There are two types of scene control keypads - one which controls a load (called the hybrid keypad), and the regular one which does not control a load. So in this hypothetical, assuming you want the keypad near the other dimmers, you can either a) put in a 4th junction box for the non-hybrid keypad or b) leave the 3 boxes and use a hybrid keypad for that third load.

Thanks, freeoscar. The hybrid keypad seems like the best options as we have enough switch clutter as it is. So, if I understand you correctly, the hybrid one gang switch would turn on one circuit (so could replace one circuit switch) as well as offer the scene buttons for all the loads on that gang?

Carol

Yes, but the scenes are not limited to loads from that particular gang. Any load in your house which is attached to a RadioRa2 switch/dimmer can be part of any scene on any keypad, no matter where that keypad is located.

Thanks. Sounds good. So for every load that I want to control with the scene I need either a Lutron dimmer, switch, or keypad to have it part of the scene control. I also believe I need some repeaters. When do you need to add a Graffic eye main control?

Carol

That is correct. Grafik Eye's aren't typically part of a Radio Ra2 setup. They can be incorporated into one, but generally they are used as an independent setup for a room or series of rooms in either a commercial setting (think conference rooms) or residential for a complicated home theatre setup that has a dozen circuits. But it's always much more cost effective and simpler to just use the normal keypads, switches and dimmers in a residential setting.

You always need 1 main repeater - depending on the size and layout of the house you might need an auxillary repeater as well. Have you planned out where you will want your main repeater yet? Wherever it is, it is best to have an ethernet connection to your network there as sometimes wireless can be wonky, and you don't want your light control to be wonky! And of course there needs to be a power outlet there as well.

Thank you freeoscar. No we have not planned where our main repeater would go. We will have a structural wiring closet with a plug (all all the homerun lines for data, telephone, cable, etc). Could the repeater go there? If I upload a plan of our house, would you be able to advise where to put it? We are currently running both low voltage and line voltage wires, so the sooner we know the better to ensure we have what we need for when the time comes to add the RadioRa2 setup.

Carol

Thought I would load a plan anyway, in hopes that you can advise on the location of the main repeater? The home, not including the basement, is 3000 sq. ft. First photo is the main floor. There is a closet in the corner near to the dining room table that has plugs in it? Maybe that could work for the main repeater. We could add a cat 6 line to that location. The laundryroom/study (only labelled as laundry) is another option as there will be a cat 6 drop there and plugs.

The below photo shows the basement. The structural wiring closet is a large closet beside the basement bathroom (labelled storage). There will be no shortage of cat 6 lines available there, plus a plug. Unfortunately, the orientation of the rooms does not line up with the main level (should be flipped 180 degrees to line them up). The ping pong table is south (back of house) as is the diningroom and great room. The structural closet is near the wall behind the seating of the kitchen island.

This is the upper level (we have changed the furniture arrangement).

The main repeater reaches to 30ft (maybe a little more depending on the house construction. So think of it as a sphere with the repeater at the center and a 30ft radius. I'm thinking the existing wiring closet may be out of reach of the furthest places on the 2nd floor, but you could always a) try putting it in the laundry or b) putting in an auxillary repeater somewhere to get the better coverage. You'd also need power for the aux repeater as well as a serial cable (or more likely you'd run an ethernet -> serial adapter. It's always easiest (and cheapest) to just have the main repeater, so maybe mounted up and out of the way in the Laundry is your best bet. We happen to have that arrangement as well.

I really appreciate your help. I think we can put it in the kitchen pantry run. That is very centre in our house. We will put a Cat 6 drop there and a phone line, plus the plug. Or can I get away with having just one Cat 6 for either the landline phone and the ethernet for this main repeater. Also, if we are no more than 30 feet from this main repeater for any room in the house, are we good to go with only one repeater?

Yes, if you are w/in 30ft (and those are Lutron's conservative #s - you probably have some leeway) you should only need the main repeater. That would be normal for a house your size (our is also approx 3000sqft but a little less spread out).

I'm not fulling understanding the other question. For Lutron you don't need a landline - just a Cat 5/6. You might actually want 2 in case you want to integrate it with an alarm system or some other home automation system at some point. But if you want a landline there for a phone, you need a separate cable for that - the Cat 5/6 can only carry one signal - it can't be split into phone and internet.

Yes, we did want a wall landline there. So we will put 2 or 3 Cat 5/6s there in case we want to integrate it with an alarm system or other home automation system. Thanks for all your advice, freeoscar. It was very helpful.

Carol

Glad I could help. I'm PM-able so if you have any other questions feel free to reach out. I'm not a pro installer - just a homeowner who finished up my Radio Ra2 install about this time last year.

