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Converting dining room to walk-in pantry & butler's pantry

Jennifer
6 years ago

I am considering eliminating my dining room so I can use the space as a walk-in pantry with spare fridge/freezer, a butler's pantry and an additional storage closet.

I've posted a couple of times here for help with the layout of my kitchen remodel. and have a solid layout for the kitchen area now. I've been doing a lot of thinking about our priorities and there are a few points that layout just doesn't have space to fix. Originally I didn't want to give up the formal dining room area, but we really need more food storage/pantry space, more fridge/freezer space and more storage in general on the main floor. So I came up with this idea to subdivide the current dining room space.


The dining room is 156" wide by 132" long. Is there a better way to divide up this space that would allow room for

1. pantry for food storage including bulk Costco-purchase items

2. an extra full depth 36" fridge/freezer

3. cabinetry for storing fine china & crystal, platters, etc.

4. landing area for purse/mail/etc

5. additional closet space (right now the only closet on the main floor is the tiny triangle in the foyer.

I would love to hear any suggestions to make this room more functional for us.

For reference here is our whole floor plan with the layout of the existing kitchen:


Comments (50)

  • rantontoo
    6 years ago

    How far above the floor are the windows in the walkway to dining/art room?

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    It is 23" from the floor. So too low for base cabinets and a countertop. I should have mentioned above that I am trying to avoid making any exterior changes and avoid removing the load bearing wall between the current kitchen and dining room.
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  • rantontoo
    6 years ago

    You could add 12" shallow reach-in panties or shelving on either side of the B wall windows. The fridge will generate heat; but with an open doorway, there is some air circulation. What do you plan to store in the space with the extra fridge...the heat is something to consider when choosing food items to store there.

  • rantontoo
    6 years ago

    It might be helpful to provide your link to your previous post. Giving up the dining room was not an easy devision for you; it might help others to read how and why you got to this "solution."

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Good idea! I will try to dig up the link tomorrow when I get on the computer. I don't seem to be able to copy the link from my phone.
  • Buehl
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I am concerned that you are giving up a decent place for a table. That table appears to be crammed into a corner there with not enough room for someone to actually sit there, especially the seat on the right.

    I'd rather see you put in a reach-in pantry and the second refrigerator where you currently have the table space.

    I don't know your family composition, but if you have children, do you have enough seating for both now and in the future? I know my children outgrew our Kitchen table when they hit their pre-teens. We moved into the Dining Room for all meals and it was so much more pleasant! (When we remodeled, we got rid of the Kitchen table and put in more cabinets/storage, something we really needed!)

  • sheloveslayouts
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I don't think it's a good idea to eliminated a decent dining room. My house is small--1200 sf-- and I made my dining area minimal: 9x12'. There's no way I'd go smaller than that; room for a 3x6' table with a 3' edge-past space around it. Especially in a larger home.

    I think this was my most recent contribution. Front room separated from kitchen in the dining room, dining across the back where the present kitchen and nook are.

  • sheloveslayouts
    6 years ago

    Have you thought about moving the washer and dryer upstairs so you can use the laundry space as storage?

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    rantontoo - Pantries on either side of the window could be a good idea for storing the items that shouldn't be near heat. Spices and such. The walk-in pantry would be our main food storage area so all types of food and paper products would be in there with the fridge.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    enjesbride - thanks for linking my old threads!



    freeoscar, benjesbride, and buehl - I hear you about eliminating a good space for a dining table. The first image of the eating area off the kitchen is a little misleading. I am using the IKEA planner to make the layout but it doesn't allow me to show the bay window that is in that area. And the light blue wall on the right doesn't exist. It is completely open to the family room on that side. Here is a photo of the real life space with our oval table. It has plenty of space to seat the 4 people in our family, even as our girls grow older. That is where we currently eat all of our meals.

    Here are my thoughts on our formal dining situation. We only use that room for dining 2 or 3 times a year. We are a very artistic family so the dining table is mainly used for my projects. And as a landing area for mail, packages, etc.

    The room at the front of the house is supposed to be a formal living room, but we use it as an art room. Large table in the middle that seats at least 8 with a couple of storage pieces on the walls. This room is the same width as the current dining room and almost 2 feet longer. My plan is to put our current dining table in this room. For the 2-3 times a year that we need a formal dining room we can clean up our projects and use this as our dining room.

