McCain comes through.

cattyles

The Maverick is back. Anyone else watching?

SaveComment578Like1
Comments (578)
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

margo, there are some people who speak more shrilly than others on this board (on both sides) and I find I can ignore them quite successfully when I choose. You can choose to do so too.

I actually like to talk to everyone. Makes things more interesting.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

My medicare supplemental insurance just went up $61 a month. Now that it's been over 6 months I'll thank trump for his efforts.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

I still think Health care should be bought on the open market just like Auto and Home insurance. Different plans and coverages to suit the family or individual. I do not think that employers should be mandated to offer health care.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

vgkg- you know that increase was coming as nothing has changed yet. My guess is you would even complain if Hillary was elected but do so privately in your own home.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"I do not think that employers should be mandated to offer health care."

That's a very valid opinion and many people agree with you. It started out as a perk of employment to sweeten the deal. The benefit to it now is that group insurance is cheaper to purchase so that people who can get insurance through their employer get a better deal.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"as nothing has changed yet"

Actually, you are mistaken. The uncertainty that Trump and the GOP have created in the health insurance arena has caused some providers to raise their rates and there are sources out there documenting them saying this. I know I have posted it in other threads.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Do you also want a Cadillac for free?

Heck no! I don't want anything for free. I'm happy to pay for what I need and I wish more were. The "free" entitlement society is eating our country alive. There are needy and there are perfectly capable greedy and these are two very different categories. The previous 8 years did a fine job of increasing the ranks of perfectly capable greedy.

ETA: As far as choice in healthcare, I'll be very aware of what I choose (should a new healthcare law give me that option). I'll not expect coverage of things I didn't elect and I'll make my choice carefully. For example, I would forego insurance that covered drug addiction treatment. I'd be very aware that should I ever require such treatment, I'd be on my own to pay.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Actually, you are mistaken. The uncertainty that Trump and the GOP have created in the health insurance arena has caused some providers to raise their rates and there are sources out there documenting them saying this. I know I have posted it in other threads.

The insurance companies will use anything to raise rates.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Yes Ann, Obama created a society that obtaining foodstamps was almost glorified. Free phones = votes. He took the slogan *Land of the FREE* to a new meaning;(

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

SandyC.

I am not. I am fighting for millions of poor children who are about to have their affordable care taken away.

I figured I would post this as she will say it again anyway.... OY.... here she is discussing but calls it fighting??? sunflower???????

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

Margo/Ann, I just told you why rates are increasing. I've spent my entire careers (18+ in health insurance, and 13+ in healthcare). You don't think I know? Or are you just spouting sound bytes? Old people+not enough people paying premiums=higher premiums for YOU and me. Rates are going to go up and/or healthcare quality is going to diminish.


Do you not understand about an increasing population who are aging (baby boomers) and obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc. increasing? Or do you deny their very existence? Skim past what I wrote, but you're ignoring industry insider information.

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Chase, I won't refuse either SS or Medicare. I'm not on it yet, but I think we're actually "required" to enroll in Medicare (someone a bit older than me will likely correct me if I'm wrong about this part). I would have liked the option of refusing both and paying into neither, but I didn't have that option. As a result, I'll use both of those programs that we paid into for our entire working life. I am disappointed though because we've been with the same doc for years and years but that group practice does not accept Medicare, so we need to change docs.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mayflowers

I know both of you are in your early 60s, just like me. You cannot pick what you want on the basis of your health TODAY. I did just that, assuming that because I am healthy and have never been hospitalized that my good health would continue. Well, one day in December I woke up with chest pain. I did not have health insurance and had always paid out of pocket. So I went on healthcare.gov and got covered through the ACA. I've since had an EKG, stress test, chest X-ray, and an endoscopy and all came back normal. I still have some chest pain and will just live with it, I guess. But I know if the Republicans repeal the ACA, the insurance companies will claim I have a pre-existing condition and I will be denied coverage. If that happens, I hope I can hang in there without medical care until I am old enough for Medicare in a few years.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

mayflowers, I did the same thing. I thought, I'm healthy and young (mid twenties)! Why do I need a 10% coinsurance/$100 deductible plan (those were the days)? I'll pick the $1500 deductible plan and 30% coinsurance. And I was working in insurance. Thought I knew it all. I had a tumor removed less than 10 months later. Had to get a second job just to cover those bills. You just never know. That's why it's called insurance. Not guaranteed to need it coverage.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Old people+not enough people paying premiums=higher premiums for YOU and me. Rates are going to go up and/or healthcare quality is going to diminish.

Rob333- I get it. ACA expected 26 year olds to sign up for healthcare that they do not care about. They do not want to pay for OLD peoples conditions. They are not an an age that they care about this stuff. I did not have any insurance on myself until I was in my thirties and it came with my employment.

Yes, people are living longer and the longer you live the more likely you will get more issues to deal with. I guess that is why I think each individual should buy a policy that is right for them.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

Margo, so you agree with me. More people need to pay. Including [especially] (I say this), healthy 26 year olds.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

Margo,


You didn't address the part of choosing. It's always been that you cannot choose what coverage is required. Correct? Before HIPAA and before ACA. Correct? It's the carriers that do that. Without governmental regulations, it'll only get worse. Blanket coverage is fair and reasonable. In the end. Sorry, it's true.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Mayflowers, I would never ever suggest anyone pick their plan based on their health today. I would pick a plan based on things likely to happen to a woman my age and even though I'm currently in good health, as a person in my 60s, my assumption would most definitely be that my health will likely deteriorate, not remain stable.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
If employers didn't offer insurance, we would all be on a level playing field. Then everyone with pre existing conditions could go through the angst that poor people struggled with before the ACA. If you were working poor, making just above the FPL and had a pre existing condition , insurance companies could deny coverage and you would be forced to buy a high risk expensive plan.
Most people get health insurance through their employer, so this discussion does not have anything to do with them. They have blamed the ACA for increased premiums, rather than the reality, the GOP blocking every single amendment , dozens, the democrats introduced to cut costs.
This discussion is going nowhere. There is a deep ideological divide with "conservatives" who like racists, and the immigration issue , that attracted Trump's white national base, believe there is an infinite amount of resources and nobody should be "entitled" to services they don't get.
It is a deep divide in the Republican Party, and unfortunately Trumps white national base, with propaganda from the Koch Bros and Breitbart and Fox cable "news" have been brainwashed to think smaller government and decreased regulations will help the middle class.
The empathy gene is missing, but we know that already , as 20-30 M poor people mostly children are about to have affordable medical insurance cut.
I would venture to say the far right will be in for a huge shock when the ACA regulations are removed and they must buy health insurance on the "open" market. Good luck. But it won't matter, as long as Obamacare is repealed, all for huge tax cuts for those of us who pay the Medicare surtax on our unearned income.
But of course those who get insurance through an employer are the most vocal, as this does not affect them, but for 8 years Obamacare has been offensive and considered a civil rights bill and reparations as Limbaugh spewed for years.

Our population is aging, birth rates are nil, the GOP plan will be a disaster for our seniors, not to mention poor women who are about to have their affordable birth control defunded. Studies in Pences home state, show with the defunding of PP and sending the funds to state run family planning services, have resulted in a huge percentage of women not claiming for birth control and birth rates up in the low income sector on Medicaid.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Margo, so you agree with me. More people need to pay. Including [especially] (I say this), healthy 26 year olds.

This is an example of one of the things that frustrates me the most on HT. In no way did Margo even imply that she felt this way. I wish people would quit this game of attempting to speak for others when they are actually just speaking for themselves. Nothing wrong with you having this opinion, Rob, but why even attempt to pin your opinion on another HT participant?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo


rob333

Margo, so you agree with me. More people need to pay. Including [especially] (I say this), healthy 26 year olds.

No, I do not think a 26 year old or anybody actually need to pay for my healthcare.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Ann, that it exactly the same as our health insurance plan. There is no ability to opt out. Actually our plan is better than Medicare, there are no co pays, no limits and we have total freedom to choose whatever doctor we want without restrictions.

Medicare is government run, single payer and from what I can gather Americans over 65 are generally satisfied with it...although I find the whole plan A and Plan B stuff confusing.

With the repeal of Obamacare the Medicare "doughnut hole" will return and people like you, 55-65, will pay a lot more for your insurance because the price limits will be removed in order to allow cheap premiums for the younger population , Premiums for those over 55 can be increased by as much as 50%.

I wonder how many people between 55 and 65 understand how financial impacted they will be. I also wonder how many understand that the "doughtnut hole " safety net will also likely disappear.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Thank you Ann, I was frustrated when I read Rob speaking like I was in favor of that??

Curious Rob, how did you come to that conclusion by what I said?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mayflowers

Ann, where do you get the idea that your insurance plan with be highly individualized once they replace the ACA? I do not see that in the GOP's plan. Which diseases are you willing to bet on that you won't get?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
maddie260

Do people really think that insurance companies are going to offer each and every policy buyer a menu of options to choose from? That is just absurd. Think of the turmoil in the markets with just HMOs/PPOs.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mayflowers

The doughnut hole is exactly what the GOP proposes. I think that's Ted Cruz's plan.

Maddie, it appears that's what Ann believes.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Chase, don't assume I think the Canadian plan is the way I hope our healthcare ends up. I know Medicare is similar to that type of plan and, as I said, I wish I would have had the option to not pay into that program. I would have preferred to keep that money and use it to choose whatever health plan I deemed best for me.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Mayflowers, I don't know what to expect with the new plan anymore than you do at this point. I'm talking about what I'd like to see.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Most regular posters here are well past child-bearing age, yet support the right to have an abortion, even though it doesn't "affect them personally".

Wrong. And clueless. As usual.

I have a daughter. That could affect her. That affects me personally.

I have a grand daugter, and maybe more in the future. That could affect her. That affects me personally.

I have a son and it could affect him as well. That affects me. Personally.

No access to safe abortions will lead to deaths of women. That affects me. I guess it doesn't bother you.

No access to safe abortions will create more children that need government assistance. I thought you and your kind hated providing government assistance to anyone you deem not responsible? Or, right, you do. You just want them born so you can appear holier than thou. Once they're born, too bad, get a job, stop being so lazy, have some responsibility.

Please try to get a clue before posting nonsense.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
The GOP have no plan.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Ann, I don't assume you want that at all.....but that is what Medicare is but with more restrictions and limits.

However, between now and then get ready to pay thousands of dollars more for what you want / need....you may be thankful to have the protections and guarantees of your single payer plan rather than continue to pay ridiculously high premiums past age 65.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

There is a deep ideological divide with "conservatives" who like racists, and the immigration issue , that attracted Trump's white national base, believe there is an infinite amount of resources and nobody should be "entitled" to services they don't get.

SandyC, and yet you were the Houzz commentor who told everyone to get $5000 sofas?? Can you explain that? talk about entitled sounding!!

Plus, it would go along way if you quit calling conservatives racists and white supremacists. Really, it is not fair to blanket people like that.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Wrong. And clueless. As usual.

Please try to get a clue before posting nonsense.

Really jillinnj? You made your point, you could have omitted these sentences and then it would have been a discussion. See how some try and make it a fight. Sunflower?????

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Margo, some have shown who they are. I am no calling all republicans racist, just those who support Trump who has a white supremacist as a WH advisor and the Breibart staff infiltrating our WH and an AG who for years has introduced dozens of anti legal immigration bills, voter suppression bills and of course a Muslim ban. He had that written along with his neo nazi aid Miller the day Trump took office.
I don't know if you read writings and interviews of these people, Bannon, Gorka, Flynn are ideologues who are extreme far right ideologues. Interviews can be heard on Breibart radio.
I
3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

Ann, you didn't respond to this earlier, do you have any comments?

Ann, the government chose that you would pay car insurance, have seat belts, safety glass and other things to protect you and the people with you. Would you like all that to go away too?

ETA: these are changes that the government forced to make things better for consumers so that they would have less severe injuries and be able to have coverage for the costs involved with accidents. The production costs of vehicles rose the need to make these changes and people had to pay money to have insurance. All things analogous to the debate on healthcare. Should people be allowed to have zero coverage, to have bad coverage, should insurance companies and medical companies be allowed to take advantage of consumers?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Before the motorcycle helmet law, we used to call the riders, organ donors.
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
momj47(7A)

Well, sort of.

By coming back he made it certain that the bill would get out of committee, and now it may well be passed.

I guess if you are a RWEx, "coming through" means destroying the lives of tens of millions of Americans.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Plus, it would go along way if you quit calling conservatives racists and white supremacists. Really, it is not fair to blanket people like that.

Sandy, to be honest, I just don't think hardly anyone is reading your repetitive comments anymore. Regardless of the topic, you just keep posting the same comment over and over.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

"My situation is different than some because In a few short years, I'll be on Medicare...Most importantly, I want the federal government out of my health decisions to the greatest extent possible."

Okay then.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Free phones = votes.

Debunked. Many times, in many places, including right here on HT.

If you would just inform yourself, you could avoid the embarrassment that comes with posting false information.

---

I figured I would post this as she will say it again anyway.... OY.... here she is discussing but calls it fighting??? sunflower???????

Did you really just say that? Oy is right!

Reading in context is really important and is a skill you clearly lack.

---

The insurance companies will use anything to raise rates.

Which is an argument FOR the ACA and even more so for single payer, but I guess you're not able to comprehend that.

Healthcare that has the black man's name attached is bad. Get rid of his name and it's all good. So transparent.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
heri_cles

Ann said:

As a result, I'll use both of those programs that we paid into for our entire working life.

You and/or your spouse probably befitted from employer based health insurance as well....another entitlement.

It's pretty easy to pull the ladder up after you climb it, isn't it?

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Well, I am a Trump supporter and I do not believe I am a racist or white supremacist. I guess SandyC believes I am. All I can say to that is believe what you want.

No comment on the sofa recommendations to the dilemmas? I ask this, as everytime I read those recommendations to Houzzers who clearly were not in that budget frame, you came across so elitist and entitled to me. I never called you those names but I sure thought them.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Sunflower, no I didn't respond. The whole thing about car safety is weird for me. Both my husband and I each had a brother that died in a car accident at age 20. Both were wearing a seatbelt. As a kid, seatbelts weren't required and I never wore one. Since my brother's death, I've always worn one. I have mixed emotions about it. I want fewer government "regulations" and more personal choice, but the car topic is weird for me. Heck, I feel tremendous sadness when I see a young person smoking but I don't think it should be against the law. I also feel tremendous sadness when I see an obese 5 year old, but I don't think the parent should be required by law to feed their child according to a big government law.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mayflowers

Can we just move beyond sofas and Sandy's repetitive comments about white nationalists, Bannon et all? TBH, we have read it over and over again and it does derail. But she does understand healthcare and I've learned a lot from her posts.

