What should SNAP cards be used for?

loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

In your opinion, and please state why you believe it, what should government SNAP cards be able to purchase? Do you think there should be limits, or carte Blanche?

I think they should be used for staples and low-processed foods. More bang for your buck, healthier, less junk.

I can't tell you the amount of junk in carts paid for with SNAP cards!

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maddielee

I will not judge what people use their benefits for.

And I would never limit the food to low-processed food. Because I know too many people (many wealthy) who have no idea how to make a healthy meal.


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sunflower_petal(5a)

I think in order to do that you'd have to rework bar codes on food products so that registers would be able to key off them. Imagine the complexity:

Whole wheat bread is good, but white bread is not.

Plain applesauce but not cinnamon flavored applesauce.

What about stevia vs. sugar?

Bottles of corn oil vs. canola oil?

Let's add in some enforced savings too:

Store brand yogurt but not Chobani.

Fresh apples but only when in season when they are cheaper.

Ground hamburger meat is fine, but t-bone steaks are not.

Should we approve organically-raised chicken or just make them get the cheapest?

Can we track their birthdays so that if they want to buy cake mix to celebrate it will only be during that timeframe?

As an IT person, getting the contract to write the code for this would be awesome! Just imagine how far we could go!

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momj47(7A)

There are already limits on the cards.

Look it up

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elvis

Can we track their birthdays so that if they want to buy cake mix to celebrate it will only be during that timeframe?

Oh, yes. Great idea! Seriously, then your answer to the OP questions would be "NO".

WIC program manages to cover the nutrition situation pretty well, so yes, think that while SNAP will never be perfect any more than humans will be perfect, it could be modified to persuade more people to be nutrition-aware.

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CindyMac(8b)

The irony! Trump wants to do away with healthy school lunches. And then there's his own poor dietary choices. SMH

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"Seriously, then your answer to the OP questions would be "NO"."

Which questions would get a "no"? It doesn't seem to be an appropriate answer for any of these of these three. Even the answer to the third would be "yes" or "carte Blanche," not "no."

What should SNAP cards be used for?

what should government SNAP cards be able to purchase?

Do you think there should be limits, or carte Blanche?

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Google is your friend.


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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Interesting how some people seem to enjoy picking on the poorest people in America.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Thanks, Lena, for posting those details. And look, those items are dated 2007, and 2008 - before the Democrats were in charge.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Yeah, but that's not what they are saying on Fox & Friends.

It's those welfare queens that are bringing the country down, doncha know.

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patriciae_gw(07)

If all women were pregnant or postpartum and their kids 5 and under I guess money under snap wouldn't be so important. But they aren't Elvis. And the adults aren't all women.

People getting Snap money are usually fill up the kids aware. All that fresh healthy stuff is very expensive and the amount of money per person doesn't get you past cheap and filling. I have heard of any number of people over the years who try to feed themselves and their families on the money you would get and fail even with cupboards full of extras for spicing things up. I looked up the lowest payment-it was about 103.87 per participant per month. That gives you around $1.15 per meal. The average is about $1.40. Not exactly organic vegetable range or much in the way of vegetables at all. Adolescent boy? you will be in real trouble.

Now you also have to have a working stove in the place you live and money to pay for gas or electricity to run the thing. You need pots and pans and time to cook. Life gets more and more complicated doesn't it.

I know how to cook and I primarily buy staples. I have cupboards full of things like baking powder and soda, spices, oils etc. I have sifters and spoons and graters, good knives, all sorts of pots and pans bowls measuring things and bakeware. You name I have it. Now imagine the kitchen of a person whose life has come unraveled.

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spanielgirl

And doesn't know how to cook!

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Don't forget that some areas of the country (or your state or your county or your city) are known as food deserts. That makes it harder to use those food stamps to buy healthy, low cost foods.

http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defines-food-deserts

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lilacinjust

Now you also have to have a working stove in the place you live and money to pay for gas or electricity to run the thing. You need pots and pans and time to cook. Life gets more and more complicated doesn't it.

I know how to cook and I primarily buy staples. I have cupboards full of things like baking powder and soda, spices, oils etc. I have sifters and spoons and graters, good knives, all sorts of pots and pans bowls measuring things and bakeware. You name I have it. Now imagine the kitchen of a person whose life has come unraveled.

*****

And good, proper supermarkets that area accessible.

Farmers markets, too, but that gets tough when the average expenditure is low and keeping producers in the stalls gets harder.

It is done, though.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

So buying a cart full of pop tarts, sugary cereal, little Debbie cakes, chocolate milk, hot pockets, chicken nuggets, pizza rolls,and 4 kinds of chips is smart? The lady paying for this with her card had 3 boys under 10 years bouncing off the walls around her. I joked with the oldest kid that there must be a special occasion coming up, He replied, "no, just normal..." The mom glared at me, pulled out extra cash and got a carton of cigarettes... my tax dollars at work.

Hey, I was on food stamps once, and the grocer commented that he never saw someone squeeze out more food from them than I could!

ETA: no fruit, veggie, or plain meat in the cart. Not even plain milk.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

And maybe she is also caring for her mother who is terminally ill with cancer.

But go ahead and judge, some people find it makes them feel superior.

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ann_t

"I can't tell you the amount of junk in carts paid for with SNAP cards!"

Mind your own business and stop looking in other people's cart. Damn, I can't believe how miserable and nasty some people are.


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maddielee

"Hey, I was on food stamps once, and the grocer commented that he never saw someone squeeze out more food from them than I could!"

Good for you! You are the best!

Now stop judging others.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I look in carts because I routinely pay for people's carts of food as my private pay it forward. If I see someone buying conservatively, I often will maneuver ahead or behind them and then pay their bill. Store personnel know me and will wave me off from some scammers. I also buy grocery cards and hand them out while shopping. Also, I teach classes on shopping/ cooking for anyone who wants to learn to save money ( mainly females requesting continued assistance through our church).

Oh yeah, I pack food boxes and bags for our food pantry. Too bad I am miserable and nasty....have you helped anyone directly lately?

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Judging? Well I have walked in their shoes. I know poverty and roughing it. I've lived in rooming houses with no kitchens and still prepared my family meals. I've lived a winter or two on road kill for protein. Yeah, and I've even learned how to make oatmeal (gruel) a dandy supper. I know what can be done, yet so many won't try, because they are entitled to what they want.

Anyone can learn to cook. People don't because they are enabled.

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jodik_gw

That's the problem with this country today, Lena... there is no end to those who just love to judge other people, based on absolutely no information, whatsoever.

Each of those individuals or families that use SNAP have a different story. Without knowing exact circumstances and backgrounds, there's no way one can label or pigeonhole entire swaths of people who use and need public assistance.

It boggles the mind how positively nosy and selfish, not to mention self-righteous and superior some people are... completely at odds because they can't control the lives of others.

Perhaps it would benefit them if they minded their own damn business and worried about themselves, instead.

What's that saying? Oh, yeah... "there but for the grace of god, go I".

Well... what goes around comes around, so don't be too surprised when, some day, someone else is checking out the contents of your shopping cart and judging you on your choices as you pay with SNAP.

Geez!


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Ann

WIC does do this. It definitely slows the line down, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea because the kids might end up with healthier foods. I don't know if I agree the government should be able to tell anyone what they can eat, but when the government is paying for someone's food, the amount of "control" they should or shouldn't have becomes a bit murky.

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ann_t

"Judging? Well I have walked in their shoes. I know poverty and roughing it. I've lived in rooming houses with no kitchens and still prepared my family meals. I've lived a winter or two on road kill for protein. Yeah, and I've even learned how to make oatmeal (gruel) a dandy supper. I know what can be done, yet so many won't try, because they are entitled to what they want."

Well bully for you. Too bad the hard times hadn't made you more compassionate instead of callous.

The fact that you are making judgements, with help from store clerks, about who is deserving of your generosity, kind of ruins your good deed.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I have had snide and rude comments made about me, my appearance, or what I am buying in a grocery store. People jab about how it must be nice to be able to buy so much meat, or fruits and veggies. Usually they ask what I plan on doing with all that stuff. I normally tell them how many meals I can make out of it - and that the cost per meal is pretty low.

Or I truthfully tell them that a lot of the canned or dry goods are for a local food pantry. The cashiers usually chime in that they have lots of people doing that...

P.s. I never make snide comments to shoppers, note, I joked with the kids that there must be a special occasion coming up....

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

So what makes the difference Jodi?

Some of us go through rough times and think, yes, I will help others in similar straits -- please take $1/day so your kids can have head-start & a decent breakfast. Others nose about other people's shopping carts thinking "I made it all on my own (right), you can go suck eggs".

It is not the 'taxpayer' money involved, SNAP is a pittance compared to what we spend on the military. SNAP seems to come up often enough that I'll guess that it is the incessant drone from hate talk media. Pick on those who have even less than you and you will feel better about yourself.

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elvis

Kudos, Loonlake. You're a better person than most here, from the look of things. You inspired me, thank you.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

loonlake, I appreciate your generosity and your willingness to improve the nutrition of others. Thank you for all you do personally to help others.

The cart you describe does make me wince but without knowing if she made other trips without the kids to get "basics," it is hard to judge. The information that Lena posted indicates that lawmakers have considered this topic, but I agree it seems like some products could be curbed a bit. Moving it a bit more towards WIC would seem a prudent consideration.

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maifleur01

Perhaps it is just here but spices are not allowed. Farmers markets here are more expensive for the same amount of produce as in the grocery store. Currently apples are $1.68 and not in season. Last fall when they were in season they were $2.68 a lb. Very few places other than the reviled Aldi's carry bagged fruit.

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ohiomom

How bout' the 'food police' set up in grocery stores and 'food shame' anyone using a snap card. You can grab their carts and hold up for all to see what you consider wrong purchases, use a megaphone for greater voice carry. You will feel so much better about yourself if you do this ... go for it!!

Some folk just earn the tag 'deplorables'

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I don't look in anyone's cart, nor have I had anyone look into mine.

Only comments that I regularly hear are when an item is placed on the conveyor belt and the next person in line -- and that person could be me -- says "Oops! That reminds me I forgot to buy X."

.

I have no idea who pays with SNAP. I don't check to see how people are paying for their groceries, and it's really none of my business. I see signs at various vendors at farmers markets that say food stamps accepted, but again I don't notice how people pay.

.

Our food co-op has a bin for donations of goods to a local food bank.

.

I would like to see soaps and detergents added to permissable SNAP items.

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Kathy

I agree Nancy....I don't pay attention...but after hearing loon, I will look for someone to pay it forward...if anyone thinks food stamps pay for all your groceries they never tried to live a month on 100.00 worth of food...

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ann_t

People like loonlake would not be able to judge fellow shoppers in Canada. Those receiving assistance are given money, not some sort of card that identifies them as receiving social assistance. The amount would be based on whether it was for an individual or family and the recipient would be responsible for paying for their rent and buying what they deemed necessary for their family.

Damn aye!!!! Would take all the fun out of it for those that enjoy judging those worse off.

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elvis

The SNAP card is a debit card, annt. It's not brightly colored or otherwise conspicuous. Looks like a credit card, no Scarlett Letter stuff. Chill.

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foodonastump

I don't purposely go about snooping in people's carts but that's not to say I don't sometimes notice what's in them if it stands out for some reason good or bad. I notice people who stand there like dopes instead of helping bag, with total disregard for the people in line behind them. (When there's no bagger.) I notice people who take their time to count out 79 cents of the smallest coins they have when the bill is $87.79, with total disregard for the people in line behind them. But I've never noticed someone pay with a SNAP card. Is it obvious?

EDIT - looks like Elvis answered my question in a cross post.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Loonlakelaborcamp had no problem identifying the moochers.

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ann_t

Well elvis, if it isn't obvious, that must mean that Loon is really going out of her way to identify SNAP card users.

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CindyMac(8b)

I notice people who take their time to count out 79 cents of the
smallest coins they have when the bill is $87.79, with total disregard
for the people in line behind them.

