Massive earthquake strikes off Mexico coast, bringing death & tsunami
Hareball
6 years ago
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A paradox, no?
Comments (56)Much like my friend from Oklahoma, I see no brawl either just some folks sharing their differing opinions and that is a good thing. I have to admit that I was hoping that some of the "Green Party" folks would eventually show up. Fulfilling my wishes, they did. A couple earnest people have questioned the facts that I selectively chose from "right-leaning sources". Of course, true to form, they selected only "facts" from "left-leaning sources". To really add muster to the point I am attempting to make, we even got to witness an element from the whacko-fringe, who only registered on this forum that very day to spew his "facts" and brand me a coward. I have always felt this element continues (sadly) to inflict harmful impact to the credibility of the ecology movement as a whole. Facts what exactly are facts? I am not really sure that I can say with any amount of certitude. Both sides of almost any issue can banter back and forth all day long, citing sources that deduce quantities of data into diametrically opposed conclusions. As the old joke goes, told in my first session of a statistical analysis class in 1969 at Iowa State University: Question: What do the statistics say? Answer: What do you want them to say? Any more, I am very dubious about forming an opinion based upon "facts" until I know the agenda of the one promoting that selective set of "facts". One of our participants has now encouraged us to view a movie with a collection of "facts" provided by a politician who at one time claimed to personally invent the Internet. This guy has lived a life filled with agendas. Facts? Hmmm Not having even done so, I could probably go to a right-leaning source (say, perhaps Rush Limbaughs website) that would present another collection of facts to refute everything the movie contends. Unfortunately, ecology awareness (choose your own preferred term) has become hopelessly ensnarled in politics. It seems like every word used is defined differently, depending upon who is doing the using. Bill Clinton illustrated this technique well when he famously said: "It depends upon what the definition of "is", is." If you take the example of my "fact" about there being more trees today than when the country first began. Firstly, the numbers are extrapolated estimates from both dates. If you pay careful attention to the typical phrasing of the data (Can any estimate truly be considered data?), the left likes to use the term, "cover". More in: "Statistics clearly show that there was X percentage more forest cover in the 1700s than at present." On the other hand, the right seems to prefer the term, "number of trees". How exactly do the terms, "forest cover" and "number of trees" directly equate? Do they really mean the same thing or, are both sides trying to promote their chosen agenda? I suspect BOTH sides are fudging a bit. However, I dont think either side is using words that are not technically truthful. More to the point: Lets say you and I have a 1 acre pot of land side by side. On your ground, you have a huge, 100 year-old bur oak tree growing on a savanna. On my identical plot, I have just planted 200 oak saplings. Without question, it would be a true statement that your single tree provides many, many times more cover than my saplings. However, it is equally true that I have 200 times as many trees on my ground than you do on yours. Does it make sense that we now begin arguing over who is more environmentally conscious than the other? I have grown weary of the exaggerations of both sides. I have grown weary of the name calling. I have grown weary of the smarmy politics. I have grown weary of activists (on both sides) telling me what I should either do and/or believe. I have grown weary of being told "the sky is falling" when I can look around and see the many improvements that have happened in my lifetime. (Yes, there is still a lot left to do.) I have grown weary seeing the good, hard work by dedicated, environmentally concerned folks suffering serious, repetitive setbacks to their cause at the hands (or mouth) of a few whackos. What I would now most like this thread to do is move beyond the politics and return to discussing what precipitated this thread at the onset: People like our friend, NYwoodsman, who feels landscape design has nothing to offer him and further believes landscaping issues fail to adequately embrace nature. His arguments are not totally without merit for a certain segment of society. Personally, I think it is possible to do both. I even suggested one example for him with an enhanced incorporation of spring ephemerals into his woodland. In an essentially treeless paradigm of the prairie, I see far too much opportunity squandered by both "the green crowd" and landscape professionals. It seems to me that by an unconsciously self-imposed sequestration, both "sides" remain blind to the opportunity afforded by mutual cooperation. Is anyone else interested in exploring this? IronBelly...See MoreInsane amounts of rain