    My concern with eliminating the dining room in my previous thread was that I didn't think I could share the art room space with my kids. I needed my own space. The 3 of us have been home all summer and I made an effort to just share the art room space with them. It actually worked out fine. Here is a photo where I am standing in the corner of the dining room by the door to the kitchen.


    freeoscar - We don't use our china and crystal often but it is heirloom sets handed down to us from family. Right now it is stored in boxes in the basement and we never take it out to use it. Actually we have a lot of kitchen items stored down in the basement that we never use because I am too lazy to go down to get them. I would like to create the storage space on the main floor for these items so we can use them more often. We do have some of our china on the main floor and we use that for special occasion dinners even when it is just the 4 of us (birthdays, etc). I would like to have the space for all of it on the main floor so we can use it more often, even if we are just sitting at our kitchen table.

    benjesbride reposted her layout idea from a previous post above. My husband and I spent some time this summer thinking about our priorities not only for this remodel but also other areas of our lives. We decided we really don't want to spend the money to remove or move the load bearing wall between the diniing room and kitchen. And we don't want to change any windows that would cause exterior work to be done (raising or lowering them). We also did a lot of cleaning out clutter to see what things we really need to store closets and cabinets. An additional closet became a much higher priority as well as more pantry space especially for Costco trips. So that is why we came up with the first layout I posted above. It keeps the same kitchen footprint, just moving the sink and dishwasher. And coverts the dining room into more storage spaces while still leaving us a large table area in the art room.

    benjesbride - there isnt' any space upstairs for the laundry. We have a 2 story family room & foyer so the square footage upstairs is much smaller than the main floor. We did consider putting it downstairs in the basement so we could put the extra fridge in the current laundry room. But I have a bad back and the way the basement is laid out (it is already finished) it is a very long walk all the way through the basement to the space where we could put the laundry. Not to mention the 2 flights of stairs. So we nixed that idea.

  • freeoscar
    6 years ago

    Makes a lot of sense. Having the butler's pantry would be nice then for those times when you do convert the art room to a formal dining. I'm with you on the china and silver - we have beautiful handpainted china and gorgeous silver and actually formally entertain frequently, but we don't use the china or silver for it as often as we should (our 'regular' plates are china as well, but are dishwasher safe). It's a mission of ours to use it more often - maybe now that the kids are older and we have 2 sinks cleanup wouldn't be so bad.

  • Buehl
    6 years ago

    The clarification helps -- you have much more room than your original layout shows. It makes more sense now! If you need a larger table, you will be able to extend it into the Family Room since it is open to the FR with no floor level change.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I'm glad the clarification helped. I played around with Room Sketcher this morning to make a diagram that is more accurate than what IKEA is allowing me to do. I put our furniture in the rooms so you can see the flow through the main floor as well.

    I would love to hear if anyone has any suggestions on how to layout the storage areas in the current dining room. Right now it is just an open room so we can put the walls up anywhere except that exterior wall with the window.

    In the art room we should be able to seat 10 people with the table fully extended which is enough for our family. If we need more space we can always move the big table to the family room area or use the kitchen table as a kids table to free up some space at the main table.

  • rantontoo
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I hope someone takes a shot at reworking your storage/pantry area...I do not think you are maximizing the pantry storage space to its maximum with the fridge in the pantry.

    Have you considered recessing the fridge so it opens into the walkway? If you put shelving on both sides in a long narrower pantry, I think you would gain more storage space even if the recessed fridge would take away some of the butler pantry area. The pantry would be a U-shape which would maximize the storage space. The opening would not need to be 36 inches wide so you would gain some wall inches in the butler pantry area. The other closet could also be made deeper but I am not sure if that is helpful.

    I assume you want the pantry entrances to line up in a straight shot...would it be awful if they didn't?

  • sena01
    6 years ago

    Maybe you can have curio cabs or tall cabs with partly glass doors partly drawers on each side of the window for china and move the fridge outside the pantry.

  • lazy_gardens
    6 years ago

    I like Sena's idea ^^^ above BUT I would put the refrigerator as close to the kitchen as possible. Having it outside the pantry eliminates the heat build-up issue.

    Instead of curio cabinets, I would go for a full wall of shelves and solid/glass front cabinets to display the heirloom fancy stuff and store the less-used things. And a windowseat under the window so people can read or do needlework.