My dh does that. Yikes, didn't know it was cause for contempt. He's also been known to pitch in when someone is short of change.

ETA: He has to fight the urge to bag in some stores. It's a natural inclination having grown up with a father who managed an A&P.

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ohiomom

I take a bagger (DS) with me, he knows how I like my groceries bagged and has been doing so since he was a young lad. Never have to worry bout' a heavy item on top of the bread/eggs. (^_^)

The folks that are concerned (gag) with poor people eating healthy are the same ones who heads spun on their necks when Michelle Obama wanted school age children to get healthy meals in schools.

Can't please some folk ...

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I don't bag my own our purchases unless there are only a few items.

I'm so bad at bagging that I actually hold up the line as I redo the bag, try a third time, the cloth bag flops over and stuff flops out, try a fourth time.

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lilacinjust

The folks that are concerned (gag) with poor people eating healthy are the same ones who heads spun on their necks when Michelle Obama wanted school age children to get healthy meals in schools.

Can't please some folk ...

******

And the same folks tsk tsking Loon for starting a topic about what people buy with SNAP cards are the same folks who praised Michelle Obama up and down for dictating what is considered a healthy lunch at school.

We now have teachers shaming parents for sending their kid to school with RAISINS.

The same liberals who's leaders want to tell people how much soda they can buy with their own damn money!

Democrats are Food Nazis, so spare us the righteous indignation and virtue signaling at Loon.

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Pidge

I've been in line behind SNAP customers and while it's a pain to wait a couple of minutes longer while the cashier totals the SNAP balance and what the person has to use cash to pay for, it's jsut not a big deal. I am just grateful that I am priveleged enough to breeze through.


I am repelled by people who are so eager to judge SNAP recipients. Get a frigging life.


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frank_il

The SNAP card is a debit card, annt. It's not brightly colored or otherwise conspicuous. Looks like a credit card, no Scarlett Letter stuff. Chill.

It is pretty easy to notice. I will admit that I have noticed. I will even admit that I have judged. In Illinois it is a Link Card.

Wisconsin's is fairly obvious too.


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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Card design vary by state. Since I work at a bank, I can identify most local bank debit cards at a glance. Not too hard when people pull them out, hold them at the ready, or put them on the machines. Heck, some people don't even hide their PIN as they use it!

P.S. I judge the program because it is so messed up. People in general will get by with as much as they can.

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ohiomom

Which is exactly why you should form a group to watch those people ... and point them out LOUDLY to everyone in the store ... grab those items out of their carts hold them up for all to see .... if they have kids with them make sure to shame them to .... take NO prisoners.

GO FOR IT ... march off to war on the poor!!

Get em' and get em' good, and please come back and report .... oh and be sure to get pictures to share with us.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Oddly enough because Demi famously used to mention people and their food in their carts and ebit cards (I didn't actually know what an ebit was before that though I saw it on the card reader) recently I was in the grocery store with my DH and I asked him if he could tell what sort of card the person in front of us was using. I couldn't and I was particularly looking. He said no. I don't remember why it came to mind but there you are. I couldn't tell and he couldn't tell. Now I do notice the sort of stuff in a cart-large and blocky vs lots of small stuff. Hopefully you get through quicker with the former rather than the latter. For me I like to be aware and happy that I don't have to use some sort of government issued card to buy food. Once in a while it comes to mind. I am reminded to be thankful.

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jodik_gw

SNAP should be used for anything edible... and then some.

There are other necessities that SNAP doesn't cover... like soap, toilet paper, feminine products, toothpaste, etc.

I don't mind, at all, if the taxes I pay go to help other families in need. I'm surely not nosy enough to run around stores check shopping carts, or demanding that the poor only get the poorest of items!

Personally, I don't care what they purchase with their SNAP... that's up to them.

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ann_t

No, that isn't true. You are judging the people using the card. You want to determine what they can purchase. Heaven forbid they buy a frozen pizza, or ice cream bars for their family. Oh no, can't have that. Not with your tax dollars.

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SandyC.

My daughter has a"Little Sister" who's single mom is in her early thirties and has five kids, all with different dads. They live in a poor east side area of San Diego. Driving there one day with my daughter, it is like another world. There are no Whole Foods, Sprouts or other well known grocery stores. There are no farmers markets or Trader Joes. There are fast food restaurants, same day check cashing places and that's about it.

It is difficult for a single mother with kids to take public transportation to buy expensive healthy fooods.

The children receive one hot lunch, 5 days a week and they are on their own on the weekends.

Children and seniors are the benificiiaries of many public assistance programs, just like healthcare, it is not the children's fault they were born into poverty.


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elvis

You are judging the people using the card. You want to determine what they can purchase

So basically all I need to do is post whatever and you will tell me what I really mean. So relaxing!

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chase_gw

I don't get the whole foodstamp, lunch program, heating subsidy etc.

In Canada we give those who qualify x number of dollars per month. It is their's to manage with no restrictions.

No foodstamps, no rent subsidies. Figure it out or go hungry until the next cheque.

The intent is to insist they manage their life, make their choices , and live with the consequences of their choices

Might shock those who think we are so socialistic. ......we aren't. ..not even close.

The notion of school lunches is bizzare to me, we have no such thing in Canada.. We always packed our own lunch and I packed lunches for my kids.

There is no such thing as cafeterias in grade schools. You either bring a bagged lunch or go home for lunch


ETA........we do have breakfast and lunch programmes in poor neighbourhoods but they are almost 100% community based...not government funded

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ann_t

Here, I'll make it easy for you elvis.

"P.S. I judge the program because it is so messed up. People in general will get by with as much as they can."

I was responding to Loon.

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Ann

Chase, that's interesting. I like the expectation that the citizens manage their lives and make their choices - as I think people are better at making their own decisions than a government is at making decisions for them.

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maifleur01

chase what happens when they do not manage the money well enough to last a whole month?

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CindyMac(8b)

The notion of school lunches is bizzare to me, we have no such thing in Canada.. We always packed our own lunch and I packed lunches for my kids.


Is there no child poverty in Canada? For some kids, their school lunch provides the best nutrition they'll get all day. Sad, but true.

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frank_il

Some parents can't be trusted enough to manage their money wisely enough. If they are given the money up front and they have a drug addiction, what happens to the children? How do they eat? I have no problem with our program. I just think that there should be more limits to what can be purchased (pop tarts, cookies, etc.).

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SandyC.
It is by far the best nutrition they have all day. My SIL used to teach and keep PB&J and bread in her room, for kids that didn't have breakfast. A hungry child is not going to learn.
This post is shameful, as it is nothing more than shaming poor people. Just as some have taken to with other benefits like healthcare, it amazes me people don't care about the recipients of these programs. The empathy gene is missing, and as another thread with an essay written by a conservative voice, the Republican Party has become soulless.
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ann_t

So only children from affluent families should be able to eat pop tarts, and cookies, etc.?

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maifleur01

It is not only the Republican Party that has become soulless but a larger number of people regardless of party. Edited to add heartless along with soulless.

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labrea_gw

Loon you in Canada?

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frank_il

Those receiving assistance are given money, not some sort of card that identifies them as receiving social assistance.

What if they choose to spend it on drugs?


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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Any program needs to be evaluated. You can't just hand out funds without accountability.

Our church used to give out cash cards to anyone who claimed need, just so as to not shame them. By tracking where the cards were used, they knew they were being used for other than food.

We began a help yourself food pantry, but saw recipients only choose junk food. They left the fruits and veggies.

When we packed boxes of balanced meals, so many said they did not know how to cook - things as simple as dry pasta and spaghetti sauce from a jar. We then started classes for them. Provided childcare and taught them basic cooking. If they continued on the program, they could get up to 500.00 in food/ cash supplies a month. It is gratifying helping them learn to support themselves.

Yeah, I guess to some accountability is heartless and soulless. Just throw money at it and nevermind.

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elvis

annt, NO ONE wants kids to go hungry. However, some of us don't want to be told that buying treats is mandatory, whether it's for ourselves or someone else.

Pop tarts? You can buy a box of fortified cereal for about the same price.

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elvis

"When we packed boxes of balanced meals, so many said they did not know how to cook - things as simple as dry pasta and spaghetti sauce from a jar. We then started classes for them. Provided childcare and taught them basic cooking. If they continued on the program, they could get up to 500.00 in food/ cash supplies a month. It is gratifying helping them learn to support themselves."

Well done.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

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ann_t

No need to explain elvis, I know exactly where you stand on this subject.


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labrea_gw

One last thing sugar doesn't make kids hyper ! It's a debunked food myth debunked at lest 2 decades ago!


https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/growth-curve/sugar-doesn’t-make-kids-hyper-and-other-parenting-myths



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elvis

No need to explain elvis, I know exactly where you stand on this subject.

Of course you do, annt. You know what everyone is thinking, it's amazing, really!

_______

Labrea, no one on this thread said sugar makes kids hyper. When Loonlake remarked: "So buying a cart full of pop tarts, sugary cereal, little Debbie cakes, chocolate milk, hot pockets, chicken nuggets, pizza rolls,and 4 kinds of chips is smart? The lady paying for this with her card had 3 boys under 10 years bouncing off the walls around her," she didn't say that sugar made kids hyper. The kids were likely bouncing around because kids do that in grocery stores, they get excited. Well, sometimes they whine, but not usually when the cart is bursting with junk food.

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haydayhayday

"Remember: Beer has Food Value, but Food has no Beer Value!"

Hay

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chase_gw

Yes there most certainly child poverty here.......way too much !

There are breakfast programmes and some lunch programmes in schools with high levels of poverty but they are privately and / or locally funded. Definitely no such thing as school lunches. The kids pack a lunch and eat at their desks or walk home for lunch. Many High Schools have privately run cafeterias

Getting and staying on welfare is not easy in Ontario. Exceptions are single mothers with children. ..that is the majority of our welfare recepients.

If the recipient runs out of money before the end of the month , too bad, so sad Recipients with children can request extra money but they go through hoops to get it. Our foodbanks are forever in crisis mode looking for donations.



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labrea_gw

So kids bouncing off the walls had nothing to do with Nutrition! Either that or Your also loonlake your so intimately aware w=of what they meant?

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ninamarie(4Ont.)

I have a suggestion that would satisfy the conservatives amongst us.

Thin gruel - breakfast, lunch and dinner. But just in case anyone enjoys that thin gruel - thus building dependency - it should be cooked with the hottest chile peppers ever and a spoonful or so of bitter herbs.

Because poor people should not enjoy their food.

But why not go all the way? If someone is poor and needs assistance, then they should sign away their rights to privacy and freedom. What do they eat? How often do they have sex? Do they use birth control? What should we allow them to see on televison? What radio stations can they listen to? What thoughts are they thinking?

Controlling this many people would be labour intensive. Jobs, jobs, jobs! And eventually, prisons might run out of illegal immigrants to make their fat profits, so we could start sending poor people to jail and help build America's prison economy.

And the conservatives would finally have what they always wanted - total control over other human beings.

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azmom

"This post is shameful, as it is nothing more than shaming poor people. Just as some have taken to with other benefits like healthcare, it amazes me people don't care about the recipients of these programs. it amazes me people don't care about the recipients of these program"

Yep, Noticed it loud and clear; especially from those who used the service in the past themselves.

Reminded us of similar case, such as Ann who used the service offered by Planned Parenthood based on her own decision, but now she wants to deprive other women's needs to receive the service.

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haydayhayday

"And the conservatives would finally have what they always wanted - total control over other human beings."

You make it so easy for whoever wants the control.

You missed that critical step.

Hay


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jodik_gw

Quite honestly, Hay, I'd be more inclined to help someone out who didn't lie about why they needed spare change or a few dollars.

I am not so ignorant as to be unable to guess what it would be like to need something... regardless of what that something is.


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rob333 (zone 7a)

Whatever they want. They don't need to live anyone else's life. Nunya business

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

I would remove control from everyone else.

If you're going to give people a designated grocery benefit that has cash value, then they should spend it on whatever supermarket purchases they like or need (including soap and paper towels). Everyone else should be prohibited from micromanaging the purchases. Everyone, especially the government.