I think you can look at the plans the GOP's have proposed and know what to expect. Do not be fooled by what Trump says about better healthcare. I don't think he understands much of the healthcare debate. He's a self-proclaimed message guy and that message changes frequently.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

To me, the auto industry is a good analogy for what we're seeing here. Realization that some standards needed to be made to protect consumers even if it meant increased costs. Car manufacturers were not happy, many people didn't want to wear seat belts.

By the 1960s, the American public had become increasingly aware that automobiles needed to be designed for more than just looks. This realization derived partly from consumer crusader Ralph Nader's work to expose the dangers posed by certain vehicles and the need for government safety standards. In response, the U.S. government formed the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in 1970 [source: Bowen].

Since then, NHTSA has implemented regulations affecting all areas of vehicle safety, including automotive glass. Some of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) for automotive glass include:

  • FMVSS 205 -- This set clear standards for automotive window transparency and the strength of automotive glass required to keep occupants inside the vehicle during accidents.
  • FMVSS 212 --This windshield mounting standard was established to ensure a certain level of windshield retention strength during accidents.
  • FMVSS 216 -- This legislation implemented a standard for roof rigidity in case of a rollover.
  • FMVSS 219 -- This standard states that no part of most passenger vehicles can penetrate the windshield more than 6 millimeters (0.24 inches) in a crash. Source
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

What you said was, they didn't anticipate 26 year olds NOT participating. So is that the problem or not? I guess you don't understand the real problem. No point in trying to get you to see that EVERYONE needs to put money into the pot, or skyrocketing costs will continue regardless if you get yours or which legislation is enacted. It's a problem, unless of course it isn't a problem. "Correct?" meant are you meeting me in the middle, but that was foolish of me to think I might've gotten through the morass of your mind.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

LOL, how many times on HT do we see a meeting in the middle?:)

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)


"Margo

48 minutes ago

Yes Ann, Obama created a society that obtaining foodstamps was almost glorified. Free phones = votes. He took the slogan *Land of the FREE* to a new meaning."


The Universal Lifeline program was started by Reagan in 1989 and expanded to wireless phones by Bush in 2005.



3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mayflowers

Ha! Tell us how Fox gets through the morass of your minds and we'll try some of their tactics. ;)


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

"how many times on HT do we see a meeting in the middle"

Well Ann, sadly, it only happened in the past. Far right wingers are incapable of that. I'm at a loss as to it why can't happen any more. I'm leaving off the LOL and :) face for a reason. Our country is dying over so such stupidity, so I don't find any laughter or smiles about never crossing the great divide. So spin, spin, to your heart's desire. If we can't agree not enough healthy people put into the pot is a huge part of the problem, we'll always have the problem.

.

Last, it's not up to you how the dollars are spent. Maybe all those young 26 year olds don't want to pay for cortisone shots and physical therapy for winding down arthritic joints. That is, we all need coverage. Different types at different times. No picking and choosing is necessary. If you decline maternity coverage, you won't outrun skin cancer coverage. You're in lalaland if you think you'll always be healthy and not need insurance. It's a necessary evil. Unless of course, you have a condition and then it's the best thing in the universe.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Really jillinnj? You made your point, you could have omitted these sentences and then it would have been a discussion.

I'm sorry, but when the same nonsense gets repeated over and over again, it's frustrating. You know, like Obamaphones.

I admit my comment was snarky. I am easily frustrated by the constant need to correct the same stuff over and over again.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Uptown Gal

Sigh...all they have to do to please the fat one is just remove Obama from the title.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
xiangirl zone 4/5 Nebraska(5)

It would be a different story if the fat cats of congress had to use the exchanges and get their own healthcare like the rest of the country. They might work together if they had to choose from the everyday people's options.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Rob333- I get your point. Really I do. I just do not think it is even fair for 26 year olds to pay for someone elses healthcare. Not mine, not yours, not anyone. I guess I just can not wrap my head around this whole socialist mind set. Life is not fair. I have many questions. I do not have all the answers or even if I did would they be the right ones. I just express how I feel and have my opinions. I do not think any Healthcare plan provided with government mandates will please everyone anyway. This will always be a topic of contention.

Maybe that is why I say, open market, you pick, you pay, you have yourself to blame. There can always be a safety net put into place for the truly needy.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Ann, you said This is simply ridiculous. McCain is facing a terminal diagnosis and he is brave. Lots of Democrats and Republicans on Hot Topics have criticized McCain. Heck, his confusion at a recent hearing was made fun of on HT, but I bet every person who said mean things on that thread has tremendous respect for and hope for John McCain right now.

You assum the worst of us that oppose you on many topics. It would have been easy to find that OP. But, Ohiomom did it for you. And you skipped right over that.

Ohiomom: Here is the thread where a poster claims he was made fun of. Not true. There was a lot of concern/respect for the Senator from Arizona, well cept' for Rose.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4684683/is-john-mccain-becoming-senile?n=71

This is what you often do ---- skip over proof that your statements are wrong/ proven untrue.

...............................

So, car safety is weird for you so - you won't consider the role of the federal government in road safety? You just know the federal government should have no say over health care coverage insurance?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

mayflowers(8)

Can we just move beyond sofas and Sandy's repetitive comments about white nationalists, Bannon et all? TBH, we have read it over and over again and it does derail. But she does understand healthcare and I've learned a lot from her posts.

So, it is OK that SandyC derails and you want us to move on from our questions as she is aligned with your thinking. I find that you are falling into the typical liberal stereotype mayflowers. You want to censor others who do not think like you. I was so hoping we were making some progress. *sigh*

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Margo the ACA is a safety net for the working poor.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Anyone hear of how the AHCA (or what they call it) impacts the premiums for Medicare supplement insurance?

They are provided by private insurers, and the premiums for 60-64 year olds are projected to skyrocket (they (insurance) will be allowed a 5:1 ratio. I would guess the same would be true - but guessing isn't very helpful.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
And no sofas have nothing to do with 30 M people about to lose healthcare.
FYI, I recommend investing in a good sofa if you can afford one. It will last 20 years if the frame is sturdy, saves money instead of buying a new couch every few years.
It took me many years and many dogs and kids and many crappy sofas to realize a sofa is the most used piece of furniture in most people's homes and is worth the initial investment.
What this has to do with healthcare I will never know.
There is a deep ideological divide with " conservatives" but unfortunately not all people are able to buy insurance in the "open " market. There is no such thing.
Insurance depends on the number of enrolled. It's about decreasing the risk pools.
3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

The impacts on Medicare are being ignored. Supplemental insurance will skyrocket and the closing of the " doughnut hole " will be gone. With no controls on prescription drug costs in this legislation , all seniors can expect to pay significantly more for prescription drugs....not that seniors are big users of prescription drugs !

When it finally dawns on conservatives over 55 how hard this will hit them financially they may change their tune......but it will be too late.


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

"vgkg- you know that increase was coming as nothing has changed yet. My guess is you would even complain if Hillary was elected but do so privately in your own home."

Margo I wasn't complaining, I was thanking trump for his efforts. Where's your renowned sense of humor today? nyuk.

Although the way trump and his co-conspirator repubs have deliberately created chaos in the HC markets over the past 6 months with their wishy washy numbskull handling of healthcare leaving the insurance industry scratching their heads it's no wonder they're trying to grab what they can in all the politically motivated confusion.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mayflowers

Maybe that is why I say, open market, you pick, you pay, you have yourself to blame.

Who pays for the costs of your treatment that your insurance doesn't cover? Your insurance never covers the full cost--someone else is subsidizing your treatment from their premiums. If you really want to be fair, you should pay out of pocket for all the costs and forget insurance.

BTW, I didn't say it was okay if Sandy derails with her favorite topic. I said the opposite.


3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
koyse
I think of insurance, including health insurance, as a ponzi scheme but in a good way. The premiums of the people who are healthier (usually younger) and have fewer claims are used to pay the expenses of the few at the top who have more health problems. Hence, the individual mandate intended to keep the bottom part of the pyramid broad enough to keep costs down while still meeting the needs of those at the top.

If people didn't buy insurance until they are more likely to regularly need it, i.e., they are older and statistically more likely to have heart problems, cancer, infections, need joint replacements, etc., the Ponzi scheme would be top heavy and premiums would be very, very high - higher risk means more claims and more costly claims, plus insurance companies have to make a profit.

Add to this the reality that health care costs continue to increase - hospitals pass on the costs of care for the uninsured to paying customers (and under the ACA the hospitals are seeing reduced costs for uninsured), hospital mergers are giving consumers less ability to shop around for the best rates (when there is the luxury of time to meet health care needs), the number of available hospital beds has been decreasing, super bugs are evolving to become resistant to antibiotics, infectious diseases can spread more easily due to increased world travel, viruses are migrating between species, e.g., avian flu, increasingly aging population - and it seems irresponsible to leave health insurance (which is not the same as health care) to an unregulated free market.

The ACA certainly is far from perfect, but I'd rather see an attempt to remedy its flaws than throwing it out to start from scratch again.
4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Won't the defenders of the death of ACA come and explain to me how my worries about a skyrocket increase in Medicare supplemental insurance are unwarranted - or how they are fair - or deserved?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Oh, the end comment of that previous thread about McCain's health concerns was also quite nasty. So, one near the top and the current final one.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
linda_6

Why can't we go with the Federal Employees Health Insurance Program? What's wrong with giving everyone this option.

"However, they do get an excellent set of benefits by virtue of the fact that government employees form a large pool. This enables federal employees to have wider choices. And, by virtue of the fact that they form a large pool of insureds, there is no waiting periods for most of the plans. That means their insurance protects them immediately."

If we can be added to the pool the rates should be very reasonable for everyone.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Mayflowers, I don't know if you participated in healthcare discussions before the election here on HT, but there was a far right contingency that do not believe poor people deserve "entitlements". Even , after fact after fact by healthcare professionals and insurance professionals, discussing the facts , the majority of those on Medicaid are children and seniors, they always supported the work requirement suggested by the GOP, or just defunding programs that hep the working poor.
Sick babies and seniors in nursing homes can't work.
Those who are able, do work.
We are not all fortunate enough to be able to hold a full time job with benefits, for various reasons. Not all of our citizens have the capacity for one reason or another.
Many of Trumps own base fall into this category, with the opioid addiction epidemic.
I work with foster kids who's parents are incarcerated or have had their parental rights revoked. Children born into poverty and drug and alcohol addicted families are not responsible for the choices their parents make.
There was an underlying racist tone to many of the comments, many anecdotal comments, about lazy people, undeserving, the usual welfare queen analogies.
Just like multiple threads on food stamps and other government subsidies, the "conservatives" and the extreme Ayn Randers like Rand Paul( hey is that why he is named Rand?) want no government intervention.
These are the same people who want to defund poor mothers affordable birth control and cancer screening, resulting in more babies born on Medicaid .
Half of the babies last year were born to moms on Medicaid.

Healthcare is only going to get more expensive as our population ages. As Trump told us, "who knew, healthcare was very complicated" , he also said, "even Hillary couldn't get it right after 8 years" giving her the credit she deserves for trying to solve a very complicated problem, that doesn't have a black and white solution, like Fox "news" tells their minions.
Healthcare is and always has been a bipartisan issue, just like immigration, in which sanctuary cities were instituted during the Reagan era, by priests in our cities for people seeking asylum from violence in Central America.
Trump has polarized both of these issues by appealing to the far right of his base.
Most of America are centrists, not right wing ideologues.
As we all know Obamacare was a republican plan, that was very distasteful to the "conservatives" of the GOP of 2016 that has been hijacked by right wing donors.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

You and/or your spouse probably befitted from employer based health insurance as well....another entitlement.

Not an entitlement at all! But, rather a benefit offered by some companies to attract employees and used as part of a salary package. Far from an entitlement!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

I can't wait until the "less regulations republicans" try to buy insurance offered to people over 60. It will be the highest cost because they are basically high risk. It is foolish to think you can eliminate the younger people and have affordable insurance. No matter how you look at it, insurance or not is a gamble. How many people got cancer, diabetes, or some other life long medical illness at a young age and their family went bankrupt? Or have children the parents cannot afford to treat, such as the UK baby? People who have been lucky have no idea what can happen when medical bills skyrocket or the medical profession cannot afford to treat you without a huge cost. Bankruptcy is an option if you have that option to sell a home. For some it's not even an option.

The GOP is selling repeal on the lies you can pick your plan and everyone will be able to choose....only if you can afford the high cost is what they fail to tell you.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Who pays for the costs of your treatment that your insurance doesn't cover?

I should (and do) pay for the costs not covered by my insurance.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
koyse
linda_6: Going to one program is the single payer system that is anathema to some. Plus, I don't think it would be without its drawbacks - large bureaucracy, lack of competition. I'm not well versed in single payer systems, but I have read that if the federal government were to go to a single payer, it would cost far less than the total of Medicare, Medicaid, VA benefits, etc.
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

..... but there was a far right contingency that do not believe poor people deserve "entitlements".....


I will never understand how some people don't see the benefits to all of society that having as healthy and as educated/skilled population as possible would have. Before you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps you have to have boots.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Won't the defenders of the death of ACA come and explain to me how my worries about a skyrocket increase in Medicare supplemental insurance are unwarranted - or how they are fair - or deserved?

No one can explain your own worries to you. You and all of us are subject to the economy, supply and demand, government regulations and laws, costs of goods and services, etc. Then as a country, we need to figure out how to pay for what the government provides. If something is financially unsustainable for the country's economy, it won't survive. ACA is financially unsustainable.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
koyse
I should add that I don't know how accurate those figures are about the cost savings under a single payer system.
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Can any Californians fill us in on the recent plan to go to single payer in your state? Was it tossed out due to the high cost of such a plan? I heard some news coverage of the idea but I would think there was likely much more news coverage within the state of California.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
koyse
The statement that the "ACA is financially unstable" is not accurate. I believe I saw projections that even in its current form it could go on for at least ten years. If the ACA were supported by Congress (adequate appropriations, ending threats to repeal it which creates uncertainty in the market, enforcing the individual mandate, etc.), it could continue indefinitely. Again, not to say the ACA is perfect, but it's certainly not in a "death spiral."
2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Margo I wasn't complaining, I was thanking trump for his efforts. Where's your renowned sense of humor today? nyuk.

