In fairness, I should note that what I said about construction/renovation grinding to a halt when the hunting seasons open is also true of central Pennsylvania (and probably most rural, wooded areas).

Good luck. Read my current rant 'Why I built my own house' to see what happens when you actually DO get someone to show up. I did build my own house for the most part, but hired a few trades for things I can't (or don't want to) do. Many never return your calls, fail to show up, or start the job, and then get distracted elsewhere.

In my recent adventure, the subs were referrals from relatives of theirs, so I had a slight amount of leverage, and they did show up. It's like buying a new car, and discovering it has no steering wheel "You didn't mention that you wanted a steering wheel." Or the paint is pink with purple polka-dots. "It's not what's on the drawing/contract, but I think you're gonna like it."

Generally you have very few reliable subs. You do not need much education to be a contractor, this is something that plagued the building process.

>>7 calls to well driller, 5 calls to electrician

Ok, this is usual. You are someone they do not know.

>>how to apply for a building permit?

Call planning department. Same as everyplace else. Ask for requirements and cost. Most likely you will be leaving a message... You will get a call back.

>>4 contacts to different builders (plans/elevations sent) & nadda, zip, zilch

Typical

>> totally wrong advice & high price installation of a lane extension.

Duh, and you believed it? Really. Just because someone said "this is how I did it for 50 years" - under no circumstances means he was doing it right for 50 years. You can not trust anyone including inspectors or planning department employees. If someone has experience and your trust - is a different issue.

>>thanks.... just venting... y'all.

Chill. It will get better. Every builder struggles with unreliable contractors. Do what other builders do - steal reliable contractors from the competition.. He he he.

seriously your best bet in a situation like that is to know someone who knows someone. It took me years to develop my network of people I can actually rely on here in rural VA, but I now have people equal to or better than the trades I was using in the city. It's not overnight though.

I'm building in central NC. In my specific area of my county, more than 100 houses are being built. Everyone is behind due to demand. It took two weeks to get our footings dug; waited another two weeks for the brick masons (two weeks AFTER they said they would be there). We have a GC who has very specific subs/trades that he wants to use, so we are pretty much at their mercy. However, they do excellent work (our brick masons live 3 counties over and do excellent work, so they're worth it IMO).

>>how to apply for a building permit? - at this point, most communities have their requirements on the web somewhere. Check the town website. There should be a contact person that you'll have to reach anyway to actually DO it, and that person can verify what you need to do, but it will be good to read things over first, so you can both converse intelligently with each other about it.

PS, not hearing back is endemic just about anywhere, unless the economy is bad in a specific locale. On a different level, when I first had a plumbing problem back in my first home in the 80's (in CT), I went through the phone book alphabetically, and did not get anyone to call back until I got to the S's. I stuck with that plumber!

tats says:

In fairness, I should note that what I said about construction/renovation grinding to a halt when the hunting seasons open is also true of central Pennsylvania (and probably most rural, wooded areas).

Some of us were talking about this last weekend. Apparently there are areas in upstate New York that close schools for the first day or two of deer hunting season since they know attendance will be spotty, due to the start of season. Apparently, near everyone wants to bag a deer before they get skittish...

Carolina did you mean your comments for another thread? They have no relation to this one.

You're saying the wrong things. Well driller: "I'm at x place, Perc test results, want to get the permits this mont"

There is a good chance that the people you have tried to contact may have taken flight to here in Florida... especially if they are not full time, busy workers with good ethics. We in Florida were hit head on by hurricane Ida. It is just as Andrew, Jean and Sandy hit- there is so much damage that unscrupulous people who are not great tradesmen come down here charging ridiculous rates for anything. I understand you just want decentvmanners. People seem to have less and less manners and less brain cells in this era. I hope you find someone reliable who actually knows what he/she is doing. Be strong. Can you do any of the work yourself? Good luck.

Welcome to the land of full construction employment. It's even harder now for the owner of a single project to get any attention.

