I disagree on the snob appeal part. I know quite a few people with kitchen remodels in the several hundred thousands that don't cook. In fact, I know someone who tried to boil water with an all clad on their 48" wolf. The pan melted and became 1 with the range. It was replaced with an even more expensive range that still had plastic packaging inside the oven 2 years after it was installed. There is certainly a group of people who need to feel like they are great chefs.... lol.

I didn't know that about the fridge drawer, although I had my suspicions. My next door neighbor had all Fisher Paykal installed due to ADA issues. Long story short, they weren't very reliable.

I could also install a beverage fridge under the counter. Is there one that converts from fridge to wine chiller?

OMG, Heather, that's hysterical!

Re fridges, I'm not exactly sure, but I think there must be something. There are portable fridges, lab fridges and camp coolers that go from freezing to fridge temps. I was looking at them awhile back. A big range, like -15° to 50° F, or something like that. I'm sure that some must be available that you can install under a counter. The main thing is finding one that is good for wine bottles as well.

Yes, it's funny. Not funny is when they buy a turkey fryer and put a frozen bird in it. A friend who has a masters from MIT was making mac in cheese from a box and was trying to calculate the density of butter to determine how much to stir in. I could go on, but it involves stitches and blenders or hand mixers.

We're not big drinkers, but since we live in wine country, it's a must have. I can picture one of my boys hanging on that fridge drawer trying to climb on the counter. He's already scaled the baby gate. I'm sure they have an adjustable undercounted fridge (I don't need the freezer part).

Gary, Sounds like our Jenn-Airs were roughly the same vintage and the fix you describe is something I had done on ours 10 or so times before we gave up. It was a defect in build where ice would form on the drain line, build up in the freezer and, eventually, shut down the cooling fan. When the ice went through the fan -- before it stopped working completely -- it made a TERRIBLE noise like a lawnmower hitting rocks. Super fun to wake up to at 2 AM, I can assure you. The fridge side would always work through this, and stay relatively cool (raise just a few degrees), unless you got to a point where the entire unit just stopped working, which only happened to us once (first time), because no one could diagnose the problem originally. Be happy it didn't happen to you year one with the fridge (and two, and three, etc.) like it did for us and many others. The last repair we had, had someone come from "Jenn-Air corporate" to do the repair AND disconnect the thermistor (or whatever it's called), which hadn't been done previously (just drip pan, drain line and fan replacements) and was a "new" part of the fix at that time, which they proudly said was finally the lifelong solution. Less than a month later it failed again (same thing) ... That was the last straw and when we replaced it.

EDITED TO ADD: The problem I describe, and the fix for it you had done, involves ice along the back wall of the fridge but, more problematic, in the compartment ABOVE the freezer that you can't normally see, which is what made it hard to diagnose. By the time you can see the ice in the freezer compartment itself, or hear the dreaded lawnmower noise, the problem is already pretty far along. If, as you seem to indicate, you're having white frost in the freezer, that's almost certainly because of a bad door seal, or it not closing completely for some reason, that's letting in warm air, which could also be wildly overworking your unit (overheating issue) to make it stay cool.

Lastly, make sure the coils above are vacuumed and not bent closed (they're very soft on the Jenn-Air). We never had a heat build up issue where we had to remove the grill, but we did twice have the whole unit stop cooling -- for whatever reason -- that required it to be turned off, let sit overnight, turned back on and then it started working normally again. We also always cleaned the coils, even if they didn't look dirty, during that time. Not sure which of those things might have caused it, but eventually replaced the main control board -- another of our fun repairs -- after that happened twice in a year, and it never happened again. (We always regularly vacuum our fridge coils; I put it on the calendar for every six months so I don't forget.)

I have to disagree Cpartist. I own both a Liebherr (actually 2, 1 all fridge and 1 fridge freezer) and Gaggenau (Freezer only). The Liebherr is a better system. The lack of accoutrements is actually what I love about Liebherr. It works for how I use a fridge, easy to put in large baking trays and pans. The biofresh feature is second to none in my option. Even Miele bought the Liebherr fridges and resells as the Euroline in the US, and Canada. Before Miele started building the Mastercool for the North American market, they remarketed Liebherr fridges and still do in Europe. I love the drawers for the freezers in Liebherr. One of my requirements for a freezer is the lack of door baskets. They take up too much space and don't allow me to organize the freezer to my liking. This is why I don't like the Gaggenau because the baskets in the door prevent the full use of the shelves. The shelves don't extend the full length of the cavity even when the wall baskets are removed. Although the icemaker in the Liebherr is slow, I love the closed bucket design.