Hay is correct - when you endow people with the power to give you stuff, you also give them the power of control. Authoritarianism is authoritarianism regardless of either the purpose or the outcome. There is no such thing as "good authoritarianism" or a "benevolent dictator". It is wishful thinking.

Take away the control and no one can pervert that power, which is why I advocate for figuring out an amount based on family demographics, disbursing the money, and then letting those who use it make the decisions, for better or worse.

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frank_il

then letting those who use it make the decisions, for better or worse.

And what if for worse allows a child to go hungry? Are you ok with that?

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Ann

Frank, it's a challenge, isn't it? People don't want to be told what to do by others (and I get that) but it's terrible if the money isn't spent wisely for healthy food and a child is suffering.

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maifleur01

Frank the people that want this do not care about the child but only what they see as individual liberties. This country and others used to do this in the 17-1800's and thousands of children were abandoned on the streets of every town and city around the world. I had hoped that some had become enlightened but now realized that they just do not care for anyone other than themselves.

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chase_gw

I'm off the opinion that any one who would use their welfare money for booze or drugs will fibs a way to do it with food stamps.

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SandyC.
There are mandated reporters, be it a teacher, doctor, coach etc. in place to report to Children's Services signs of abuse or neglect.
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elvis

labrea_gw

So kids bouncing off the walls had nothing to do with Nutrition! Either that or Your also loonlake your so intimately aware w=of what they meant?

Nope, I am saying that my interpretation is as likely to be correct as yours is. Fair enough?

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elvis

frank_il

[Take away the control and no one can pervert that power, which is why I advocate for figuring out an amount based on family demographics, disbursing the money, and] then letting those who use it make the decisions, for better or worse.

"And what if for worse allows a child to go hungry? Are you ok with that?"

Frank, I notice that you questioned Lionheart's statement (bolded). Wasn't her statement basically the same as what Chase said: "If the recipient runs out of money before the end of the month , too bad, so sad Recipients with children can request extra money but they go through hoops to get it ." and "No foodstamps, no rent subsidies. Figure it out or go hungry until the next cheque. The intent is to insist they manage their life, make their choices , and live with the consequences of their choices".

I also notice that Maifleur also has a problem with this:

maifleur01

"Frank the people that want this do not care about the child but only what they see as individual liberties."

So Frank, are you questioning Chase's statements also, or just Lionheart's? And Maifleur, are you saying that Lionheart and Chase "do not care about the child but only what they see as individual liberties"?

Just to clarify, seeing as we're all part of the conversation here.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I'm surprised no one focused on the carton of cigs she was buying. $80.00+ around here. Hope someone else gave her the money for them.

I'm just sad there did not seem to be balanced, nutritious food in the cart. I hope those kids are getting it elsewhere. That's a big reason our church only puts one or two "sweet treat" items in each prepacked pantry box.

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chase_gw

Elvis, if you look further up the thread you will see Frank did question me on my post.

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maifleur01

Elvis may comments were for anyone that thinks people do not run out of money by the end of the month. Several are more interested in the money than the child. Things happen to budgets and if each month it is already stretched to the limit someone goes without. I was never without but sometimes there was not much available. For some children that not much available is none.

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labrea_gw

I'm surprised you think I would believe your stories!

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elvis

labrea_gw

I'm surprised you think I would believe your stories!

I don't, but if being surprised pleases you, enjoy!

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Margo

LOL elvis;)

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purrmichigan(5)

I have had snide and rude comments made about me, my appearance, or what I am buying in a grocery store. People jab about how it must be nice to be able to buy so much meat, or fruits and veggies

I have never ever had that experience and these anecdotes always make me wary. People do not ordinary "jab" anyone in stores or comment about how nice it must be ..... Or commenting about your appearance??

From that comment alone, I'm not getting a sense of credibility. I've grocery shopped in most states of this country and have never seen anything like you describe.

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Margo

puremichigan60(5)

I have had snide and rude comments made about me, my appearance, or what I am buying in a grocery store. People jab about how it must be nice to be able to buy so much meat, or fruits and veggies

I have never ever had that experience and these anecdotes always make me wary. People do not ordinary "jab" anyone in stores or comment about how nice it must be ..... Or commenting about your appearance??

From that comment alone, I'm not getting a sense of credibility. I've grocery shopped in most states of this country and have never seen anything like you describe.

Why do you question so many people's first hand stories? Just because YOU have not seen it does not make it not true.

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labrea_gw

Elvis is really taking it personally! Margo remains in hyena laughing mode ! Still what are we to take from is see what your doing

elvis certainly never cared much for the 250 million frauds out of brooklyn with Mercedes in the garage multi million $ apts ! One of the many ho Hum posts ! Might have gotten a littler snark but that's typical of the gnat!

I promised the next time some yahoo posted about a welfare queen she'd be on it along wit the usual crowd!

Thos Values! nickle & dime Republican thugs!

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Margo


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Margo

You will have an epiphany at some point in time;))

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labrea_gw

The jonesing junky in front of me yesterday had 6 bucks left on her card she paid $ something in change! Left the line because she forgot something checkout woman was shaking her head. Several others were clucking only thing that bother me about her is she smells like cat pee! She's a regular in our Community garden ! Along with 3 other junkies who sometimes nod out there!

ah well I love these tales!

Cant remember that miserable cow from Louisianas name. She always had great welfare cheat stories! go to AA meetings you hear loads of them! Get on every program available!

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labrea_gw

I had shots for that Margo!

epiphanies are a luxury of those who imagine such things !

The rest of us out 1 foot in front of the other!

epiphanic imaginings and the cleansing of the gates of perceptible cognition!

I think we are reaching the can't take it after the long dish period of hot topic postings eh? Looking for respectability are yah?

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Margo

OK labrea, but I am holding out ....we all like a surprise....

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labrea_gw

In that case. Surprise me post something interesting!

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

PM, yes, unfortunately some people do make snide comments. I guess being a plain looking older person, with a cane, having a slower time unloading a cart sets some people off. My husband witnessed it once I thought he'd deck the guy--and he has never struck another in anger. The cashier who knows me set the guy straight.

ETA: Yeah, I'm fat too, so it's always open season for me...

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Margo


labrea_gw

In that case. Surprise me post something interesting!

OK, since you insist. When I was born I was dubbed *Future Horseradish Queen*... lol, you know my destiny was sealed at that point ;))

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ann_t

Loon you need to find better places to shop.

I grocery shop almost everyday. Something I have always done regardless of where we have lived. I have never experienced or seen the behavior that you apparently have.

Do you notice others been treated this way or only you?

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Margo


labrea_gw

I think we are reaching the can't take it after the long dish period of hot topic postings eh? Looking for respectability are yah?

Where would I even find this respectability ?,lol lol. What would I do with this new found respect anyway? Too funny! I prefer to be a Rodney Dangerfield ;P

Not fair to try and sneak comments like this after the fact.

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Ann

Respectability:) Heck, Kathy Griffin would seamlessly fit in with most of those on the left on HT. When I first saw that report, I thought, sounds just like HT!

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

The only roadkill I see locally are dogs and cats, and the occasional possum. Usually they're picked up by animal control quickly here, perhaps someone should suggest that they be held after a little bit of cleanup and offered as a source of protein to people.

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CindyMac(8b)





What a nasty, hateful comment.

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maifleur01

I have noticed people doing what loonlake described so it is not just there so it is not just their imagination as apparently some think. I remember once commenting about the amount of stuff because I was admiring the broad selection of fruits and veggies in front of me that I wished that I could have that many different veggies. With some of the comments on here my admiration could have been taken as a putdown. I did add that it was because things would rot before I could eat it.

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Ann

Just an honest observation Cindy. Have you read the comments about President Trump on HT? They are kind of hard to miss - just choose any thread and you'll have plenty of examples.

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Ann

Cindy, if you'd like, I could post some examples for you. It wouldn't take but a few minutes.

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purrmichigan(5)

I agree Cindy. But not unexpected.

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Ann

This is just from an hour ago. Would you like more?

Of course we've said nasty things about President Trump. He's an unfit, lying, vulgar, racist, incompetent, cruel, boorish, subversive, conspiratorial, obsessive, authoritarian, ignorant, amoral, dishonest, manipulative, misogynistic, philandering, hyper-litigious, isolationist, insecure, narcissistic protectionist, blowhard

It's hard not to say nasty things about such a nasty man.

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Margo

Ann- don't forget they were all dancing on Ailes grave.

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ann_t

Maifleur, I often get into conversations with other shoppers in grocery stores. But they are always pleasant. Have never seen the kind of snide or nasty comments that Loon has apparently experienced.

I would think that if Loon makes similar passive agressive comments on the contents of a mother's grocery cart.....

"I joked with the oldest kid that there must be a special occasion coming up"

like this one she made to a child, she should expect to receive a snarky response.



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azmom

"Respectability:) Heck, Kathy Griffin would seamlessly fit in with most of those on the left on HT. When I first saw that report, I thought, sounds just like HT!"

This is so Ann.

Yet on the Kathy Griffin thread, no any outrage posted from Trump supporters, they are all from left.

Then Margo claimed all the outrages from left are fake.

It shows when Trump is in trouble, how much support he would received from his supporters.

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SandyC.
And yet the "conservatives" are tickled pink 25 million children and elderly in nursing homes are going to be without healthcare, addiction services for middle class citizens will be cut and of course those nasty welfare queens that abuse food stamps will not be able to feed their families.
A stupid celebrity makes a disgusting tweet and it sets the bigots and senior Fox set off, but millions losing healthcare so billionaires get hundreds of billions in tax cuts is thrilling.
Such displaced anger and outrage is the norm from the people who now identify with the heartless, soulless, Republican Party.
Where was the outrage the past eight years as "conservatives" posted lynching memes of president Obama, one by a former HT member who has since either been banned or changed accounts.
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Margo

SandyC.

A stupid celebrity makes a disgusting tweet and it sets the bigots and senior Fox set off, but millions losing healthcare so billionaires get hundreds of billions in tax cuts is thrilling.
Such displaced anger and outrage is the norm from the people who now identify with the heartless, soulless, Republican Party.

Like I said on the Kathy Griffin thread - I think we are seeing Faux outrage from many on the left. SandyC does not seem very outraged tho. So not all.

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maifleur01

AnnT since the reference was to a box of cake mix I would never have considered it snarky. To a child having cake can be a special occasion. It would have been to me when I was a child. Only those that have cake all of the time would not think of it as being for a special occasion. May I suggest you rethink some priorities.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Ann-t, I make a smiling, innocuous attempt at conversation with a 10 year old trying to distract them from pushing and shoving -- and that is passive aggressive? Usually the attention of someone else makes kids at least try to behave for a moment!

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Kathy

Lol....Liberals are not allowed to be disgusted by something the RW thinks we like? That is how misinformed they are. They believe Faux news talking points instead of their own eyes....

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SandyC.
Kathy Griffin is a vile, comedienne, who pushes the boundaries.
Trump is POTUS, a position that used to be revered as the leader of the free world until now, who has screamed of Muslim bans, a Muslim registry, a stupid wall, defunding 25 million childrens and seniors healthcare to his minority base.
He is a stain on our nation. A bigot and a conspiracy theorist, who doesn't read, and gets his "news" from talk shows on prime time tv by non journalists, bigots and fellow conspiracy theorists, such as his buddy Hannity and judge Napolitano.
This is displaced outrage, over a stupid prank by a B list celebrity. Almost every celebrity and journalist has said it was a disgusting stunt , but Fox will run for the next few News cycles.
Just like the rape story by "illegals" they ran for weeks, until the charges were dropped.
They need to keep their base outraged over things that matter to the senior, white guys.
"Illegals", celebrities, entitlements , gun control, and every other liberal agenda that our now Republican Party of intolerant far far right wingers have become.
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ann_t

"So buying a cart full of pop tarts, sugary cereal, little Debbie cakes, chocolate milk, hot pockets, chicken nuggets, pizza rolls,and 4 kinds of chips is smart? The lady paying for this with her card had 3 boys under 10 years bouncing off the walls around her. I joked with the oldest kid that there must be a special occasion coming up, He replied, "no, just normal..." The mom glared at me, pulled out extra cash and got a carton of cigarettes... my tax dollars at work."