If in Hickory, NC, pm me. My builder is an average $ which can be trust, especially no mortgage involved! He has the best framer team, masonry guys. They are not fast but best and reasonable! Even David Looper commercial builders were using them!

In my experience it's not a regional problem, it's pervasive throughout the construction industry. Fortunately I have a great contractor who has completed several projects at my house over the years ( one a major total to the studs remodel ), anytime I hire someone else for a smaller job ( because my contractor is VERY in demand ) I am sorry. Big % of flakes in the industry, I mentioned it to him & he agreed. Relatives & friends in other States agree

You're not going to get too far with your attitude. Everyone knows everyone in the south. Word travels. Better re-read Sophia Wheeler's post above. Take it to heart. Better yet, maybe you should build up north or out west or in a different country.

The economy fluctuates. It wasn't too very long ago that people in the construction industry couldn't find work. Things are booming right now, but it won't last forever. It never does. When things turn around again, homeowners should remember how they were treated and hire (or not) accordingly. If I wanted to build a house, I'd set things up so I'd be ready to build when things go south again in the construction industry and people don't have much work. Then, I'd just sit back and wait.

If I wanted to build a house, I'd set things up so I'd be ready to build when things go south again in the construction industry and people don't have much work. Then, I'd just sit back and wait.

There was another thread recently about timing the market (ie, sell existing home while market is hot, rent until it slows and then build at lower prices). The consensus was that is easier said than done. But I will say that if the stars align, I would prefer to build during a slowdown for the construction industry. We built our first custom home in 2009 and had a great experience, which I think was largely due to the down market. The house was completed in 5 months as we were the only house any of the subs were working on at the time. They were hungry for the work, appreciated having the work, and did good work. The price was also significantly lower than we could build the same house for today. Our neighbors were surprised when we sold that house a few years ago, since most of them are still underwater having built during the boom years.

Do you have an architect? I hope you're not trying to do all this yourself. You need an advocate.

Most of these post portray us construction workers in a very negative way. Most of you are trying to build a super house on a limited budget and expecting us to be so grateful for the work we just throw in the difference. None of us are responsible for subsidizing your standard of living. Try a different approach for better results.

Timing the construction market...

Well...every financial advisor I've ever heard says don't try to time your investments in the financial markets...why would anyone think they can organize their lives, jobs, interim housing, land purchase, zoning and design regulatory approvals and custom home design, bidding and construction to the ups and downs of the construction and financing markets?

If you think you can do it, good luck...let us know how it goes for you.

I don't really consider a home that someone is planning to live in to be an investment, especially a custom-built home. To me, it's a place to live. Unless someone is planning to sell later and make a profit (money that won't just go into the next house they're going to live in), I just don't see how it's an investment. It's one thing if you have no choice and you have to move when prices are high, but, making a choice to build or buy during booms, when it costs more, just doesn't make any sense to me. It's like making a choice to burn a lot of money because you're impatient. Plus, the way property taxes are here, you end up paying (it can be a lot of money) for that choice for as long as you own that house, which could be forever.

Bottom line is IF you want a custom home, your personal non sub division lot, your own lane and well, and every detail tailored to you? Plan on a speedy 24 month process from architect, to picture nails in your walls and a patio in back. Longer if you're very picky, are an engineer by trade, or desire to live in a super hot market. C'est la vie : )

I'm a general contractor in Toronto and for many clients who have contacted me, their prior experience with many GC's has been the same as the OP's: calls not returned, scheduled appointments not kept, etc. Which is all alien to me; I will always call back, I will keep my appointments - and if I'm not interested in the job (because I'm too busy, or the job is too small or too far away, etc.), I will tell you right away so you can move on to the next guy. Why this is so hard for some people to do, I just don't get.

"Longer if you're an engineer by trade"--I've had several contractors tell me that working for me is like "working for an engineer, except you're NOT CRAZY." I think it's a compliment. ;)

Dude, I seriously don't get all of the negative Engineer comments on these forums, lol!!! (It's not just this thread.... :-D )

I love Engineer types -- they are absolutely so stinkin' adorable -- my husband, my best friend (female), and my husband's best friend (male), all have degrees in math/physics-heavy Engineering fields. :-)

The logical, analytical way they approach and deal with things is invaluable; seems like remaining calm/emotionally stable during a home build would be a huge plus, lol.