Comments (29)Just returned from southern California myself and I'm very glad to have missed the worst of it. The Malibu fire had just started early Sunday morning but when we drove up to Venice midmorning the smoke was already hanging in this heavy layer over south LA county. Drove back through the passes from Palm Springs late Saturday only to learn that they are on fire as well and the road we traveled is currently closed! I am very relieved my sister lives right on the coast but not near any major canyons, so hopefully she is safe. Although, she is pretty well ringed by fires, being midway between Malibu and San Diego and with fires burning in the canyons to the east. When we spoke yesterday, she said ash was everywhere, the sun was obscured by a thick haze and you could write your name in the film of ash on her computer screen! Laguna Beach did suffer from a pretty devasting brush fire in the early 90's and they have gone to great lengths to reduce their fire hazards but this current situation sure illustrates how easily these things can spring up and race with abandon, consuming everything in their path. I feel very bad for those in more vulnerable situations and I hope things improve there rapidly but conditions are not on their side :-(( As to SoCalifornians moving north because of this, I wouldn't look to a huge exodus. They readily put up with smog and poor air quality, abyssmal traffic conditions, the possibility of landslides and continual earthquakes of varying degrees of severity, not to mention annual brushfires prompted by the heat and Santa Ana's. In exchange they enjoy an incredibly temperate and balmy climate and those killer beaches. Few seem to be ready to give that up in favor of damp, gray NW winters that last forever :-) And there is that California lifestyle that just is not duplicated here........thank goodness!...See MoreTrees
Comments (40)Quercus virginiana (veer-jin´-ee-AHN-a) is indigenous to a large area of North America from the coastal regions of southern Virginia and North Carolina southwards into the West Indies, eastwards into the southern half of Arkansas and the eastern half of Texas and southwards from there into Mexico. It is hardy in zones 7 through 11. The Live Oak or SOUTHERN LIVE OAK is not only the worlds most beautiful and impressive Quercus species but is also one of the most adaptable of all trees and will thrive not only in cool and moist climates but in hot and arid ones as well if it is watered; it is, of course, most at home in hot and humid regions and these areas, especially the Gulf Coast region of the southern United States, are where it attains its greatest proportions. Some of the largest and most venerable old trees are found within 100 feet of the seashore along the Gulf of Mexico and show that the tree is tolerant of salty spray as well as a low degree of salinity in the soil; these old matriarchs have a number of times been flooded with salt water during hurricanes and tropical storms. Almost all oaks live to great ages and the evergreen species, as a whole, live longer than the deciduous forms, but none are known to reach the age and size of the Southern Live Oak; there are trees still alive that are estimated to be more than 2000 years old. The tree grows to as much as 70 feet and its spread is sometimes the better part of 200 feet in very old specimens. The trunk is exceedingly massive for a tree not indigenous to hot tropical rain forests and some old trees have trunk diameters (not circumferences) of more than 8 feet. The trunk is very low-branched and, in old trees, the great horizontal lower limbs often sweep the ground; on southern estates and the few remaining old plantations of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia this phenomenon is often accompanied by cabling or other structures to hold the limbs off the ground and to allow the grass to be mowed beneath them. The limbs of the tree grow almost entirely in a horizontal fashion and they are more or less contorted, especially on old trees. The bark of the Live Oak is deep gray to almost black in color and is distinctly fissured and longitudinally ridged. The deep green leathery leaves are 3 to 6 inches long, elliptic to mostly oblong in shape and more or less glossy above but grayish or white and pubescent beneath; leaf margins are mostly smooth but can also be remotely toothed and the edge of the leaf is sometimes rolled under to some extent. The Live Oak naturally sheds its leaves in late winter to mid spring as the new ones start to grow and the beauty of an immense old tree covered in the luminous light green of its new growth is one of the great botanical wonders the world has to offer. The tree is also reported to be naturally deciduous--i.e., not briefly so but rather for a considerable period during the winter--in the northernmost and/or coldest parts of its range and zones of adaptability. The tree is fast growing, especially when young, if provided with adequate and regular amounts of moisture and a soil that is not overly limy. The species is variable as to size and form and there are several different naturally occurring varieties at the extremities of the trees range, none of which in any way matches the glory of the type as they are generally much smaller in stature and slower growing. There is no more beautiful thing on the face of the earth than an old live oak; it matches the grandeur and beauty of even the largest tropical banyans and, especially when festooned with Spanish Moss (Tillandsia usneoides), is a sight that can bring a lump to the throat and a tear to the eye....See MoreTsunami Disaster.....avoidable?