Maifleur, we must be referring to different posts. I don't see a reference to a cake mix. What I see, and I suspect the mother saw too, was someone checking out what she had in her cart and making a passive aggressive comment to a child, a cheap shot at the mother.

And if this is the kind of conversations that Loon strikes up in grocery stores, I'm not surprised if she is on the receiving end of nasty comments.

I've never noticed this type of behaviour from fellow shoppers.

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Ann

Sandy, I've noticed many of your comments in recent weeks specifically mention seniors when you speak of conservatives. Typically the comments are derogatory comments (toward white individuals also). I don't know your age, but I wonder if you have seniors in your family? What in your opinion is the age at which someone becomes a senior and do you think someone at that age or older should be criticized or ridiculed? I believe you've mentioned you are a nurse and typically work with babies. Have you ever worked with seniors (maybe in your nursing training)? Did you feel that, due to their advanced age, they should be ridiculed?

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purrmichigan(5)

I also never ever remark on a stranger's grocery cart. That's asking for a "jab".

I do say please and thank you and excuse me and sure, go right ahead at a shop. And I get the same returned. I think that's usually how good social relations works.

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azmom

Ann,

Please do not put your words in Sandy's mouth.

Sandy is living in reality instead of an alternative world.

She has been a strong advocator supporting, caring for the needed regardless their age.

If you ever paid attention you should remember her profession covers caring, saving and rescuing patients of all age group.

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ann_t

Ann, maybe you could share some examples of what you are referring to. I've not noticed Sandy making these kind of comments.

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jodik_gw

And... still, the disparagement of the poor continues. The glee to be had over this pastime just never gets old, I guess.

I was going to use the word pitiful, but I think pathetic sums it up better.

~~~

Once a person pays taxes, that money is no longer theirs... which is why it boggles the mind so to listen to the utterly selfish crow about how it is divided up and spent.

The truly caring person would be more upset that this country places a higher importance on weapons and military technology spending than it does on helping the least of its citizens rise out of poverty and gain a measure of independence and success.

~~~

Alcohol and tobacco products cannot be purchased with public assistance. It is an impossibility to use a LINK card for those or many other purchases... a few that should be allowed, like soap, toilet paper, and other necessities.