My husband's personality is also very decisive; our best friends are soooo not decisive, though, so maybe that's where the "crazy" stereotype comes from? (I can kinda see how that might be a little irritating at times.)

You can't talk down to people just because they talk different than you do. Someone is cutting off their nose to spite their face. This project will never get built.

Analytical ? Uh............... yes hon: ) Trust me. We Know. It's called "analysis paralysis"

^^^ and that would be the aforementioned 'talking down to people'. But then the corollary to follow would be that designers make decisions that don't relate to budget or practicality and are only driven by the visual. But of course you know that's not true - at least not across the board - any more than saying all engineers analyze to extremes. My experience with an engineer DH is that he DOESN'T dither in decisions (sometimes I wish he would look at more options) because in his mind either things are properly engineered or they're not and there's no question about what to do. As for design decisions, he defers to me 90% of the time so when something is important enough to him to voice an opinion, I listen.

But we're far off topic and I'd like to hear back from the OP - sadly, as often happens with the 'build shaming' that goes on here we often don't hear back.

Wow, no wonder Kay didn't add more comments... We did whole house remodel in Florida acting as GC and it was border line doable. Wouldn't try to build here without GC. Even one who returned your call, you have to supervise 100%. Had some excellent people working for us, but most trying to cut corners and do the way they did before regardless your explanation... Not sure it is South, just busy period and cheap labor.

"Dude, I seriously don't get all of the negative Engineer comments on these forums, lol!!! (It's not just this thread.... :-D )"

Having been one of the posters having made negative comments about engineers/architects, I can substantiate my claims. Of course one can't stereotype, but I'd work for a lawyer before an engineer.

These guys seem to think that just because they're good at math, that somehow makes them a carpenter. It does not. I have saved many of them from themselves many times. I've been instructed to put (18) clips on a sink, when it was impossible to fit them. I've cut huge store fixtures in half in the shop because even a lowly shop carpenter knows a 14' backisland won't fit into a 12' service elevator to make it to the second floor of the department store.

Let's have a little more respect for the tradespersons and a little less reverence for the pencil pushers. Yeah, these guys have a sheepskin, but they still put their pants on one leg at a time. From the repeated arrogance of some, you'd never know it.

As we love to say down here in Georgia, Delta is ready when you are.

(One Devoted Dame I'm with you..as I am with Jan Moyers..)))

one thing you can be sure of-each time I hear a word "engineer" on these forums my excitement makes my ears move..)) I'm like a rabbit with a carrot..

..wife on an engineer here. actually he has a Ph D in physics.

not only he's adorable; he's just one of the best people I ever met. ever.

yet takes approximately ten minutes to figure out he's an engineer. I bet can drive crazy..

but. you know sun has spots too.

I also didn't like this or that while working with our GC and his trades, but was able to see the Sun. besides the spots. it's people.

never a dull moment when comes to people.

let alone professions-some people are impossible simply when they're hungry. and you wouldn't know lol. you'd think "a grown up person could wait some more and still behave between meals". but i have a couple friends like that. they're seriously becoming less civilized unless they're fed..:)

have you ever met an ideal person? and why should you meet them at all, I bet they're boring as hell thus don't exist. it contradicts the whole point of Creation lol

as for what's considered polite..I'm sure widely varies. I always "underpromise and overdeliver". Not to return someone's call-that's not me. Don't let people hang in the air and never promise when not deadly sure. I say "I'll try" then it's done. Drives some crazy; but they're pleasantly surprized the next morning.

But different people do things differently.

As superbly illustrated in Nabokoff's "Lolita"-there's an epizode there where a guest doesn't flush the toilet because to him it's more rude to make noise by flushing in somebody else's house.

