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anthony_chen

Need help designing a kitchen remodel

Anthony C
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

Hi everyone, Im looking for opinions on appliances and kitchen layout.

We bought a house built in the mid 90s and want to remodel the kitchen. We are also moving the style from traditional to transitional/modern. The floors are going to be a medium brown brazilian chestnut.

There are 3 rooms impacted by the remodel. From left to right, living (formal living), kitchen and family (casual living). Currently there is a wall between the formal living and kitchen, we want to take that wall down. We then want to put a wall between the kitchen and the casual living and turn the casual living into an office workshop.

This is the casual living living looking into the kitchen. Off to the right are very nice views. The new wall would start right at the stairs and run behind the couch all the way to the right

This is the formal living. The wall to the right would be taken out to open this living to the kitchen.

This is the original plan

This is what Im leaning towards

Right now the stove is an electric in the island. We want to add a 48 inch gas rangetop along the right wall. Leaning towards viking with a griddle, but am rethinking getting a capital culinarian. Zephyr vent hood. Pot filler above stove as my wife isnt supposed to lift anything above 35 pounds.

on the south wall a viking convection microwave, french door oven and warming drawer. To the right is the refrigerator, just going counter depth instead of built in. To the right of that is going to be a "appliance garage" that we will use as a covered desk.

On the north wall a bosch panel dishwasher.

Small sink in the island, more in the middle than in the picture. A wine refrigerator on the left side of the island facing the peninsula. Not sure what type to get as Im struggling to justify a $2000-3000 24 inch wine refrigerator.

Bottom right corner is a pantry

Most of the cooking would be in the refrigerator, island sink, pantry rangetop rectangle.

We cook a lot. Lots of seared steaks/fish, and stir fry at least once a week, need low simmer for sauces. We have parties of about 50 people about 4-5 times a year.

Cabinets are white shaker style, countertops will be a whitish quartz, pulls will be a euro drawer pull in gold (ugh).

We were considering leaving the casual living open to the kitchen but I think the space doesnt work as well that way.

Current bids are around 80k for the kitchen not including appliances which are running about 15k. Cabinets are about 23K fully installed. The kitchen is pier and beam so easy access to run gas lines, electrical etc for the stove. The sink in the island would go where the bar to the casual living currently is which has a small sink so the plumbing is there already.

Comments (35)

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    That is really interesting that hadnt occurred to me at all. We have friends who have exactly that setup and it does look great. I think they have a fireplace between the dining and the living.


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  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    If you can provide a drawing with dimensions of the present family room we can offer more detailed suggestions for putting a kitchen in there.

    Anthony C thanked sheloveslayouts
  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Even though I love the idea, I think it is going to be too much work. We are able to preserve most of the electrical and plumbing with the proposed configuration and I get a big workshop. The current dining room as an office is a bit too small.


  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    I am curious to get feedback though on the plan as is. Ive read other posts where people's plans get ripped apart for flow and I want to make sure we get it right and are spending about the right amount of money.


  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Got a bid back for taking down the wall, 25,000 which seems a little high. Any thoughts about how much it should cost to take down the wall?

  • cpartist
    5 years ago

    It depends on whether or not it's a support wall. If it's a support wall and very long, then no, that's not too high a price.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    got a little more info, the 25k is for removing the load bearing wall and refinishing the drywall. Building the new wall, plumbing, gas, electrical, water for stove (8 outlets). removal of all cabinets, removal of pantry and rebuilding the new pantry. Everything pretty much to be ready to install the cabinets.


    cabinets are 23K. Im estimating countertop/backspashes at 8k, sink and fixtures at 3k.

    appliances are 15K for a total of about 73K

    Is there anything big that Im missing

    we are doing all the floors which is running about $10/sq ft fully installed with new 1x6 mdf baseboards

  • millworkman
    5 years ago

    "the 25k is for removing the load bearing wall and refinishing the drywall."


    What are they doing to carry the load this wall currently carries?

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    putting in a beam. We havent had an engineer look at it yet, which is the next step.

  • Buehl
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    25K sounds like a pretty good cost to me...I would have thought it would be higher for all that work. But then, I live in a high cost of living area (HCOLA), so it might cost more where I am.

    I echo MillWorkMan's question, how are they going to handle the load? Posts? Beam/header? Combination?

    [Edited to add: Anthony responded to MillWorkMan's question while I was crafting this post.]

    .

    We really need more information to be able to give you better help. E.g., we need a fully measured layout of the space. In your case, we would need the measurements of all spaces so we know what we have to work with.