Why thank you vgkg;) As for my humor, well, I am on meme withdrawl, lol. Trying to please some forum members, but not sure it will anyway. I am sure they will attack my LOLing or persist with the reading comprehension thing. It is all good, you know I like any attention I can get;))

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

Trying to please some forum members,


I'd settle for answers to direct question, even if I totally disagree. Not gonna get any answers. Try upthread, for instance. Guess I'll have to settle for smary quips and ;) LOL!

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Who pays for the costs of your treatment that your insurance doesn't cover? Your insurance never covers the full cost--someone else is subsidizing your treatment from their premiums. If you really want to be fair, you should pay out of pocket for all the costs and forget insurance.

We pay for the costs of our treatment that our insurance does not cover. Usually there is a percentage that is not covered that comes from out of pocket.

Yes, if health insurance was on the open market we could either buy from the offerings with various plans or forget insurance all together. Wasn't it Obama who mandated insurance? if you did not buy in you faced a penalty that grew each year.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

Why is ACA financially unsustainable?

We already know that insurers pulled out of markets for two reasons directly related to Congress (not the ACA):

- They didn't pay what they owed for "CSR payments and providing sufficient money for reinsurance programs or high-risk pools"

The nation's state insurance commissioners urged the Trump administration Wednesday to ensure continued funding for payments to health insurers to cover cost-sharing reductions for low-income exchange plan members.

The National Association of Insurance Commissioners, most of whose members come from Republican-led states, told Office of Management and Budget director Mick Mulvaney in a letter that continuing the cost-sharing reduction payments "is critical to the viability and stability of the individual health insurance markets in a significant number of states across the country."

The NAIC also wrote to Senate leaders Wednesday urging them to take swift action to stabilize the individual insurance markets, including funding the CSR payments and providing sufficient money for reinsurance programs or high-risk pools.

The commissioners warned Mulvaney, a fierce opponent of the Affordable Care Act and critic of the law's CSR payments, that more insurers will exit the markets in 2018 and premiums will spike if carriers don't receive assurance soon that they will receive the approximately $7 billion in federal payments.

Immediate action is needed, they said, because carriers are making decisions now whether to offer plans on the exchanges in 2018 and where to set premiums.

Citing uncertainty over the CSR payments as one big factor, insurers say they'll have to charge much higher rates
for next year. Plans in Connecticut have requested increases ranging from 15% to 34%. Maryland rate hikes range from 18% to nearly 60%. Most of Virginia's insurers have requested double-digit jumps.

- They removed players (by saying they would not enforce the mandate) and they sowed uncertainty by saying a half dozen different paths over the last 6 months.

Anthem, as it did with its Ohio pullout, blamed a "volatile" market for individual health plans, as well as "uncertainty" about the federal government's stance on Obamacare's rules and regulations.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

I'd settle for answers to direct question, even if I totally disagree. Not gonna get any answers.

rob333 what question do you want answered that I missed?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

So what happens to the working poor who can't afford the policies or God forbid the additional costs that aren't covered?

Ann, Margo, Mimi.....got an answer?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Every country has working poor and each country and each healthcare law handles the situation in various ways, including Medicaid in our country.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

chase- good question.

I think there should be some form of *pool* to cover the truly needy. Maybe some tiered system to work according to the working poors income. I am of course being vague as the details would need to be worked out.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

I go to the doctor and he bills $150 to insurance. Insurance says we're giving you $57, write off the rest. So there's that. Someone without insurance is expected to pay $150.

Consider emergency hospital visit. Person goes to ER but doesn't have insurance. Hospital has to treat them. Bill is $3500. Eventually, they get $750 out of him but fail to collect any more. Who pays for that?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

I am not advocating throwing poor children and poor seniors under the bus, but I do believe people must TRY to become more self relying instead of wanting the government to take care of things. Cause and effect. Some people can not help their conditions but many can.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dadoes

"Ann: I should (and do) pay for the costs not covered by my insurance."

Right. You get network and insurer-provided discounts on services, and there's a huge difference between paying for routine doctor appts vs. hospitalization for a heart attack, cancer & chemotherapy/radiation, kidney stone lithotripsy, gall bladder removal, and such. Put your money and convictions where your mouth is, refuse your employer's policy (is there a requirement that you participate in it?) and pay for your medical care directly!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

See sunflower- with your example. The doctors over bill if you have insurance. That is wrong. What ever the doctor visit cost is (with or without insurance) should be one flat price. Hospitals are crazy with the cost of an asprin. Depends on your insurance. that is wrong. All asprin should cost the same.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

All the government has to do is look at what the rest of the Western World has been doing about medical care for years and follow suit.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Margo, yes, one flat and posted price!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Ann, any of that addressed in any of these options?

As it relates to the working poor. ......how do you reconcile what you said with the proposed cuts to Medicaid and the number of States who chose not to expand Medicaid?


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Ann, once again you misread. And the skipping you do - well real skipping is probably healthy.

Here it is again: Anyone hear of how the AHCA (or what they call it) impacts the premiums for Medicare supplement insurance?

They are provided by private insurers, and the premiums for 60-64 year olds are projected to skyrocket (they (insurance) will be allowed a 5:1 ratio. I would guess the same would be true - but guessing isn't very helpful.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Yes, when you go to the hospital they could hand you a menu with prices listed. You want an asprin. $5. or whatever they deem profitable. You want TV. $20 a day, private room, and so on.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

meanom- I am tired of many of you guys saying we misread or do not have reading comprehension. Has the thought ever occured to you that maybe you are not clear in what you are writing. Things can be taken very different by many people. Plus, so many like to ask *gotcha* questions that it makes one leary to answer some times. Can we just try to be nicer to one another, a little;)

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

When the 55 plus group figure out that they are the ones who will suffer financially there will be hell to pay along with their huge premiums, co-pays and insured limits.

They need to stop listening to the daily feed and do some serious homework

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

McCain's statement on Trumps tweet about transgenders

"STATEMENT BY SASC CHAIRMAN JOHN McCAIN ON TRANSGENDER AMERICANS IN THE MILITARY

Washington, D.C. ­– U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, released the following statement today on President Trump’s tweet regarding transgender Americans in the military:

“The President’s tweet this morning regarding transgender Americans in the military is yet another example of why major policy announcements should not be made via Twitter.

“The statement was unclear. The Department of Defense has already decided to allow currently-serving transgender individuals to stay in the military, and many are serving honorably today. Any American who meets current medical and readiness standards should be allowed to continue serving. There is no reason to force service members who are able to fight, train, and deploy to leave the military—regardless of their gender identity. We should all be guided by the principle that any American who wants to serve our country and is able to meet the standards should have the opportunity to do so—and should be treated as the patriots they are.

“The Department of Defense is currently conducting a study on the medical obligations it would incur, the impact on military readiness, and related questions associated with the accession of transgender individuals who are not currently serving in uniform and wish to join the military. I do not believe that any new policy decision is appropriate until that study is complete and thoroughly reviewed by the Secretary of Defense, our military leadership, and the Congress.

“The Senate Armed Services Committee will continue to follow closely and conduct oversight on the issue of transgender individuals serving in the military.”


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

So, it is OK that SandyC derails and you want us to move on from our questions as she is aligned with your thinking.

I'm not speaking for mayflowers, but I think you missed the point.

Who cares what sofa anyone recommended to anyone else on another forum, or their attitude when recommending it? What does decorating advice have to do with Hot Topics? Nothing. You need to leave whatever school girl games you played over there there. It's not relevant here, and I for one am sick of hearing about it.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"The doctors over bill if you have insurance."

Or do they expect they'll get some $57 payments and some $150 payments and, based on history, they know that they'll get the total $$ they need?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

jillinnj- how about calming down and trying to talk just a bit nicer please;)

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

sigh.


rob333

Margo,

You didn't address the part of choosing. It's always been that you
cannot choose what coverage is required. Correct? Before HIPAA and
before ACA. Correct? It's the carriers that do that. Without
governmental regulations, it'll only get worse. Blanket coverage is fair
and reasonable. In the end. Sorry, it's true.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Sunflower- I have no idea what the payments are that they will recieve. I think there should be one price for each item/service for every person. How it gets paid is another story. If they have insurance than the insurance will pay whatever percentage their plan offers. If they have no insurance than it should be paid out of pocket. If you can not pay your bill, and recieved the service, the hospital or doctor should persue the debt owed like any other outstanding bill. Just like how I do it at the vet office for my dog.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

When it finally dawns on conservatives over 55 how hard this will hit them financially they may change their tune......but it will be too late.

I think this really only applies to the far right wing Trumpsters.

Most of the country has figured out that the ACA is actually a good thing and they don't want it repealed. They want it improved, but not repealed.

It's only the ones that don't think, only listen to Trump, and just want the black guy's name off the damn legislation in the hopes he doesn't get credit historically.

Oh, and the very wealthy without a conscience that will benefit financially from all this.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

"Margo Sunflower-
I have no idea what the payments are that they will recieve.... If they have no
insurance than it should be paid out of pocket"


If they don't have insurance, they can't pay for it out of pocket. Because, if they could afford medical services, they would've already had insurance. Right?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"If they have insurance than the insurance will pay whatever percentage their plan offers. If they have no insurance than it should be paid out of pocket."

That is the way it is now. The bill is $150 and insured people pay the negotiated rate and non-insured pay $150.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Well rob- I passed on answering that because I do not know if it will get worse without government regulations.

Yes, it has always been blanket coverage unless you opt for catastrophic coverage only with a high deductible.

I am not for blanket coverage. I say pick your own plan. Maybe a plan broken down into a female plan or a male plan. This would require some serious brain storming and discussion by the insurance companies.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

If they don't have insurance, they can't pay for it out of pocket. Because, if they could afford medical services, they would've already had insurance. Right?

Not necessarily. My son opted for the penalty for not getting insurance under ObamaCare. He would still pay for his services out of pocket if he had to.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Story: I went to a plastic surgeon to get a mole removed on my face. I asked "how much"( this was maybe 15 years ago), he told me $250. I said "Do it". He then suggested I run it through my insurance as it should be covered. I let him. Do you know he ran that procedure through 3 times to try to meet the deductible as we had talked about doing some other work. The second time I thought it was a mistake, the third time I contacted the insurance company and told them that I only had ONE visit. I threw up the red flag. After much time went by he then tried to bill my procedure under his partners billing. I called on that too. Then they came after me for the original $250. I told them to pound sand. LOL. I never paid anything. Jerk! So much fraud going on.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

My niece was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer at age 28. Her treatments would be well into the hundreds and hundreds of thousands.....out of pocket? I don't think so.

One serious car accident, then what?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
momj47(7A)

Well, I am a Trump supporter and I do not believe I am a racist or white supremacist.+

Maybe you don't believe that but ........

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

mom- believe what you want. You are not my maker.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

You passed on? Answering me? My point was, it was never the government interfering with what types of things are covered and when. So their interference won't change it now. Stop pushing for people to lose coverage, thinking you'll get some sort of choice you never had before.

.

It's not up to you to decide how and what carriers will pay. It's up to them. It's their business to run as they please. At least, that's what a TRUE republican would say. Not this, I'm gonna tell everyone else how to live their life group. That's not republicanism. It may be Republicanism, today's new, thrash the entire world to get their's and kick out all those who balanced liberalism kind of thing, but it's far from republican.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

My neighbors cancer treatment, about halfway through treatment, has topped 1 million in charges- impossible to pay out of pocket. Not what she expected at 49. I sincerely hope your son never experiences a serious illness without insurance, Margo.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"Maybe a plan broken down into a female plan or a male plan."

So that females can be charged more? What's next, genetic testing to see if you come from a line of healthy people and they'll charge you less vs. the lady with breast cancer in her family?

How about people just have insurance and it pays for what illnesses you get. Male, female, black, white, Asian, Caucasian, gay/straight, etc.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Now you can see why Healthcare is not passing on a bipartisan way. We are a good example of this. I think everyone makes valid or good points about this. One size sure does not fit all.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

What has to happen is, everyone needs to suck it up, dump into one pot, and then get out what you need. Because EVERYONE needs coverage. Small or large, it will get used. One size doesn't fit all, but getting what you need makes the most sense.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Sunflower- why don't we all live in the same houses? Why don't we all drive the same cars? Why don't we wear all the same clothes? Why don't we all go to Harvard? Why don't we all go on the same vacations? Why don't we all have the same job? Come on.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"Sunflower- why don't we all live in the same houses? Why don't we all drive the same cars? Why don't we wear all the same clothes?"

Personal preferences.

"Why don't we all go to Harvard? Why don't we all go on the same vacations? Why don't we all have the same job? Come on."

Ability. Ability to be accepted into Harvard, afford that vacation (or preference to go to that place), ability to do that job.

It's not the same thing.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

I mean if it is one big pot, let's make a pot for housing, a pot for automobiles, a pot for education, etc. Suck it up and let's all be equal on everything. OY!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

Chase, remember all those years ago? I told you Americans would never go for universal coverage and it was because of the choice thing. It's come home to roost. sigh

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Yeah but they love Medicare....where is the choice there? Apparently when you turn 65 magic happens and you love government run, single payer

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

SMH


I knew it then, aint no changin' them now.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Ann, once again you misread. And the skipping you do - well real skipping is probably healthy.

Here it is again: Anyone hear of how the AHCA (or what they call it) impacts the premiums for Medicare supplement insurance?

They are provided by private insurers, and the premiums for 60-64 year olds are projected to skyrocket (they (insurance) will be allowed a 5:1 ratio. I would guess the same would be true - but guessing isn't very helpful.

A typical 60-64 is not yet eligible for Medicare. Why would Medicare supplemental costs impact this group? Am I misreading or are you mistyping?:)

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Chase, there will be no hell to pay from me if my premiums as a person in my early 60s increase. My view is much wider than my little world over the next few years. The national debt and the financial well being (and freedoms) of the country left to my children and grandchildren is far more significant.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Two different points


1) "Anyone hear of how the AHCA (or what they call it) impacts the premiums for Medicare supplement insurance?