    Like this, but not as dark?

    New Orleans Inspired on Yarrow Point · More Info


  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    @rantontoo & @sena01 - I took a shot at redesigning the room like rantontoo described with the fridge opening into the hallway, a U-shaped pantry and a larger storage closet opening into the art room. I also put the cabinets on either side of the window like sena01 suggested.

    I like this layout. I think there will be plenty of storage for china, crystal & serving pieces with the cabinet next to the fridge and on both sides of the window.

    I am not sure if the pantry is wide enough though. The doorway would be 24" wide with 9" shelves all around. So the path in the center is less than 36". Is that too tight? I've never had the luxury of a walk in pantry so I have no idea.

    I was planning to use the countertop in the butler's pantry area as the landing place for my purse, mail, to do items, etc. The 36" counter in this layout seems like it might be a bit tight for that, but I guess I could make it work. Right now I use a desk area next to the fridge in our kitchen but we are eliminating that in favor of the counterspace for a microwave & coffee. Plus it always looks messy so I really want the landing space more out of sight in the hallway area rather than in the kitchen.

    The storage closet off of the art room is also much larger in this layout. That could be a bad thing. If I have the space to store lots of craft stuff I will fill it up. Lol. I need a little more craft storage space but a huge walk in closet isn't necessary.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    @lazy_gardens - do you think the fridge in the layout I just posted is close enough to the kitchen? Right now I have to walk all the way to the basement to get to the spare fridge so having it anywhere in that hallway seems so much better to me.

    I also thought about the window seat but I think it needs to be pretty deep in order for it to be comfortable for sitting. If I put normal 24" deep cabinets on the window side I think the hallway would feel too narrow. In the layout above I tried 15" deep 90" tall cabinets with glass doors on top and closed storage on the bottom.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    @rantontoo Oops I forgot to answer your question about the hallway openings lining up. I guess they don't have to line up perfectly. Did you have an idea for a layout where they don't line up?

  • Kate
    6 years ago

    I would think 36" should be enough for a drop zone. The bigger you make it, the more stuff that ends up there.

    On window seats, a quick look showed one site that recommends a depth of 17-22 inches. I think you can do 15" cabs and have the seat a little deeper. I'm planning on putting a window seat between 12" bookcases in our reno.

    I don't know if the pantry is wide enough, but the new layout seems to be a more efficient use of the space.

  • rantontoo
    6 years ago

    Jennifer: I like what you did with the walk-in closet...you will love it! The shelves on the back wall of the U can be deeper, as deep as you need them for the storage of larger items.

  • rantontoo
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    If you feel that you need more than 36 inches for the butler pantry counter area more than the shelving wall space in the pantry, you could slide the fridge toward the kitchen which would eliminate room for the 9 inch pantry shelves along the wall for a span of 36" plus the wall depth...close to 41 inches. If I am reading your plan correctly that would leave approximately 36" of wall space for shelving on that pantry wall.

    It is a trade-off I think I would make, not just for a larger landing zone but to add the inches for a serving or beverage station when entertaining. You should be able to expand the counter area by 8-9 inches which gives a 44-45 inch counter and cabs.

    The 41 inches of wall space from moving the fridge toward the kitchen could be useful for hanging storage. It amazes be how much can be stored by hanging besides things like brooms and mops.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    @Kate - good point about a larger space just filling up with more stuff. I have the same concern about making the closet in the craft room larger.

    I think I will tape off floor around the window in that room with the cabinets and window seat idea just to see if it feels too narrow. I also worry that the window seat will become a dumping ground for stuff. I need to think about that more and how it would work for us.

    @rantontoo - I redid the layout with your suggestion of bumping the fridge into the pantry cabinet a little bit. I like it! It gives me a slightly larger countertop for a landing space. I also made the back shelves wider for storing appliances like you suggested.

    I am still concerned that the pantry aisle isn't wide enough. I need to research the proper dimensions, I guess.

  • lazy_gardens
    6 years ago

    I think your walk in pantry is too skinny. Make a mockup of it, by putting a bookcase next to a wall, as far away from the wall as your aisle is wide. Then put something on the bottom shelf of the bookcase. Can you do it?