    • Widths of each window/wall/door/doorway and the distances b/w each window/wall/door/doorway. For windows, include how high off the floor they are.
    • Where there are walls, include labels for wall thicknesses
    • If windows and/or doors/doorways are staying, include the trim in your windows and doors/doorways measurements. If they're not staying, then how wide is the trim on each side (for planning purposes)?
    • What is your family composition? Children (now or in the future)?
    • How flexible are you with regards to other ideas?
    • What is the minimum size you'll accept for the Office? (The DR Office looks plenty big enough, but you said it was too small.)

    Sample layout:

    .

    Other questions/comments:

    Do you really need 3 seating areas so close to each other? Peninsula, Nook, Dining Room.

    .

    "...Pot filler above stove as my wife isnt supposed to lift anything above 35 pounds..."

    I'm not sure how that helps...first, does any normal pot weigh over 35 pounds when filled? Second, how does she plan to empty the pot? It will weigh just as much, if not more (with food added), when it has to be emptied. Pot fillers don't have drains, so your wife will still have to pick it up and carry it to a sink to empty. If this is really an issue you're trying to address, you might be better off having a sink on the same wall as your rangetop so your wife can slide the pot along the counter to the sink for emptying.

    For reference:

    • 1 quart of water = approx 2 pounds
    • 1 liter of water = approx 2.2 pounds

    [And, keep in mind, since pot fillers do not have drains, drips will have no place to go except the rangetop. I assume you will have easy/quick access to the water shutoff valve just in case...]

    .

    Your island, right now, doesn't really work well for a Prep Zone b/c of its orientation.

    I wonder if you would be better off with a very different setup. I have a couple of ideas, but without actual measurements, I don't know if they will work.

    .

    If you could post a measured layout for us, I think you would get more responses and some other ideas. We also have a Layout Help FAQ that might be useful:

    How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

  • Buehl
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Is your Dining Room table really only 36" wide? That's pretty narrow. That size table is usually used in eat-in Kitchens when trying to save space. From what I've seen, most DR tables are closer to 42" wide.

    .

    Flow...it looks like you will have traffic coming into the Kitchen from the Garage and the stairs (other bedrooms, I assume) right where your (island) Prep Zone is and in the path to the Cooking Zone from the Prep Zone.

    It also looks like the main path to the new Office will also be right through the Kitchen from the rest of the house. With the peninsula, you will be forcing everyone to go through the Prep Zone and Cooking Zone to get to the Office. Note that the Cooking Zone should be the most protected work zone, not least protected.

    This may be an issue for you b/c your Prep Zone appears to be on the island right where everyone will be passing by -- and the aisle doesn't look all that wide.

    [Aisles, btw, are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisles the farthest -- appliance handles, counter edges, etc. They are not measured cabinet-to-cabinet as cabinet depths only include the box, not the doors/drawer fronts or counter overhang (usually around 1.5").]


    .

    "...pulls will be a euro drawer pull in gold (ugh)."

    If you don't like the gold, can't you specify something else? I'm with you, I don't like gold (brass?) either, especially with white! But, as with all "color" choices, it's a personal preference, not functional issue.

    Some other things to think about (I know they're already "there", but think about them anyway -- you might be able to fix them.)

    Laundry Room....right now, your Laundry Room is out in the open for everyone coming in via the garage to see. Personally, I would not want my dirty (or clean) laundry on display -- even for family and close friends (those are who usually use garage entrances). A much better location would be near the Master Bedroom/Closet where most of the laundry comes from/goes back to. This would be especially important to me if I had lifting restrictions, which your wife has.

    Garage....are you putting in a new door to/from the Office & Garage in the 7'x7' storage area?

    What's on the other side of the hall from the Utility Room, another closet?

    Do you have anything under the stairs? It could be used for additional storage. I wonder if that area could be re-configured a bit to be more useful overall. Are you open to that?

  • Buehl
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Anthony -- I hope you're not overwhelmed!

    I took your drawings and came up with these approximate measurements of the space (no cabs, etc., yet). I based them on relative sizes in your original drawings. I'm sure they're not accurate, but are they close?

    Here's the original:

    .

    And the new space:

    (new walls are turquoise)

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Im trying to get the designer to send us a better floor plan. Ill respond once I can get a floorplan uploaded.

    We are a family of 5, kids 9, 4, 2.