They are provided by private insurers"


Private insurance premiums for supplemental care will increase


2) "and the premiums for 60-64 year olds are projected to skyrocket (they (insurance) will be allowed a 5:1 ratio. "

The premiums for 60-64 year olds are projected to skyrocket (they (insurance) will be allowed a 5:1 ratio.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Good for you Ann......not minding that your premiums will skyrocket to subsidize those younger than you as you wait for your socialized medicine to kick in......how positively liberal of you

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Yeah but they love Medicare....where is the choice there? Apparently when you turn 65 magic happens and you love government run, single payer

Nope, nearly everyone gets supplemental plans (tailored to their needs) to add choice.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Chase, I look at it as paying for my older person needs. A younger person should pay less because they typically need less health care. But, maybe this way, some of those young people will actually get insurance as their rates will be more in line with their use of healthcare.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

.......and wait until you see what happens to the cost of those choices . Hope you are still smiling.

Too bad for those in your same age bracket that can't afford a double to their insurance costs......to bad so sad.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Rob, careful, you might run out of breath with all that sighing:)

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

How do you resolve that with the fact that older people, especially old people, usually have less income? So: less money, more health problems, higher premiums.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Something Ann said has been niggling at me.......do only those who pay into Medicare through their work get medicare? Ann said she contributed all her working years...fine,,,but what if you didn't work? Do you still get Medicare?



1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mayflowers

Ann: I should (and do) pay for the costs not covered by my insurance.

Margo: We pay for the costs of our treatment that our insurance does not cover. Usually there is a percentage that is not covered that comes from out of pocket.

I don't mean your deductible or co-pay. If you had a serious illness, others in your group or pool will pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars your treatment may cost. So you aren't paying for your total expenses--others help. But you say you only want people to pay for their own expenses, whether they're 26 with no medical costs or a senior with thousands of dollars in expenses. With insurance, we subsidize everyone already and we are subsidized in return if and when our need arises.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

They don't get it mayflowers. I'm not sure what they don't get, but they don't understand how it works or why there is a pool that they're putting into/taking out of. This is a lesson in futility

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

The repeal-only health care bill amendment failed 55-45 just now in the Senate. Here are the Republican senators who voted no:

  • Shelley Moore Capito
  • John McCain
  • Lisa Murkowski
  • Susan Collins
  • Lamar Alexander
  • Rob Portman
  • Dean Heller

Six of those seven senators previously voted yes on this repeal-only plan in 2015, which Obama vetoed when it hit his desk.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Sunflower- why don't we all live in the same houses? Why don't we all drive the same cars? Why don't we wear all the same clothes? Why don't we all go to Harvard? Why don't we all go on the same vacations? Why don't we all have the same job? Come on.

Are you saying some people are more deserving of healthcare? Or better healthcare? Because of how much money they make, or the family they were born into?

Come on, is right.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Some people will have better healthcare than others. Some people do have better healthcare than others now. Some people have had better healthcare then others in the past. This is nothing new. Money has a way of buying things. I accept that as reality. I do not begrudge anyone's wealth. I guess if we were suppose to all be equal we would be born that way. I have to live without things that I will never have, but I do not expect others to give me what is theirs.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
finn flanman

You are eligible for premium-free Part A if you are age 65 or older and you or your spouse worked and paid Medicare taxes for at least 10 years

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

So if not then no coverage ?

Are Medicare deductions from your salary mandatory regardless of your job?

Are non working spouses covered by virtue of their spouses contribution ?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Margo - let's talk specifics. Bill Gates gets melanoma skin cancer. The homeless guy on the corner, same age as Mr Gates, gets melanoma skin cancer. Is Mr. Gates more entitled to healthcare than the homeless guy on the corner?

Notice we're not talking about anything elective. We're talking about treatment to save your life. If you get treatment, you have an almost 100% chance of recovery. If you don't get treatment, you have an almost 100% chance of dying. Soon.


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Lots of people stay in dead end , boring jobs just to get health insurance and benefits .Government employees and employees in corporate America often give up opportunities of advancement, and entrepreneurship and wealth, just for the benefits.
We used to be a leader in innovation and development.
The ACA allowed entrepreneurs and those who wanted to start their own businesses, and hire American workers, and self employed, artists, musicians, writers to purchase insurance until they could afford it on their own, and of course it helped students and those that are just starting out of college in entry level jobs. Many receiving subsidies are only on them for a short while, just like food stamps, it is a bridge until one is able to afford it on their own.
I would rather see a healthy middle class than those who neglect their health and end up with a catastrophic or untreated disease.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
A lot of these posts have inaccurate reasoning. Those who are fortunate enough to have insurance through an employer are benefiting from huge subsidies and tax breaks given to their employer, through the ACA.
The employer is able to offer quality plans for a good price. It is some of us in the private market that saw premiums go up, but they are a small group of people.
The millions that receive affordable insurance now from the ACA are the working poor, those working two jobs at fast food restaurants, janitors and other low income workers. We are all not fortunate enough to be able to obtain a college education, we have a country where half of the people have an IQ less than 100.
Most that benefited from Medicaid expansion and the ACA are children. They have no choice or personal responsibility.
FYI, last year I had a 3 day hospital admission with a minor surgery. Thanks to my insurance, high premium high deductible all I had to pay was my deductible, and the over $100K bill was covered, including ER, ambulance and surgery, X-rays, meds etc.
Of course the provider only got the contracted rate, about 50K, but that is how insurance works. The hospital is paid what the insurance contracts for. The provider receives subsidies from the ACA.
The providers in rural America are most at threat with repeal, they will lose their subsidies from the ACA to cover poor people on Medicaid and Obamacare. Sad.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

jillinnj

Margo - let's talk specifics. Bill Gates gets melanoma skin cancer. The homeless guy on the corner, same age as Mr Gates, gets melanoma skin cancer. Is Mr. Gates more entitled to healthcare than the homeless guy on the corner?

Notice we're not talking about anything elective. We're talking about treatment to save your life. If you get treatment, you have an almost 100% chance of recovery. If you don't get treatment, you have an almost 100% chance of dying. Soon.

Is Bill Gates more entitled, no. But let's face it, Bill Gates has got the money to pay with or without insurance. Your specifics are not very specific. Are saying only one gets to live? Or should they both be treated?

Sorry, I did not answer promptly, I stepped out to go to dinner at a Mexican Restaurant. I hope I didn't look too White Supremacist??

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

jillinnj- if I make the specifics. I say Bill Gates of course has the right to treatment as he can pay. The homeless guy on the corner should get treatment and it should come from a *pool* that has been collected for such incidents. I know you will say that is the ACA but if so, it is not working well. I think the government could cut their spending in other areas and contribute that money to the help for the poor and indigent.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Or everyone could contibute to the pool based on income, not age, and everyone could have access to full and complete healthcare.....with the doctors of their choice. It is doable

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Part 1. I know you will say that is the ACA but if so, it is not working well.

Yes, that is the ACA with medicaid expansion. Yes, the ACA isn't working well. It needs repairing. (Agreement). Significant repairs.

Part 2. I think the government could cut their spending in other areas and contribute that money to the help for the poor and indigent.

Agree. See part 1

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Lynn: no, they are not switching off. (Maybe you were joking but I'll do the list - it's so short it's easy.)

Last week's vote was stopped by three Republicans: Collins, Murkowski, and Capito.

For the first vote today, Yes from was Collins and Murkowski, and 7 others. (Capito was No as was McCain).

For the second vote today: Yes from Collins, Murkowski, and Capito. Joined by McCain, Alexander, Heller, Portman. 7 (Some staunch conservatives voted No on the first but not on the second).

The chart mentioned way up is very useful while being simple. (edited to say it was shared by Mayflowers on the other thread)

Which health-care plans the Senate is voting on (and who to watch)

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

How do you resolve that with the fact that older people, especially old people, usually have less income? So: less money, more health problems, higher premiums.

I'm just getting caught up so I haven't read beyond this comment (quoted above) yet but I will in a minute. The older group of people enter Medicare around 65 and their healthcare insurance costs lessen greatly at that time.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

I don't mean your deductible or co-pay. If you had a serious illness, others in your group or pool will pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars your treatment may cost. So you aren't paying for your total expenses--others help. But you say you only want people to pay for their own expenses, whether they're 26 with no medical costs or a senior with thousands of dollars in expenses. With insurance, we subsidize everyone already and we are subsidized in return if and when our need arises.

Yes, that's the way all insurance works. Car insurance is no different.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Chase, medicare was always taken out of my pay - at every job I ever worked at. It wasn't my option.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Margo - let's talk specifics. Bill Gates gets melanoma skin cancer. The homeless guy on the corner, same age as Mr Gates, gets melanoma skin cancer. Is Mr. Gates more entitled to healthcare than the homeless guy on the corner?

Not more entitled but more able to obtain the treatment. Americans are "entitled" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Ann, oh my you are so far off base, it's impossible discussing with an Ayn Rander, devoid of soul.
Children do not have a choice, the disabled and sick seniors don't have a choice. According to the US Centers for Medicaid and Medicare , seniors made up 13% of our population, but account for 34% of our health-related spending in 2010, it is probably higher now.
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation close to half of seniors 65 and older had incomes below twice the poverty thresholds under the Supplemental Poverty Measure, but you already know that, we have had multiple threads on poverty and the elderly, women much more than men, women of color even higher.
To think seniors medical insurance costs are low is la la land.
Our population is aging. My mil is about to be placed in a nursing home for 10K / month, we have been paying for home care at 16K/ month for 12-16 hrs of care/ day and they have excellent coverage from a teachers pension and Medicare. The nursing home or home care is not covered.
That doesn't account for my FIL, who will either go into independent living or move in with one of their kids. Luckily they have the funds, but most middle class families don't.
Healthcare for seniors is very expensive and since many of our seniors live well below the FPL, Medicare does not cover much.
Medicare for those with income is very, very expensive, including Medicare IRMAA, and part B and D, but my husband is fortunate to be able to afford the insurance.
Medicare is next on the chopping block and many seniors now on Medicaid will not have their nursing homes covered.
We no longer have extended families, when people lived on farms and took care of their elders. As urbanization has progressed many seniors live in poverty , are malnourished , as their savings are drained and forced into nursing homes.
2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

SandyC.

Ann, oh my you are so far off base, it's impossible discussing with an Ayn Rander, devoid of soul.

You have read any of Ayn Rand's works, sandy?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Yup sure have.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Dark Money too.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Did Ayn Rand write Dark Money?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
eageree

Ann - "The older group of people enter Medicare around 65 and their healthcare insurance costs lessen greatly at that time."

Now that we are on Medicare and Medicare supplements, my husband and I pay more for insurance premiums than we ever had. We always had excellent health insurance which was fully covered by my husband's employer until his last couple years employed with them. I'm not complaining as we have been quite happy with Medicare and our supplement.

As Sandy mentioned, Medicare can be expensive with the premiums for parts A, B and D and especially if IRMAA is involved. Many low income seniors can not afford the premiums for part B or if they go with a less expensive plan, they have have deductibles and copays.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Eageree, that surprises me. My husband has breakfast weekly with a group of guys he used to work with (all retired). He's the youngest and they all say they pay very little for medicare supplementals (around $150 or less per month) and no high deductibles. We currently pay over $1100 per month for the two of us with a deductible of thousands.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
The people that will be affected the most are seniors in the donut hole. Now they can only charge three times higher than young healthy people, for 50-64, called age rating. The AARP calls it a critical consumer protection . With the repeal seniors will be charged 5X more age 47-60, and more over age 60.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.

Medicare costs a lot, plus the supplements, plus the IRMAA.
Way more than Insurance on the private market.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
eageree

Keep in mind that for years our insurance premium was covered 100% by my husband's employer. Yes, our medicare supplementals started out around $150/ month - plus the Medicare premium and part D premium, which is minimal but is increasing every year - but the supplemental premium has increased after the "discount" for the first year. Then there is the IRMAA. One could say we have a "cadillac plan", something low income seniors can't afford. We chose this plan because of previous conditions and knew we would be paying more for premiums than we ever had before but have accepted that for the excellent coverage.

I used to work at a local nonprofit that served a local income population and met many seniors who did not have supplemental because they couldn't afford the premium - that meant they would pay 20% of their healthcare costs, which most couldn't afford so they avoided care.

Don't know all about the insurance plan you have since your husband retired but its not unusual that a plan offered to a retiree is more expensive than when employed.

There may be more than a few things about Medicare that may surprise you when you are actually part of it.


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
eageree

And we also had to change primary care Dr's when going on Medicare as our Dr's didn't participate with Medicare. At first I was disappointed but it has turned out ok. I do try to choose physicians that aren't owned by a hospital - that's another whole can of worms.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
I made sure my husband signed up for the supplements immediately as he has a pre existing condition. Who knows how long those will be covered under Medicare.
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

I pay $900 a year, my husband pays $1200. Full medical coverage including diagnostic tests and routine tests such as mamos, no deductibles, no co-pays, no limits, no restrictions on doctors or specialists.

Some non critical procedures may have wait times but any doctor worth their salt doesn't wait to the last minute to schedule your knee replacement.

Ain't perfect but apparently either is Medicare and for sure not Medicaid or the private insurance market

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"I pay $900 a year, my husband pays1200."

So Canadian health care is not free. I think some people misunderstand that the government pays for everything.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

That is what we pay in Ontario. Here the health care premium is based on income so very low income residents pay very little or nothing.

Other Provinces have different fee schedules . I believe one of the Prairie Provinces pays nothing in terms of premiums but nothing is free....it's part of our tax base.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

It depends on which province you live in. We in Sask. do not pay anything, no premiums nada. But yes, we pay slightly higher taxes which for my money is just fine.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Not more entitled but more able to obtain the treatment. Americans are "entitled" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Why should Mr. Gates be more able to obtain treatment? Because he's rich?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

jillinnj- if I make the specifics. I say Bill Gates of course has the right to treatment as he can pay. The homeless guy on the corner should get treatment and it should come from a *pool* that has been collected for such incidents. I know you will say that is the ACA but if so, it is not working well. I think the government could cut their spending in other areas and contribute that money to the help for the poor and indigent.


Why can't Mr. Gates pay into the same pool, and get treatment from that pool when needed? It would probably cost him less than it would to pay the full costs out of pocket if he were to get cancer. Why do the poor have to be treated differently when it comes to obtaining treatment for their health?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Why should Mr. Gates be more able to obtain treatment? Because he's rich?