I won't add anything new by saying it's crazily busy now in construction..probably everywhere. Here-crazily busy. Our handyman is usually a rock that's always there; yet we wait for couple months already. Especially him being good..and us spreading the word about him ourselves..what else can you expect? It unfortunate for us yet I'd rather wait for him..

NC is slammed - so much construction going on it is hard even for people who have been in the business for generations to line up subcontractors. Which part of NC are you looking to build? I recently posted a similar post - I was having a hard time getting quotes for hardware. One of the stores have not responded in a month now. I found another vendor, also in the South. They were much better although there was still a slight delay.

Reading through the comments slowly. OMG, mrspete, I was saying the same thing to so many people - here I am, I did all the work, just take my money, deliver the product. No money takers! Nobody wants my business. Then it turned out, like I said, everybody is overstretched, trying there best not to say no and do what they can to get the work done. I wish people would communicate more along the lines of "Hey, we are overbooked, understaffed, etc. We got your email, will respond in a week"

If the communication sent by email is as "coherent" as often appears in these threads? It is clear that some will go to deletes without being opened!

That's ninety percent of every misunderstanding on any issue anywhere over anything,

Thank you I phone.......

This reminds me of Christmas shopping in some places...sometimes I just don't realize how difficult it can be to spend my money!

As an engineer, in a family full of them, I understand how some habits can drive others crazy. Engineers just approach problems differently...doesn't mean right or wrong, but certainly different. One of my favorite engineering mindset explanations is about the classic question of "Is the glass half full or half empty?"

An engineer would say that anyone who can't easily determine the answer needs to use a different glass for measuring. Non engineers are welcome to fill and empty the glass with their favorite spirit, while the engineers are deciding which glass should be used for the task. Repeat until a majority of the engineers agree or you don't care any more.

Linda, if you were filling a glass at the sink and somebody asked how far you are along with it, you'd most likely say "it's half full." You'd probably never say "it's still half empty."

So to my logical mind the answer to the "glass full/glass empty" question has always been simple: A glass is half full if you're in the process of filling it. It's half empty if you're in the process of emptying it.

Well...an architect would simply say, "You have the wrong size glass!"...easy-peasy!

Whether it's half full or half empty, it's clearly twice as big as it needs to be.

I'm an architect in Brooklyn, but I'm originally from the Carolinas so I can totally understand. Every time I go back home, I feel like everything slows down a bit. In any case, I have a number of contacts there - please reach out if you would like for me to lend a hand! 864.293.9614 / matthew@rauchandco.com

(And no, I don't own a gun....)

I'm sorry you're frustrated! Some of these comments are very snippy and assuming the worst. But even in slow construction areas it's not uncommon to get runaround for single shingle jobs. Annoying, but true. Networking is your friend here - an architect, project planner or GC can help a lot.

We are building and acting as our own GC, and I feel your pain on the lack of respect.

If you haven't already, start calling for work in the winter and spring if possible. That's a slower time of year and you can get better response time, or booked nice and early for a pour or install in a few months. This time of year is the WORST because contractors and subs are often scrambling to complete existing jobs by that ran over their summer schedules, in my experience.

here are a few details since a pandora's box of speculation is all over the map.

started the process of finding contractors at the end of april with the idea of a fall/winter build.

house is 1 story, 30x40, on piers, 2 bdr, 2 bth. so my 'lavish' lifestyle will be housed basically in a trailer in the sky. ( to pigeon hole the style, would be mid-century-ish).

i would wait 2-3 weeks, between phone calls, mainly because of the amount of rain pouring down from the sky and i was well aware of weather delays and the havoc that creates for building.

my wonderful septic guy Carl was a peach. returned my calls, let me know of delays, showed up when he said he would, did a fantastic job & i am for ever in his debt. the flip side of carl tho? evidently he was a spoiler for my expectations in contractors.

i was my own GC for my yankee house and also for an elderly neighbor's home.

and most of all. i do not hate the south. southern's are the most kind, polite, gentle, most friendly people i have ever met..... always a wave hello, always a smile. they just hate to use the phone?

if at any time anyone would have said- 'job is to small, not worth my time, your plans suck, you are crazy, don't ever call me again, kicked my dog or called my children ugly.' i would say thanks and move on to find someone else. not a problem.

the reply's to my feeble attempt at a rant, and humor have been enjoyable. if i lived under your skin, i take it as a kind of a zen thing, accept my apology for inadvertently pushing a button, but i probably saved someone else. to those who sympathized and offered help, advice and patience, i thank you. and the wise sage who wrote rude behavior would be turning a job down, and it is not rude to never return phone calls- you gave me a light-bulb moment. i now know how to start the conversation.

so...... let's all lighten up, just saying.

