Please help me choose and improve my layout

6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

Hi everyone, I would really appreciate your advice on this kitchen layout. I have lurked on this forum for a while, and sometimes posted, as I wished for the time to come to redo our kitchen the way I want to. Unfortunately, this is not that remodel. We will be renting our house out for a while, so we need to do a budget remodel now instead. We can't move any plumbing, windows, or doors (with one exception described below.) The refrigerator also needs to stay where it is. Here's the current layout of the kitchen and first floor.

Yes, currently there really is no lower cabinetry in the kitchen. All we have is the sink, DW, and range lined up against the single wall. The only lower cabinets are in the island base and the narrow hutch against the opposite wall. For the remodel, we will be closing up the door in the lower right corner. This at least gives us 11' to work with instead of 6. The window on the lower wall (between the refrigerator and the line marked 48") is a low window only 18" off the floor and can't be changed. The window trim starts 48" along that wall from the corner. The kitchen overall is 12'1" wide. There is a large pantry in the back room, so no need for a pantry cab in the kitchen.

Because not much else can be changed, my main goal for this post is to come up with the best layout for the sink/range wall. I would really like to be able to move the sink to the right so there's landing space on the left side. I am not sure yet whether I can switch the sink and DW or even if it's possible to scoot the sink over a foot (the contractor is coming tomorrow - I will ask then). I'd also like to get more work space between sink and stove. The guy who will be the property manager really wants to wrap cabinets around the corner (with a lazy susan or blind corner), as he seems to think this will add work space, but I am highly skeptical that that is a good use of space since there's only 24" past the corner. I would like to go to a 30" sink cabinet rather than the 24" I have currently (maybe 27" as a compromise).

I see three possibilities (other ideas are welcome!) (I did these in Ikea's planner because it's easy, but we will use a different cabinet brand. Still trying to stick to standard sizes.)

1. Keep sink where it is on the end, include a blind corner cab to wrap the corner and a 6" or 9" pullout between the stove and corner. There is space for a 15" cab between DW and range, and a total of 39" between sink and range. To me, this is almost no improvement over the current arrangement!

2. Switch the DW and range. Do not wrap corner. I'd like there to be 18" between range and wall, but I put a 15" cab there to allow for fillers. This allows for a 30" cab between sink and range (24" dw + 30" sink + 30" cab + 30" range + 15" cab + 3" fillers). 30" between sink and range is pretty skimpy (but better than we have now!) Could go down to a 27" sink cab to get 3" more between sink and range.

3. Keep DW to right of range. Put a 12" cab before sink at end of run. 18" cab between dw and range and 15" on other side of range (12" cab + 30" sink + 24" dw + 18" cab + 30" range + 15" cab + 5" fillers.) This gives 36" between sink and stove. I could maybe change the 18" cab to 21" t increase this to 39" if I can get away with 2" of fillers.

I like this one the best. I realize having the dw between sink and range is far from ideal, but we have to compromise somewhere (either dw in the middle or only 30" of prep space). I should add that we will also have a 66" island with two wide drawer banks just opposite. I also like the symmetry the uppers will have in this layout (although that's not the most important consideration.) Here's a rendering (I haven't added uppers yet, but you can see the symmetry.)

As I said, I've lurked in this forum a lot and the knowledge and generosity of the folks here always amazes me. Your thoughts, comments, and suggestions for improvements would be most appreciated!! Thank you!

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Comments (4)

jmarino19
6 years ago
I don't think 12" is adeqaute to the left side of the sink. Here are the kitchen planning "rules" for reference. See, rule 11. From experience, we found that a 21" sink-side landing space wasn't quite adequate for handwashed items, soap dispenser, paper towels and-or coffee maker, etc. So that sink related stuff landed in the prep zone instead, which then cramped that prep space.

I would do plan #2, modified.