Comments (70)Tsunami-Generating Earthquake Near U.S. Possibly Imminent By Robin Lloyd Special to LiveScience posted: 03 January 2005 07:21 pm ET There are only two places in the United States where colliding tectonic plates could cause a major tsunami, and new studies show a new earthquake in at least one of these locations could be imminent. The Cascadia subduction zone, a 680-mile fault that runs 50 miles off the coast of the Pacific Northwest -- from Cape Mendocino in California to Vancouver Island in southern British Columbia -- has experienced a cluster of four massive earthquakes during the past 1,600 years. Scientists are trying to figure out if it is about to undergo a massive shift one more time before entering a quiescent period. "People need to know it could happen," said U.S. Geological Survey geologist Brian Atwater. The historical record for this zone, which has the longest recorded data about its earthquakes of any major fault in the world, shows that earthquakes occur in clusters of up to five events, with an average time interval of 300 years between quakes, said Chris Goldfinger, a marine geologist at Oregon State University. Goldfinger and other scientists have been studying this subduction zone for many years. At the Cascadia subduction zone, an oceanic tectonic plate called the Juan de Fuca is pulled and driven (subducted) beneath the continental North American plate, setting up conditions for undersea "megathrust" earthquakes The two most recent quakes on this fault occurred in the year 1700 (a magnitude 9 event) and approximately the year 1500. It has now been 305 years since the last event. So is the Cascadia subduction zone finished for now or on the brink of event number five? "We know quite a bit about the periodicity of this fault zone and what to expect," he said. "But the key point we dont know is whether the current cluster of earthquake activity is over yet, or does it have another event left in it." At the Cascadia subduction zone, an oceanic tectonic plate called the Juan de Fuca is pulled and driven (subducted) beneath the continental North American plate, setting up conditions for undersea "megathrust" earthquakes. The Cascadia subduction zone occurs where the relatively thin Juan de Fuca plate moves eastward and under the westward-moving North American Plate. When that collision results in a rupture, massive earthquakes occur. The other active subduction zone capable of producing a major earthquake-tsunami sequence is in Alaska, the site of a giant earthquake and subsequent tsunami in 1964. Scientists say a rupture along the Cascadia fault would cause the sea floor to bounce 20 feet or more, setting off powerful ocean waves relatively close to shore. The first waves could hit coastal communities in 30 minutes or less -- too rapidly for the current warning systems to save lives. A tsunami along the Atlantic Coast is considered extremely unlikely. Tsunamis are the result of sudden rises or falls in a section of the earths crust under or near the ocean, usually caused by earthquakes, volcanic activity or landslides. Earthquakes at subduction zones (rather than at other types of faults such as thrust faults) produce the highest energy tsunamis, especially when they occur in deep water. The seismic activity displaces sea water, creating a rise or fall in the level of the ocean above. This rise or fall in sea level initiates the formation of a tsunami wave. The waves height increases in shallower water. Geologists can track earthquakes back in time by radiocarbon dating deposits of sand called turbidites, which come from undersea landslides. Major studies on the Cascadia fault zone have identified 19 to 21 major earthquake events during the past 10,000 years. During at least 17 of these events, the entire fault zone probably ruptured at once, causing an earthquake around magnitude 9 and major tsunamis, such as those which savaged East Asia last week. The Asian event happened where the India plate was subducted beneath the Burma microplate. It ruptured, for the first time since 1833, along a 600-mile front just about the same length as the Cascadia Subduction Zone. The Asian event may provide a shocking demonstration of the geologic future of the Pacific Northwest, Goldfinger said. For hundreds of years, subduction zone plates remain locked in place, releasing little tension. Every few centuries, in a few minutes of violence, forces are released as the upper plate moves seaward, producing a massive tsunami following earthquake shaking. "In the case of the Cascadia Subduction Zone, you could have an area of ocean floor thats 50 miles wide and 500 to 600 miles long suddenly snap back, causing a huge tsunami," Goldfinger said. "At the same time, we could expect some parts of the upper, or North American, plate to sink one to two meters. These are massive tectonic events. Subduction zones produce the most powerful earthquakes and tsunamis in the world." The question is not whether, but when the Cascadia Subduction Zone will break again. "One possibility is that we could be done with this cluster and looking at a period of many hundreds of years before the next earthquake," Goldfinger said. "The other distinct possibility is we could still be in a cluster of events. If thats the case, the average time interval between earthquakes within a cluster is already up. We would be due just about any day." The Associated Press contributed to this report...See MoreHareball
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rob333 (zone 7b)