"I met with 4 contractors today and and will see 5 tomorrow,"

Design Results:

I cannot tell you how grateful I am that I'm not one of the 8 contractors whose time you've wasted. Were I a general contractor, at out initial conversation, I would have asked how you got my name. With the right answer, you would have found your contractor and I wouldn't be in a line of 8 losers.

Gosh ya'll I'm from the deep south and didn't take offense to kay kin's vents. I was there myself 8 years ago and remember the frustration....give her some room to vent. It will all be ok, everyone chill ;)

"Dude, I seriously don't get all of the negative Engineer comments on these forums, lol!!! (It's not just this thread.... :-D )"

I'm married to an engineer. Many of our friends are engineers. They're a breed unto themselves -- dry sense of humor, a little nerdy, typically introverted, often heavy drinkers, not anti-social but differently social. The Star Trek stereotype didn't come from nowhere. Oh, and they do need help dressing themselves. A certain personality type and skill set is attracted to this job (the same is true of many other jobs), and many of them are just a bit out of step with the rest of society.

Obviously I like this personality type -- as I said, I married one; and, to tell the truth, every guy I dated seriously was an engineering major or an engineer -- but not everyone quite "gets them".

One more thing about engineers: An astonishing number of them marry teachers. I'm one of eight teachers in my departments, and five of us are married to engineers. The two personality types go together.

It's been my experience that venting is not welcome here....

However, I don't mind it at all. I KNOW a vent is a vent and not a personal attack on anyone.

Those of you here who have NEVER been frustrated...well good for you and I would bet my last dollar that you're lying.

Your 'frustrations'() only remind me what I said 25 years ago...."I will NEVER NEVER NEVER BUILD ANOTHER HOUSE!!!!!*!#!. I should know by now...never say 'NEVER'...... I am now searching for some land to build another house. Yes, this will be smaller and more simple but I am still dreading all the bullcrap from contractors who think women know nothing about contracts/building practices/costs. I will continue to ask questions and learn beforehand. Thanks Dad, for making me learn to use tools many tools properly, insisting that I learn techniques in case anything happened to my parents, so I would grow up independent and self sufficient. (But I still hated waking up to Reveille). College does not teach you about the crooked liars. So- I hope your build goes better.

I've only read your post, Mrs Pete, and liked reading it cause so well said.

NC was hit much harder than much of the U.S. during the recession and was very slow to come out of it. The labor pool left the state so there is a shortage unlike anything we have seen in the 15 years we have been in residential construction. Foundations sit for months waiting to get a framing crew to come. Everyone that we know is working 6-7 days a week as hard as they can go. No one is lounging around and not everyone hunts. Remodelers don't have the clout to lure resources from new home building so they wait to get certain subs. Subs can't find workers and prices have now doubled. Be prepared and organized with the information regarding your project. Do your homework to locate one or two good GC's or remodelers in your area. Find one you feel you can communicate with and trust and then get on their waiting list - most likely for this time NEXT year. Make sure your budget and project scope are in line with market rates - otherwise no one will deal with you. (Hanley Wood Cost vs Value Report is pretty much spot on for pricing in NC.) Keep in touch regularly (but don't be obnoxious) to make sure you are still on the radar screen with this person. Most of the large projects we know of in process right now (regardless of which GC/remodeler is doing the job) were people that got on the builder's schedule last summer.

" Subs can't find workers and prices have now doubled."

And wages haven't risen, hence your labor shortage.