How a person pays for other habits they may have, and may have trouble stopping, should be of no concern to anyone else. Let's revisit the idea that once you pay taxes, that money no longer belongs to you. Let's also stop with the ridiculous assumptions that you know so much about every individual who utilizes public assistance that you can say with without doubt they're somehow committing fraud, because you don't know.

~~~

Does anyone have any idea how tiring it gets to witness this much self-righteousness and a sense of superiority over those persons who are less fortunate than you? It's exhausting to constantly defend programs that at any point in time, any one of you might need to utilize.

Just keep taking your status for granted... karma loves a good joke.

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Ann

Trump is POTUS, a position that used to be revered as the leader of the free world until now, who has screamed of Muslim bans, a Muslim registry, a stupid wall, defunding 25 million childrens and seniors healthcare to his minority base.
He is a stain on our nation.

They need to keep their base outraged over things that matter to the senior, white guys.

Actually, within the same comment you seem to be supportive of some seniors (hoping they have healthcare) and critical of others (white guys). So, maybe it's just white, male seniors you take issue with? Would you want those white male seniors to have access to health care also, or no?


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CindyMac(8b)

"Respectability:) Heck, Kathy Griffin would seamlessly fit in with
most of those on the left on HT. When I first saw that report, I
thought, sounds just like HT!"

This is so Ann.

Yet on the Kathy Griffin thread, no any outrage posted from Trump supporters, they are all from left.

Then Margo claimed all the outrages from left are fake.


Yes, they all show their true colors on a daily basis.

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

"And what if for worse allows a child to go hungry? Are you ok with that?"

At some point you have to give reasonably-normal, reasonably-functional people the freedom to succeed or fail, and let them be more than drones for government policies.

If someone is frequently failing their children or needs a lot of supervision to get through life, they have more problems than determining how to spend their SNAP benefits. They need to be closely monitored and strictly supervised.

People who neglect and abuse children are criminals. The children need to be removed from their care, but I don't know if tight SNAP rules are what is keeping a child from being neglected/abused.

I am hypothesizing that tight rules on SNAP purchases won't mitigate abuse and neglect, but it does infantilize users by presuming they are stupid and by disallowing discretion in decision making.

Lots of people insist that benefit recipients are no different than anyone else. If that's the case, there is no harm in letting them make more decisions with those benefits.

However, maybe that narrative is inaccurate or irrelevant. Maybe the vast majority of recipients aren't all that capable and competent despite the insistence that they are.

If rates of abuse and neglect correlate to SNAP (or other) benefits, I'm willing to reconsider. I'm not married to this idea, but am willing to try it and see how it goes, at least for some portion of recipients.

I do understand your point, though. It's a valid concern. There are people who would be completely unsuited for it.

There are people who are incapable of normal functioning due to profound mental or intellectual deficits. They should be closely supervised in pretty much everything they do.

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purrmichigan(5)

That's a lot of 'if's" and supposition. I don't know the income limits for receiving benefits but unless they're very low, I imagine people working even full time might be eligible. Knowing that full time in this country may well pay minimum wage.

As far as how the money is spent - I say, have your opinion but keep your judgment to yourself. When children are involved it's a whole community's responsibility. Just not a fellow shoppers.

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Ann

Just a few quotes from Sandy from separate recent comments of hers. It does appear to be primarily older white men that she takes issue with, rather than all seniors.

The Fox crowd have bought into the hate and bigotry.They don't read and are so biased they believe everything that is spoon fed to them, by the old white guys.

He appeals to the old white guys, who are intolerant and hate " liberals" lol.

Most people don't have the attention span to follow and Fox is an expert at deflecting with soap opera type conspiracies for the older set of retirees that don't care for facts.

Ailes targeted the 55- dead white guys and hired shock jock personalities to run their evening shows and keep the base enraged over something,

Many many people that did not vote for Trump are not left. They are centrist republicans or former republicans that will never call the GOP their party now they have succumbed to the alt right, and the intolerant evangelicals to increase their base, since the old white guys are losing their majority.


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labrea_gw

Thank You Sandy Alternate facts and guess what I saw in a shopping cart always trump the bad news bears.


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SandyC.
The Kaiser Foundation most recent studies on poverty found close to half, 45% of adults over 65 had income below twice the poverty threshold, higher among women, 3X higher among Hispanics, 2.5X higher among blacks.
The majority of poor people are children, but with our aging population, the poverty rate is highest among those over 85.
50% live in nursing homes.
43.5 million adult family caregivers are taking care of a family member over age 50.
Half of babies born last year, the mother's were on Medicaid.
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SandyC.
I have always taught my children, There, but for the grace of God go I.
They were taught to appreciate what we had, but also not to judge others. They were fortunate to come from a stable, two parent family, who were able to provide for them. They both were able to attend college debt free and pursue good careers. They know how lucky they are and have both given back to their community. Something I am very proud of.

Life happens, illness, addiction, unemployment.
Children are not able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, as a republican would believe.
Your health is your wealth, anyone living with a chronic disease will tell you.
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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

If you qualify for SNAP, fine. However SNAP funds should be used for healthier eating not a steady diet of junk. WIC has guidelines that do steer people into better food choices - perhaps if those guidelines were adopted for SNAP, our kids, seniors, and other recipients would have a better, more nutritious diet as the program intended.

Our grocery stores around here have WIC approved stickers next to all the shelf UPC codes that WIC covers.

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Margo

Loonlake- you make perfect sense, and that is why all the outrage is coming from the alt left.

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Kathy

Loon, it would be great if more Americans believed that...we wouldn't have so much COPD, Diabetes, Obesity, or mental illness from drugs, addictions, etc. running up the cost of healthcare....How is that any different? I agree they could make better choices but cutting off the food supply won't make that happen. I applaud Michelle O for trying to educate children about nutrition....they can then educate the parents....

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Margo

SandyC.

Your health is your wealth, anyone living with a chronic disease will tell you.

I guess this is such sage advice unless your are a SNAP card holder. Then the cart is acceptable to be filled with ding dongs and Twinkies?? Just cray!

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SandyC.
As I said upthread, many low income neighborhoods don't have affordable grocery stores. There are no farmers markets or fresh fruit in Inner cities, and many must take public transportation to buy their groceries. It's a problem for single moms caring for five or six kids and often easier to buy fast food. The fast food industry has taken advantage of these communities for decades, making kids addicted to sugary and salty fast food. Obesity, diabetes, is prevalent in young kids and of course adults.
Michelle Obama tried to institute her healthy foods initiative, but was pushed back by fast food industry.
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purrmichigan(5)

Now I know what "WIC" stands for! I've noticed it particularly in the cheese department. Cheese is fattening. It's good for calcium and not much else. I think I'll pay attention next time to what else is WIC approved.


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Kathy

And Michelle was mocked and made fun of for her initiative by many RW pundits saying she forced her menu on school children...how does that enforce good eating habits or even a civil society to make fun of her for trying to educate the children?

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purrmichigan(5)

And very recently an idiot post about school lunches showed a pretend healthy initiative tray with one or two items on it. And the next photo was pretended to be of Michelle Obama's tray - which was full. This from a poster who doesn't live in the U.S. and hates everything about it. Including Michelle's healthy foods initiative.

I've also heard parents who are outraged that their kids can't eat pizza at lunch. And thank God, there's a pizza place right outside the school, so they can rush out at 3 p.m. and get their junk food fill. One thing to have opposition to a program, it's another when it's just so willfully ignorant and stupid.

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SandyC.
Most of my babies were on WIC once they " graduated". WIC only covers pre natal, post partum women and children up to age 5.
Breast feeding and nutritional education are part of the WIC program.
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SandyC.
This is the old white guy party that wants to defund affordable birth control, for young poor women and men, the very segment of society that are the recipients of WIC and other entitlements. Most living in poverty are children and single mothers, besides the elderly.
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Kathy

I found it troubling when at the local grocery the formulas for babies were kept behind the counter like cigarettes because they are a expensive high theft item....several thoughts come to mind...are they expensive because WIC allows them? They are high theft so they are sold on the street....to who? Mothers? I really don't understand that...

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purrmichigan(5)

Of course she was mocked. People who think they are solely responsible for the achievements they've made also believe government should allow for children drinking caffeinated sugar laced beverages in school. Which is basically a drug.

It's the exact same type of person who hates Michelle and her initiative - they're the ones who are pointing at those who use food cards. Checking out their carts and commenting derisively. In other words, government should keep it's hands off of them, but please get involved in some "other" persons life. what BS.

You comment at your own peril - even if you had the very best intentions, there's this thing called boundaries. You also don't purposefully bump into another person and that's pretty much the same thing.

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purrmichigan(5)

Kathy, that could be destitute parents stealing baby food.

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Kathy

I am sure there are mothers who don't get WIC and still are low income and the formula is sky high....$25-30. In the south Bread and Milk are high in the most accessible stores in rural areas because a lot of people buy them with food stamps...that should be illegal. It can be 25-30 miles to a Walmart so the party stores clean up on those items....

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labrea_gw

Old Thread on Food stamp Fraud! I like links and facts with arrests tp go along with my Chicken Masala!




http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2849829/food-stamp-fraud?n=7


NY Has one Community Kyrias Joel which is the poorest in the State if not the nation and has a high percentage of snap recipients occasionally their are busts of the Huge families!

A year back in The Brooklyn Extension of that community!~

"Thirteen members of two extended families were taken into custody, accused of securing 20 mortgage loans totaling $20 million for properties. They are accused of vastly overstating their incomes and the amount of money in their bank accounts to obtain the loans, which then went into default.

The alleged ringleader, Irving Rubin, called himself a real estate developer. Also arrested were his sons, Yehuda and Joel Rubin, and Irving Rubin's brothers Abraham, Jacob and Samuel Rubin, and his wife Desiree.

"They alternately played the part of prince or pauper depending on which scam was being perpetrated," U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said at a news conference in the White Plains courthouse. "Regardless of whether they were posing as rich men or poor men, they were always con men."
As Paupers

Joel Rubin and his wife, Rivky, reportedly received Medicaid and food stamps by telling government agencies that they were homeless or earned income that totaled about $130 or $180 per week. They also received loans totaling $1 million by claiming her job earned her $12,000 per month.

According to the complaint, Yehuda Rubin and his wife, Rachel, also qualified for Medicaid and food stamps by saying their only income was a few hundred dollars a month. To get $1 million in loans, he listed his income from work and rents as $17,000 per month and she claimed $14,000 per month.


The Raids took place in Brooklyn & Kyrias Joel

A separate Case same town it's a teeny tiny place!

Welfare fraud sweep nabs 30 Orange County residents, 2 corporations in Kiryas Joel

I've posted a lot of these on here before usually get crap from the ususally!

Like I've said in the Past when its in The Billions for Banking fraud almost nothin ever1

CLUCK CLUcK CLUCK


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patriciae_gw(07)

I am making a challenge-next time any of you are in the grocery store( I am going Friday) try and see if you can tell what sort of payment the person in front of you is using for their groceries. I still haven't figured out how people know these days what sort of card the person is using. I want to know how it is done.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

You are standing 6 feet behind them in line. Even if they aren't holding on to it while waiting, you'll see the card when they stick their card in the machine, then you see the logos/images. Easy peasy. Normally the cashier also states XX.XX goes on your card and X.XX will be in cash.

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CindyMac(8b)

Why are you so vested in what other people do? You should practice minding your own business.

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purrmichigan(5)

Honestly, if anyone is looking that closely at a cashier transaction - that's just wrong. And I think if anyone tried that with me I would turn and stare them down.

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chase_gw

I never notice how people are paying for their groceries, except maybe for the littke old ladies with their little change purses.

However, I admit to noticing what people have in their carts......I find it interesting. Says so much about diet, dinner that night, life style......just interesting

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

When you' ve worked as a cashier, or in a bank, or in a credit/debit card center, you become attuned to transactions. Since I taught finance and home ec type classes for years, I can do the math pretty automatically. Am I snooping? No, I am just observing what is going on around me.

By the way, I have never had any rude remarks aimed my way when I initiate chit chat in lines. Most people start up conversations with me. The few rude ones out there are normally people stuck in line like the rest of us. Since I shop in bulk, those coming on to grab a few items seem to be the rude ones. I normally wave them ahead of me, so I'm not slowing them down while I unload.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

People must think I'm weird because my grocery shopping is divided between Trader Joe's, farmers markets, and the food co-op. At TJ's they must wonder why there are never fruits and vegetables (except organic blueberries) in my cart.


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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

Chase, the cart contents might say something, but not be an accurate assessment. If someone sees my Costco cart, I'm a carnivore. If they view my Sprouts or Ranch Market cart, most to all items are vegetables and fruits. The grocery chain cart will not have much in the way of fruits, vegetables or meats inside, so would you assume those items were not a large part of our diet?

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CindyMac(8b)

Chit chatting is not the same as staring down a financial transaction.

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chase_gw

I'm not making an assesment and certainly not judging........I said I find it interesting......and I do

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

I was just explaining that my individual carts does not really "Says so much about diet, dinner that night, life style......"

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labrea_gw

I worked finance for years too I look at jewelry even though I'm a man.

Because I also worked in Real Estate people always dressed down but a turned in engagement ring would eventually reveal itself and tell it's tale. I worked high end1

Declined cards at my last job generally meant they were tourists from Venezuela's. I get it. I judge everyone & every thing it's usually not a cognitive effort more as you say a summation! Pretty blue eyes ugly dress (casual observation bratty kids loud friends I think they've been drinking??? All those kinds of things

I have also been on this forum for years and this kind of story comes up and generally goes the way it has just another observation plus I read a lot of your old posts on other forums just seems to be part of your character like mine to include a lot of personal stories.

Yet there is almost a lingering passive aggressive element to them as min are aggressive aggressive brash & hostile.

Just a matter of style again!


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maifleur01

Kathy I noticed your earlier comment about COPD. I am so glad that a reason for it has been found. Now can you direct me to that reason. Last I heard it was like some other diseases in that the doctors and researchers know what it is but not what causes it.

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chase_gw

Gyr.....you may be surprised how much it does.....but in interesting ways. For example regardless of the shopping venue , yeast and whole wheat or unbleached flour says something.

If you look in my cart super bowl weekend you would know I am having a Super Bowl party. .

I guarantee I can tell from their carts who is having the grand kids down for Spring Break.......food talks to our lives

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purrmichigan(5)

See, this is why your original post had me skeptical. People either "jab" you or as you're saying above, there's no problem looking at what card, cash or check they use.

Chatting with someone for the purpose of covering up wanting to know how they pay for their groceries is gross! Just NOYB. Why is that a problem to understand? Look it up in an etiquette book if you need to. Basic manners. Basic respecting of personal boundaries.

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Kathy

There may be multiple reasons for COPD but the main cause is smoking

http://www.webmd.com/lung/copd/what-causes-copd#1

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Sylvia Gordon

"Am I snooping?" Yes.

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Kathy

I want to clarify, I have no problem with health insurance paying for any disease...self caused or not....that is not my beef. I also don't think we need to judge who is using WIC or Snap.

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maifleur01

Never smoked nor have a lot of people that have COPD and your doctor will tell you that it might contribute but they do not know the cause. Was it the wood stove that I grew up with? The time the air conditioner broke and filled the office with fumes? Was it because I worked during the time the air conditioner broke in what is not classified as a sick building. I am sick of people saying that because I smoked I have COPD. It is like saying that because you at a strawberry at one time in your life you develop cancer. Stop it with the smoking crap.

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patriciae_gw(07)

My problem is I tried to see the card of the person in front of me last time I shopped in a regular grocery store (my staples come from Costco) and I could not. I couldn't see the card at all. I tried and ask my DH if he could see and he couldn't. I have done this in the past then forgotten about it. If I keep looking will I eventually learn to distinguish a Snap card? I don't think so because I can only tell the person is using a card. I cant see the color. I do remember people using food stamps and all the gymnastics that took...you would not want to be in line behind them if you had other things to do. It didn't occur to me at the time to check out what they were buying.

Math. If you get $ 1.40 more or less per person for a meal would you spend $.75 on an apple or a box of generic Mac and cheese? If your child was a young boy the apple is not going to do the job but the mac and cheese will fill him up for a little while. This is the decision that moms have to make. Top Ramen or salad? Which goes farther? Which keeps them satisfied longer?

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maifleur01

If you think my comments about COPD are silly they are true and quickly brought out the smoking shaming. Similar to the food shaming on many of the posts on here today.

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purrmichigan(5)

I think the majority of us have had to budget with our groceries. I imagine it's very strict budgeting with a family. It's OT but a greatly reduced food budget means cheaper food and less fresh much less organic.

I don't see your "problem" at all! If you're dying to know what the card looks like do a non-invasive google search.

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Kathy

Maifluer....I wasn't shaming smokers....my point was no one is innocent enough to shame someone else...

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maifleur01

Kathy reverse that. You were shaming people with COPD because they were smokers.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Puremichigan...I do not want to tell people on snap what they can and cant buy. My interest is only because people who do tell us they don't approve of what people are buying. I have tried to see if I can tell what sort of card-I don't care what they are buying of course- and I cant and I wonder how people who tell us they have noticed these people buying all sorts of junk food can tell what the card is. I think people on the various forms of welfare have enough problems without me judging their food choices let alone if I approve of them and think they deserve the food they are buying.

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elvis

I have always taught my children, There, but for the grace of God go I.
They were taught to appreciate what we had, but also not to judge others...

Do as I say, not as I do, huh Sandy? How did you manage to "teach" something you clearly do not understand, yourself?

I SOB Ann, as she is a die hard Fox brainwashed right wing Republican. The epitome of what our country's Republican Party has become.

He is a stain on our nation. A bigot and a conspiracy theorist, who doesn't read, and gets his "news" from talk shows on prime time tv by non journalists, bigots and fellow conspiracy theorists, such as his buddy Hannity and judge Napolitano.

Well, we get the idea. Teach on, Sandy (but don't let them read your posts here).

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Kathy

No I really wasn't...but I do know of smokers who shame people using Snap or of being fat...I eat junk...why should I judge what someone else eats or why they add to the costs of healthcare? I hope I am making myself clear...

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purrmichigan(5)

Live and let live. We've got other much more important things to figure out. ;-)

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Kathy

Maifluer....I will explain where I was coming from.....it was a personal experience....someone close to me was a smoker who contracted COPD. She was very thin because the medication causes loss of appetite. Every time I would visit she made fun of overweight people and the fact they were causing themself to get diabetes....I suppose that does seem judgemental on my part. We have had 3 people die of lung cancer in our family and a few more with COPD. Maybe I am biased...

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SandyC.
My grandmother and all eleven of her siblings had COPD, emphysema in particular. They were all smokers. It is a long, slow, way to die.
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labrea_gw

I sometimes ask people if products are any good at check outs! Our supermarkets terrible I do a lot of my shopping in Chinatown! The prices are about a third less than any chain market! Our local discount odd lot sells the same sardines for 99 cents that our supermarket sells for $1.79 what a $ buys in NYC is a lot less than it buys in other states on so called staples!

Im over weight I like to eat and was trained to be a conscious shopper as a Child! I'm a label reader!

i rarely buy anything on impulse

I usually buy bulk oatmeal & rice lentils beans rather than packaged ! I avoid the farmers market in NYC unless it's for herbs china towns produce is better!


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purrmichigan(5)

You reminded me labrea of what I do at the check-out as opposed to spying on other customers. I greet the cashier and we find something light to chat about. It's never the same conversation twice because it's usually a different person. I try to say something that'll make him/her laugh. And then I grab my bags and go.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Most of my conversations in line are like labrea's, "What"s that cheese like? How do you cook that meat? What do you make with all that XXXXX?" Normal curiosity questions. Often I get, "Wow, I'm coming to your house to eat _________!"

99% of people are pleasant. Just a couple get rude-and the cashiers normally have their number!

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patriciae_gw(07)

Loonlake-your original post said

" I can't tell you the amount of junk in carts paid for with SNAP cards!"

It sets a tone don't you think?

Now you are making this about you?

If a person doesn't appreciate or tolerate your snooping they have a problem. I see.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Nothing was made up at all. I just fleshed out the story (factually) because I perceived that some thought all I ever did was look for SNAP carts. As I said before, I observe my surroundings at a glance. We all do it, we just focus on different things. Some can see a typo super quick, some can scope out jewelry, others see shoes. I just don't happen to focus on those.

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ann_t

I agree, that we all observe our surroundings. I've just never found it necessary to zero in on someone's credit/debit card. But maybe that is only of interest to those that like to pass judgement on SNAP card users.

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CindyMac(8b)

What it boils down to is simple rudeness. Do you stand behind someone in the ATM line and look over their shoulder?

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purrmichigan(5)

99% of people are pleasant. Just a couple get rude-and the cashiers normally have their number!

People jab about how it must be nice to be able to buy so much meat, or fruits and veggies

I look in carts because I routinely pay for people's carts of food as my private pay it forward.

Something isn't ringing true. You either have a good experience at the shop or you get "jabbed".

You either look in carts because you often pay, or you look in the same way that other people look at jewelry.

All of this ^^^^^^ is eye-opening. Thankful that I've never had any of these experiences - someone offering to pay or someone stalking. MYOB. Get another hobby. btw you can train yourself to look at innocuous things. No excuse for being rude.

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Margo

Dear loonlake- please keep on doing what ever you do, it is your business, your life. The insane will only keep harping on your shopping style if it does not fit theirs. If only they could SNAP out of it!!

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labrea_gw

Cashiers have my number I bring them flowers from the garden which is right outside The Supermarket and I give them all a secular blessing'

I wish you a day free of crazies & cranks.

If I forget to say I'm old and cranky they wonder if I'm alright Those are my regulars from the Supermarket The Pharmacy and Pet smart!

I can say it in Chinese but I always say Thank you in Mandarin when in China own or in Korean at The corner store gomabseubnida sounds like gum somi die

They all get the same I wish you a day free of crazies & cranks!

Trolls on here bitched about the nanny state and they have their own nanny cluck clucks

Keep on Trucking loonlake good luck with your food allergies




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rob333 (zone 7a)

Food police. Oy. What's next?

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elvis

All of this ^^^^^^ is eye-opening. Thankful that I've never had any of these experiences - someone offering to pay or someone stalking. MYOB. Get another hobby. btw you can train yourself to look at innocuous things. No excuse for being rude.

Yikes, a person with that creepy attitude wouldn't last long in a small town, where we tend to care for each other. Not to worry though, even after a few rude rebukes, we would no doubt still stop and help you when you're stranded out in the country. With no cell phone reception...

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purrmichigan(5)

Nuance, elvis. I get it's not your thing.

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jodik_gw

Need I remind everyone, yet again, that once you've paid your taxes, that money no longer belongs to you?

At that point, it's not your money to divvy up to those you feel are deserving and leave out those you feel are not.

Each state will decide, based upon their own rules, who is qualified to receive public assistance benefits, how much they qualify for, and who is not qualified to receive help.

I'm thinking some of you are in the wrong businesses or professions; you should have applied to be personal shoppers for the less fortunate. Surely, such a thing must exist, what with so much judgment being thrown around and so much superiority shown.

Since the taxes you pay no longer belong to you once you pay them, why do you care so damn much who buys what? Is it a personal mission in life to make sure everyone who needs assistance is properly shamed, or something? Can't you sleep at night knowing a day went by in which you didn't get to search a shopping cart, and point a finger at someone you feel is lesser than you, or something?

I swear.