One could argue yes. Hospitals and physicians are in the business of making money. If you can not pay your bill, how can they stay in business. I know you want government run hospitals and government placed doctors.....

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Why can't Mr. Gates pay into the same pool, and get treatment from that pool when needed?

Because Mr. Gates can afford the most top skilled surgeon on this planet. This top skilled surgeon would not make as much money working for a *pool* insurance plan.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Olychick

"Not more entitled but more able to obtain the treatment. Americans are
"entitled" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

If entitled to life, but not entitled to health care to preserve that life, what kind of right is that, really?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Where does it say that Government will perserve your life?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

It says Americans are entitled to the pursuit of happiness, it does not say the Government will pursue it for you.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Jill, Mr. Gates is able to obtain whatever his earnings and choices will offer him the ability to obtain, whether that be fancy housing, fancy transportation, fancy vacations, a big savings account, and whatever insurance policies he chooses.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Jill, let me take that one step further. I'm not entitled to Mr. Gates's earnings and wealth.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
False equivalency.
Where is this propaganda coming from? Who believes this cr*p?
This is a far right/ soulless , attempt to reason with the unreasonable.
Sick children, in need of medical care, our seniors living 200% below the FPL and are only going to become a greater percentage of our country as we age, has nothing to do with income.
I would venture to say Bill Gates who has been using his wealth to fight malaria around the world is not interested in how much money people make.
We are the richest country in the entire world! It is shameful to think this GOP want to defund over 20M of our most vulnerable, who have no voice and don't vote, for a "win" for Trump, so his base know something with "Obama" on it was repealed.
The entire world is watching and I am embarrassed the Republican Party has been hijacked by a bunch of soulless bigots and liars, all to get tax cuts for billionaires.
We will all suffer as everybody's insurance rates will increase and our most vulnerable are left without.
Not to mention increased risk of public health crises as the INH is defunded and our sickest and poorest go without routine and preventive care. All to get rid of something with the name Obama in it, as it was very distasteful to the far right "conservatives".
Very much like the AIDS crises in the 80s, when it was only a disease of gay men, who "chose" a certain lifestyle.
Not until it hit our mainstream population did the government become involved.
4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

The entire world is watching and I am embarrassed the Republican Party has been hijacked by a bunch of soulless bigots and liars, all to get tax cuts for billionaires.

I hate to break it to you but Trump was elected by the middle class. IF all that comes to fruition is a bunch of tax cuts for the billionaires, don't worry then, he will not get re-elected. I think you are just locked into reading your book "Dark Money".


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
I hope you have read it Margo, if you have and you agree, then you have definitely shown your true colors.
You may also agree with Breitbart financier and Trump's biggest backer, billionaire, Mercer, a fellow conspiracy theorist who says the equal rights bill was a mistake.
If you think Trump is doing anything for the middle class,you are mistaken. He and Sessions are carrying out the Kochs far right wing agenda of rolling back equal rights, consumer protections, voters rights, all under the guise of small government. What a crock.
Health care costs are about to rise for the middle class or just be repealed . The fact the stock market is up is great for those of us who have stock portfolios and 401ks, but middle class, identified as those making an average of around 76K / year are not seeing good paying jobs come back or savings increase.
I know our far right supporters agree with Sessions law and order anti legal immigration agenda. BUILD THE WALL, as Trump spewed on twitter attracted millions of followers. Bannon and Sessions knew who to speak to "the forgotten man" the ones who cry reverse racism, which is not a thing.
If you are not interested in discussing how the far right have hijacked the Republican Party and how many of us will never vote republican again, you have shown your true colors.
3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

"I know you want government run hospitals and government placed doctors....."

No one wants that , I am quite sure. That is not what we have here in Canada.

Your Medicare has way more government controls and limitations than our healthcare does...way more...but apparently seniors love it...go figure

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

"I'm not entitled to Mr. Gates's earnings and wealth"

Ann, of course you aren't however you don't mind using Gate's money to pay for what you think is important. It's just wrong when others want him to pay for what they think is important.

...and for the record Gates is supportive of universal healthcare

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

SandyC- you keep telling me I am a White Supremacist and a bigot etc, etc, You have already put me in my color box. I can tell you that you are wrong and you will never believe me. You live in your world. Like I told momj- believe what you want, you are not my maker.

SandyC.

The fact the stock market is up is great for those of us who have stock portfolios and 401ks, but middle class, identified as those making an average of around 76K / year are not seeing good paying jobs come back or savings increase.

By the way, I fall into that middle class bracket. Yet, we have stock portfolios and 401ks. You make it sound like middle class people can not have those things with your "great for us", " but, middle class....

Pffft!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Mr. Gates is able to obtain whatever his earnings and choices will offer him the ability to obtain, whether that be fancy housing, fancy transportation, fancy vacations, a big savings account, and whatever insurance policies he chooses.

We are talking about the right to treatments to save one's life. Let's leave housing, cars, vacations, etc etc out of the discussion please. Nobody is saying everyone deserves the same house, car, vacations that Mr Gates or anyone else has.

I am asking about the right to healthcare. Basic healthcare. Treatment for cancer. I'm not asking about what insurance policy he can afford to purchase. I'm asking about whether you think Mr Gates and the homeless guy on the corner deserve different treatment options for their cancer? I take it from your comments, your answer is yes. Is that accurate?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Well, you say "deserve", now that is something I can not answer. I do not know why the man is homeless. I do not know Mr Gates. You can not make such vague scenerios and then claim them as specifics. Specifics are specific. You are not specific enough.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

What difference does it make why the guy is homeless? Or whether you know Mr. Gates or not?

By specifics I meant taking 2 people, in different life situations, with the same disease. And by using Mr. Gates, I was using someone of enormous wealth, but it could be Joe with enormous wealth. I thought that was obvious.

Why can't you answer the questions? Knowing the people is not relevant to the question. Or is it that you don't want to?

Do 2 people, one enormously wealthy, the other without a dime, deserve the same basic treatment for their cancer?

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Margo don't put words in my mouth. Bannon and Sessions are white supremacists, along with Trump's financier Mercer.
Did you ever hear Bannon's interviews or read some of his and Gorka writings from Brietbart? They truly believe Islam is not a religion but an ideology.
Just like Hillary said, some Trump supporters were deplorable. You apparently are very offended by that. I don't know why. The kkk and white supremacists are deplorable. That is a fact. They have fervently supported Trump's nationalist cries of a stupid wall and Muslim ban. If you are a nationalist, why be offended? Why would you not stand up and support your fellow Americans, who are seeing Sessions systematic dismantling of gay rights , voter suppression, women rights to affordable healthcare, and transgender ban from the military spewed by Trump through a Tweet.
Sessions spent years in the senate introducing dozens of legal immigration bills. He was considered a far right wing outlier. This is his dream job.
You never explain why you support Trump, that's fine, you don't want to, that's your right, but silence , or even worse repeating Fox talking points by WH spineless pundits,and silly memes is getting tiresome.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Clearly Margo is saying she needs to judge their worthiness first. Simply being a human being doesn't make them worthy apparently.

8 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Margo I don't know how old you are, but the people that voted for Trump wanted jobs. What I mean is stock market prices are up, but for the middle class, the people who voted for Trump, that need student loans, car loans , short term interest rates are up. They are paying more for their loans, to get their kids through school, buy cars, etc. The middle class that voted for Trump have not seen an increase in jobs or wages in years. He promised jobs . So far not much has been dons and of course no factory jobs are coming back with automation we need more skilled workers.
There are 6 million job openings for skilled workers.
So if their stock portfolios may go up a bit, unfortunately interest rates are up on short term money. Long term interest on savings accounts is not going up.
Trump promised huge corporate tax cuts to 15%, something every other recent president has tried.
Today it was leaked Bannon want the wealthy to pay more tax, 44% up from our 39%.
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

OY- leave it to you guys to twist things all around. That is what you do.

Why is the guy even homeless if we are all to be treated equal? You can not pick and choose your specifics. Life is not fair.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Sandy- you keep telling us these scenerios who voted for Trump. We are not all in your box. You think just a certain type of person voted for Trump but you are wrong.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Today it was leaked Bannon want the wealthy to pay more tax, 44% up from our 39%.

Sandy, then this should make you happy right?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo


VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Clearly Margo is saying she needs to judge their worthiness first. Simply being a human being doesn't make them worthy apparently.

Clearly, you have no idea about me at all. Talk about judging??

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Margo, if that weren't the case the answer would have been yes, they both deserve care by virtue of them both being human beings. It doesn't depend in why he's homeless. It's not a trick question- it's really that simple.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

No, it is not that simple. It is never that simple. It is easy to say but not so easy to do.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Veda- my point is, does everyone *deserve* a fancy house? a fancy car? lavish vacations? Maybe to go so far as doesn't everyone *deserve* a mother and a father? You just can not just pick one thing such as healthcare and say that is deserved.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

I can. And I pick healthcare. And clean air and clean water.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

I believe healthcare should be a basic right, Margo. I believe our entire society would benefit if it was.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

OK then cattyles- then why don't you start with bringing that homeless man in your house and take care of him. Give him some clean water and air. Help pay for his cancer treatment. Do it without the government.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

I believe healthcare should be a basic right, Margo.

Basic right from who?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Oh come on, Margo, you aren't that daft.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Children do not have a choice. This is going no where
A person who refuses to answer questions, and repeats ridiculous talking points from the far right , is not an excuse for the richest country in the world and the only western country without healthcare as a right. If we are unable to care for our sick and most vulnerable , our seniors living 200% below the federal poverty level it is shameful and casts a bright light on this administration.
Trump is a liar, who promised his base, many who are about to have their healthcare repealed, they would see better and cheaper healthcare.
Apparently his supporters don't care if they pay more or lose healthcare, and all,consumer protections of the ACA, as long as healthcare with the name Obama is repealed.
I thought some how a discourse about sick babies, children and seniors would appeal to the far right soulless republicans, put apparently it does not. Apparently billionaires are held in very high esteem by Trump supporters, sick babies and seniors should just get a job.
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Oh come on, Margo, you aren't that daft.

Well, say it then, You want the government to take care of everything. We all do not think that way.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

This is going no where
A person who refuses to answer questions, and repeats ridiculous talking points

You are talking about yourself Sandy. You have not answered any of the questions I have asked of you and you keep repeating your same mantra.

I guess when the questions do not want to be answered it is going nowhere lol.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
There but for the grace of God, go I.
3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

I will ask you again Sandy. How do you feel about this. This should make you happy right?

Today it was leaked Bannon want the wealthy to pay more tax, 44% up from our 39%.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

There but for the grace of God, go I.

Repeats. Do you pull these from a list of go to's when the going gets tough?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Margo , tell us again how do you get your health insurance?
Shame on me for thinking you cared about the incredibly complicated subject of healthcare, or were interested in a civil discourse, about a sixth of our economy that is about to be repealed, all for billionaires tax cuts.
Not to mention all of our healthcare costs will skyrocket once 20 million are without insurance.
It is about to be repealed to satisfy a president for a win for his base who are about to lose their healthcare, the GOP states that voted for him, where opioid addiction and unemployment is the highest.Sad.
5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

Why do you assume I haven't taken anyone into my home that needed help? As for clean air and water, I do my part for that, too, with my taxes, my votes, my voice and my actions.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Margo, I've already stretched out my "breaktime" and need to get back to work but want to point out that even letting the homeless man die on the street would cost taxpayers money (unless you favor letting him rot in place,) by way of police response (I think we would agree that their time could be better spent responding to actual crime calls,) the coroners office, cremation and disposal (if not claimed) would all be at taxpayers expense. Its not a matter of IF taxpayer dollars are spent, just how they are. I'd rather see it spent on healthcare, which might help turn some of the homeless into productive tax paying members of society.

ETA: a link to the costs to taxpayers due to the homeless, if you don't like that link there are many many more articles with stats.

http://www.greendoors.org/facts/cost.php

https://www.usich.gov/resources/uploads/asset_library/Ending_Chronic_Homelessness_in_2017.pdf


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ann_t

Here in BC at the moment our premium is $150 a month which covers us both. In the new year it will drop down to $75 a month for us both and the premiums are expected to be phased out over the next four years. And has Chase as mentioned above, it covers "Full medical coverage including diagnostic tests and routine tests such
as mamos, no deductibles, no co-pays, no limits, no restrictions on
doctors or specialists."

You are never invoiced nor do you ever see an invoice.

I've mentioned before and I'll mention again. The main difference between Americans and Canadians is that Canadians are happy to pay their fair share of taxes so that everyone is entitled to the same medical care.

Some Americans not all, but way too many, do not want their tax dollars covering health care for those less fortunate than themselves. They value human life based on a person's income. And a good percentage of Americans that believe this consider themselves to be good Christians. How sad is that.

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

It is enough to make me want to cry, ann_t. For two of us, we pay close to $2000 per month, plus co-pays.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Margo - I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Please correct anything that is wrong -

You're saying that we are not all equal in how fortunate we've been/how much money we have and therefore we are not equal in our right to access healthcare to keep us alive.

Do I have that right?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

Really I do. I just do not think it is even fair for 26 year olds to pay for someone elses healthcare. Not mine, not yours, not anyone. I guess I just can not wrap my head around this whole socialist mind set. Life is not fair.

But, that 26 year old might need you to help pay for his broken body if he get in an accident, that 26 year old might need you to help pay for his girlfriends maternity costs,or a child born with a deformity. That 26 year old might like you to pay so his mother can survive breast cancer or he may need care for his own cancer diagnosis.

I think it is the height of selfishness to pick and choose what you are willing to pay for and not. The point of universal health care is that everyone is going to need some sort of care at some point, both young and old. We do not have a crystal ball that will tell us what type of care we will need or when, so why not pay into a system that protects all ? I sleep well at night knowing my loved ones and friends will be cared for no matter what life sends them. I would say it is a good bang for my buck.


5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

I think it is the height of selfishness to pick and choose what you are willing to pay for and not.

My point exactly- you are wanting to pick and choose what you feel is deserved.

How about education? How about housing? How about transportation?

I think you all are OK in those catagories and you all are just looking for a cheap form of healthcare for YOURSELVES.




1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

And if we tell you otherwise, Margo, you don't believe us. Weren't you complaining about being judged?

Clearly, you have no idea about me at all. Talk about judging??