    The big le creuset pots weigh about 12 pounds empty so maybe 20 pounds when full. the pot filler is definitely optional. Probably within her carrying limit, but she always asks me to lift them. Maybe just her way of getting me to help cook.

    dining room table is probably 4 feet. Our old dining room was 20 ft by 10 feet and was perfect for the table with both leaves. The new dining room is much smaller and the columns might block us from expanding it out all the way. My preference is to make the family room my office/workshop/workout room. It will house a treadmill, old cabinets from the kitchen, and my desk. I do lots of projects and the space would be great. I would use a large office more often than we will use the formal dining. I would call it a workshop more than an office.

    I really like the suggestion of moving the kitchen to the family room, but I think it would make the project too costly.

    Would moving the island out of the entry way from the utility room help? What about the configuration of the island makes it bad for a prep area?

    I was thinking I would go through the cleanup zone to get to the office. Im the only one that goes in there, I keep it locked because of the hazardous materials. I was considering make the door a secret door that has a front that looks like cabinets.

    I thought the island was the prep zone (facing the refrigerator). The upper sink would be the cleanup zone.

    Garage:

    I would like to open a door to the 7x7 area as that is where my dirty workbench will go. That way I can go between workspaces and just have one set of tools. I do gunsmithing, reloading, bike maintenance, computer programming, woodshop (just basic cutting). All of those areas need separate spaces.

    Stairs:

    There is an HVAC return currently under the stairs on the interior side. The return is located just to the left of the stairs at floor level. In the garage there is space for a refrigerator and some storage under the stairs.

    Laundry: My wife is extremely neat. Laundry doesnt go into the laundry room until it is in the machines. She does laundry every single day.

    I have read the faq and I thought the cooking area is protected (no one goes in my office but me) and there is a triangle from fridge, stove, prep area, sink.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    I have elevations of the cabinets as well. Not sure if those will help or not


  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    bumping for more help

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    bumping as we are getting close to selecting a contractor and locking everything in. I grew up with pantry cabinets, but since then have had a walk in pantry in every house, so I specd a walk in pantry. But it seems small enough that mayble pantry cabinets would be better.

  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    Is resale a concern for you? Turning that family room with such a view into a shop seems like a significant value-killer to me. At minimum, I'd get input from an excellent local realtor before doing this to your home.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    it would actually be an office. We dont plan to sell ever (never say never)


    We got our bids in. Both bids are running about 130K which seems really high. The wall is load bearing.


    We had wanted to spend about 70K.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Just an update, we have started demo. Here are some photos. Of course scope increased so now we are doing

    1) remove all crown molding

    2) replace all baseboards with 1x6

    3) 1000 sq ft of new flooring (master closet, living room, master bedroom)

    4) refinish 2000 sq ft of flooring to a dark color

    5) master bath gut

    6) kitchen

    7) remove columns

    8) square off arch

    9) replace fireplace mantle

    10) stair balusters to steel

    11) removing dining room soffit

    12) new lights in entry, dining, breakfast nook and over peninula

    total cost is roughly 125K

    35K for master bath and 90k for everything else.

    In the 90k

    Cabinets are 23k

    appliances are 15K

    Hole in ceiling is for vent hood exhaust. 48" wolf range will be in the center of this wall. I dont love that it will be visible from the dining room. Im trying to convince my wife to put a barn door in front of the doorway (or at least a swinging door)


    Peninsula is framed too low, will be a bar height table. Door will be changed to 8ft and shaker style. Balusters will be changed to steel with horizonal bars or cables. Existing oak floors are saved and stained dark.


    Columns have been removed and will be squared off. New shaker style cabinet doors. I just want a simple mantle that doesnt go down the sides of the fireplace, but designer and wife want something that goes down each side.



    Wish I could afford to change windows to steel, but that would be another 100K alone. Door will be replaced. Would love to close up existing door and do a wall of doors where the windows are and square off the arches.



  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    here are the current kitchen floor plans and elevations. We ended up leaving all the walls in place. I dont understand how putting up a wall and taking down a wall could be an extra 60K, but it was. Plus my wife liked the existing floorplan with the two downstairs living areas. Giving me a giant office was not a priority for her.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    We took out the arch in the living room. Unfortunately there was wiring. By the time they asked me if they should close it all off or extend the wiring to the top, my wife had already said close it all off. I would have said cut the wiring on both sides. They told her it would put a junction box on either side. She thought a junction box was a huge thing sticking out.