~~~

Honestly, I don't care if a person buys steak and lobster with their LINK card. For all I know, they're celebrating a once in a lifetime anniversary, or some other special occasion. What if that person has stage 4 cancer or some other fatal illness, and it's more of a last meal? How would you feel then?

And how do I know that the items bought one week are the same items chosen the next week? I don't. That's why I never make assumptions about what other people are doing with the benefits they obviously qualified for.

For the short amount of time we used the same system, there were definitely times I threw a few treats for the kids into the cart. Why should they have to suffer just because we couldn't make ends meet?

It's a crying shame some people want to treat the less fortunate like a pariah, a total drag on the country... when it's the fault of others that our wages can't begin to compete with the cost of living... or when circumstances align that place a completely unexpected burden upon a family and they need help! Accidents happen, illnesses happen, and other unexpected changes can and do affect lives.

If it were up to some of you, there'd still be debtor's prison... privately owned solely for the purpose of profit, of course... and some of you would be lined up for a chance to throw rotten vegetables at the inmates, or maybe whip them with a hefty leather quirt! Hell, why don't we bring back stocks to the village square so the poor can be properly and publicly disgraced?! I get the distinct feeling that would make some of you very happy.

The animosity for the less fortunate just oozes out of some posts. It's positively disgusting, the way in which some would treat their fellow human beings!

SMH in utter repulsion.

How many times do we have to revisit this same subject matter? My gag reflex can only take so much. Isn't it enough that we already know how some of you feel?


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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

PM see.s to want me to MYOB and stop my "hobby", No, I will continue to give out gift cards and pay for other's food. No one has ever turned it down - if they feel they don't deserve/want it, they can pay it forward to someone else. Once they get it, it is to do what they wish.

Food for the needy is my "hobby." My husband's is car care for widows and single moms.

I just wish SNAP would limit junk purchases. Contrary to jodik's thoughts, I still have input on how my taxes are spent, and I let my representatives know. I'm certain many of you may feel the same way about school or military spending...

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purrmichigan(5)

Giving gift cards is entirely different than stalking. imo you seem to feel entitled to stalk because you give the cards.

People should give w/o needing to get anything back.

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Margo

Seems Saul Alinsky has set the rules for many on the left. #13 has stood out;)

"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

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Jmc101

"It's a crying shame some people want to treat the less fortunate like a pariah, a total drag on the country... when it's the fault of others that our wages can't begin to compete with the cost of living... or when circumstances align that place a completely unexpected burden upon a family and they need help! Accidents happen, illnesses happen, and other unexpected changes can and do affect lives."


YOU were doomed to your life long before that car accident. Quit blaming everyone else for your lot in life. How about taking ownership of the facts that YOU chose to stop your education, YOU chose your life style, YOU chose low paying jobs, YOU said here that you were too old for more education. YOU made choices that are IN NO WAY the fault of others. Get honest and own your life.

All of us make choices. All choices have potential outcomes. All of us have the free will to make those choices and, if we are honest, we must take ownership of our part in the outcomes. USing SNAP for anything other than a very short time is a result of choices.

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ann_t

"Once they get it, it is to do what they wish."

Exactly. Your words. You should remember them the next time you are judging the contents of someone's grocery cart.

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Kathy

So the Reps have chosen Putin as their mentor it seems....

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Ann_ t

It's once they get my personal donation that I freely gave to them because I thought they needed it and were making smart choices. I still reserve the right to protest the wasteful spending of my assessed and paid taxes as a voting tax payer. If I no longer have that right in this case, then no one should care how the government spends any of our taxes.

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Margo

loonlake, it makes so much sense to me what you are saying. Hang in there with rationality!

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jodik_gw

See, Puremichigan? What'd I tell ya? And yet another of my illustrious fan club rises out of the mists to throw offal at me, completely oblivious to the actual meaning behind my words, and apparently comfortable enough in her personal knowledge of my life... though she knows me not... to make assumptions based upon absolutely nothing but a jumble of her own interpretations of a few anecdotal stories told over the course of many years. It just never ceases to amaze me.

What she doesn't realize is that the time frame she assumes, she has totally incorrect. But we'll let her have her little paroxysm, since it makes her so happy.

Where she truly failed, though, was in assuming that I collect any benefit, at all... because I don't... even though I am well beyond qualified, and entitled to collect quite a chunk from those taxpayers, whether of generous bent or not. Of little cash, I am still cash pay.

She also assumes I was never educated beyond the requirement, though I graduated from trade school. I don't mention it often, though, as it's not a profession I remain in and not pertinent to any of the discussions within this forum. I've also been trained in other professional areas, but again, it's not pertinent and there's no need to brag about skill sets or professions.

She also wrongly assumes that I've never held a job that payed much, though I do believe I've mentioned more than a time or two that I've owned successful businesses, and have had more than enough cash and all the toys one can have when that success is lucrative.

But the biggest fail is in her understanding of how I've learned to measure success in my life as the years have gone by. There is more than one way to measure most things, as some people know.

I've never NOT taken responsibility for my choices in life... and in fact, in spite of the hand I've been dealt, both through genetic illness and at the fault of an irresponsible driver, I still manage to make the most of each and every day, knowing how quickly the hands of time run the clock's dial.

Unlike some, I don't consider not having pockets full of cash to be a negative. The more one has, the more one wants or needs. And that's just not my style. That's not success in my book.

Success, to my way of thinking, is being truly happy and content in one's life, and finding the perfect partner to share that with. Success is knowing one has the wherewithal to help others, and doing so without expectation of payment in return. Success is when karma comes around and gives one what they once gave another.

When I can stand with cool, green grass between my toes, the scent of roses tickling my nostrils, the sound of song birds trilling in my ears, the sight of young goats I've raised from infancy grazing peacefully nearby, not have a dollar in my pocket and still be so happy I can actually feel it filling my chest near to bursting, I know I'm successful.

What more can one possibly need or want besides a roof overhead, food in one's belly, and the love of family and a tight circle of friends to fill one's life? Not a thing.

~~~

Actually, there is one thing I'd like... and that would be for some people to pay a little more attention to what another has said... so that, before they begin their screeds, they'd actually know what it is they're talking about. That, in my book, would make them appear more successful.

~~~

But getting back to the original subject of this thread...

I'd not expect anyone to have to judge another for their choices in life... even a poor choice that may have seemed legitimate and a good idea at the time, that may have led to loss of the ability to provide for family without a bit of assistance.

Mine is not to judge another's choices or lot in life. My moral obligation is to help whenever or wherever I can, no strings attached. What goes around does come around.

I seem to recall, from earlier teachings: "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

And even though I do not believe, I still think some of the lessons are good ones to remember and put into practice.

So, I don't go around peeping into shopping carts, worried that a penny or two of the taxes I paid might be used by a qualified recipient to purchase something someone else wouldn't approve of. It seems like a total waste of time to me, and doesn't seem the right thing to do.

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soupgirl53

Jodik, that was a dignified response to an appalling post.

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Nothing Left to Say

soupgirl53, I agree with you. Jmc101, that was an appallingly rude post.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Jodik, I agree jmc101 seemed harsh. I like your description of success.

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elvis

Based upon my reading of HT over the past several years, I would say that JMC took her cue from Jodik's own writings on HT.

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eosinophil

I have to say, I'm confused by this story on two fronts. (well, three or maybe more - i pay no attention the the items others choose, would find it odd if anyone commented on my choices ("how is that dandruff shampoo working out") and do not have nor do I want to have any idea how anyone pays for anything - it's NONE of my business.)


First: the OP states she has used food stamps in the past and been hassled for it. Despite that history, which one might assume would drive some empathy, she instead chose to confront the blameless child on the contents of the cart. Given that the child was conversant, it seems likely that the child was wholly aware of the fact that purchases were being made with food stamps. Why, why, why WHY would anyone, especially someone with a similar history, do something bound to cause that child pain. How embarrassed is he/ she that mom is paying with food stamps? How guilty does that kid feel about buying food with "other people's" money? How could anyone, let alone someone who has been in that situation, choose to shame a kid - who has no choice in his/her financial situation, that they are poor. And I cannot imagine any interpretation of that passive aggressive remark to a CHILD other than judgmental. I've never been on food stamps or anything like that. I don't have any idea how anyone pays for their groceries. I don't have kids. And I can still see how AWFUL it would be for a kid to have an adult judge their situation like that.


Second: OP states that she/he (when he/she identifies worthy candidates) pays for the groceries of others. How does that work? I assume one must be in line with them to gauge their worthiness of the charitable recipient. If OP is in line in front, does the OP hang around (kind of creepy) until the recipient has been checked through and then swoop in (creepily, since she/he is still standing there by the bagger apparently monitoring the purchases) and pay the bill? Does he/she follow the needy orphan through the store and pay when the poor beggar is counting the pennies in his/her ratty change purse? How does OP know they are needy and not just poorly dressed (i would fit in that category). i would find it pretty darn creepy if some person decided to pay for my groceries because I'd worn barn clothes to the grocery store! Or has OP told the checkout clerks to ascertain the moral fiber of "those poor people" and given her credit card to cover the costs for their appropriate purchases? I assume that would be oxtails and oatmeal. No tampons - rags are good enough for you! The tale, as presented, is simply not believable.


All I know is that I hope that my tax dollars help people rather than build bombs. I am fortunate in my financial situation. If I can contribute a bit more to help others, heck, I'm thrilled to do so. It makes me sad that others don't feel the same.



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purrmichigan(5)

100% agree.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Now that I'm home, I can catch up on this thread -- and am surprised at the imaginative scenarios that ya'll have woven together!

I live in Fargo ND and shop in stores in both MN and ND. Fargo may be the biggest city between Minneapolis and Spokane, but it still is a friendly place overall. If you shop in the same set of stores, the cashiers and managers get to know you. My in-laws were in the grocery business for decades, so they know me. As I shop, there must be something special about me, because people are always coming up to me to ask where to find this, or how to make that. Guys are great at asking about ingredients for holiday meals. I must be starting to look grandmotherly!

