> unless you are refilling the water level daily - does it matter to the plants how fast the excess water evaporates? Fast over one day, or Slow over several days, but the same amount of moisture either way. You assume with hydroton at the bottom the water will evaporate over, say, a day, then the hydroton will be dry till the next watering. That does not need to happen. You can have enough water underneath (and enough hydroton to raise the pots so they are not in a puddle), so that the stronger evaporation still last for the whole time between waterings. Then humidity will be both higher and long lasting. > I guess the downside is that [hydroton is] much more expensive In my case, I bought a big bag a growstones without having a clear plan for them other than a little experiment here and there - so whenever I say hydroton, I actually mean growstones in my case, and I already have a bag. But you are right, of course. Re comparing Chula's smallest pots. I exchanged emails with Harry, and here is the summary of all the differences: 2.25 NCUV: uneven bottom (I put insect screen on the bottom of my pots, and looks like this may be a [small] issue); annoying top ridge; no legs/risers; lighter weight; more see-through. 2.25 SLOTS: more level bottom; smooth top /no ridge; little leg risers; heavier; more opaque. Both have some good advantages - I might just get half of each. > There seem to be two main overlaps with Hoya people. Orchids and Succulents. Good observation. And people who like hoyas with succulent leaves also tend to (surprise!) like succulents. I am not among them, by the way. Hoya kerrii or obovata do very little for me. I mean I'd grow them, but they wouldn't raise my pulse like many others do. Which probably explains why my succulents and cacti combined pots could look better than they do, AND I have little desire to do anything about it. Anyway, that's a tangent. Doug, thanks for chiming in - I thought GG and I lost others a long time ago here. :-) > There is a certain type of personality, that dips their toe in and is quickly up to their neck. The byline of my plants photo album on facebook says very tongue-in-cheek "I can quit any time, OK?" :-) I definitely feel the orchid attraction. What's pulling me back a bit is how ugly most of them look out of bloom (unlike many hoyas!) The leaves are nothing to write home about. When I mentioned this at an Orchid Society meeting, one woman replied, "Eugene, you just need A LOT of orchids, and then something will always be in bloom to distract you from the ugly foliage". HAHAHA, looks like they heard it all before and are well prepared with a perfectly logical "let's submerge to the neck" kind of answer. I have 9 orchids, but there's space on the stand which I bet will not remain empty forever. Back to hoyas... > I have to vote against the hydroton as a replacement for egg crate as I have been there and done that. The biggest problem was having the roots grow through the pots and attach themselves to the hydroton. Well, as you said, the stability insert helps with this. Those roots will have to grow through the insect netting (I'll probably have that depending on the size of the drain holes), out the pot, then around the stability insert pocket, find those holes (they are small and few from the looks of it), and into the hydroton last. They wouldn't attach too firmly, I guess, because I'd be taking the insert out of the tray once a month or so for their showers, and maybe more often for other reasons like watering or draining. > the roots grow through the pots and attach themselves to the hydroton, which makes them very hard to re-pot when the need arises. I imagine you try to dislodge the clinging hydroton or if that does not work, cut the roots just above the highest hydroton ball under the pot. This looks to be minimal root pruning to me - but I appreciate practical experiences, of course, 'cause I am all about theory here. :-) This is a good problem to have, anyway, as the plant is growing vigorously. > The constant evaporation causes strong salt build up on the leca decreasing their effectiveness over time. True, but it will never be as bad as plastic crate's wicking/evaporative abilities, right? :-) By the way, I am sure you get this, Doug, but making sure everybody else reading understands - salt build-up is very bad in media because of fertilizer burn, but here we are talking about something happening outside the pot, so none of that applies (apart from the reduced wicking capacity Doug mentioned).