I wish Miele would integrate the biofresh into their models.

Heather, would you consider the Liebherr undermount fridge and a separate 15" wine fridge or the small Liebherr wine fridges?

I reviewed alternatives for the undercounter fridge freezers including the units common in boats but many are not approved for residential installations (Isotherm is one that I reviewed).

Good luck!

Yup, I'll be looking at undermount fridges. I agree with the issues around organization, although everyone is going to be different..... I have tiny baby food portions and pouches all over the place and that's annoying with a full depth side by side. Platters and cakes are a big problem too.

Great & helpful post, applnut2 (that's not to say the other posts here are not great & helpful too)!

Sounds like we had much the same experience,applnut2 except we have not had any defrost problems until a few months ago. I do keep the condenser spotless, and dust free and ends not bent.

The repair guy was just out and reconnected everything as it came from the factory and put in the new defrost thermostat that I had bought. He did not charge for the call, what irks us the most is the slow response.

While He was here, he did get what He calls "a Jenn-air Engineer" on the phone & conversed with him while He was attempting the repair, at least now the JA passes all the diagnostic tests.

I have inspected the freezer door and seal for any bad spots or leaks, even used a laser thermometer trying to locate the leak and so far, No Joy, but I'm gonna search again as the frost can build up in just a couple hours, sure sounds like a huge air leak to me!

Anyway, thanks to everyone here for their posts, very helpful, especially the stainless steel comments!!! I think what I will do is use my fancy photo software to show the Stainless Steel SZ installed where the wood paneled Jenn-air fridge is now, maybe that will alleviate some of the wife's doubts about the SS SZ, ya thinks?. Of course still there is the fact that we are talking about 11 grand plus to replace the Jenn-air.

Anyway will continue to keep you folks posted as to what is going on !

Gary

Heather,

In the Liebherr for instance there are pull out drawers that are the full depth of the unit. Organizing pouches from Sous vide or just vacuum packed storage is very easy and nothing comes flying out at me when I open the freezer:-) You can also choose to remove the drawers completely and just use the glass shelve in the freezer. I agree that multiple requirements exist for owners when they are looking for freezers. Depending on how you use your freezer, different models will work better for you.

Gary best of luck with your decision. The Liebherr only has 24" models as an option for you. If I were in your situation, I would get a 30" Miele with an 18" freezer. I currently have a 18" freezer and don't love it but that is what you currently have with the JennAir so it should not be a change.

Good luck!

Gary - I hope you locate that air leak and wish you luck.

I'm so glad I found this forum, you guys have saved me a ton of money and (more importantly) angst on appliances. I'm working on finalizing my plans for the kitchen and I'll certainly post for feedback. It's a very unique space and I'm desperate to get rid of the dysfunctional 80's. Today, the house was enveloped in fog and appeared to float over the valley with the sunrise.

Well you hit the "nail on the head", applnut2 . After the repair, the freezer would not go much below 17F, and frost was building up again in the freezer, (NOT the fridge). So like you, I figgered there's gotta be a leak, inspected freezer & fridge door seals, nothing obvious, alto I had bought a fridge seal several years ago, and one time when the repair guy was here, I asked him if it should be replaced, (I saw some small cracks in it). He says "No, it doesn't need replacing".

Well after it was dark last night, I took my really bright LED flashlight (It has about 40 LED's) and placed it on different height shelves in the freezer. I could not detect any light leaks, so then I did the same thing on the fridge side, Sheeeshhhh, it was leaking like a sieve, (lit up the whole kitchen, (LOL).

I told the guy yesterday, when He was here, that if anything looked even the least bit marginal, (control board, whatever), replace it. He said board was expensive, (its not compared to a new fridge, about $235). I told him "this was about the last straw" and we would replace the fridge with a Sub Zero should the problems continue.

Anyway, as usual, He is in a big hurry. He asks before He leaves, "Why are you not considering a Kitchenaid as a replacement"? (can you believe that)??? I told him, from all we read, Sub Zero has great service.

A repairman from a different company will be here today to replace the seal, (How about that, call today, get service today. Hopefully that will end this "Sad Saga"!

Again thanks to everybody here with your inputs!

Gary

Well, bad news, I told the service company over the fone I wanted the gasket replaced, guys comes out, won't replace the gasket. He says you have more problems than that. He says, "Call A & E service" What????????

Try googling A&E Service reviews, bet yua cant find many reviewss that are more than 1 star out of 5.