1st of all, I was on food stamps once, but I never said I was hassled for it. I was not -- I was complimented on how frugally I used them. 2nd, I in no way shamed that child when I joked that there must be a special occasion coming up. I was trying to engage him long enough to distract him from tossing his brother through the endcap display! There was no mention of how their stuff was being paid for. I think he was surprised an adult other than his parent was talking to him! The three kids did settle down a bit...

3rd, I hand out cards often -- mainly to those I see shopping for staples and keeping track of their totals -- that signals to me they are actively on a budget. Sometimes kids are asking for basic stuff and the parent just has to tell them "not this time." Frankly you'd be surprised how many people have cash in cash wandering around trying to figure out what they can get for $X.00`. Other times there are senior home buses which stop at the store and the residents do their weekly shopping on senior discount day. Lots of smiles there!

In 4 years, no one has ever refused a gift card. Sometimes someone will say they really don't need it, but I just tell them to widen the circle of giving and pass it on to anyone they see that could use it. That usually makes them stop and think and smile -- and I say, "See, the good will is already spreading -- have a great day!"

Paying at the cashier? There are people who have their regular debit or snap cards decline, and they really are embarrassed. I'll step forward and say, "Let me take care of that today, you can pass it on some other time." If someone is paying with cash or small change, I've picked up the bill. Sometimes, if I am ahead of them, I'll turn around and hand them a gift card and say, "Here, can you use the remainder of this card for me? I won't be using it before it expires...(and I won't be because it was meant to be given away.) Or I'll just leave a $50.00 card with the trusted cashier who just checked me out and I motion to them to apply it to the person behind me -- who probably won't be checked out totally before I am already out of the store.

Am I "stalking them or hanging around? We often have 4-5 in a line, and you see what is in front and behind you (even the next lanes over.) Hey, I could be still bagging my own groceries (we have twin check-out conveyor belts where I do most of my shopping.) If it's real food they have in hand-- sure I'll help them out. If its nothing but junk, well then they must be able to afford to pay their own.

Finally, I have a couple of cashier friends that I have given cards so they can help others out a bit. They know who could use a little extra -- they know their customers. When I see them again I ask if they need more -- and they will tell me bits about sunshine they spread around. (I know the store owner/managers and I know the cashiers are under surveillance -- so the managers see the cashiers use the cards to pay off the extra shortages on various bills -- like having extra coupons at the till when you forget your circular.)

I'll keep Paying it Forward no matter what negative comments some on here have made. Believe me, in real life people are happy to be helped or treated special. Most people that get the cards I never see again. A couple have recognized me later and told me how much it meant to them. I wish everyone in life would Pay it Forward. That doesn't mean I think the SNAP program should be spent on lots of junk food!



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sheesh(5b)

Interesting. It's as if you think you are the only person here who regularly goes shopping. I'm nearly 70 and have shopped for my large family for nearly 50 years, yet maybe once or twice have I seen anything remotely like what you've been describing, as frequently as you do.

I've lived in Chicago and its low rent suburbs and am currently living in a small town in SE Wisconsin. Very friendly town and I too know many of the clerks, but I've never seen anything like you have. The closest I've ever come was the day my loaf of French bread went through on the previous person's bill. He picked it up, said to me, "This isn't mine. Is it yours?" The cashier said "Oops, I'll refund your money!" The man said "Nah. I'll buy the lady a loaf of bread today." How nice that was!


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purrmichigan(5)

Nope, me neither. Interesting ....

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Margo

We get it PM, no one likes to talk to you at the grocery stores. Probably the aura being emitted.

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elvis

Eosinopil wrote: "First: the OP states she has used food stamps in the past and been hassled for it."

No, he didn't. He wrote: "Hey, I was on food stamps once, and the grocer commented that he never saw someone squeeze out more food from them than I could!"

Eosinopil wrote: "Despite that history, which one might assume would drive some empathy, she instead chose to confront the blameless child on the contents of the cart. Given that the child was conversant, it seems likely that the child was wholly aware of the fact that purchases were being made with food stamps."

"...cart full of pop tarts, sugary cereal, little Debbie cakes, chocolate milk, hot pockets, chicken nuggets, pizza rolls,and 4 kinds of chips...I joked with the oldest kid that there must be a special occasion coming up, He replied, "no, just normal...And I cannot imagine any interpretation of that passive aggressive remark to a CHILD other than judgmental "

That's a confrontation? That's passive agressive? Maybe in California.

On the one hand, Eosinophil writes: "All I know is that I hope that my tax dollars help people rather than build bombs. I am fortunate in my financial situation. If I can contribute a bit more to help others, heck, I'm thrilled to do so. It makes me sad that others don't feel the same."

But she also admits: "I don't have any idea how anyone pays for their groceries. I don't have kids."

I respectfully submit that if you knew how difficult it can be for someone with little money to buy groceries, especially when they have children depending on them, you might appreciate a breath of fresh air like Loonlake coming along with a helping hand. You don't have to approve of his own personal brand of giving, but then, by your own words you don't have to: "I am fortunate in my financial situation."

"If I can contribute a bit more to help others, heck, I'm thrilled to do so."

Yes? How are you doing that, by paying your taxes? Congrats, Loonlake too, I'll bet.

And then some.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Thanks, Elvis, for pulling together those points. I appreciate the support.

Since yesterday, I've been researching what is actually being purchased with SNAP cards from USDA report and research sources. It is eye opening! It shows me where system efficiency can be improved.

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elvis

"Eye-opening". I'll bet!

Keep on keepin' on, Loonlake.

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jodik_gw

'Tis nothing I haven't run into before, nor is it likely to be the last time someone at HT thinks to offend me on a personal level. Having been a member of the site, and a contributor to this very forum for many years, it's simply something one grows used to when others utilize what are well known message board tactics the world wide web over.

And there will always be a minion or two that will agree in haste with those using rude tactics. Again, this is nothing new or unexpected.

Perhaps it's asking too much to expect a certain amount of reading comprehension and context to be utilized. Maybe that's where I err; my expectations are too high.

When one uses anecdotal information and experiences as examples to support one's opinions, I suppose it's much like handing out ammunition for those with a bone to pick to use against one.

Either way, it's not the insults that bother me; it's the incorrect use of anecdotes, lacking any context and comprehension.

~~~

In all the years I've been reading and posting within this forum, I am still at a loss to explain why this subject and others like it are so often chosen... and why anyone would want to shame or judge someone they don't even know in the first place.

And how exactly does one tell a deserving person or family from one who is not? Is there some distinguishable mark? Because if there is, it's something I'm not aware of.

I don't know... maybe I don't go shopping often enough. Maybe one must frequent grocery stores a lot more often than I do. Perhaps it takes a certain number of visits to be able to differentiate the deserving from the undeserving, or something.

Why would I care, first) what someone else is purchasing, and second) how they're paying for it? I don't make a habit of getting that involved in what strangers at a grocery store are doing... unless they're continually banging the backs of my ankles with their shopping carts.



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SandyC.
This thread reminds me of the Medicare fraud posts.
The welfare queen agenda is alive and well in right wing bigots minds.
The judgment and utter hateful bigotry.
Do they go to the military contractors and comb through what they are spending? Is there fraud, abuse?
It is easy to blame the poor, the underrepresented, the disenfranchised, mostly children and the elderly.
The GOP have become a soulless, heartless party, one I had voted for years ago, but never ever again.
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elvis

I don't make a habit of getting that involved in what strangers at a grocery store are doing... unless they're continually banging the backs of my ankles with their shopping carts.

Probably why you avoid grocery stores, yours sound like hostile territory.

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Margo

LOL elvis. I got a visual on that;))

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haydayhayday

If one is constantly accusing others of greed, would Karma welcome the accusations of sloth?

The Seven Deadlies:

" According to the standard list, they are pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth, which are also contrary to the seven virtues."

...

"(although greed, when viewed just by itself and discounting all the sins it might lead to, is generally thought be less serious than sloth)"

(I confess: I'm guilty of pride, lust, envy AND sloth. Not so much greed, (too much sloth), wrath takes too much energy and I'd rather dance than eat.)

Hay

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haydayhayday

I talk to just about anybody that's in my vicinity when I go shopping.

Random conversations. Fun.

In the grocery store, I'm always checking out other's grocery carts. Good way to find something to talk about with them.

I judge, too.

And you don't? (Oh, Hay, you just cracked yourself up with that comment!)

"And you don't?"

Funny.

"And you don't?"

Oh, that will keep me laughing all day long!

Hay

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

There is no public shaming - No mention of fraud - No wish to stop benefits. Where do some of you come up with this from my comments? I'm just purporting that the SNAP program be better modified so that it will accomplish it's goal -- to be a supplemental nutrition program.



SNAP food typically purchased

Buried in the USDA website is a 2016 published study on food typically purchased in SNAP and non-SNAP households. They used POS data purchases from a time period in 2011 from a major (unnamed) grocery retailer. They monitored and categorized 1000 different food categories, them combined similar item groups. In summary, they reported (Direct quote form report)

1. About 40 cents of every food purchase dollar was spent on basic items like meat, fruits, vegetables, milk, eggs, and bread.

2. Another 20 cents was spent on sweetened drinks, desserts, salty snacks, candy, and sugar.

3. The remaining 40 cents was spent on a variety of items such as cereal, prepared foods, other dairy products, rice, beans, and other cooking ingredients.

Interestingly, the #1 food item purchased by SNAP households was - Soft drinks! (5.44% of total food purchases). Fluid milk products were a distant second at only 3.85% of total household spending. That's 40% more soft drinks than milk!

My thoughts are that if this program is supposed to be a nutritional supplemental plan, why shouldn't at least most of category #2 above be restricted -- thus allowing for more money to be spent on demonstrably healthier products? It is tax payer dollars being spent and people still have a lot of flexibility in good food choices. (Please note that there is even a lot of leeway in category #3 for junky foods, but let's leave them all in.)



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elvis

NO ONE should be drinking soda, that's just crazy.

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patriciae_gw(07)

If you check their website you will discover for yourself that Snap doesn't limit food choices because it would cost so much money to do so that fewer people would get food. The cost benefit isn't there. It is that simple.


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purrmichigan(5)

NO ONE should be drinking soda, that's just crazy.

Again with the government overreach. NO ONE?? They're crazy if they do??

Either be a RWinger who doesn't want government interference or admit you only want it when it applies to someone else and to something you think is "crazy"

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war garden

If want snap people spending the money efficiently why not set up buyers club that buys healthy food for poor in bulk. With there snap dollars.

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Ziemia(6a)

That study says across all (SNAP and not) households the biggest expenditure was soft drinks. For SNAP spending folks it was 5%. For non 4%. Study year 2011.

It seems to include food purchased with money along with SNAP in the SNAP households.

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ann_t

I'll bet many of the same people that want to dictate what can be purchased with a SNAP card, are the same people that are anti choice, don't want transgenders to use the bathroom of their choice, and are against gay marriage. And voted for Dementia Don.

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purrmichigan(5)

I was just in my neighborhood grocery store and had a friendly chat with the guy at the deli and then with the cashier. I looked ahead to see if it was possible to inconspicuously check out how the person in front was paying. Hadn't noticed before that there's a tray at just the right height so that you cannot see the transaction.

My pharmacy has a sign that tells people to wait "here" to give the person being served their privacy.

This is a situation where this poster needs to have her privacy invaded before she gets it. Ordinarily, this is stuff you learn growing up. Manners and all that.

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elvis

I talk to just about anybody that's in my vicinity when I go shopping.

Random conversations. Fun.

In the grocery store, I'm always checking out other's grocery carts. Good way to find something to talk about with them.

I judge, too.

And you don't?

Ditto, Hay. In my town grocery shopping is practically a social event. We also greet each other and exchange pleasantries even when we don't know each other. Not just in the grocery store, either. Hardware store, garden center, Post Office, and the list just goes on and on. Lots of human networking going on up here.

It's crazy, I tell you. Probably an outrage, too.

Buncha wierdos!

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

PM, I was recently in the hospital for 5 days after major abdonimal surgery. I REALLY know what it is like to get my privacy invaded!

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rob333 (zone 7a)

When will the social regressivism end? Their personal agendas are so nauseating, I don't even want to eat. Who do they think they are? I wish they'd get followed around with all their sins hanging out. So holier than thou

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elvis

Who are you talking about, Rob? I thought you were a church lady.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

Anyone (even if it meant me) who thinks they should cast the first stone. Maybe they'd find the mercy and grace they obviously lack. Maybe they'd see it in a different light. I am not a church lady.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Whay are you talking about rob333? Please clarify.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

Social regressives want to be the moral mindset for everyone.

Regardless of right or wrong, one's choices/freewill/whatever you call it should be up to them. No one else. There is no good reason someone else should get a say on any American's life. We are a free land. Or should be! For everyone, not just some select few.

Time to get out of their bedrooms, kitchens, bodies, wherever else the regressives THINK they know better. Enough already. What's wrong with America has nothing to do with sex, or food, or choices they make differently than others. What's wrong, lacking , etc is understanding.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I agree we should live our lives as we like, however, when one freely signs up for a program aimed at providing good nutrition, some "rules" are necessary for the program to meet its objective.

If I signed up for a USDA program that was intended to increase the fertility and productivity of organic farmland, then took 20% of those funds to use pesticides on it, should I be able to? Would it be wise for the government to continue dispensing funds?

The SNAP program already restricts alcohol and tobacco products, also take out hot meals - is it wrong to?

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purrmichigan(5)

One signs up for a program, gets vetted, is given a card. Nowhere on the card does it say you must subject yourself to comments or supervision by a nosy public.

The point of the program is food. You do not get to choose what food someone eats. And your analogy is not valid. Not even close.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Never ever made a negative comment to anyone on SNAP. Any supervision should be built into the plan"s food categories allowed. That is what I am advocating.

My analogy is valid. There are many ways to organically farm. Just can't use non-organic means. Nutritious food choices are even more probable by using categories 1 & 3 above.

When you sign up for the program, you are agreeing to certain rules. Getting vetted simply verifies you meet the qualifications to receive the benefits.

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elvis

The analogy is perfectly valid. If the recipient suffers from poor health because of poor food choices, something that could possibly be alleviated or even prevented,it would seem we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

I think the government just wants to keep the masses quiet. Hungry people can be dangerous, so let them eat slop is what I'm hearing here.

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purrmichigan(5)

If the recipient suffers from poor health because of poor food choices, something that could possibly be alleviated or even prevented,it would seem we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

I think the government just wants to keep the masses quiet. Hungry people can be dangerous, so let them eat slop is what I'm hearing here.

How far you'll go for the clan, elvis. Leaps of logic, conspiracy theories about the government keeping the masses quiet?? Is this what small town life produces? You should get out in the wider world next time you decide to chat up someone in a shop. You know, hear something new and different. fgs.

Show me the rules that say precisely what food has to be bought with the card. I'd love to see your proof.

Your analogy about farming has ... what to do with food cards?? Not a thing. But your self-righteous attitude about the cards is paralleling with your refusal to see what a proper analogy is and what it isn't.

Let's see those rules.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

PM, Nothing HAS to be bought on SNAP. Currently you can buy anything in all 3 categories above. My contention is that items in category 2 should be restricted to improve the nutritional objectives of the program.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

As far as analogies go, both are government programs, both have defined positive objectives, both are voluntary programs, both use public funds and both have rules that need to be adhered to. I just think the SNAP program could be improved by limiting known "junk" foods.

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SandyC.
"The lady doth protest too much, me thinks."
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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

I had a discussion today with a woman who believes that if condoms were good enough birth control for her, then other women shouldn't care if they're limited to using condoms as well. Her husband was ok with wearing a condom, but that doesn't mean all men are or that other birth control options aren't necessary or better than condoms for the individual.

Birth control, SNAP, disability benefits - what works for you and what your choice is doesn't change the fact that you only get to make decisions for yourself regardless of your taxpaying status. It's an argument/issue about control.

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purrmichigan(5)

both use public funds and both have rules that need to be adhered to

I "just think" that people should stay within a certain weight range. After all, disease results from being overweight. Doesn't matter if you binge on celery, any overuse of a food will cause weight gain, especially on a sedentary lifestyle. So, I believe everyone should stay slim and exercise. But, there's no "rules" to enforce what I want.

Show us these rules you keep referring to.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

PM, I've already said participants can buy anything from the three categories above. I propose limiting category 2's "empty" calories. That would make the program meet higher nutrition standards and still allow great leeway for food.

Category 2 items include sweetened drinks, desserts, salty snacks, candy, sugar.

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Sylvia Gordon

Dont cha just love it when somebody says "I agree" and then without pausing for breath says "however"?

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jodik_gw

Of course it's about control. It's never been about anything else. It doesn't matter if we're talking about women's issues, lgbt issues, poverty issues, substance abuse issues, parenting issues, education issues, religious issues... you name it. It's all about having and using control.

Social regressives want to hold control over everything other people do... though, they don't want those same controlling rules to apply to them. It's the complete definition of hypocrisy.

Wherever there's something that makes them uncomfortable, something that could be controlled, they're right there... on the front lines... excoriating someone else's choice, and in the same breath advocating for smaller government. How does that work, exactly... I ask rhetorically? Again, the definition of hypocrisy.

