St Augustine should never develop thatch. You could force it to happen by watering it for 10 minutes every day and fertilizing with a spray on fertilizer every week, but that is about the poorest of lawn care ideas.

Urine spots are a concern in all lawns. It doesn't matter what grass you have. The problem gets fixed when the soil is healthy. Using an organic fertilizer every now and then (at least annually) will go a long way to remedying the problem.

St Aug has stolons (runners) which grow over the top of the soil. You can see them and control them with a string trimmer. Zoysia spreads via rhizomes underground. You cannot see them to control them. I've seen them pop up 10 feet away. I don't like that feature. One popular grass in your area is Marathon I, II, or III. It is a dwarf fescue that needs a lot of water to beat the SoCal heat. With your water issues it is not an appropriate turfgrass anymore.

Thank you, dchall, that's very useful information! I did not know the St. Aug stolons were that easily manageable, and since I'd only just recently heard of Zoysia, I had no idea about the rhizomes. Also did not know that St. Aug doesn't thatch; I thought it was similar to Bermuda in that way. St. Augustine is looking a bit more attractive now, at least from a maintenance standpoint. I'd still prefer a nice, pretty Marathon or other fescue, but my gardeners are convinced it's not for me and my dogs.

Fescue grows as individual plants. When you plant enough seeds and they sprout close enough to each other, it looks like a lawn. St Augustine, zoysia, and bermuda grow initially as an individual but everywhere a stolon hits the ground, new roots form and the plant spreads. Rhizomes work similarly underground for both bermuda and zoysia. When temps are in the 70s to low 80s, St Augustine will spread at a rate of about 2 inches per week. Warmer or colder and it does not spread that quickly. At the end of the season it might spread 10-15 feet. As the stolons criss-cross each other, the grass becomes very dense.

While St Augustine will survive being mowed low, it works much better when mowed high.

Hey dchall, if you're still there, I have a quick question: do you know anything about RTF (rhizomatous tall fescue) turf? Since it has rhizomes as opposed to stolons, I assume that it would have the same problems as Bermuda and Zoysia, as far as invasiveness into neighboring beds?

Sorry, I don't know anything about it.

For dogs.... Kentucky-31 Tall Fescue.

Once it is established, it is virtually INDESTRUCTIBLE so long as you keep it cut high. Plus, it's readily available and cheap as peanuts. Translation: if your beasts happen to kill it (e.g. Digging holes), patching it up will be a simple and easy operation. Kentucky 31 germinates in about 7 days, which is faster than Bermuda or St. Augustine or KBG can spread to fill in the area. K-31 is a forage fescue... it can stand up to rhode of cattle marching over it, eating it to the ground... and it comes back.

Another perk of K-31 fescue is that it is less resistant to bugs and insects than Bermuda, St. Augustine, and KBG... meaning that you will not likely need to apply pesticides to the lawn where your dog rolls in, eats the grass, where its toys roll during fetch, etc. Likewise, it has nice, thick blades of grass that... if cut at 3-4 inches, will block out the sun that weeds need.

A mature stand of K-31 is very low maintenance. It literally is taking over parts of the US without watering, fertilization, etc. About 3 months after it germinates, you will have a nice lawn for your dog to romp around on.

I used K-31 for my dogs backyard kingdom when I first moved in to my home. Since then, I've overseeded and/or patched some areas with TTTF, elite TTTF, Kentucky Bluegrass and/or Perenniel Ryegrass. So far, K-31 has outperformed everything and is still about 95% of my backyard,

my front lawn is my show case lawn, and I wouldn't ever consider k-31 for that type of purpose. But my backyard is for the dog, and I don't care if it doesn't have expensive, elite cultivars.

owlnsr, thank you! Where are you located? When does this grass go dormant?

RTF is a marketing ploy, tests have shown it doesn't spread any more than regular fescue. Which is not at all.

In Southern California, where watering lawns is highly discouraged (and often prohibited), I would rethink the premise of actually growing turf grass. ANY kind of turf grass!

If you want something living, then perhaps a dog-friendly and drought tolerant groundcover. Or some of the native grasses, like Carex pansa or tumulicola.

Or for extreme ease of maintenance and after-doggie clean up, artificial turf. While more expensive initially to install, better quality artificial turf is almost indistinguishable from real grass and lasts for 20 plus years with nothing more required than the occasional hosing down. No mower, no edging, no fertilizer and no pest or disease issues. And almost no water.

If one type of tall fescue has rhizomes, and the other doesn't, how could they have the same rate of spread? That makes no sense what so ever !

If one doesn't spread at all, and the other doesn't spread at all, then they have the same rate of spread - 0.

http://kentcoopextension.blogspot.com/2008/04/turf-rhizomatous-tall-fescue.html

https://seedsuperstore.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/does-tall-fescue-spread/

All tall fescue have rhizomes. They just do not produce them as rapidly as other turf plants, e.g. KBG. Morever, tall fescue rhizomes do not extend as far.

The difference between tall fescue and RTF is that the RTF types have been selectively "bred" from fescue plants that exhibited more prolific rhizomatous activity.

