantic coast, South Texas and central Florida. In none of these places has there been lack of large shrubs to choose from. South Texas might have been the most limiting, but not THAT much. One might have had to look a little harder. In the first place, I don't think you can toss a landscape design problem into the hands of a landscapER and necessarily expect it to get solved. There could automatically be forces working against you. Maybe he trades only at certain businesses with limited supply. Maybe he just doesn't know. He's not a designer. He's primarily an installer and maintainer. If designing is a significant portion of his business, it doesn't mean he's ever had any formal training in it. If he had, he'd bed calling himself a landscape designer or architect.

    In order to make this easier for you, I earlier transposed my inspiration sketch into a plan. All you needed to do, if you wished to use it, was select plant material based on your specific needs and desires. Even if you don't know plants, you only needed to look around your neighborhood/town and ask yourself, "What do I see that I like that would grow at the size shown in the inspiration sketch?" That shrub in front of Jane's house would work. Then find out what it is. You could submit pictures to the GardenWeb plant ID forum right here on Houzz. Or go to the nearest botanical garden, if there is one near where you live, looking for possibilities and learning plants. There are only about 2 to 4 different shrubs on the plan and 2 to 4 different perennials. It seems as if you don't want to apply any effort even though the hurdles have been removed.