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john_m71

vegetables not growing in new raised beds!

Hi fellow gardeners! I'm in zone 5b (north of Toronto) and I've been gardening (on the ground/native soil) for a couple of years with good results but the weeds and space requirements were always a problem. So this year I decided to go with raised beds. My beds are 4'x8'x12" with landscaping fabric (instead of card board) at the bottom. I filled them up entirely with pre-mixed garden soil from a nursery: a blend of compost, aged bark, peat, topsoil and manure (typical analysis: pH: 6.5-7.5, EC: <2.5 mS/cm, Organic Matter Content: 15-25% by weight, Bulk Density: < 1.3 g/cc). After filling up the beds, I planted my vegetables right away! That was almost four weeks weeks ago and the vegetables are not growing - the plants seem to be on standby mode! We've had the rainiest June on record here with many heavy downpours and I'm afraid the rain might have drained away much of the nutrients in the beds. Soil level in the beds has definitely dropped. Does anyone suggest anything that I can do to help the plants now? Or should I start thinking about next season already? I was thinking about adding a layer of compost and/or mulch all over and around the plants? Looking forward to any suggestions. Thanks again!

Comments (31)

  • 7 years ago

    That is a lot of organic matter. Combine that with a lot of rain and you have lots of moisture in the soil which can lead to mold and fungus problems.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked John Donovan
  • 7 years ago

    I don't know what your soil is like, but John may be right that your veggies are planted in organic amendments rather than actual soil. A very disruptive solution would to remove the vegetables, added soil and fabric. Dig and loosen six to ten inches of the base soil, then add the amendments back in. Turn the soil to mix the base with the new organics so you now have a combination of both. Your base soil has nutrients and non-organic material that the store-bought mixes lack. Finally, replant.

    As for your other questions, no the nutrients did not wash away. If you were using synthetic fertilizer in a synthetic soil, then yes, that might be a concern. But the organic material is helping to hold on to available nutrients, and some material is still in the process of being broken down and will be available to the plants in the coming months. So you are fine there. And mulch is always a.good idea to keep weeds from popping up.



    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked Richard Brennan
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  • 7 years ago

    I'm thinking it's wet and heavy on organic matter. If the plants look OK in every respect except growth, that may be it. If they're yellow or have other odd symptoms it could have something to do with the soil mix such as nitrogen depletion.

    Is "15-25% organic matter" the proportion of compost (or other organic amendments) in the mix, or % soil organic matter based on a lab test? If the former, that's really not too much. But the ideal %OM in a lab test is somewhere in the 5-10% range.

    I'd wait it out, definitely don't add anything to the top of the soil so it can dry out, and hope for the best.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked toxcrusadr
  • 7 years ago

    I see two potential problems with your drainage right away: the use of landscape fabric (why?) at the bottom of the beds and the loose new soil that's been added. At any interface between two soil textures the capillary movement of water through the soil can be interrupted, and landscape fabric buried under the soil will become clogged with small soil particles very quickly, further inhibiting the movement of water and also air through the soil. Acknowledging that you may not want to rip up your beds in the middle of the growing season, if it were me I'd at least dig down in a few key locations soon after a rain and see what's happening with the soil moisture.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked theparsley
  • 7 years ago

    It's always a good idea to at least break up the surface when adding raised beds on top. Ideally, you'd break it up and then add a couple inches of the new soil and mix that together, then add the rest. This forms a transition between soil types. However I've done it the lazy way, adding newspaper on top of the lawn and layering in soil and compost. It worked fine.

    I thought landscape fabric was supposed to be porous enough for water flow but tight enough to inhibit weeds. So I think any drainage problem will be related to how tight the native soil is underneath, plus the weather. Which is why that transition layer is good. In any case with 12" of new soil, grass and weeds can't grow up through all that so the fabric really wasn't necessary.