Regardless, RTF will not spread around as effectively as KBG or other types of turf with rhizomes. In other words, it doesn't / hasn't lived up to the marketing hype.

So I did end up going with the St. Augustine. Here are a few pictures, the first two from right after the sod went in, and the last one of one of my dogs enjoying the result a few weeks later, the first time she was allowed on it. I'm learning how to care for it, and seeing a few issues cropping up (I really wanted this to go in during the spring, not the hot summer, but the gardeners procrastinated on getting the process started). But I don't think it's anything that can't be dealt with.

Thanks for all the input!

Looks good! They did a nice clean job on the install

That's one lucky pooch!

@dchall_san_antonio, thank you for all the advice! I've read some of your other posts and comments, so I'd already learned much of this from you without you even realizing it.

However, there are some patches already browning, under very different circumstances, throughout the turf. In a couple of areas, there is quite a bit of shade, albeit small patches, throughout the day. Those never quite seem to dry up completely; there are also some areas of poor drainage, though the gardeners did install a couple of drains into the ground there. Finally, there are some browning areas in full sun. I am trying to resist the temptation to water more often for those spots, per your advice and because the areas that take longer to dry fully will suffer if I do. The ambient high temps around here are ranging from 85° to 95° lately, with spikes above 100° every couple of weeks.

Today, I asked the gardeners not to mow, but when they saw the brown spots, they advised me that they should mow the grass even shorter than they usually do, because the roots aren't getting enough sunlight; they cut it down to about 1" or so, saying they'll cut it even shorter next time. I'll insist that they don't, unless I see improvement over the next week that indicates they might have been right (doubtful). I forgot to remind them to leave the clippings on the grass as mulch, though I suspect they'd argue against it anyway, saying it would cover the roots too much to allow them to get sun. The clippings went into my compost bin today.

Anyway, thank you again for all the tips! I had no idea about the cornmeal. What does that do, and what is it good for, exactly?

You don't want to mulch mow fresh sod, keep composting those clippings until the grass is well established. Air & sun are your friends

Cornmeal is one of many ingredients in organic fertilizer, so it has a "slow release" greening effect. What I typically use it for is disease control. If you can take a close up (3 inches) picture of your browning area that should show any disease lesions. Wait for an overcast day or take it in the shade. It is hard to see things in bright sunlight with dark shadows. Cornmeal works against disease by attracting a predatory fungus. That predatory fungus will consume the disease leaving a healthy turf. A new lawn should not be browning. It is almost certain to be a watering issue leading either to disease or to washing nutrients out of the root zone.

You might want to fire your lawn people. Mowing short was the exact wrong advice. Roots do not need sunlight, they need shade. That's why they go at the bottom of the plant and not the top. Lawn people like to make their life easier by mowing everyone down to the same mower height. Bermuda should be mowed at the mower's lowest setting and St Aug should be mowed at the highest setting.

How is your St Augustine holding up with the dog?

@norm1977, wow, I hadn’t expected a response or comment anymore at this late stage, but it’s always nice when someone checks in! On the whole, the lawn is holding up great. One of my dogs passed away in 2019, 😢 so it’s only taking abuse from one instead of two now, and there are definitely places along the edges where it has died because those are regular pee spots for my boy. But I expected that, and they’re not big areas. Right now a good portion of the lawn is dormant for winter, especially where it’s more exposed when there’s the occasional frost like we got last week. It is one of the best garden investments I made!

Wow, sorry to hear about your dog. But I'm glad to hear the lawn's holding up well.

For the dog spots, even in the winter dormancy, drop a heaping handful of table sugar on the spots. That should green them up...even in winter dormancy. When I tried it in winter, 3 weeks later the grass in those spots looked like summer had hit with deep green grass, 6 inches tall.

Tru dat. It's a short-term solution, but it works. For longer-term, feed organically. The increased bacterial levels will lead to...well, more bacteria. Bacteria like nitrogen and use tons of it, will absorb the urea in the urine, and keep the lawn from burning as easily.

@dchall_san_antonio and @morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA): good ideas and suggestions, but I think the areas I’m talking about may be beyond hope at this point. I’m guessing that only patching in new sod will solve these areas’ problems.

Give it a shot. You'll need more than a handful for that area, but not more than 3-4.

And of course, keep my boy away from the area for a while.

Nothing is ever beyond hope, and that...is not beyond hope. Do you drink coffee? In addition to the sugar, start tossing your used coffee grounds into that spot as well. Lay them out like little offerings, side by side, day by day, as you go. As you remember and have time.

If you even think your dog may go after it, don't do this. Caffeine is highly toxic to dogs.

Other things to use are corn meal, alfalfa meal, any other grain meal, spent brewer's meals (most brewers give them away free) and almost any other organic material you can think of.

Well, almost any organic to a point. It has to have protein in it so no salad greens. But cornmeal or any flour from the kitchen is fine. Just dust it on. Normally you would buy one of morph's listed items from your local feed store. Click here for a map to the feed stores in your area.