Did you do a DIY alarm system as well? We were planning to prewire for motion and glass breakage. Not sure if we will do more than just keep our options open by placing the wires.

Carol

Yes - I did a DIY alarm system (and cameras) as well. I pre-wired for motion detectors, siren, keypad locations and cameras. If memory serves it was 16/4 + Cat 5a for the keypads, Cat 5a for the cameras, and 16/4 for the detectors and siren. I know everyone says 'future proof' with Cat 6, but it's really overkill for a lot of things. And the benefit of Cat 5a vs. 6 is that is more flexible and therefore easier to both pull and terminate. I did, however use Cat 6 for internet and to TV locations (in addition to the RG6 for cable).

I went with a Honeywell Vista 20p. It's very mainstream, so if I need to most every pro is familiar with the system. And it has a very robust series of wireless accessories, and a very good (they call it 5800) wireless protocol. I have some wireless window and door contacts which are easy to program. I didn't want to mess with wired contacts for the windows which theoretically void your window warranty. Plus it just seemed very time consuming to me to pull those wires and make sure it looks good at the window, so I sacrificed some aesthetics and perhaps reliability for ease of use.

I also pulled wires in a few rooms for whole home audio and surround, though I haven't gotten to that yet. I'll use Sonos b/c it's easy to use, very expandable, and ties in w/the Radio Ra2 (and hopefully soon Alexa)

Again, this is very helpful. If it is okay with you, I am going to start a new thread on the topic of DIY alarm systems, cameras, audio. When, I do I hope you will repost the detailed answer above to help others on this quest to do their own pre-wiring. Given you said you had a Honeywell Vista 20p, I assume that means you have a monthly contract with Honeywell. Is this correct?

Carol

Not with Honeywell directly, no. There are several well-regarded (and of course UL and Honeywell certified) monitoring companies that will work with you to monitor the Honeywell equipment. Depending on what setup you have and the degree of monitoring and other services desired it's like $20-50/month.

Good to know about the window warranty with wired sensors. So you just tacked on one of those wireless sensors after drywall over some windows and doors?

Carol

We are trying to work out our switch locations for our kitchen. There are very few walls available and it is a very large space with 4 main circuits. We will have one four gang switch on one entry to the kitchen from the DR/great room to control all 4 main circuits. On the opposite side of the kitchen (around 18 feet away from the first 4 gang switch) we would like another 4 gang to control the same circuits, but we really don't have a great spot for another 4 gang on this side. We would love to use a scene control here instead as we can accommodate a single gang.

So, if the first 4 gang has the same four circuits as the ones we want to control with the scene control, and all switches in the first four gang are Lutron ones, and we have a main repeater (with plug and Cat 5/6) are we good to use a scene control on this end of the kitchen? Also, do we just put an empty plastic one gang inside the framed walls (rough in electrical stage) and tell the electricians to leave it alone? Or I guess we could have a hybrid switch that turns on the island light cicuit and and also has scenes to control the rest of the kitchen circuits.

Carol

For that 2nd location all you would need is one gang for a non-hybrid keypad. It needs to be on some type of 120v circuit for power, but it won't be attached to a load. If there is confusion, you could print this out - it shows the install for a non-load bearing keypad so the electrician knows what needs to be in that box.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/044-158b.pdf

As to your previous question, the wireless window contacts have one piece attached to the window frame, and then the second is either on a different frame of the same window (for a double hung), or on the window casing (casement). Generally speaking.

Thank you again. If we go with the hybrid keypad to control the island lights and the other scences do we just have the electrician wire for that one load and add the keypad latter at finish electrical. Or is there more that the electrician needs to do for this option at the rough-in stage?

Carol

That should be all he needs to do. If you don't have a keypad handy, I would print out the installation guides from the Lutron website and give them to your electrician to review. That's what I did so he would understand what it was we were doing as he was unfamiliar with the system and it was a little confusing to him.

For the hybrid keypad wiring, see page 5 below:

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-228a_Hybrid%20Keypad%20Spec.pdf

Will do. Do you know what the downsides are with the hybrid versus the regular scene control that does not control one load? For retrofit, the hybrid is the way to go, but what about new construction? I read on an older Lutron forum that the hybrid keypad does not work well with LED lights and is less successful dimming than the other scene control. However, that thread was from four years ago and the speculation was that Lutron was revising the hybrid to work better with dimming and LEDs.

Wow! @freeoscar
We are thinking about doing RadioRA but the AV companies are trying to sell us on QS. We do have 165 switches) if we did everything and I want to add on shades. What are your thoughts?