No. I have been sooooo busy the past few weeks, barely have time for anything. But I really need to go, as I have a linearis growing like mad in a glass ice cream sundae dish filled with clay aggregate! I need a pot for it, you would not believe the roots and growth I have gotten in such a short time. A few days ago I recieved as a surprise with some hoya cutting trades the cutest little hydro heart shaped pot! The woman who sent it owns the company in Canada. But I need something bigger for the linearis, I have some ariadna cuttings rooting for the heart pot. As for lights, I had to go out and buy a new "cool" bulb and, being pressed for time, just stopped at the local Lowes, something I have been putting off for weeks, felt so good that I finally got the bulb, then came home and dropped it on my kitchen floor!!! Grrrr.... Anyway, I do plan on heading to the hydro store, I talked to them on the phone and they have everything I could be looking for as far as lights/hydro supplies go. I had wanted to go this week, but..if not, next weekend for sure....IF I don't go camping....sigh... Then of course there is the question of money...and I know nobody wants to hear this but I need to vent!! Yesterday my parrot bit my 5 year old niece. Now I don't know if any of you have ever been bit by a parrot, but it hurts, and she IS only 5 so there was much hysterical crying and screaming. The only way I could get her to stop was by making much fuss over the new fairy statue my mom had just gotten her at a local gift shop. So, while I was bandaging her hand and marvelling over the $42 statue - I knocked the statue off the table and onto the floor - crash! Both wings snapped off. Fresh screaming and hysterics. The ONLY way to console her was to bundle her into the car and drive to the store where Aunt Jennifer will buy her another fairy statue....well, guess what....the one I broke was the only one of that kind that they had. Another bout of hysterics, this time in public...but hey look, they have this OTHER beautiful fairy statue that is ONLY $20 more!! So, Aunt Jennifer gets to fork out $65 for a fairy statue. And, mind you, Aunt Jennifer is on a very tight budget, there is barely money left over for neceessities like food and toilet paper and hoyas, let alone $65 fairy statues. Sooo....the hydro store may have to wait a few weeks. Thanks for listening.

I use a 5 tier shelf system from Lowes with 2 4' shop lights on each level. I tend to use the top for storage. I believe the shelves in the link are +/- the same ones I use. I put them together with seedling sizes in mind rather than all the shelves being a uniform distance from one another. As the seedlings grow I use a combination of upside down trays to raise the seedlings along with raising and lowering the lights which are suspended by chains on each level. While I would love to raise and lower the lights via a window-blinds-like pulley system I haven't figured out where to get such a contraption (let me know if you have this one figured out). I have the lumber guys cut a sheet of plywood to form a solid shelf at each level - this also helps to keep spills from dripping directly onto the lights on the level below. Make sure to tell the guy cuting the plywood that he doesn't have to cross cut - this way one sheet will work for the entire unit - otherwise they cross cut for strength and you end up needing an extra piece. I cover the sides of the units with mylar runners blankets purchased at Walmart for next to nothing - they last forever or until I eventually step on and pull at the same time resulting in a big tear. When I start getting stacked up with seedlings I turn the trays perpendicular to the shelf unit - I have the short end of the seedling tray facing me. The ends tend to stick out a little over the edge of the shelf but a lot more will fit on each level. I rotate the plants once in a while since the outside plants will get less light. Your temps, especially with heating mats for germination, should be fine. Perhaps you can reverse day/night and use the lights at night and go 'dark' during the day. The lights, with the mylar blocking will raise the temps for the seedlings above the normal night temp and the day temps will, effectively, be the night for the plants. Good luck. Andrew Here is a link that might be useful: 5 Tier Shelves

JW, "...my serrano is showing some darkening/brittleness on some leaves, it's not just confined to the edges of the leave either. If it were just confined to the lower leaves I wouldn't be too concerned but I see some leaves are effected in the mid section as well." Well, I would be concerned even if it were just the lower leaves. Everything about your plant's appearance communicates to you the state of its health and nutrition. The darkening makes me suspect a phosphorous deficiency. This is what a phosphorous deficiency in corn looks like. I don't have a link to a similar picture for a Serrano pepper. "They are in well drained soil and I feed high quality organic liquid nutes." I have to admit that I am not that enthusiastic about organic nutrients for culture under lights. Do you have an analysis of your organic nutes that you can post here, so that we can determine how much available phosphorous they have? Also, what source of water are you using? I prefer to use rainwater or melted snow. Otherwise you need an analysis of your water supply and you run the risk of salts accumulations from the water itself. Hope you get your digital camera soon so you can post some pictures of your plants. We should be able to tell more then. MM