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

" and you all are just looking for a cheap form of healthcare for YOURSELVES."

I have paid for my healthcare for over 30 years. Believe me, it is not myself that I'm in this for.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

Sometimes you just hit the nail on the head.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

Margo, I really am sorry you can't see the nuances, the grey shades, of what we are discussing. That is, if you are really trying to see them.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Do 2 people, one enormously wealthy, the other without a dime, deserve the same basic treatment for their cancer?

I cannot answer the question based on the word "deserve". Did my nine year old granddaughter "deserve" her type 1 diabetes diagnosis? My answer to that would be no, but she now lives with 5 shots a day and pricking her finger for blood tests more often than that. So no, she didn't deserve it but because of it she's becoming an even more amazing person than she was - tough, empathetic, brave, sensible and all the other qualities it takes for her to not let her health own her but to live a happy life despite her health concerns. So, if two people get cancer and one can afford the designer drugs and the other can't, it's kind of the same thing - it is what it is. Life isn't "fair" by any means and her situation is a perfect example of that.

Let's talk about the homeless guy for a minute. I have a family member who had a grown son that didn't work, drank way too much, used drugs and ended up in jail several times for a stretch of days or weeks each time. Several times, his parents paid for him to go to rehab/counseling centers (really nice ones) for alcohol and drug dependency. Each time he returned to his bad habits once released. He'd call them often and ask for money to help him get out of a jam or get a vehicle to get to a supposed new job, etc. They often helped him financially but finally didn't believe he was even trying to "save" himself and gave him some financial help, but less. In his early 50s, he was found in the backyard of one of his acquaintances, dead - likely a drug or alcohol overdose. It was a super sad situation, but he was an example of an able bodied person who never even gave himself a chance in life. So, let's say this guy got cancer prior to his death and showed up in an emergency room. Should everyone's tax dollars pay enormous amounts of money (let's say he needed some of those designer cancer drugs that are thousands per dose) to keep this man alive so he can then go drink himself to death. I don't know......

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Basic right from who?

Exactly Margo.


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

According to my SIL, an ER nurse, Emergency rooms don't administer cancer drugs/ treatments- they treat the emergency situation (which taxpayers currently pay for, by law the ER must treat regardles of ability to pay,) and refer out for oncology to diagnose, prescribe and administer cancer treatments (which would depend in what kind of coverage they had, if any, Whether they would receive any kind of treatment. )

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Good point VedaBeeps and this guy didn't have cancer. But, if one of his many visits to the emergency room would have uncovered a cancer diagnosis, should single payer healthcare (wanted by so many liberals) pay for the referral to oncology and the subsequent (and possibly very expensive) treatment?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

Yes. Emphatically, yes. Yes, Ann. Yes, Margo. Yes, yes, yes. EVERYONE is entitled to healthcare. Including your adorable granddaughter and "POS" alcoholic relative. EVERYONE GD EVERYONE. YES.

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Ann,

Depending on which stats you look at, homeless/those without the ability to pay cost taxpayers $30.000 to $45,000 EACH homeless indivdual per year, mostly due to medical costs. (The price varied by city.) So, you're paying anyhow but not being homeless and getting preventative care has shown to reduce that amount to around $10,000 each

its actually more fiscally responsible to make sure everyone has preventative care!

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Charlie Gard?

This question was for cattyles.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
azmom

Ann, Your little granddaughter is amazing! Wish her the best!

Could anyone tell us if Ann's granddaughter would be viewed as having "pre-existing condition"? Will she be well covered by any health care plan regardless?

ETA:

"Did my nine year old granddaughter "deserve" her type 1 diabetes diagnosis? My answer to that would be no, but she now lives with 5 shots a day and pricking her finger for blood tests more often than that. ...."

May be we have different interpretation of "deserve". In my book, if you think your granddaughter does not deserve the treatment, why do your families provide her that? You should let her suffer or die young.

In my book, everyone deserves health/medical care at least at the same level as what I receive. Social, economic, racial, educational, cultural background /status have no bearing in deciding who should get care. In my book, your granddaughter deserves the best treatment regardless.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Developing type 1 diabetes (not deserved) is not the same as deserving access to healthcare.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ann_t

"Good point VedaBeeps and this guy didn't have cancer. But, if one of
his many visits to the emergency room would have uncovered a cancer
diagnosis, should single payer healthcare (wanted by so many liberals)
pay for the referral to oncology and the subsequent (and possibly very
expensive) treatment?"

Yes of course. Why would you even ask that question?

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Veda, that's assuming the bulk of the homeless population would even show up for preventative care. I certainly question that.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

I'll easily ask that question ann_t. That's precisely the kinds of decisions made by government entities that run healthcare. Who to treat and for what, what kind of "pain" warrants a knee or hip replacement or disk surgery and how long the wait will be.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

Charlie Gard received the very best of healthcare. I have no more to say about Charlie Gard and will ignore your provocations on that subject.

The answer is still yes. Every flipping person should have access to healthcare. Yes.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Ann, My area has some very active shelters that offer free clinics (health screenings and basic care, hair cuts, dental, etc. There are even kennels for their animals while they get care- and the animals get care!) and they're packed so I do think many would. The biggest problem we have is that other cities dump their homeless here because we have more services than they offer. And because the beach cities don't want tourists to have to look at homeless. This city was the first large city in the country to acheive Functional Zero homelessness for Vets.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"Veda, that's assuming the bulk of the homeless population would even show up for preventative care. I certainly question that."

I believe that if people had access to healthcare at no great charge that you'd see some homeless people get the care they need (assuming they could get transportation to it) and sometimes that care might just turn them around.

Many people don't choose to be homeless but become homeless due to unfortunate circumstances. Giving them a way to get help for one of their problems (perhaps an infected toe that is preventing them from getting a job) might be just the ticket. Or the care they need might be mental health counseling, alcohol addiction. Once a person becomes homeless it can be very hard to rise up out of it. Access to healthcare might do it.

ETA: I just saw Veda's post above mine. Perfect!

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

"That's precisely the kinds of decisions made by government entities
that run healthcare. Who to treat and for what, what kind of "pain"
warrants a knee or hip replacement or disk surgery and how long the wait
will be.'

You have no idea what you are talking about...none. However there is zero point in engaging with someone who talks from ignorance rather than knowledge

8 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

You have no idea what you are talking about...none. However there is zero point in engaging with someone who talks from ignorance rather than knowledge

Then why did you engage? Such superiority is shown by some.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Ann, here's a local success story. All this guy needed was a hand up. A few updates have been done and he's doing great- once again a contributing member of our community.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.pe.com/2017/01/16/riverside-homeless-trumpeter-leaves-his-riverbed-camp/amp/


Have a good night. My boss (me) is a real harda$$ and I have to get back to work!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Chase, I'm not a Canadian citizen but my husband has a first cousin who is a dual citizen. She grew up in the US but has lived in Canada (British Columbia) for about 40 years. She has come to the US for multiple surgeries of the type I mentioned because her wait would have been years in Canada. She says she was in a quite significant level of pain.

Chase, feel free to not engage with me. Some of the frustrations you shared about engaging with me are identical to the frustrations I feel when engaging with you. You make statements with a lot of authority and based on that, I used to think you knew what you were talking about and were accurate with your comments. Over time, I've learned that is far from the situation. It's taught me to investigate for accuracy when it comes to your comments. I'd be happy to skip all of this with you and think not engaging with one another could be beneficial to both of us.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

One data point = valid conclusion.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

Good point VedaBeeps and this guy didn't have cancer. But, if one of his many visits to the emergency room would have uncovered a cancer diagnosis, should single payer healthcare (wanted by so many liberals) pay for the referral to oncology and the subsequent (and possibly very expensive) treatment?

Yes, yes yes, no judgement just care.


I'll easily ask that question ann_t. That's precisely the kinds of decisions made by government entities that run healthcare. Who to treat and for what, what kind of "pain" warrants a knee or hip replacement or disk surgery and how long the wait will be.

Where do you get your info on government run health care?

The only people involved in the decision of who get treated for what, and what kind of pain warrants a knee of hip replacement is the person and their doctor. The very idea that somehow the government has the resources and time to control these issues is ludicrous. My mom had two hip surgeries, not once did Justin call up and give his opinion, or any other political person.

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

This if a very different situation than what we experience in the US.

http://www.news1130.com/2017/03/28/wait-times-priority-medical-procedures-growing-bc/

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
I would suggest to ignore some here, who bait with the same cr* p each time. There have been many threads on healthcare over the past year.
Make no mistake the far right nationalists, who support Trump and Bannon, want to repeal healthcare, probably SS and Medicare too. But they are fortunate. They have healthcare.
The same lame anecdotal stories out of stubbornness and ignorance. There is no reasoning with people that had to endure 8 loooooong years with a black president and are on track to repeal all his accomplishments. One ,that ensured 30M poor people now haveaffordable insurance for the first time.
Obamacare , to most , unless they are making under or just above the FPL did not affect them. Sure prices went up, so what , healthcare is expensive, especially as our country ages. It always did, it always will.
Prices are never coming down to what they were 10 years ago, when you could buy a crappy, no coverage plan for $100/ month and be kicked off or denied coverage at the whim of an insurance company.
7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Jmc101

Tonight McCain came through.

let's hope that his statement of "returning to regular order" holds both in Congress and here. It is time for compromise, both among legislators AND US citizens..

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

No, the time for compromise and making revisions together was in January. The Republicans are still not interested in working with anyone else--they just want a few more "yes" votes. They are just going to decide what tiniest scrap will be possible to toss out there to get those few votes--nothing more. And maybe not even that.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
azmom

Ann, Looking at the link you cited proved again that you are good at picking one normal condition and making it as a big fallacy to back up your assumption.

Don't tell us you do not know everyone has to wait for your turn even in an emergency room. My friend waited for 8 months to use a great surgeon in Phoenix for her knee surgery but thought it is well worth it. My husband had to wait to get appointments with Mayo Clinic, the longest one took 2 months. Recently I had to wait for 3 days to see my regular physician, we all have insurances through employers.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Ann, please feel free to ignore my posts. I completely understand that, there are several posters here that I do that with. However, I will reserve the right to comment on the contents of your posts if I feel a comment is warranted.......which is different than "engaging "you

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

I was out on sick leave for most of May while 2 Internal Med docs tried to figure out what was wrong with me. They got my symptoms under control but I need to see a Rheumatologist. With an Internist's urgent referral and as an upper management employee in the same health system as the rheumatologists, the earliest appointment I could get was late September with a spot far down on the wait list of patients to contact in case of a cancellation. People wait for care every day in the US.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

People all over the US are waking up with a sigh of relief this morning. Thank you, John McCain, for trying to bring a little sanity back to the Senate. It's time to do things right.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

We can't thank MCCain without recognizing the women, Murkowski and Collins who were the original holdouts.....

9 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

Absolutely, but John McCain's reason was particularly compelling.

McCain killed his party's narrowly-crafted Obamacare repeal bill Friday not because he was opposed to dismantling the Affordable Care Act, but because he fundamentally believed the process -- the lack of hearings, the one-party, closed-door negotiations, the fact that in the end all that Republican senators could agree upon was a shell of the plan they'd promised -- was flawed.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ann_t

"People wait for care every day in the US."

And then they are billed. Large premiums and large deductbles. If Cattyles experience had been in Canada it would have been free.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

McCain walks up and votes NO!

https://youtu.be/iNwLDj6D520

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

I have always admitted that there wait times for some non life threatening conditions.

I have always said our system is good but it ain't perfect.

I have often said that as, the population ages, I can see us going to some sort of tiered system.

It may be true that one may have to wait 3 or more months for a knee replacement BUT that is certainly better than living with the pain your entire life because you can't afford the insurance or the procedure.

There is a reason that in 2015 ( latest data I could find) Canada ranked 12th in the world in life expectancy and the US ranked 31st



6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

I know a woman on Twitter that drives a cab in Texas and she was against ACA. She admitted every Canadian she ever had as a passenger liked their healthcare.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Ann - Thank you for answering my questions.

I am very sorry about your granddaughter. I truly hope a cure for diabetes is found soon. It's an awful disease that I wish nobody had to endure, especially children. Of course she didn't deserve this disease. Nobody NOBODY deserves any disease. You're misinterpreting what I mean by deserve. Intentional?

What if her parents could not afford to pay for her medication and could not afford insurance? Yes, you would help. But what if you weren't there and there was nobody to help financially? Should she die because her parents are poor?

And, I'm sorry about your relative that died. My answer is if he got cancer he is just as entitled, yes entitled, to treatment as any wealthy person is.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Margo - it doesn't go unnoticed that you would not answer the question. It's very simple. A yes or no is all I'm asking for. Here it is again in case you missed it.

You're saying that we are not all equal in how fortunate we've been/how much money we have and therefore we are not equal in our right to access healthcare to keep us alive.

Do I have that right?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

In my mind, she answered with her two examples. Even though she didn't come right out and say it.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

jillinnj- I have answered your questions.

I do not believe the government should be in the healthcare business.

Do you have a solution to providing everyone equal healthcare without the government?





2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Many of us answered and discussed in our own ways, including Margo. What doesn't go unnoticed is goading and odd demanding that someone answer a question in the way someone thinks it should be answered. There is a lot of that goading going around on Houzz these days.

Hey, Obamacare remains the law of the land for now. Are the liberals thrilled? We can now live with it and watch it in all its glory. I hope more than one Republican Senator is replaced in the voting process at the earliest opportunity.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Single payer doesn't put the government in the healthcare business. It puts government in the insurance business.

The medical system remains totally private and the government acts as the insurer. There is a huge difference.

9 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

ann- did you read the article? don't tell me no one in the US waits for care, a few posters just gave you examples of that.

For diagnostics and cancer care, CIHI finds 91 per cent of British Columbians who need radiation treatment are getting it within the benchmark 28 days, but that is down from 94 per cent five years ago.

It still looks like pretty good numbers to me, there will be some glitches and problems in any medical system. Please note that these cancer patients will not pay a cent, will not loose their savings, or their homes. Far better than the poor soul who gets no treatment because he cannot afford it.


CIHI hasjust released its annual report on wait times for specific priority procedures across the country and found a majority of Canadians are being seen within reasonable time-frames, but there can often be a wide variation from one province to another.