Anyway, that convinced the wife, Bye Bye Jenn-air and Hello Sub Zero.

Kind of a shame as I think there are only one of 2 minor problems with the fridge but trying to find serivce is like "Mining for Unobtanium"!!!

Whatever you do, MAKE SURE, you can get quality service on any product you buy, especially built in or Integrated fridges and buy one with a good record of reliability!

Gary

Gary, the price tag is painful but I don't think you'll regret it. We purchased our Sub-Zero fridge specifically because of how they handled service issues with another Wolf appliance. Above and beyond and night and day as to how Whirlpool handled the problems with our Jenn-Air when it was still in warranty, and then failed again and again (the same way) after it was out.

Thanks applnut2, the price tag really isn't that painful for us, but the lack of service on the Jenn-air has been extremely stressful. I worked on the fridge till late last nite, found the leak and the guy just wants to argue about, I said "One thing at a time", fix leak we go from there. As soon as the house cools down the fridge works fine, so I have the AC set to about 75 and the fridge is working, but struggling.

Anyway, tomorrow we go and buy the SZ. Its not that much more than a Kitchenaid or Jenn-Air. I would caution folks, "Save now and pay later", or buy the Sub Zero and avoid all the hassells we've been through.

Kinda funny, I was talking to the Saleman at an appliance store that sells all brands, Jenn-Air included. I told him, "you shouldn't sell the Jenn-Airs", He says, "I try hard not to"!

Nuff said!

Gary

Gary, I'm so sorry to hear the death knell of your J-A, but wish you nothing but ease and pleasure with your new fridge.

Really, in for a penny, do see about how you can reincorporate your panels if it'll please your wife. A clever carpenter can work wonders.

Thanks for the post pillog.

I think the chances of matching the rest of the wood in our kitchen would be difficult, to say the least. The kitchen was done in 2006 with red oak, so I suspects any "new wood", would stand out like a "sore Thumb".

Wife seems to be OK with the stainless, She wanted the "finger proof" SS, but I told here Sub Zero doesn't offer that. We do have the stainless steel Electrolux oven, speed oven, induction cooktop and wine fridge and we really don't "slave" to keep them looking nice. Our old SS Fridge was a pain cause of water & ice thru the door, so the SS on the fridge was always getting spotted. We just want the plain old ice maker in the freezer on the SZ, so I don't anticipate a lot of water splashes on the new fridge.

Right next to the fridge is our good old reliable stainless steel Electrolux speed oven, (On the same wall as fridge), so I think everything will blend in nicely.

Anyway tomorrow I take her and have a "look See", LOL.

I still need to get off my *** and photoshop the new SZ fridge where the Jenn-Air now resides.

Gary

Some finish carpenters can get surprisingly close to the original. Another way to go is to keep the panels from the JA, cut them to an even size that will fit symmetrically within the new door area, and use a contrast molding or trim, or even stainless, to frame it out. I have an image in my head of what your kitchen looks like, and it should look fine with that. It would still make the fridge more prominent, but would still be less imposing than all stainless. If that's what your wife is concerned about.

Other alternatives are to do chalkboard, and/or whiteboard, or magnet board, all of which can be done in different colors; vinyl wrap with any image you please; you can cut your old door panels up and do a mosaic effect with the addition of some tiles and/or other woods; cut the old panels into strips to make the frame (mounted on plywood or metal) and do feature pieces in the middle, etc., etc. There are many more choices than stainless for the brave...

I say leave the SZ doors as stainless steel. I think it will look current and streamlined, versus MacGyver-ing the previous fridge's panels will be difficult and may never look quite "right". You have mentioned concern over the cost of the SZ - why spend more on panels when the stainless doors look fab.

Good luck! And no such thing as smudge proof stainless steel. It's either real stainless in all its glory, or it's fake and made up of some finish to mimic stainless. I have an LG with said "smudge proof stainless". It gets just as smudgy and dirty as the real thing, only it doesn't quite show it until it gets food and grease all over it (I have a toddler, everything is covered in hand prints at his height). Trust me, you're going to want to wipe it down just as often.

Well, we went & looked at the Stainless Steel SZ fridge. Wife immediately wants to know if there is a paneled version, (She recalls the battles to keep the old SS dishwasher and the SS fridge smudge free) and in fact there were all kinds of finger prints on the SS SZ fridges they had on display at the store.

Long Story short, we bought the paneled version, will try to use some of our paneling from our current fridge, if not possible we "byte the bullet" and buy new paneling, I have to agree with the wife, at our age we just don't need the cleaning hassells. The wood panels on the dishwasher & fridge, well wife can't even recall the last time she cleaned them and they look great!