End-panel to support the countertop on the aisle-side of the dw --1", 24" dw, 27" sink-base (if available), 33" prep space, 30" range, 15" cab or drawer base and 2" filler. Plates across from the dw in drawers in the island. Where are you planning on putting the trash?
atmoscat thanked jmarino19
atmoscat
Original Author
6 years ago
Thanks, jmarino! Good point about keeping the clean up stuff separate from he prep area. I talked to the contractor today and he also thinks that switching the dw and sink is a good idea and said it is 'doable.' He said he usually uses a 36" sink base, which would definitely be too big. He is going to check to see if they can do 30" or maybe 27". I do like your modification of a slightly smaller sink and larger prep space, so we'll see what they can do. Do others agree that this is a good plan? (Well, within in the constraints, anyway.)
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Thank you both for your comments! eaglemom100, there is enough room for the toilet if we move the door. The code is 30" and there would be that much space between the wall and the door molding. The toilet I will be using, a Toto, is 18" wide. There would be a window right next to it, and the door would be closed when anyone was using the toilet. I am thinking, though, that it might be strange to have a toilet behind the door. clarosietoo, I agree that Plan 2 gives more space for a vanity. weedyacres, storage is a real problem throughout our house. Our master bedroom (which does not have a master bath, by the way) is quite large, with a sunroom off of it, but it has only one standard closet, about 3' wide. There would not be privacy for the toilet, because when the door was closed, as it would be when anyone was using it, it would be open to the room.
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I want to be logical, and not try to design my whole house around a dream kitchen, but alas, I am after all, TKO. Talk me down? I am flailing here, as you will see. I feel your pain because I'm in nearly the same position as you except it's my roof lines that are driving me batty. I've gone through countless iterations of what I want on my first floor and because I have fewer room needs than your plans shows, meaning fewer combinations, I've tried my hand at playing with orientations in order to achieve my multiple goals. What I'm finding is that no matter what I do, when I pull on the string in one place the rest of the tapestry is affected, so design, as I see it (I'm no professional) has to flow organically, one feature flowing naturally into the next. I'm sensing that you're hitting that same wall - the combination of shapes/orientations isn't working throughout the whole house. I wouldn't hesitate for even a moment in scraping a plan that you don't feel completely comfortable with and I wouldn't for a moment think that you're illogical for building a whole plan around your kitchen. I'm pretty much doing that right now. What I found was that the kitchen was the room that was/is driving me the battiest, so if I start with a blank slate (still mindful of my conditions, which in your case would be the underground garage plus other points) and then play around with the kitchen shape + workflow + adjoining rooms & features and get those issues mostly settled in the kitchen then the rest of the house can flow outwards from there. I noticed that your architects original plan had an angled section and that he put secondary rooms in there, leaving the primary rooms in the traditional square/block pattern. The square rooms are definitely easier to work with. Your attempt at a compromise put a functional room into the angled wing and this created an awkward junction between the family room and the kitchen right at the kitchen. Why not continue the angle with the kitchen included and then try to use the space where the two wings of the house meet in a way that serves a purpose. So my words of advice to you are to break the problems down into individual problems and then try to solve one at a time before proceeding to the next. Count on a 3 steps forward, 2 steps back type of process as you'll find yourself going back to what you think you had solved which now presents as a problem due to something you've just done, and then begin the process again, one step at a time. I don't know what you want to accomplish with the kitchen design, but one thing I would try is to orient the kitchen with the family room. In your crooked picture, find the point where the DR meets the kitchen and draw your 45 wall starting there. Then draw another 45 line right at your door, losing the little window wall to the left of the entry. Now the awkward angled space is right where your pantry and closets are located and it is here that you can hide the awkward space into secondary rooms. You have a lot of room to work with in your kitchen space, so mix it up, try things that you normally wouldn't, and may well reject, but try these new ideas in order to see how they play out and how they affect other aspects of your plan. Try bumpouts, try peninsulas, try a banquette, try a bay window, try an irregular shaped room (beyond just a room at a 45 angle to the adjacent room.) Most importantly though is to spell out what you want in your kitchen and which of the designs that you posted most speaks to you.
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funky - I totally agree with the practicality of the extra sink, water by the cooktop, the baking area and as a beverage center for parties. Ranges, I don't like them much. The simple freestanding ones are out of the question, spills run down the side into the netherworld between cabinet and stove...yak, shudder! The slide-ins don't create that type of mess and cost less at the outset than built ins, but if either the cooktop or the oven stops working, both need to be replaced, not much of a savings there. We currently have a GE top of the line slide in range in which the oven racks keep falling off the guides as (can anyone even believe this?) the oven walls have started to bow out. So much for "American made" and "top of the line" in today's appliances. Also, we're aiming to achieve a minimalist scandinavian look, and ranges, even the slide-in ones just have so much bulk to them. As to occasionally bending down, it's probably good for us, and just doesn't bother me. I'd say the bending when filling and emptying the dishwasher is much more of an issue, as we do that repeatedly each day and often for a prolonged time. If my DW would butt up to tall cabinetry in my kitchen plan, I'd elevate the DW center to counter height, the way Europeans build theirs right into their cabs, now that would really make a nice difference. benje - I've seen that kitchen, it's very cool looking. An open galley like that is what my dream home would have, so practical and no corners. And yes, it would look and work fabulous in our family room. But, he problem is, the family room would not look good in the old kitchen space, for one the space is just too small. Secondly, the almost wall to wall and floor to ceiling window and sliding door in the current family room are what make sitting there and gazing into the backyard ideal. We also enjoy these views from our kitchen, as we can see through the family room into the backyard. The reverse would not be the case, the kitchen cabinetry would block the view from people who are sitting on low couches. In the current kitchen, the window sills are at ca. 37" and cannot be changed (beneath two of them sits our tall AC). anyway there is no view out the side yard, and we will not add a "picture window" to the front of our house. So, no, I don't think we would ever use this space as a family room. Nice try though benje - thank you.
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jmarino19
6 years ago
I had 24" Franke undermount SS sink in 27" sink base. Think it was this one.
atmoscat thanked jmarino19
atmoscat
Original Author
6 years ago
Thank you! That looks like a nice sink. Oh, I also forgot to answer about the trash. It could go under the sink. That's where it is now, though it drives me crazy having to get out of the way for someone to open it. Maybe it would be less bad with a double door base? Or it could go in the island, though I was planning to do 2 wide drawer stacks there. I'll add the island and wall cabs to the plan and post a new version.

Please help me choose and improve my layout

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Please help me choose and improve my layout

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