Having had a father with bone cancer, a son who contracted lymphoma at 27 ( with two tiny children) a son in law who had colon cancer and did not survive, I can tell you that when it is needed the wait time becomes negligible. Examined one day, diagnostics that same day, biopsy by three days later, surgery as soon as the results are in and wait time for chemo was 1 day. Pretty good numbers, and for every story you have citing long wait times I can respond with 10 showing no wait time. I live here, I see it all the time.


Yes, there are areas and problems we need to make better in our system. Years for your first cousins surgery ( not knowing the case) could be for many reasons. Hip, knee replacements and cataract surgeries when they are none emergent sometimes take longer, but these things can be worked on and fixed. No need to throw out the whole system because of a few problems.


Instead of worrying that, heaven forbid, your tax dollars will be spent on health care for a person that you have decided is not worthy, or beneath contempt, maybe it would be better if you said to yourself, thank goodness, I am living in a society with a health care system that protects me and my loved ones when it is our turn.

9 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catspa_zone9sunset14

That's precisely the kinds of decisions made by government entities that run healthcare. Who to treat and for what, what kind of "pain" warrants a knee or hip replacement or disk surgery and how long the wait will be.

Actually, that's the kind of decision made by insurance companies, too. My HMO is a very good one and provides great healthcare, but I only got surgery for a long-term condition when it got bad enough to severely affect day-to-day life (when I could no longer stand for more than an hour a day and had to spend the rest of the day immobile) and, even so, I had to wait more than four months for my surgeon and an operating room to be available. I didn't see this as unreasonable: resources are not infinite (especially surgeons -- as a biology instructor, my observation is that only a few in any given population are capable of this kind of work, even if education were adequately funded) and my condition was not an emergency.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

The waits discussed in the US are primarily due to waiting for a particular doc in a particular city. My husband has required 4 spine surgeries in his life and each time various docs were considered. Some were pretty busy and had longer waits than others, but in each case, other doc choices were available. Depending on his pain level, sometimes he waited for a particular doc and other times, he found another doc with good reviews and a more open schedule. That's an entirely different situation!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Certainly, the number of docs to choose from becomes more limited based on the insurance one has chosen. HMOs will limit docs more than PPOs, for example. Don't jump down my throat if I reversed that as we've stuck with the same choice for several years and it's been a few years since I reviewed the comparison chart.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

working in the world I do, I will tell you Ann, the healthcare crisis and subsequent governmental influence is really going to narrow down the choice of doctors. They're retiring and quitting left and right. One of the researchers who shares the lab where I am is German. He's here because he hated being treated and paid like a "government worker" there. Wonder how long it will take him to leave? I can see it coming for him for certain. Another? He's 67. Retiring soon? Yep. We're hoping 5 more years, at least. My point? There are down the line effects too. Paying less will only get you less in this instance. We're not going to get out of paying for our aging population, but if we do, there will be dire consequences.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

I remember when OBama put forth a plan to educate more General Practioners. There are benefits and options if the politicians want to explore them. They can either work to make ACA better or work to kill it. So far the GOP is doing all they can to kill it..

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

I think a lot fewer people are choosing to become doctors. We have several docs in our family (nearing retirement) and, since Obamacare "rules", they say they spend so much time dealing with paperwork type regulations, they feel they have little time to do what they chose as a career (treat and concentrate on patients). They now live in a world of government red tape and experience tremendous frustration as a result.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

So far the GOP is doing all they can to kill it..

Oh, no they aren't, much to my dismay!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

" they spend so much time dealing with paperwork type regulations"

Single payer would simplify that quite a bit. Let doctors get back to being doctors. Save on administrative costs. Go digital so more sharing of records can be done (I know there is some now), further reducing costs.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catspa_zone9sunset14

My mother's doctor in the past mostly expressed frustration with having to deal with her insurer denying authorization or payments for her treatments, which then had him spending considerable time on the phone with the insurer arguing to get her the treatment she needed.

ETA, I was also going to say that single payer would probably simplify paperwork considerably: one payer, not a bunch of insurers unwilling to pay on principle.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

My son has said he's wanted to be in genetics, since he was 2. He's never changed his mind. Not once. I wasn't even in the field until he was four or five, so I have no idea how he came to that conclusion. He decided, about five years ago, he was never going to be an MD. He's going for PhD after university (he's a high school senior). So yes, for us, my son refuses to be an MD, but Obamacare had nothing to do with it. He's smarter than to base his entire life on some dumb governmental decisions that are creating a better healthcare system for the US, and which will change many times before he finishes his career.

.

The system must evolve, and it will. I hope the requirement to "work with Democrats" will finally make it so that they will get down to the business of making it all work without killing off and uninsuring millions of their fellow Americans.

.

McCain said:

"I've stated time and time again that one of the major failures of
Obamacare was that it was rammed through Congress by Democrats on a
strict-party line basis without a single Republican vote," McCain said
in a statement. "We must now return to the correct way of legislating
and send the bill back to committee, hold hearings, receive input from
both sides of aisle, heed the recommendations of nation's governors, and
produce a bill that finally delivers affordable health care for the
American people. We must do the hard work our citizens expect of us and
deserve."

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ann_t

"That's precisely the kinds of decisions made by government entities that run healthcare. Who to treat and for what, what kind of "pain" warrants a knee or hip replacement or disk surgery and how long the wait will be."

Ann, you really do need to stop posting about things that you know nothing about. You continue to show your ignorance. Educate yourself for a change and use a different source than Fox or who ever else you are using because they aren't doing you any favours. They are making you look stupid and I'm sure that isn't what you want.

How many times do you have to be told that the government does not get involved in a persons health care?

You and your doctor decide what your health care needs are. The government does not oversee your health, nor do they decide who is worthy of a knee or hip replacement or cancer treatment, or acne, valve replacement, cataract surgery or anything else.


6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

"I was also going to say that single payer would probably simplify
paperwork considerably: one payer, not a bunch of insurers unwilling to
pay on principle."

That's exactly true catspat. Paperwork for the doctors is greatly reduced under single payer. The send one bill a month to the to the OHIP offices. Of course they still send out bills to patients for things not covered by OHIP but the patient pays them and then the patient deals with their insurance company.

ETA: Employers like single payer as well. It takes the costs of them providing full coverage healthcare to their employees and all the process overhead that entails. Employers with more than 100 employees pay a payroll tax that is much less than what it would costs to pay the health insurance for their employees. As a matter of fact, a factor in Ford Motor Company's decision to build a plant here a few years back was becasue of their savings on employee health insurance.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Murkowski's term is through 2022

Collins' term is through 2020

McCain's term is through 2022 (but we all know health may open his seat sooner)

Of course, there are many Dem Senator seats facing election next year. 25 (technically 2 are independents who caucus with Dems).

Republican seats facing election next year: 8


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

After 7 years of promises and control of the Legislative Branch and the Executive, the Republicans could not come to a deal among themselves. So now they have to figure out a way to blame the Dems......it isn't going to fly with the American people.

Don't forget most Americans actually want to keep the ACA and fix it.

I think Collins and Murkowski will be just fine by the time their terms are up....those other 8 may be a tad nervous. How I would love to see this blow up in their face to the point control of the Senate goes back to the Dems....won't take much

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

jillinnj- I have answered your questions.

I do not believe the government should be in the healthcare business.

I do not see an answer to my question that I repeated above. Ann kind of answered with examples and I thanked her for that. I don't see any answer from you to my question.

I didn't ask if government should be in the health care business.

I asked if those 2 theoretical people deserve the same access to treatment for their illness.

It only requires a simple yes or no.

And, I'm not goading, nor am I demanding an answer. If you don't want to answer, fine, just say so. Asking the question again when it was not addressed is not goading nor demanding.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

We have several docs in our family (nearing retirement) and, since Obamacare "rules", they say they spend so much time dealing with paperwork type regulations, they feel they have little time to do what they chose as a career (treat and concentrate on patients). They now live in a world of government red tape and experience tremendous frustration as a result.

I too have several docs in the family. They have been drowned in paper work for a very long time. Long before the ACA. The insurance companies looooove to make it as hard as possible in the hopes the doc or the patient will just give up.

Single payer eliminates much of that. So once again, your arguments make no sense.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ann_t

"Margo - it doesn't go unnoticed that you would not answer the question. It's very simple. A yes or no is all I'm asking for. Here it is again in case you missed it.

You're saying that we are not all equal in how fortunate we've been/how much money we have and therefore we are not equal in our right to access healthcare to keep us alive.

Do I have that right?"

Jill, yes you have it right. That is exactly what she is believes. The fact that she won't answer is answer enough.



Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

"I've stated time and time again that one of the major failures of
Obamacare was that it was rammed through Congress by Democrats on a
strict-party line basis without a single Republican vote," McCain said
in a statement. "We must now return to the correct way of legislating
and send the bill back to committee, hold hearings, receive input from
both sides of aisle, heed the recommendations of nation's governors, and
produce a bill that finally delivers affordable health care for the
American people. We must do the hard work our citizens expect of us and
deserve."

Oh, geez. Obamacare was in the works for a very long time. If the GOP had any suggestions to improve it, they had their chance. But, no, all they did was say NO. NO NO NO NO NO. We can't have legislation that helps the American people that has the black guy's name on it. If it still had Romney's name on it, it would have been a beautiful thing and they would have loved it.

I do give him credit for voting NO this time because taking healthcare away from millions to line the pockets of the wealthy is wrong. Good for him. And good for him for saying it's time to work together to improve it.

But, please don't try to fool us into thinking you tried to have a say 7 years ago. You didn't.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

No one is blaming Democrats for the miserable failure of the Republican Senators. Everyone that thinks ACA is a failure is blaming Democrats for ACA, as well they should. Those that think ACA is a success should be super happy today. You still have it.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Jill, if your question wasn't answered in the way you thought it should be, it's because it was ignored, someone didn't think it a worthwhile question or they didn't feel like answering for whatever reason they chose. No need to keep asking since your question is no more important than anyone else's choice to answer or not or to answer in any way they darn well please.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Interestingly only between 25 - 35 % depending on which polls you look at favour the House Bill over the ACA. The majority of Americans prefer the ACA be kept and improved.

Glad the majority of Americans were served last night...hopefully the two sides will come together to deliver the needed changes

Once again trump supporters find them selves in the minority in the US

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
finn flanman

McCain has the last laugh.

John Fugelsang

✔@JohnFugelsang

John McCain likes presidents who don't get caught without a real healthcare plan.#failurefriday

8:22 AM - Jul 28, 2017


4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

So many of you have mentioned the benefits of single payer. Yet, no one has yet to discuss California's recent attempt to introduce it. I think that might be interesting to discuss, especially with those from California that likely know the most about the topic. I think California decided they couldn't afford its high cost. Is that true?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
rob333 (zone 7a)

Ann, This one is for you. Obamacare isn't a disaster. Nor is it perfect. Here is a summary of all of the good, and the bad.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Rob, America has had Obamacare for enough years now that real life opinions have formed, pro and con. I don't particularly care what someone's opinion report card is. In my opinion, I think it's been terrible and a huge reason Trump was elected. True, the support of Obamacare has improved but it still remains quite unpopular with many and we'll see how that support goes as even more insurers drop out. Also, the budget process is always around the corner and our national debt is huge. The financial cost of sustaining and applying band aids to Obamacare will certainly become an important topic now. That financial impact piece has been largely ignored of late but, now that Obamacare will carry on, that topic will come back to light. I'll be watching Obamacare move forward and also watching the Dem single payer plans - including their financial ramifications - assuming they even have such a plan (I've heard Bernie is about to introduce one and another one was voted on in recent days - receiving no Dem yes votes).

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catspa_zone9sunset14

I think California decided they couldn't afford its high cost. Is that true?

No. There were many factors involved in shelving it for this year, only one of which was figuring out how to finance it. Probably a larger factor was the unsettled national healthcare landscape; state law needs to be considered within context of federal law -- whatever that is. Also, it is complex issue -- this year's shelved law just a start on figuring out what a final single-payer system should look like here.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catspa_zone9sunset14

Concern about cost should make single-payer a no-brainer: every other developed nation pays far less for health care than the U.S.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

catspat, you make an excellent point . The uncertainty of how health care will look at a federal level is huge factor in why there is so much uncertainty in the insurance industry and the Exchanges.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

catspat, not only are your healthcare costs much higher than any other western nation....your life spans are shorter.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Lynn, yes, regarding Obamacare, my mind is made up. I think it's a mess!

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

My single daughter will not be able to afford insurance without the ACA. Instead of 300 a month she will pay over 800 a month just for herself. That is impossible with her wages. She already has one of the more minimal plans with high deductibles.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ann_t

"ANN: Lynn, yes, regarding Obamacare, my mind is made up. I think it's a mess!"

That is your problem. "You think" But you don't know what you are talking about.

Ann keeps defending Margo's non answer, which is because she believes the same thing that Margo believes.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

Ann, what did you think of the plans that the Senate voted on these last 2 days? Good solutions?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Please ignore the baiting. The single payer was brought up by Mrsk, and the Trump far right wingers are all over it on another thread. The republicans have the majority in all houses!
This is just a diversion, must be on Fox " news" like the IT guy charged with applying for a home equity loan on a non owner occupied house. Hannity, Trump and Scaramucci had a dinner, Wednesday night at the WH.
They need to get their propaganda straight. This is feeling more and more like a third world dictatorship, where the minions don't have access to information and believe everything spewed on state run tv.
The questions should be ignored as it is just baiting. This has been going on for a year and if people are uanable to recall past discussions or are just that un inquisitive to do some reading of reports by experts in the health field it is impossible to have a civil discourse with those who want repeal and no replacement.
Make no mistake healthcare is a complicated subject. Our population is aging just like Canada and until we realize most people healthcare expenses are used in the last years of life, we will not get anywhere. Young people need to be in the risk pools to bring down costs.
2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Lynn, did you read the article Rob linked? Let me know which fact in that article is strong enough that you think it should change my mind about Obamacare being a mess? I didn't think it was either a positive opinion piece (citing both pros and cons) about Obamacare or contained facts that would change anyone's mind.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Sandy, back to your same rhetoric as last night. Posters on this thread are actually talking (and that doesn't mean they need to agree). Why are you stepping into every thread with an agenda to halt all conversation? That makes no sense at all. But, regardless, I don't imagine anyone is paying attention to your strange and repeated statements to ignore comments. Don't you think each person is perfectly capable of choosing for themselves which comments they want to ignore or not?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Interesting commentary I just heard.......