    Bottom line, for me (clay soil), raised beds normally drain very well so it's likely things are just too wet from the rain, and all you can do is wait it out. JMHO.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked toxcrusadr
  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    >>I thought landscape fabric was supposed to be porous enough for water flow but tight enough to inhibit weeds. <<

    "Supposed" being the key word here. It's porous until it gets clogged. Even when used as intended, on top of the soil and under a layer of mulch, it usually gets clogged with soil/grit/dust particles quite quickly. In that use case, it may continue to inhibit weeds but it does not perform as claimed in maintaining water and oxygen circulation to the soil - and it is not long before enough material accumulates atop the landscape fabric for weed seeds to take root on top of it.

    However, being buried under a deep layer of soil is not how landscape fabric is designed to be used and it's even more certain to get clogged up in that event. The orgiinal poster said there was a previous problem with lots of weeds in the area, so I assume that blocking weeds was the intent, but as you say it's not necessary there, nor would cardboard be (though you see that advice given out all the time.) The layer of soil on top is more than enough to keep weed seeds from sprouting from below.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked theparsley
  • 7 years ago

    If weed is torpedo-grass, it will grow thru everything. Neither fabric/ cardboard nor 12" soil will stop it. With little time it will fill all soil of a raised bed and choke everything there.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked avgusta_gw
  • 7 years ago

    The landscape fabric would be unlikely to be the source of water flow blockage although the soil below that could be if it did not drain well before the addition of a raised bed.

  • 7 years ago

    check pH. folks will tell you that composted materials are always pH neutral, but...sometimes...not everything goes according to how things are supposed to be. If everything went according to how things are supposed to be, there'd never be any surprises, and life would be so very boring. At any rate, a low pH can stunt plant growth.

    but first...you may just need to fertilize. newly established raised beds just aren't fully ready to be season long producers. A soil test may be in order...it's the kind of information you'll want anyway, to establish a baseline and to keep track of over time, if nothing else. But...almost every soil test suggests some kind of fertilizer, so going light with some triple ten isn't going to hurt anything too much...and if you get the desired plant growth...you may have your answer before the test results get back.

    Yeah, freshly added soil tends to settle. Water may be an issue, but I think the above discussions are red herrings. What kind of fabric or cardboard you used...or if you used it...it's something to obsess over, but there are so many variables in soil types and elevations changes under the bed...it's just something to obsess over.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked waynedanielson
  • 7 years ago

    Thanks for all your comments. Here are some pics. Plants were planted exactly 1 month ago. Not much growth and some discolouring. We had so much rain that I have not had to water the plants are all!!! Even my maple trees are starting to turn red - they think the fall is here. I have never seen that happen in June!!

  • 7 years ago

    Thanks again for all your comments!!! Here are some pics. Plants were planted exactly 1 month ago. Not much growth and some discolouring. We had so much rain that I have not had to water the plants are all!!! Even my maple trees are starting to turn red - they think the fall is here. I have never seen that happen in June!!

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  • 7 years ago

    Does anyone see anything wrong with the soil and/or setup? Thank you and have a great 4th of July!!!!


  • 7 years ago

    I would plant winter squashes in each bed right now. They will drink all extra moisture very quick from beds and other plants will thank them .

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked avgusta_gw
  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Yeah, you have some nutritional deficiencies going on, and it does look like it comes back to the soil being too moist for too long.

    There are at least 2 major impacts of an over-abundance of rain and moisture...

    First, rain will leach out available nutrients. Even if your soil is rich, and can recover, it takes time for the bio-activity in the soil to convert the nutrient sources to available forms. Blended mixes, like you describe, may or may not have a good store houses of slow-release resources from which to draw. Often, the only thing to do is add a readily available fertilizer. The quickest acting are synthetic soluble products like Miracle Gro. There are soluble organics if you prefer. They are a bit tougher to find, but even a simple fish emulsion, or liquid kelp will do for the short term. Longer term, any of your preferred fertilizer side or top dressed will work.

    The other problem with too much moisture is a lack of oxygen in the soil. I think you have a combination of the 2 problems. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do for the air - maybe a little surface cultivation - but if you had a good mix from the beginning, once the rains slow a bit, you should see a little improvement once the fertilizer situation is fixed.

    Sometimes it's just a fact of gardening life... good years and bad.

    If those plants are slow to recover, it's not too late to put in some more zucchini and beans, but I'm not sure your climate offers enough summer days for tomatoes to be sown now and produce enough. Tomatoes though, are pretty good about bouncing back once conditions become more favorable.

    John (zone 5b, Ontario) thanked rgreen48
  • 7 years ago

    'I filled them up entirely with pre-mixed garden soil from a nursery... '

    My gut feeling is that this soil is not very good.

    I think you'd get better results if you dig your garden over, turning the weeds in, using what's there, not buying in stuff. In short, the way you did it before. And not bothering with landscape fabric/weed mat/or any nylon stuff that won't break down over time.

    I think that the more we tweak things to get 'perfection' the more of a muck up we make of it. Been there, done that : )


  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The biggest problem I see is how wet your soil is. The yellowing could be from any number of problems. Just look at what you said earlier. You have had a lot of rain. You also have a extremely high organic matter content in your soil. Those two problems combine to make one big problem. Plant roots need oxygen to help take in water and nutrients. If they are swimming in swampy soil they will show the same signs you see when they are lacking nutrients. 6% -12% is a good spot for organic matter.


    Your soil could well be perfectly fine nutrients wise so I wouldn't go spending money on fertilizers.

  • 7 years ago

    Those pictures show classic signs of plant chlorosis, yellowing of the leaves because the plants are not developing the chlorophyll they need to use sunlight to convert the nutrients the plant pulls up, if any, into what the plant can use to grow.

    Perhaps this article may be of some help.

    http://extension.illinois.edu/focus/index.cfm?problem=chlorosis

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Keep in mind whatever is going on is happening to all of your plants. Certainly it could be the mix or something in common with all plants.

    Did you have a soil test done or just take their word on the results?

    What has the weather (temps) been like during this time period?

    IMO using landscape fabric can inhibit the root growth. I don't like it as it does not decay and will be on this planet longer than all of us. I prefer to use newspaper or cardboard, something that will decay over time and feed the worms.

    In thinking about inhibiting root growth, I have to ask this question because I have seen it. Were these plants planted with their roots in one of those "peat pots"? When transplanting were the roots broken apart to encourage regrowth?

    While those "peat pots"are supposed to breakdown they don't or do not quickly enuff.

  • 7 years ago

    The pic of the handful of soil looks to me like the soil is very coarse with bits of sticks in it. I'm going to guess a lot of shredded wood or bark in that mix that is depleting nitrogen as it decomposes. That is, IF the whole problem isn't due to the rain alone, which it could be. I'd be careful with fertilizers too but if you do anything, I'd suggest a little nitrogen. It's so we that you could sprinkle some high N lawn fert and scratch it in, and it would dissolve pretty fast.

  • 7 years ago

    Adding some "fertilizer" without knowing what is needed is not a good environmentally sound practice.

    What is the soils pH?

    What are the levels of the major nutrients? Phosphorus, Potash, Calcium,
    Magnesium?

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Listen, these are vegetables. Using a little fertilizer is expected. We aren't talking about fertilizing a lawn that doesn't need it, we are talking about a small application targeted at the root zone of vigorous varieties of garden plants.

    Those plants need a boost. Every report coming out of Southeastern Canada is of excessive rain. Adding that targeted feeding of a soluble product (and perhaps a slower release product also) is what will replace the leached nutrients.

    As I attempted to explain in my above comment, it's possible that the purchased soil under discussion has a good storehouse of slow release nutrients. It's also possible it does not. In either case, it will take time for the soil biome to break it down into available forms. By that time, these plants will have gone the way of compost.

    Once this growing season is over, the OP can learn about soil practices that promote long term healthy growth of garden vegetables, but the diagnoses, and the treatment of targeted and measured fertilizers, is correct.

  • 7 years ago

    This season I've had the same problems with tomatoes in new raised beds. After I finally apply bloodmeal around each plant they start to grow and get greener and thicker the next day.

    My veggies in older beds didn't have that problem.

  • 7 years ago

    That sounds like the N is tied up and not available to the plant. This could be true for the OP also esp. if things aren't finished decomposing. A simple enuff fix just don't over do it.