    I dont love it, but I can live with it.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    The cabinets were custom and plywood, very well made. Im putting some in the garage and will put some under the deck to use as chicken coops. the deck is about 15 ft above the ground.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    here is the 3d view


    the bar height counter is all bar height, not a two level counter. There will be a 12 inch overhang all the way around to seat 5 for casual eating.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    My question is, is the layout of the kitchen ok? the island partially blocks the path from the fridge to the sink, but not too badly. I cant move it any further away because it will block the door to the pantry. I know the island is narrow, is that ok? Where should the garbage drawer go? I was thinking to the left of the sink. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

  • KD
    4 years ago

    Are you still doing a pot filler? I know some people here like to frown on them, but I have disabilities and I dearly want one - if you have a reason for it like you do, I’d ignore the naysayers. (Why is the question of the filled pot such a stumbling block? You know what I do with a large pot of hot water like after boiling pasta? I leave it for someone able bodied to empty or wait until it’s cold so I can handle it safely, then I dip out the water with a measuring cup until I’ve emptied it enough I can carry it. I’d do the same if I had a pot filler, just I wouldn’t need help filling the pot in the first place.)

  • KD
    4 years ago

    Also, pretty sure 12” overhang is not enough for comfortable seating position for eating.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    we are not doing a pot filler. My wife had open heart surgery so isnt supposed to lift more than 20 pounds. The le creuset is probably 12 pounds already. We decided it was too expensive for the value. She can use smaller pots to fill the big one.


    Supposedly 12" overhangs are enough on 42" height bars. We would easily be able to support it on one side so might do that. Ill ask our designer

  • laughablemoments
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I’d put the trash so that it pulls out at the end of the island toward the stove so that it could be accessed from all 3 sides of the island, from someone at the fridge, stove or sink.

    Do you want a prep sink?

    We had an angled wall like that in one of our kitchens. We put in wall pantry storage between the studs. It was great for cans and other slim items, nothing got lost and it held a lot!

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    the end of the island towards the stove holds pots for cooking and a drawer for cooking utensils. Im trying to move the garbage slideout to the left of the sink. 99% of the garbage is during prep and cleanup. Cabinets are ordered, but I think the slideout is installed on site.


    The island is tiny, so no prep sink. We will get stuff out of the fridge, take it to the sink, prep to the left or right of sink and then take to the stove.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    probably too late since my cabinets are now ordered, but would still like feedback on the final layout and prices.


    We looked at blanco silgranit sinks, finalized appliances too

    wolf 8 burner (almost have my wife convinced a bluestar would be ok, but the uneven knobs are a killer)

    wolf convection microwave

    bosch 800 panel ready dishwasher

    zephyr tempest II 48" vent with add on 1200 cfm blower

    danby silhouette wine fridge

    We are sticking with our CD fridge for now but have setup the cabinets to easily add a built in.


    My contractor said he has never had to do makeup air. But there is a large "crawl" space (it is 15 ft high) under the stove so it is really easy to add now or later. The only thing I was worried about was pulling air from under the house. The house is on a hill and we have a huge area under the house that is fully enclosed. Any radon or other chemicals seem like they could accumulate there. On the plus side the air temp is pretty constant year round.


  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Here is an update, cabinets are going in today. Some mistakes:

    1) didnt understand cabinet construction. We got upgraded homecrest, but the sides are 1/2 inch instead of 3/4. We got dove tail, 3/4 back, plywood, reversed shaker doors, under drawer glides, but didnt realize that the thickness of the plywood matters too

    2) Made a last minute change to move the garbage to the left of the sink. Turns out that created a dead space in the corner. It originally was open and connected to the cabinet next to it


    3) the island was supposed to have drawers, but we never got the island elevation so it got lost in translation. We may change the island doors out to drawers later.




  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    After cabinets are in we measure for counters and stain floors. Appliances, fixtures, sink are in. So within 2 weeks I think the kitchen will be done except for punch list items.

  • Anthony C
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    some cabinets didnt get delivered so we are delayed. They are rough measuring the countertops to start planning. Based on the plan above, we only need a single seam along the long edge with the sink. we are planning to put the seam at the sink.

    Is that a good idea?


    Also my GC said the company he uses has a machine that will squeeze the pieces together so there is virtually no seam. Does that work? necessary? common? rare?


    We were originally going to do a 12 inch overhang off the island, but I recently learned that unsupported 15" is ok with quartz. Is it just barely ok or really ok?

    Finally an eased edge would be ideal, but I read the thread about chipping and am now worried about the eased edge. The 1/4 style isnt too bad. We are going for a transitional look, but leaning towards modern over traditional.



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