Many, many Republican Senators were dead set against "skinny repeal" as it nothing to help healthcare . It was strictly a political document throwing the hot potato back .

Evidently, John McCain let it be known to those Senators that didn't want to vote for this bill but said the political blowback would be to severe in their very red Trump States that he would be voting no...thus giving them cover.

Good for McCain, good for the Republican Party but it's too bad that the politics are so bad that Senators are willing to vote for something they no is bad than take the political heat.

Also too bad some are so focused on getting rid of the ACA they really don't care what that might mean to their fellow Americans.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Sunflower, I think the skinny bill was nothing more than a fairly worthless skinny shell. But, I wanted the process to continue to committee, which Ryan did agree to. I was still hopeful that committee would turn it into a real bill. I am profoundly annoyed at the Senate Republicans.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

Ok, Ann, understand your point on the skinny bill. Were the other two workable solutions for you? (I think they voted on 3 total?)

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
The republicans called it a dead cat on their doorstep. Nobody wanted to be responsible for it( except Ryan of course). They are happy to get rid of it and move on.
The far right were brainwashed for years Obamacare was a disaster , but really what they mean is they don't want poor people to get "entitlements" . Please read up thread comments.
The ACA is not in a death spiral, but will be if the republicans refuse to continue as the law was meant to work. Enforcing mandates and of course working on lowering prices of
drugs .
When we hear the rhetoric of prices skyrocketing those are not the ACA prices. They are for people in the open market like I am where we own a business and buy our own insurance.
My insurance has always been expensive, it's the cost of being self employed. If we made less money we would qualify for Obamacare subsidies.
We always bought our insurance and just had major medical, now we have the consumer protections of the ACA.
We are a very small portion of the market about 6%.
These are the people screaming their cost were skyrocketing. We need more young people in the risk pools, which is where the system is failing.
The people actually on Obamacare are getting affordable insurance , the way it was meant to work according to their income.Instead of flooding our ERs with undiagnosed and acute conditions, they are now able to receive preventative care.
Often people on the ACA are not on it for long, just until they get established in their careers and can buy insurance on the open market.
Medicaid which we have always had is for the most vulnerable, our seniors and children living well below the FPL, seniors 200% below the FPL! This problem is not going away, as our population ages.
Employers are getting huge subsidies to offer health insurance, so 50% of the country are doing just fine.
So anybody that says the ACA is coming them through their taxes is incorrect. They are getting a huge benefit rom the ACA, through a low cost group plan, through their employer.
The GOP have scapegoated poor people who are benefiting from the ACA, in order to appeal to their far right base, to get huge tax cuts for their billionaire backers.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

Ann

Many of us answered and discussed in our own ways, including Margo. What doesn't go unnoticed is goading and odd demanding that someone answer a question in the way someone thinks it should be answered. There is a lot of that goading going around on Houzz these days.

*****

A lot of pile ons when the minority comments here.

You make a comment and it's like ants at a picnic!

It's as amusing and it is inevitable.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

Hey, Obamacare remains the law of the land for now. Are the liberals thrilled? We can now live with it and watch it in all its glory. I hope more than one Republican Senator is replaced in the voting process at the earliest opportunity.

****

If I could vote a Republican Senator out, I would at this point.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
azmom

Ann, of course Healthcare is a complex issue, only your so called brainless president thinks it is SOOOOOO Easy, and he could solve it by himself. See what happens.

If it is easy, it would not have taken that long to pass Obamacare/ACA. If it is not good, you would not find so many Trumpesters love ACA even they claimed they hate Obamacare with passion. If it is not difficult, it would not take GOP 8 years yet could not find a viable replacement.

The example regarding your husband's case is laughable. You blame people's waiting for an appointment as if they deliberately to endure pain and suffer. Does it ever occur to you why people wait if a viable doctor's choice is available?

You are so ignorant about the truth and fact, you unfairly painting a false picture as if healthcare providers do not prioritize treatment based on patients' needs. When my husband needed a surgery for his condition, called Mayo on Monday, he had surgery on Wed. the same week.

You tried to mix "deserve" in your postings, talking from both sides of your mouth. We believe No one deserves being sick, but everyone deserves treatment. I hope your granddaughter would never read your posting discussing she does not deserve diagnosis. Good thing she is in a society with people willing to provide diagnosis and treatment to her even if she could not get both, even if her grandmother does not think she deserves either.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

Ann

So far the GOP is doing all they can to kill it..

Oh, no they aren't, much to my dismay!

*****

Mine, too! They are a bunch of feckless, self-serving, lying, lily-livered, yellow-bellied rotten cowards.

Whew, that feels better ;-)

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Please don't play the victim card. You are not a minority , or as Trump spewed "the forgotten man".
People are really frightened. Poor families with disabled children are about to have their healthcare,home healthcare etc repealed with no replacement by the far right wingers.
If you think Ryan had any plan of working on a better plan, you are dreaming. He wants repeal, full repeal of Medicaid, as he has dreamed of since college, what a guy!
Republicans have the majority in all houses.
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

Ann

Sandy, back to your same rhetoric as last night. Posters on this thread are actually talking (and that doesn't mean they need to agree). Why are you stepping into every thread with an agenda to halt all conversation? That makes no sense at all. But, regardless, I don't imagine anyone is paying attention to your strange and repeated statements to ignore comments. Don't you think each person is perfectly capable of choosing for themselves which comments they want to ignore or not?

^^^

More than "like". LOVE this comment.

--------------------------------------

Ann

Sunflower, I think the skinny bill was nothing more than a fairly worthless skinny shell. But, I wanted the process to continue to committee, which Ryan did agree to. I was still hopeful that committee would turn it into a real bill. I am profoundly annoyed at the Senate Republicans.

^^^

I'm livid at this point. The lack of cohesion and failure to come through on the promises that got them elected is beyond frustrating.

This is a colossal failure and will come around and bite many of these Repubs in the arse.

Millions of people were counting on them to ease the burdens that Obamacare has brought upon them, and now there's no hope in sight.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

To our conservative posters here.

What exactly is Trump's position on healthcare ?

Is it repeal and replace

Repeal only

Fix the ACA

Let Obamacare fail

I don't mean just today . I mean specifically what was he wanted to see the Congress do? What is his vision ?


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
azmom

People like Ann, Margo, adopted, mimi type of Trumpesters thought they are all set. Unbeknown to them that they are not in the Super Rich could endure the impact and ripple effect from the GOP's dream Repeal and Replacement.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

Trump's initial position/promise was to repeal and replace Obamacare, but he's been compromising downward with the fiasco the Republican politicians have created.

What with Republicans winning so many seats, it would have seemed fairly straightforward to push through.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
azmom

Hope by now it is clear that Trumpcare fails is not about Trump, not about number of seats in both houses, it is about the content of the plan.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

Even Trump said Trumpcare was "mean". I appreciate that he said it. It was mean.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

You tried to mix "deserve" in your postings, talking from both sides of your mouth. We believe No one deserves being sick, but everyone deserves treatment. I hope your granddaughter would never read your posting discussing she does not deserve diagnosis. Good thing she is in a society with people willing to provide diagnosis and treatment to her even if she could not get both, even if her grandmother does not think she deserves either.

This paragraph is insane. I never said any such thing and you know it. You show me where I said my granddaughter "does not deserve diagnosis" or anything even on the same planet as that. Then, show me where I said she does not deserve diagnosis and treatment. Azmom, this is both insane and completely untrue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chase_gw

Trump's initial position/promise was to repeal and replace Obamacare, but he's been compromising downward"

First of all replace with what? Can you tell me what his vision of replace was? What leadership did he show in that regard ?

Second, a President compromising downward ? How is that leadership ?

If Trump was the head executive of a large publicly owned company he would be fired .......for sure!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

Ann, that paragraph is not insane. It is absolutely true. If you weren't so intent on figuring out a cute new way to bait everyone your writing would have more conviction.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ann_t

I would not have trusted Ryan as far as I could throw him to do what he promised. And neither did McCain.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

If you weren't so intent on figuring out a cute new way to bait everyone your writing would have more conviction.

A cute new way to bait everyone? What I did was give the most honest and sincere answer I could to Jill's question.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Jill, if your question wasn't answered in the way you thought it should be, it's because it was ignored, someone didn't think it a worthwhile question or they didn't feel like answering for whatever reason they chose. No need to keep asking since your question is no more important than anyone else's choice to answer or not or to answer in any way they darn well please.

No, Ann. Margo didn't answer my question.

You answered my question and I thanked you.

Nobody has to answer/reply to anything here that they don't want to. Sometimes it's because they don't want to for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's because they missed the question.

Just telling me they answered it when they didn't isn't going to make it true.

If Margo doesn't want to answer my yes or no question, that is her right. But if she wants to participate in a discussion board, she should have the decency to either answer it or say she doesn't want to.

It wasn't goading. It isn't trying to get her to say it the way I want her to. I really want to know if she thinks those 2 people should have the same access to treatment to save their life. Simple question. Your answer was "I don't know"

I was hoping she would answer my question. It's clear she's not going to. The conclusion I draw from that is she doesn't want to, probably because she knows her answer is morally objectionable.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

show me where I said she does not deserve diagnosis and treatment

From what I read, you never said that.

Then I asked you what you thought should happen if she didn't have a family with the financial resources to provide her life saving medication. Too bad, she would just have to die? I know it sounds awful, and I'm not trying to goad you.

It's not your granddaughter. It's another child the same age who happened to be born into a family without the financial resources to provide her with that life saving medication. What should happen to her?

I don't believe you answered that. If you did, please let me know and I will go re-read later today when I have more time.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sunflower_petal(5a)

"What with Republicans winning so many seats, it would have seemed fairly straightforward to push through."

I attribute this to the fact that a) they hadn't worked on it before January like they should have (even starting Nov 9th), and b) they don't seem willing to put in the necessary work to come up with a GOOD plan. They just want to push things around and together like a toddler with a pile of dirt and rocks. They seem to lack real vision for helping Americans get better healthcare.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

This experience has led me to decide I may very well choose to never answer another question on HT. Too many of you simply won't play fair. Jill, yes, I know you thanked me for answering. I felt it was a sincere question and I tried to give a sincere answer. I'm glad you recognized that. That was fair.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Azmom, there is so much more I'd like to say to you, but I think I'll let karma speak if it should choose to.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Ann - it was sincere. So, now I'm confused. Why has this led you think not want to answer another question? What am I missing?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

Ann, I really appreciate your comments and recognize you put forth your honest opinions which brings a different perspective and some balance to the bulk of the views here.

You express your views well.

It's feel your frustration.

Keep the faith and sidestep the steaming heaps of...bait ;-)

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

What with Republicans winning so many seats, it would have seemed fairly straightforward to push through

Push what through? A plan that takes away health care from millions of people and costs more? Why would you want that pushed through? Thankfully, there are some GOP Senators that realize that's not the way to fix health care.

If they had a plan that actually covered more people, or even the same number of people, and made it cheaper, they would have been able to push it through. In fact, there would have been no pushing needed. Everyone would be on board with that.

So, back to what liberals have been saying for 7 years. It's not perfect. Let's work on improving it, even if it's baby steps.


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Speaking of karma, here's another personal story. I once bumped into a car in a parking lot and noticed it did a little bit of damage. I kind of panicked and did the unthinkable. I drove away and didn't leave a note. The guilt was huge and I didn't sleep for weeks. Well, not too long after that, I was at the grocery store on a super windy day and while I was inside shopping, someone didn't put their cart in the cart corral. A HUGE wind sent that free cart flying into my car and it was impaled in the side of my car when I came out. The damage was thousands of dollar and I had a high deductible. I felt immediately that karma had stepped in and spoken very loudly to me for not leaving a note that day.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jillinnj

Keep the faith and sidestep the steaming heaps of...bait ;-)

Asking Ann if a poor person deserves the same access to live saving procedures and medications her granddaughter has is baiting?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

. I felt immediately that karma had stepped in and spoken very loudly to me for not leaving a note that day.

*****

Sounds like you got it much worse!

I'm sure you've put way more good into the world than the "bad" that was dinging another car ;-)

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

It is the tax cut the Republicans want....they want those taxes on the 2% repealed. The Reps are controlled by their big money donors and do their bidding.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Just think of the Karma from denying millions access to healthcare.....

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Jill, my decision about answering questions has nothing to do with you. I meant what I said about you being fair with your question and your response to my answer. It's the two posters that weren't fair that led me to my decision. One can have a very fair conversation going and too many are willing to "use" that conversation to completely and needlessly distort or attack. I learn more and more about HT all the time. Today was one of those days providing yet another lesson and giving me a chance to get to know a few on HT a little better.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
SandyC.
Tom Price, one of the "conservatives" on the repeal bandwagon, no replace, for years, is now in charge. The republicans have been systematically cutting subsidies paid to insurance companies in order to see it fail. The republicans have caused many counties around the country to see only one provider left in the market, and of course there is no competition.
Unless the insurance companies are assured they can offer low cost plans to people earning up to 400% of the FPL for this fall September, they are unable to post plans, if they won't get the subsidies.
Make no mistake, the republicans want Obamacare to fail, but they are actually hurting their own constituents.
They are taking the money that is to be used for subsidies for insurance companies, to provide for low income voters and using it for ads against Obamacare.
They have also cut staff to help people sign up for Obamacare and navigate through the process.
3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

. I learn more and more about HT all the time. Today was one of those days providing yet another lesson and giving me a chance to get to know a few on HT a little better.

*****

Think of it as streamlining your experience on HT.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Mimi, oh boy did I get it worse and I think I deserved it. That was a rotten thing of me to do. In all honesty, I'm a big believer in karma. It shows up in my life in good and bad ways quite often when I feel it's a direct result of my own good/fair or bad/mean actions.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lilacinjust

I'm not a big believer in karma as much as am 'do the right thing/the Golden rule'. I think good does come back to us.

The universe is just random sometimes.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

I love the streamlining comment!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Margo

jill- I had to go away for the day. I did answer your question twice now. However, I did not answer with a yes or no.

I said, for the third time now that I do not believe the government should be in the healthcare business or the healthcare insurance business since chase brought that up since my last comment about it.

I ask many questions of forum members who do not answer me. You seem to think I owe you an answer. You want a cut and dry YES or NO.

I asked you if you had a solution to this without the government. You did not answer. I know why, it is because you want the government to control it.


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo