Hm... That looks like a version of the GE Advantium Speed Oven--3 hornos en 1: Cocción rápida, Microondas y Convección, and the interior looks like it-- but the design is different from what I've seen in the USA. The interior looks the same, but I haven't seen the coil heating element in the bottom that is shown in the picture with the blue dish. I have an older model Advantium, from before they added the broiler/grill. Also, I don't know about the "bake" mode differing from convection mode. On mine, it's called "convection bake". Again, an older model. Others here have newer ones. Do look on the GE website and see if you can find a manual for the one you're looking at to download. It should be available.

I don't know what is available there. Here, they come in different sizes. The one I have is quite large, but not as big as a full sized oven. With convection, you don't need a larger oven. Compare to the arched ovens in a LaCornue range. Those use the shape of the oven to create the convection, and are small by American standards. Because the air is being moved by the fan, you don't need the same air volume for even heating. Or so I've been told. In mine, I have put three 9" casserole dishes on the 16" turntable and a 9"x17" one on the wire shelf that can go in the middle height of the oven. It's pretty big in use considering the 44 liters.

I think the only place the watts would matter is the "grill". I'd think of that more in terms of browning than searing. There are some regular ovens that have really powerful infrared grill broilers. I don't think this one does.

If it is an Advantium or other speed oven, though they leave the microwave mode and speed cook out of the description, then yes, you should be able to use it as all microwave, all oven using heating elements and the hot air convection fan, or a combination of both for speed cooking (Advantium also has halogen heating, but this model may be only in Europe and not have that for local reasons). It will say in the manual. Look for that.

This oven+microwave is manufactured by GE in China. In fact, I think it must be manufactured by a Chinese company that sells it to GE with their own exterior design and brand because I've seen almost the same one with another brand and of course, cheaper. In any case, what you are saying is that if it is a Convection oven, then having just 1650 Watts of power is enough but the grill at only 1700 Watts is probably not as good as a regular oven that are usually 2100 Watts minimum, right?

This model is not the Advantium that uses Halogen light to heat. If you go to the GE website, there is a category for the Advantium ovens and another one for the Microwave ovens. This one is under the Microwave ovens and it is called GE Profile. I would say that in the US market, the most similar one is this one: http://products.geappliances.com/appliance/gea-specs/PWB7030SLSS

My other concern apart from my question about if it is powerful enough, or as powerful as a regular oven, is if the heat is delivered when in the grill or convection mode using microwaves or just heat from the coils (there is one on top and another one below) that seem to be electrical resistances. I won't like the idea of cooking using microwaves. I am ok about heating for just 2 to 3 minutes using microwaves but I wouldn't like it for an extensive period of time like 20 to 50 mins.

Okay. That's good to know about the one that's most similar, but this one on the GE site has a steam sensor function and no grill, which are opposite from the one you're asking about. More telling is that the same one is sold by another company. As you said, many goods out of Chinese factories are badged by several different companies and sold for different prices.

OTOH, there are only a few makers of microwaves in the world. Mostly Sharp and Panasonic. So one of them may own that factory. Most appliance makers have their own designs and some particular functions, even though most of the guts are the same.

I can't really tell you about the Watts. I've never studied ovens on power. They heat up to the heat you want, and it's more about the fluctuation range of the sensor, and the ability to maintain an accurate temperature, and about having a consistent temperature throughout the oven, than wattage. Most oven cooking is done between 275-425° F., with by far the most in the 325-375° F. range. There are big differences at the lower and higher ends of the scale, for tasks like rising bread, warming plates, keeping food warm, making yoghurt, making jerky, making pizza, making crème brûlée, etc.

I would guess that the top temperature on the oven you're looking at is probably 425-450° F. That's standard for smaller convection ovens.

The grills/broilers in regular ovens are all over the map in terms of energy in and heat output. Some will rival a good outdoor grill, others will gently brown toast. You're right that more power usually means more power, but some also have the grill in the whole width of the oven, where others just have it in the middle. Whatever the case, in a convection microwave you're never going to char a steak. Crème brûlée is probably possible, since caramelization happens above 350° F., but it wouldn't be easy to get the surface hard without toughening the custard.

I am not familiar with a microwave that has coils, but the blurb on the page says microwave, convection, and speed. "Speed" means microwave + convection-heated air. Convection means heated air blowing around the oven. Microwave is just that. It is possible that this oven uses the coils top and bottom for the non-microwave heat only, without a heated air fan. That could use natural convection from the top and bottom heat, or a non-heated fan to move the air. I don't know if most convection/microwave combo ovens use microwaves to heat the air that heats the food or if they have a separate heating unit for it.

The best way to find out is to read the manual or see if there's a store where they have the oven plugged in.

Thank you for your comments. My 2 biggest concerns are the following:

1- If this 425-450° F you mentioned is enough for cooking most things. And if there is a difference because of less wattage on this oven in comparison with the bigger ones. Or if it is a direct proportional relationship between wattage and size of the inner cavity of the oven. Meaning less space, needs less wattage, but creates the same amount of heat.

2- Is the delivery of heat when in convection or grill mode created by a combination of microwaves and heat coming from the upper and bottom heated coils? Therefore, a 30 mins cooking will be a total fest of radiation?

What really concerns me is that if you look on the GE website, these GE Profile model is listed under the Microwaves category. So, for them, this is just a microwave and that is why I don't know if it always works using microwaves, therefore, radiation. I looked on the manual and there must be something wrong because it is like you always have to turn the Microwave on to cook. I contacted Customer service both from the US and Argentina, and they cannot answer all these technical questions...

"425-450° F is enough for cooking most things." true, but two important items I cook 40-50 times a year are bread and pizza (on pizza stone and steel) which I'm running at 500 and 525 respectively. I do have a counter combo micro + oven (Samsung MC12J8035CT) that I use mostly as a micro but sometimes will speed cook or oven-only if I have something small and don't want to fire up the 30" ovens. I like it as a more versatile microwave replacement, but I wouldn't give up the higher heat range as an oven replacement because of how and what I cook.

Okay. I have more time to poke around today. My Spanish is very rusty, but I know ovens, and can pretty well understand the use part of the manual. This table is from page 14:

14

Funciones

Microondas -- This is microwave only

Use la función microondas para cocinar y recalentar verduras, papas, arroz, pescado y carne.

-------------------------

Calentamiento -- This is oven cooking only with several sub-categories

Aire caliente

Con Aire Caliente usted puede preparar alimentos de la misma manera que en un horno convencional. La generación de microondas no se activa. Se recomienda precalentar el horno antes de introducir los alimentos.

...

Asador con ventilador

Use esta función para dorar las comidas de manera uniforme y crear un dorado obscuro al mismo tiempo.

...

Asador

El asador es práctico para preparar rodajas delgadas de carne o pescado.

...

Aire caliente + Calentamiento inferior

Use esta función para rostizar trozos grandes de carne, pizza, etc.

---------------------

Combinación -- This is a combination of microwave and oven with several sub-categories

Aire caliente

Use esta función para rostizar rápidamente los alimentos.

...

Aire caliente

Microondas + Asador con ventilador.

...

Microondas +Asador

Use esta función para cocinar rápidamente sus alimentos y al mismo tiempo crear una costra oscura (incluso al gratín). Las microondas y el asador se activan al mismo tiempo. El microondas cocina y el asador rostiza.

======================

There are also settings for automatic programs and for defrosting. I'm guessing that those both use microwaves, but it doesn't say on the table. The automatic programs are described on page 20, and at least one uses microwaves. I don't know if all do. But you don't need to use any of them. It's better, in my opinion, to control the oven yourself, unless it's a sensor function like popcorn bags. I haven't found a description of the defrost, but I can almost guarantee that it's microwave, because that's something microwaves excel at.

Page 15 has the temperatures.

For convection cooking Puede seleccionarse una temperatura desde 50 hasta 230 grados. That's 122 - 446° F.

For grill with convection cooking entre 100 y 230 grados. Las temperaturas posibles son 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 150, 155, 160, 165,170, 175, 180, 185, 190, 195, 200, 205,210, 215, 220, 225 y 230.

The high temperature of 230° C is adequate for most things, including most kinds of bread. You can do an adequate pizza, but not brilliant. Better of you bake the crust first, and use a preheated, heavy pizza pan.

What you can't do, as I said before, is get a good hard crust on crème brûlée, or a charred sear on a rare steak. For most things it's fine. For American style pies, you need 425° F, which it should do well, being 20° F under the top heat. Most ovens don't hold temperature as well at the very top heat, since they bop back and forth between a little too hot and a little too cool. And they want to advertise their tippy top numbers rather than leaving a margin to make sure the top number holds.

The low temperature is adequate for most things, but too warm for rising bread dough or plate warming. Rising dough is easy if you have a warm spot, like on a running clothes dryer, cable TV box or stereo receiver, pot of warm water, etc. It'll do the yoghurt, slow cooking, etc.

450F is probably the top temperature you are going to see with a convection microwave. They just don't like getting any hotter than that. And that's hotter than anything I cook, unless I'm looking for burnt offerings.

450F is the same for a 10,000watt oven or a 1 watt oven. It's just the time it takes to get there from room temperature. In the unit you've listed, the thing has exposed elements both above and below. I'm willing to bet it preheats rather quickly.

It won't use microwaves to create heat, at least heated air.

The answer to #2 above is 'No', not unless you want to use a combination of microwaves and heating elements. I have a GE microwave-convection countertop oven. In the combination mode, the microwave power is set to 30% but the air temperature can be set up to 450F.

I think that the answer to my 2nd concern about the sources of energy to deliver heat is probably answered by the phrase on the User Manual that plllog brought up: "Con Aire Caliente usted puede preparar alimentos de la misma manera que en un horno convencional. La generación de microondas no se activa. " Translated, that means that the generation of microwaves doesn't get activated when in Convection mode. That probably means that you can put a metal pan when you are in convection mode and it won't explode. I am ok with microwaving for at the most 5 mins, but even if I am conscious that microwaves are not harmful and that science didn't find anything against it yet, I prefer not to risk. The fact that it can be cooking for 40 mins using microwaves terrifies me a bit.

In relationship to my 1st concern, about how powerful these combination oven+microwaves are, it was good that stevep2005 brought up the fact that he owns a Samsung MC12J8035CT which is very similar to the one I am talking about although smaller in size since this is just 1.2 cu ft that are roughly 34 liters and that the one I am looking at from GE or BGH is 44 liters in volume of the interior cavity. The good thing is that for this Samsung MC12J8035CT, I was able to find some reviews on the web like: http://www.consumersearch.com/microwaves/samsung-mc12j8035ct-countertop-convection-microwave

As a conclusion after reading that review, one can say that the only downside people see is that: "The Samsung MC12J8035CT gets an overall rating of 3.5 stars out of 5 in nearly 15 customer reviews. While that seems rather low, an examination of the reviews finds the complaints seem to center around the convection feature, which users say heats and cooks too slowly; several say it stopped working altogether after a fairly short period of time. The majority, though are pleased and say the Samsung MC12J8035CT is everything they wanted in a combination microwave/convection oven."

This is a review from Amazon and basically that is the only downside: it cooks slower than most regular conventional ovens.

For what I can understand of what weedmeister said is that 450 F is the highest temperature it can get but on these less powerful combo microwave+ovens that are just around 1650 Watts, it takes longer to get to that temperature, so it will take longer to cook anything in comparison to regular ovens that can be 2100+ Watts.

I am not an expert cook so I don't know if you really need more than 450 F to cook. Do pizzas get baked better with more than 500 F? That is what I understood from plllog 's comment. That it won't be a brilliant pizza with just 450 F. Plus it will be slower to cook/bake it?

It will be slower to preheat. But once it gets to the desired temperature, cooking time will be the same.

The combination microwave/convection modes cycle between a few seconds of microwave with the rest normal heating. When I do a potato at 400f, it will microwave for about 10 seconds, then 30 seconds of heat. Or something like that. This continues until done (about 20 minutes).

The fact that it can be cooking for 40 mins using microwaves terrifies me a bit. That should terrify your food more! LOL!

As Weedmeister said, in combination mode, it's not constantly microwaving. Yes, you can use any metal pan in convection (air) mode. I think it even comes with one. This is the standard way combination units work. There will be no microwaving unless you use micowave or combination mode.

Yes, to the temperature conclusion. That's what I was trying to say but too dimly--the power isn't the issue, it's the temperature. More power may mean getting to that temperature faster (but some of that is also design efficiency). Since you have a smaller volume of air than a full sized oven, you have a lot less to heat up.

Reviews skew to the bad--most people don't bother coming online to review something that works according to expectations, unless they have a following, or are particularly impressed. I think your takeaway from reading them is good.

Re pizza, yes, you understood right. I'm talking about pizza from scratch. A takeaway or frozen heat and eat pizza should come out fine, especially if you preheat a heavy pizza pan to put it on. A well risen pizza from scratch, par baked so that it rises and sets, then topped grilled, will be fine. You might even be able to do a thin pizza with toppings on, on the heated pizza pan, all in one go. The edges might get a bit tough, any method, but that's why they're called "pizza bones". If you're big into pizza, try a few different ways of doing it and find out what works best, but pizza is at the outer limits of what this oven does.

The issues with pizza are getting oven spring (making the yeast puff up the dough when it gets hot), a firm and cooked bottom, a top that's cooked rather than gummy, even with toppings, hot/cooked toppings, and melted cheese with some caramelization. Some people also want char. Most do pizza at the top temperature of their ovens, top rack under the grill/broiler, which can be as high as 650° F., and wish for more, so get pizza ovens (usually outdoors) that go up to 775-900° F. Some even think a wood fired clay oven is the only way. There are a lot of pizza obsessives in the world. My oven has a special attachment with an electric coil under an inch thick dense clay pizza stone. With that, and a thin whole wheat crust, I actually bake at 475° F. For a yeastier, thicker, damper, white flour pizza crust, more like 525° F.

But if you're not in that class of pizza snobbery, and just want to make something to eat, you should be able to get it done. I just wouldn't count on that 450° F. top temperature. Think of it more as 430° F. and figure if it holds temperature consistently higher than that, it's a gift.

Ok, then what I can see is that if I want to cook pizza, and a really good one from scratch, I will need to buy a regular oven that can handle 250ºC - 482ºF, because this combo microwave+oven can only go as much as 230ºC - 446ºF and I will get a gummy pizza as plllog said.

I see that all regular ovens have a maximum temperature of 250ºC - 482ºF. Nothing more than that. I was now looking into 2 that I like and one is from this local company BGH that imports Chinese ovens (https://www.bgh.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Manual-BHE65E-FINAL-baja.pdf) that says it has a maximum power of 3000 Watts but it only goes to a maximum of 250ºC - 482ºF with 65 liters of volume in the inner cavity and another one from FRANKE (http://www.spar.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/BO-6530-01-1.pdf) produced in Turkey that claims to have a maximum power of 2450 Watts and a volume of the interior cavity of 58 liters or 61 liters according to the Manual. It also shows to have a maximum temperature of 250ºC - 482ºF on the tuner.

Now my doubt is in between these 2 regular ovens :-)

Most regular ovens here in the USA have a maximum temperature of 550° F. (287° C.), which is adequate, with a pizza stone or steel, for decent scratch pizza.

Perhaps the issue, if you're enthusiastic about pizza, would be to find an alternative? Do you have an outdoor grill? There's a device here that people put on their grills that is pizza oven powered by the grill. You can also grill a pizza on a regular high temperature grill using a perforated pizza pan and a cover.

I don't have time to look at your new two ovens today. Maybe tomorrow.

Weird that most ovens in the US have a maximum temperature of 287ºC. Maybe they only show 250ºC for marketing purposes to have an round number here. I suppose that they do the same in Europe.

Where I live in Argentina, is too cold in winter time to use an outdoor grill. We only do it in summer time, or on a sunny day in winter at mid day.

Thank you!

I don't think it's rounding. Having it be 250° C/485° F rather than 250° C/482° F or 252° C/485° F is rounding. 550° F / 287° C is a LOT hotter. There are ovens sold here that only go to about 485° F. or 500° F., but they're usually smaller or specialty ovens.

There may be other issues that come into play here, like customer demand, energy conservation, local building and safety codes, etc. My German oven (Gaggenau) goes to 550° F. It's a low production item so I doubt it's a special model for the USA. The numbers on the screen are a digital setting and can be F or C.

Members of this forum who live in places like Alaska and Minnesota, where there's a lot of snow, use their grills in the dead of Winter, but I don't blame you for not doing so. :) It's a good alternative for pizza, however. ;)

I didn't even know Franke had ovens. I'm used to that name as a brand of sinks. I hadn't heard of BGH at all. The difference might just be the brands. I'm having some issues understanding the Franke. It seems to be saying that the oven lamp is involved in the cooking modes, but maybe it's just that there are certain modes where it turns on and others where it doesn't and they squished it all into the same chart. It gives a lot of info about how to cook lots of things from which you can draw parallels to what you want to cook. It notably does not mention pizza. 485° F does make pizza just possible. You would need a pizza stone, pizza steel or heavy pizza pan (heavy stoneware or cast iron).

The BGH has some interesting modes, like the one that uses both the top heat and grill. That might work well for pizza. It talks a lot about automatic functions that don't make sense to me, and I think it's the operation (I don't do automatic) rather than the language. I don't know about the defrost mode which is just blowing air around. A lot of convection ovens have this, but I haven't learned to use it to good effect.

I'm thinking that the top temperature may go with the oven size. My combi-steam (convection oven with steam) is 49 liters/max. temp 485° F, and my regular oven (with top and bottom heat, convection and no convection, grill/broiler, bread dough mode, pizza stone + pizza mode, and self cleaning (905° F), is 127 liters/max. temp 550° F. These two ovens are 58-65 liters/max temp 485° F. So they're more like my smaller oven than larger, even though they have all the basic modes of a regular oven. I think neither does fan only, though. It may be that the fan is only for added air circulation rather than heated like the ones in my ovens are. Top and bottom heat together will give you convection, so the fan may just be an aid. This is something you should be able to find out either from the manuals, or by checking on the web. I can't scan-read in Spanish, so I'd have to read the whole thing just to find if there's a place where it says.

That looks to me like the top temperature is related to the oven size, though that is just an inference.

It looks like they're fairly comparable ovens. Are there any reviews you can look at to see how people like them?

Hi plllog, thank you for your good analysis and congratulations for your good understanding of Spanish! You found the same inconsistencies I found! Like about the lamp. For a moment I also understood that the lamp was involved in the heating process, like for example a Halogen lamp can be on the Advantium oven, but that is not very probable and your interpretation about it being just for lighting is more feasible. You also found this difference about the BGH having the defrost mode where it just uses the fan.

The big difference I see between the 2 is that the Franke has a maximum convection power of 2450 Watts whereas the BGH lists 3000 Watts as "maximum power".

The other difference is the brand. BGH is just a local brand from a Russian immigrant that founded the company maybe in the '50's called Boris Garfunkel and now his sons are importing appliances from China and just stamping their brand on it, whereas Franke is Franke, a well known brand from Switzerland that engineers their products and send them to be manufactured in Turkey.

Thank-you! I've been chafing at the imperfections in my ability to read Spanish (it used to be much better)--especially considering your English is impeccable-- but I like your way of looking at it better. It's the scanning in Spanish that I just can't do, though. Never could. Where you look at a whole paragraph and know what it's about, and your eye picks out the word or two about what you're looking for. I actually have to read all the words in Spanish. :)

I don't know if the power difference has any real effect on performance. The BGH "max power" may just be what's needed to run both the top heating element and the grill at the same time (which is another difference from the Franke). I don't know if those modes would help pizza, but I'd guess that's the kind of thing it was really meant for. I doubt max power is used that often by any oven. Probably in a pre-heat mode where all elements are on to make the oven heat more rapidly than just using the ones you want to cook with. But I don't know that for sure.

A consideration in buying any appliance is service. Ovens sometimes need to be calibrated, or a part may fail. A Chinese oven from an established local company which services and stands by it (for instance, will replace it if the unit is a "lemon"--just no good), if they actually do that, might trump a respected European oven which is sold though by the store, but they just give you the box and expect you to deal with any issues yourself. The same goes for outside sources for service.

Here, some major independent appliance stores have their own service departments and have excellent techs. There are also companies in the city that specialize in one brand, such as Gaggenau or Whirlpool, and some other independents that work on the "big box store" brands such as Samsung, LG, and Panasonic, and will do any general service and repair, but don't stock the parts, which makes for a wait. Some of the big makers also have their own techs, or have certified techs at a local independent to do warranty work.

It never hurts to find out who can and will do the work both during the warranty period and after.

There should be a one year warranty on either. Factory testing can't find all faults, and sometimes something comes loose or breaks in shipping. The warranty should start on the day of installation. It's important to check that, because if it starts on the date of sale, but the unit is installed months later, you lose a big chunk of warranty.

If the maker is giving a big extension on the warranty without added value, that's a red flag. Miele gives an extra year of warranty if you use their installers, presumably because they were getting too many warranty calls for issues caused by poor installation. But, another company might give a five year warranty, where one or two years is the norm, because they're known to have build issues. The five year warranty says, "Don't worry. We've got you covered. Buy ours anyway and we'll fix the faults."

At a certain point, analysis goes out the window. After you've figured out all the features, the service, the reviews, etc., and there aren't any deal killers with either, perhaps it's the one with the nicer dials or racks that you end up preferring, or the one that matches the fridge. If you can see them in person and touch the doors and racks and knobs, you might feel which one you like better.

Thank you plllog for your comments. They are indeed very helpful.

Sorry I didn't reply before but I was very busy on my own Kitchen remodel. Funny that I am an architect myself and I design kitchens on a daily basis, specially in the US with a partner who is an American architect, but when it comes to design my own, I really stumble on every decision trying to reach the perfect choice every time.

I still see that the major differences between these 2 ovens is the wattage, but can't tell if that translates into one being more powerful than the other since both of them reach the same maximum temperature of 250º C.

You are right about the fact that final decisions are about design and looks. I am a Swiss descendant, so that is why I like the brand. Franke has its own factory here in Argentina. This oven in particular is imported from Turkey where there is an important appliance maker. I really don't know about how their customer service is...

No worries. I designed my own kitchen, and for the most part got it right, but it took a long time and a lot of attention. I find designing for others a lot easier, usually. It's easier dealing with other people's problems too. There's no emotion, and no (should be no) self indulgence.

Remember, it's just an oven. It's a really important part of a kitchen, but if you build your cabinet to accept any oven and trim it to fit the particular oven, if it turns out you hate the oven too much to just learn its quirks and adapt to it, you can always change it. I mean, you're pretty much stuck with the studs once the walls are finished. ;)

I was serious in my speculation that the greater wattage of the one was for running the combination of broiler and top heat. There are probably energy usage limits by law affecting the design. They can get some wiggle room if extra power draw is on a "feature" rather than the standard way of using it. If that difference is still concerning you, you might see if you can find out more about how these ovens translate their Wattage numbers into heat, and if there really is a difference.

Good luck!