I think the wife agreed with you, heather, "lol. 48" of steel is a lot of plain shiny gray." Thanks to every one here for your posts, all very helpful.

Congrats on the purchase Dodge! Depending on your doors style, look at Scherrs and Barkers for replacement panels for the SZ.

It sounds like this story has a happy ending.

Congrats on your new fridge! We are very happy with our SZ

Congrats on your new fridge.

I'm kinda late to this party, but wanted to note that SZ's willingness to answer the phone and provide whatever data one needs to effect a repair is a plus, in my view. Also, high-end distributors that sell SZ may have their own repair department, and will have an interest in keeping their customers happy with them.

I totally understand the comments about the panels. In 2006, she got her dream kitchen and it was exactly what she wanted. I don't think you'll have as tough of a time as you think getting new panels to match. Congrats and I hope this is the last fridge you have to buy (because it lasts so long, of course).

Thanks for the great comments, and yep, we will keep you posted as to what we will be doing as far as paneling goes, so of course we will appreciate your comments on same as this is your "Forte", pillog.

Heather, one thing that is really great, the wife comments, almost daily, on how much She loves her kitchen, (even as much as the day when it was first completed, 2006). So I guess we shouldn't complain too much about a "short lived fridge".

Kaseki, you hit the nail on the head about SZ service and that's the reason we bought the SZ as I posted earlier. I gave SZ customer service a call, (just to check them out), they answered the phone promptly and the Gal that I talked to really "Knew her stuff", and answered all my questions about service, really I was quite impressed, (and this from what some probably call, "A Jenn-Air fan boy"), LOL!

I chatted, on line with Jenn-Air one more time, in the hope they might make a last ditch effort to save the fridge and their reputation with me. I tried many times to call them, just got recorded music, and an "estimated wait time" longer than I was willing to put up with, Hence the "online chat". again they recommended a company with terrible Yelp reviews, (fourteen 1 star ratings, and four 5 star). Jenn-Air Chatter,~~~ "I would be happy to move forward with an appointment, but Jenn-Air cannot use a third-party company's reviews to exclude service providers." Sheeeshhhh!!!!!!!

It took me two calls at about 10 minutes each to even reach a person at the company they recommended and then they wanted to know if the fridge was in Boston, or Los Angeles, sheeshh, anyway I cancelled the call that Jenn-Air made with them, for me!

Again thanks for all the posts and we'll See you all again after the SZ is installed, the installers will even will remove the panels from the JA for us, Now that's Service, isn't it?

Gary

Well, the new SZ BI-48S/0 got installed yesterday. Installers were "SZ Certified". They did a great job of removing the old Jenn-Air fridge and installing the SZ. Using "SZ Certified Installers", gives you an extra year or Warranty, (3 years instead of two).

Wife loves the new SZ, especially the inside lighting lighting, She says, "I can see everything".

Hopefully "panel guy" will be here today, and we will find out if some of the paneling from the Jenn-Air can be used , or we "Start from Scratch". At the very top of the fridge, (where compressors, water filters etc are located), one can go with wood panel up there or the stainless steel slotted cover, (grill), (I call it "gills"). WE are leaning towards the slotted cover as we think it will keep that area ventilated better, than would a solid wood panel. What do you all think?

Anyway we are very happy with our decision to buy it, and I will post more after the panel guy is here.

Gary

That's great! Congratulations! We used the certified SZ installers too. Worth it IMO. Tricky fridge to install and the extra warranty is worth it. Enjoy!

Gary: What I think is that a wide open exposed compressor heat exchanger* is best for heat exchange, but certainly not for aesthetics. That said, I used a wood panel for my 632. It is spaced out from the frame and I haven't noticed much heat being trapped. I have not measured the temperature in there, however, so if you would like a quick test, let me know.

The SZ, like many other such units I expect, has to be tied to the wall to protect against falling forward. I have another panel above the vent panel to access the fasteners in case the SZ has to be moved. It uses strong magnets for blind attachment.

kas

_________________

*Presumably actually plural because of the separated refrigeration and freezer loops. I never really explored the layout of those parts.

I was just behind a truck with a new SZ on it out for delivery. So jealous!

Here's a picture of the kitchen with the Jenn-Air fridge. Note the top vent, (grill) on the Electrolux speed oven, I think the Sub Zero grill will match that just fine.

If we need to start from Scratch as far as panels go, I think the panel's horizontal trim, (near the bottom of the handles), would look better if it lined up with the horizontal trim on the pantry door, (Just to the left of the fridge), Let me know what You think, thanks. Right now the old paneling was divided into 2 equal sized sections.

I'm really certain you can get new panels to match perfectly. I'm even more certain if you kept the name of the stain used. My parents have a very similar style of cabinet and we're able to hire a local cabinet guy to match the cabinets perfectly (they took out the cabinets over the peninsula, which left a "hole" in the upper cabinets and they wanted their stove hood covered with matching panels. There was also a ton of trim and furniture accents installed. You can't tell it was added 30 years later. Their kitchen was ash, which is harder to get than oak.

Gary, if the SZ has an exposed frame like the JA did, it doesn't really matter on the alignment. The frame tells the eye that the fridge is "other".

In my opinion, if you're going to continue with the double panels with the arched top, the way it was before is "correct". It's about the single door with the two panels proportionate to themselves and the arch on top. If you lined up the dividing line, you'd have to go three divisions on the fridge, and if they lined up with the face frame above, the proportions would look totally off.

If the new panels are being custom carved, and the lining up thing is really important to you, you'd do better to line the horizontal trim, as you call it, centered on the counter on the other side. That puts it too close to where it is on the pantry, however, making it look like a mistake.

Nope. You got it right in 2006. Don't overthink it.

If you want a different look, go for one long routed panel (no "horizontal trim" in the middle, or do solid panels, perhaps with inset message centers or something.

Congrats on the purchase! It's so good to hear that your wife still loves the kitchen.

I agree with plllog you guys got it right in '06. I wish my kitchen was done right, but I'm now ripping out an all-oak kitchen in the same style as yours from '87 because someone didn't get it right. The layout is all wrong. Fortunately, I can reuse the big pantry cabinets after I add a back piece to the pullout trays. Seriously, a pullout board literally just pulls out the board and lets everything on the shelf fall below. So many design problems with this kitchen.......

Thanks for the comments,Pillog & Heater, we leave it "as is then", or (like it was).

The SZ does not show the frame after it is paneled, I guess it is more "Semi Integrated" than was the Jennair. If you look at the new SZ once it is paneled you do not see any frame looking at it from "straight on", but if you look at it from the side, then you see the frame, and it will stick out a bit more from the surrounding cabinets, than did the Jennair, (IE the SZ is a bit more "proud of the surrounding cabinetry).

This doesn't bother us, as you know from our previous posts, we were never going for the "Integrated look", we just like the look and the easy maintenance of the wood panels.

The cabinet guy did not show up yesterday, hopefully He will today, so your posts were "VERY Timely", thanks a lot!

Gary

"If you want a different look, go for one long routed panel (no "horizontal trim" in the middle, or do solid panels, perhaps with inset message centers or something."

I really like your idea here, Pillog, and suggested it to the wife. She wants to wait and see what ideas the cabinet guys has too, before making any choices.

A big thing about your design, as far as the wife goes, is, "It eliminates a couple of Dust Catchers"! That was a big thing to the wife when we designed the kitchen, she did not want any knobs on anything, not on the cabinets, the pantry or the drawers, or even the appliances for that matter. She has a thing, about dust catchers, (LOL)!

Gary

Well, I get it about the dust catchers, but the kitchen I got rid of had no hardware, just grooves on the edges so you could pry open the doors, and I've gotta say, I'd rather have the dust than the finger grime!

With the full overlay panels, you might be able to really reuse your old panels by having the carpenter make "frames", like the face frames of your cabinets. The only thing would be to make them very thin so that you're not adding bulk to further stand proud. An advantage of this is that it would be easier to more or less match the color to the cabinet frames than the door. Over time the wood ages, deepens, or lightens at different rates, different cuts with more or less grain are often used for the frames, and shadows make even perfect matches look different.

Yes, but oak is so easy to match because it does have those grain variations. I agree on the finger pulls- my kitchen doesn't have any and over the years the finish has worn off. But my hinges 'snap' closed, so it's even worse when you get your fingers caught in that! I didn't know they made snap close hinges, but I'm getting soft close hinges. Lol.

Heather, it's the aging that's hard to match. That takes not only a good eye for color but the ability to choose the right wood so that it'll age further similarly to the old wood. A good carpenter can do it, but it takes a lot of skill and experience.

So. Soft close hinges are actually snap close hinges with attachments that soften the closing. Be very aware of them because your little one can catch his fingers in the hinge assemblies in the blink of an eye.