  • rantontoo
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I think your walk-in pantry aisles will be fine...looks like 30 inches. I have a short 30 inch area enclosed between two walls, and I do not feel like I have to turn sideways to get through. It is storage...you are not cooking in there. But lazy gardens gave good advice; the bottom shelf will be the true test. Before you commit...mock up a 30 inch walking aisle; just taping on the floor will not give you a true sense of that 30 inch aisle.

  • rockybird
    6 years ago

    How low does the window go against the wall in the "hallway" with the curio cabinets? Can you put a long counter along that wall with cabinets above and below along that long wall? It would also give a good place to store art supplies.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I adjusted things a bit to give a 42" walkway in the pantry. I think that will be much better. It means the countertop in the bultler pantry is about 40".

    @rockybird The window in the hallway area is low - 23" from the floor. I would love to raise it so we could put a countertop under it, but we are trying to avoid the costs of doing the exterior work if we changed that window.

    I am really happy with this layout in both the kitchen and the butler's pantry/storage areas. think I am ready to take the next step and start getting some quotes now!

  • rantontoo
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Forty-two inches seems like a lot for a pantry walkway...did you mock up various walkway widths? If you didn't, maybe start another post asking about the walking space others have in their walk-in pantries.

    I think your layout is a good use of your space...but I would rather have shelf storage in that pantry than an over generous walkway...that's why I suggested asking others what they have especially if you did not mock the spacing.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Good idea to start a posting asking about the walkway widths I'll do that.

    Here is how I got to the 42":

    I found this info online about various clearances for pantries.

    http://www.dream-kitchen-pantry.com/kitchen_pantry_DESIGN/kitchen_pantry_plan_clearance.shtml

    My plan was to put 9" shelving along both long sides of the pantry. The space to the right of the door that doesn't have shelving could be used for a shallow spice rack area or to hang broom/mop etc.

    The short wall opposite the door would have deeper shelving for my appliances (bread maker, kitchen aid mixer). The minimum recommended "circulation zone" is 40-44". So that is where I got the 42". I will need to go into the pantry, pick up the bread maker, completely turn around and walk out. My coordination isn't good enough to back all the way out holding the bread maker without knocking things off of the 9" shelves.

    I also envision having multiple kids in the pantry at one time picking out snacks. So I don't want to be too cramped with the walkway.

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I have been collecting estimates from contractors and received an interesting floor plan from one of them. I wanted to share it here to get your opinions. When I met with each contractor I showed them this layout:

    All but one contractor just gave me an estimate for doing exactly what I asked for above. One company came back to me with this design, just to see what I thought:

    They put the 2 fridges next to each other in the kitchen but recessed into the old dining room. They also swapped the location of the sink & range to get more upper cabinets.

    My initial impressions are that the peninsula is too close to the eating area table space in the top right corner. Plus the peninsula wouldn't be functional for eating (no space for an overhang). It give me 2 corner lazy susans which I am not crazy about. I have one right now in my current kitchen and I don't love it. The pantry is too wide, but that is easily fixable. It can be made narrower and the closet at the bottom off the art room would be larger. She also suggested that we could put a cabinet in the hallway by using some of the art room closet space (similar to my original layout).

    My issue now is I need to decide if I want them to go forward with giving me an estimate for the layout they suggested (with some tweaks) or for the original layout I gave them. What do you think about the function of the new layout from the company? Is it worth pursuing or should I stick with what I came up with?

  • Sam Havel
    6 years ago

    I've enjoyed reading this thread and all the thought and help that's been put into it. I have to say though the contractor's plan is awesome. The kitchen seems so spacious and the butler's pantry has a neat, clean, attractive look to it. Good luck with your remodel!

  • _sophiewheeler
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    You’re ruining your home’s layout for anyone else ever. It’s a wacky waste of money plus it lowers the value of the home. You’d be better off putting that 100K into a different house. Move up to something with more storage if you want more storage. Don’t remove a room that most buyers want.

  • rantontoo
    6 years ago

    I think you have to decide if the counter space in the butler’s pantry is more important than the larger walking space in the kitchen that recessing the fridge gains you. I do not see the peninsula as a plus.

  • cheri127
    6 years ago

    You might actually get the same amount of storage space or more if you kept the integrity of the rooms but filled the walls with custom built-ins? Keep the china storage around the window as planned and on the other two walls, do floor to ceiling cabinets (think Ikea PAX) fitted with drawers or roll outs or both and including an integrated refrigerator. You could probably still fit a small table in the middle for art projects.

    Working with the existing foot print and adding custom storage gives you more flexibility should needs change in the future.

  • caligirl5
    6 years ago

    I kind of like the contractor's plan minus the peninsula.

    I think your plan is more like converting the formal living room to a dining room, then expanding kitchen into the old dining room. I'd think many people would take large kitchen and storage over a formal living room.

  • Nic
    6 years ago

    I agree with caligirl5 - it seems you have/are converting the formal to a dining room, creating great storage that functions for your family and is flexible enough should you choose to sell at some point. Our architect suggested we use our formal living room as a dining room...and we opted to keep it as a formal living room, but might change it up as our family gets bigger. My point is, your ‘future buyer’ can choose how they want to use that space.

    I do think the peninsula design (even if you don’t do the peninsula) is interesting as it cleans up the usable storage space and makes the walkway from kitchen to ‘art room’ nicer.

  • junco East Georgia zone 8a
    6 years ago

    Where would your drop zone be in the new plan?

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Happy Thanksgiving! Thanks for the input everyone. I have been getting estimates from a lot of contractors and I have selected the one I want to use. I am meeting with them again on Monday.

    I decided to go with my original plan of one fridge in the kitchen and one in the butler's pantry rather than the contractor's suggestion of having them both in the kitchen and recessing them into the wall. I didn't like the peninsula and having the wider kitchen just meant I would have to take more steps while cooking. I would rather have that extra space be countertop in the butler's pantry like rantontoo and junco pointed out. I need that countertop as my drop zone.

    So now my current dilemma is what to do for the corner cabinet the the kitchen under the two windows. I have been researching the pros and cons of the various blind corners, lazy susans and the after market shelving options to put in them. Here is a rough design what I am thinking is the current best layout:


    I ended up switching the range and sink because I think it allows for larger drawer bases and more upper cabinets. This way the open dishwasher won't be in the walking path from the hallway/butler's pantry. I also kept thinking that the sink right next to the window was going to look awkward.

    On Monday with the designer I need to go over the exact widths of cabinets available in the cabinet line (Homecrest is what they have recommended), especially the options for the corners.

  • _sophiewheeler
    6 years ago

    Homecrest is builder grade. I wouldn’t use them.

  • Apolonia3
    6 years ago

    Our Homecrest cabinets are over 8 years old and in perfect condition. We found them to be a lot sturdier than some of the other builder grade cabinets.

  • K
    3 years ago

    Hi there, I’m curious if you ever proceeded with your plan of converting your dining room into a pantry. We are considering doing the same and I’d love to know if you have any tips or suggestions! Thank you!

  • Jennifer
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Hi K, yes we did do the remodel just as laid out in my most recent post above. I have no regrets. The huge walk in pantry has been amazing, especially with everyone home all the time and eating 3 meals a day for the past year. If you have any specific questions please let me know. The help and advice I received here was invaluable!









  • K
    3 years ago

    Thanks so much for the insight! It's beautiful and I'm glad you are enjoying it.

  • lucieck
    2 years ago

    Wow this looks beautiful :)
    Kitchen looks great and I love those tall cabinets that you went with on each side of the window in the “hallway”.

    Do you have pics of the pantry that you’d like to share?

  • Lisa Price
    last year

    I am just now reading all these amazing comments. We were going to sell our 5 bedroom house and build a “smaller” 2B2B barndominium, but plans changed due to my dad getting sick and not wanting us to move away from me. So we have decided to renovate what we have and incorporate the things I wanted into this house but I have no clue where to start. This house had NO storage. We have extra rooms I want to make one a butlers pantry that connects to my kitchen and the other I want to make a master closet. Any ideas would be appreciated

  • sheloveslayouts
    last year

    @Lisa PriceCreate a new post and include an image of your home's floorplan.

  • Lisa Price
    last year

    The issue is I don’t have a floor plan of my existing house. It’s 40 years old. We have remodeled a lot in the last 6 months because we had planned on selling them my dad got really sick and he didn’t want me to move away from him. I can upload pics of the rooms is that helps

  • sheloveslayouts
    last year

    It takes some work, but if you really want help... grab a tape measure, some graph paper, and a pencil and sketch it out. Your first post doesn't need to be architect-grade. Just enough to communicate what your house is like right now.