Thanks for the tip. I'm definitely going to be very picky - my toddler is all over and into everything, of course. And his little brother isn't far behind. I'm really looking forward to an oven door that's not prime height for jumping on. Lol. I'm putting in a snack station to keep them out of the kitchen, I guess the rest can be contained with baby gates (except my toddler is climbing them, so I need a new design).

Maybe you can answer this question.... what is this? It's really heavy duty and it's outside the kitchen proper at the entrance to the living room.

Well, the cabinet guy was here. He says the old panels cant be used, or at least He doesn't want to use them. He took one of the panels as a sample so he can get the stain & finish, "just right". And, guess what, the wife want the panels EXACTLY like the old ones, (like I said , She really likes her kitchen and she just doesn't want any changes to it, (at least the "visible Kind"), Lol.

I really did like your ideas, thou, pillog, but you know the old saying, "Happy Wife, Happy Life" so She will get what She wants. I'm used to doing that, as August 12th will be our Golden Wedding Anniversary, and today July 14th is my 75th birthday.

The Cabinet guy we chose, does all the Integrated and / or built in refrigerators for the appliance store where we bought the fridge, and has a lot of Sub Zero experience. He will be back Monday with a Quote, (I'm guessing 3 Grand), what do Ya'All think?

Anyway we be back as things progress.

Gary

Did he mention whether your moldings have a common shape? A couple of years ago, we need a new panel, and we were told that building the panel was cheap, but having a custom router knife made, so that the moldings match, that would cost a few hundred dollars extra. Since we were talking about a single small panel, that just didn't make financial sense and we got a steel panel instead.

@Heather, we figured that perfect baby proofing just isn't possible. And even if you try, the little ones are so ingenious.

We had very limited baby proofing (just some gates) and ironically, that's the only thing that ever got them into trouble. We'd usually just tell them: Don't touch anything electrical, don't touch anything hot, don't climb onto wobbly furniture, don't stick your head into plastic bags, ... And that worked great ever since they just started crawling. But the baby gates lulled us into a false sense of safety and we forgot to teach our son: Don't ride your bike down the stairs when the gate didn't lock correctly. He learned that lesson very quickly, though

Happy Birthday, Gary!!

Happy Anniversary to come to Gary and Mrs. Gary!

As I said, the 2006 doors were done right. I'm not surprised that your wife wants to keep the same look, though the doors will have different proportions. I think it will be close enough to please her well enough. I hope. And if the installer does all of them for the store, I'm sure he has adequate experience to do a nice job. All the best for it.

I'm thinking that it might come in below your number...

Heather, that looks like an appliance shelf minus the lift. Perhaps for using a mixer at kid height outside of the working part of the kitchen? Given the location in the doorway, I'm wondering if it might have been used for bar service? Maybe for a blender that can be accessed from the family room, if that's what's down the steps. Or perhaps even a cutting board for similar uses? If that's the dining room, maybe it's a carving station? I take it the drawer operates... It's definitely odd. Very "custom".

Did any of the neighbors socialize with the prior owners? They might know...

We're actually getting a vaguely similar pull out in our kitchen. I have a couple of small appliances that need to be attached to the counter top to work properly. In fact, the pasta extruder needs to be screwed into it. And that's just not an option with stone counter tops. But the wooden pull out is perfect

Happy Birthday Gary!

Wow! Happy 75th and happy golden anniversary! I hope I last that long! I'm sure he'll match the panels and your wife's kitchen will be restored just in time to celebrate.

Ive thought all of those things you mention about that roll out shelf. It's heavy duty, so it held something heavy. I can't imagine a Kitchenaid mixer there - it's right at the entrance to the living room and diagonal from the double ovens. I put my Kitchenaid clear across the room by the pantry and ovens (tray storage above ovens). The living room had an actual bar (it's been removed but was on the original plans and I removed the upper cabinet from the laundry room wall - kept bumping my head on it and don't need glassware storage upstairs). I agree, it's custom and I can't figure it out. We have a fire sprinkler system in the garage only (because, save the cars, of course). The house is quirky to say the least.

As for baby proofing, well, we literally live on a cliff, so there's that. The house is currently raising its 3rd set of kids, so I suppose mine will survive just fine too. Just don't look down when the house is taking 80 mile per hour winds. Fortunately, the foundations are set 30 feet into bedrock. The cool thing is when the fog creeps in. The house looks like it's floating in the clouds. It's like a lair - complete with a pirate deck off the master. It's hard to be a grownup here sometimes......