~~~

I have never been an avid shopper. I don't particularly enjoy shopping... so, I prefer to make my list, get to the store, make my purchases, and get home. This doesn't leave or include a lot of time to make idle chatter with other shoppers, or snoop into other people's carts to either tsk tsk or approve their food choices... not that I'd ever want to participate in the latter.

Common courtesy and manners dictate that it's not my business what other people buy, or eat, or how they pay for it. I mind my own business while waiting in line.

I know what I prefer to eat, and what I refuse to eat... but each person, as an individual, has complete freedom of choice to stuff anything they like down their gullets... whether it's healthy or not.

Who am I to tell someone else that they can't drink soda or eat chips and candy? I prefer not to drink soda, and I'm not a fan of packaged snack foods, but that doesn't mean the next person can't choose exactly those things. It's called freedom of choice.

~~~

Gosh... talk about invasive! Stay out my shopping cart, as well as my uterus!





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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I don't care what anyone eats with their own resources. I do object to the government funding it - when it is the opposite of what the program is for. SNAP cards should be used for nutritious foods. That's what the program was designed for.

Regarding my personal funds I give away, I will reward those making smart nutritional choices.

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Sylvia Gordon

" I will reward those making smart nutritional choices." Who do you think you are, a first grade teacher handing out gold stars? You are a grown up person, as are the people standing in line at the supermarket. Assuming that you have the right to interfere in someone else's food choices is disrespectful, arrogant, high-handed, intrusive, and offensive. And as far as your tax dollars, give me your address and I'll send you back the $0.25 that came out of your taxes to pay for some poor person's food.

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Sylvia Gordon

Maybe a bit off the subject, but not really. This morning I read a Facebook post from a guy who had gone to the store late last night. He said the cashier looked frazzled. She looked defeated and tired and exhausted. When it came his turn, he said to her "so how has your day gone are you near the end of your shift?" She smiled at him and said yes thank goodness she was going home. So he asked her what her favorite candy was. She said it was Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. He was the last person in line, so he asked her to hold on a minute, sprinted back down the candy aisle, and brought a bag of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. After he paid for them, he handed them to her and told her to enjoy. He said her face was wreathed in smiles. She thanked him & said, "when I get off, I'm going to go home, prop up my feet, and enjoy these." That is kindness. That is generosity.

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Margo

Yes Sylvia, nice story, nice guy, He did it from HIS own pocket. Has nothing to do with SNAP cards.

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ann_t

"That is kindness. That is generosity."

It certainly is. And without any judgement or strings attached.

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Campanula UK Z8

Generally, real kindness and generosity is not trumpeted so loudly and virtuously. That which is, is sanctimonious, self-congratulatory back slapping and has no business being mentioned in the same breath as kindness or compassion. I wouldn't personally want a bent 2cent piece from someone as self-righteous and self-regarding as LoonLake...because it comes with a whole load of obligations which she/he seems to believe they are entitled to dish out. and demonstrates why state funding is needed rather than relying on the sporadic charity of petty tyrants.

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Sylvia Gordon

Margo can you possibly be missing the point? Loon Lake's "rewards" came from his/her own pocket as well. Good grief.

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Margo

Sylvia- I was talking to you about what you said. I was giving you my personal attention ;)

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

With the direction this post has taken, I understand why Grainlady left. Anyone know how to contact her? I miss her gentle, wise ways.

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Ziemia(6a)

who is grainlady?

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purrmichigan(5)

I figure the lack of understanding shown by the op despite the many explanations is why "the direction this post has taken".

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labrea_gw

there goes someone who hasn't had a grip in years doing her get a grip routine !

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labrea_gw

I can't believe this is till going on you gotta love them values!post about Exxon shredding and corporate welfare mum Been that way long as I been posting here!

Welfare queen 100 more post 2 billion fine for bank or drug company ho Hum! just got a new flock of the same old

you can make money turning people in it's like flagging!

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jodik_gw

I know... 260 comments on what people who utilize SNAP should be buying, because - after all, it's "my tax money".

It may seem a bit excessive... until one understands that this is only one in many threads on the very same issue, with the same mindsets of judgement versus empathy.

I never bet unless it's a sure thing, but I'd be willing to put down money on the fact that this won't be the last time this same subject is brought up for "debate"... as if it's perfectly normal to debate whether people are deserving of such judgement.


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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Just saw this & thought of this thread:


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labrea_gw

The desire to control what someone else eats might be a problem.

Yet I see calling empty calories nutrition a problem too!


Yet I also see the same people who mocked Michelle Obama & Mayor Bloomberg as Nanny Staters. Soooomany big gulp jokes.


She sees it all! One of my many register girlfriends I have a slew of them!

At The Koreans! I am known as Born Tired or tee o nassda.

In a pinch they are good for fresh herbs &Black and white cookies and great Fresh Flowers for last minute Birthday Gifts


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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

My original post:

In your opinion, and please state why you believe it, what should government SNAP cards be able to purchase? Do you think there should be limits, or carte Blanche?

I think they should be used for staples and low-processed foods. More bang for your buck, healthier, less junk.

I can't tell you the amount of junk in carts paid for with SNAP cards!

If the SNAP program is to improve a person's or family's nutrition, and according to the USDA's own research they find that 20% of the funds used are used to purchase "sweetened drinks, desserts, salty snacks, candy, and sugar." , wouldn't it be prudent to limit those items from purchase? The card already has limitations of no alcohol, tobacco products, hot take out food items, and non-food items. The current systems filters out the above categories now, so it can certainly filter category 2 items. Wouldn't 20% more grains, meat, dairy, fruits and vegetables be a better thing in most diets?

I am advocating improving a bent up program that currently has soft drinks as the number one "food" item purchased with a SNAP card (5.44% of total purchases-40% more than milk!) Leave categories 1 and 3 as is and you will improve the nutritional values for the people who need them immensely.

1. About 40 cents of every food purchase dollar was spent on basic items like meat, fruits, vegetables, milk, eggs, and bread.

2. Another 20 cents was spent on sweetened drinks, desserts, salty snacks, candy, and sugar.

3. The remaining 40 cents was spent on a variety of items such as cereal, prepared foods, other dairy products, rice, beans, and other cooking ingredients.



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labrea_gw

You'll have to fight with big business!

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jodik_gw

Not only that, the fight with big business, big ag, big everything... but is it really ours to say what others consume?

I believe carte blanche is the way to go. As a matter of fact, I believe SNAP should be expanded to include other necessities of non-food nature... like soaps, toilet tissue, feminine products, etc...

~~~

The opening salvo, or the idea behind this thread reads more like a scolding, a judgment. I'd like to know how it is some people personally know so much junk food and not enough "real" food is the result of presented SNAP benefits as payment?

Does it stem from one conversation in a store? Or do you work as a cashier and know this because you're the one taking the payments for the items purchased?

~~~

Let me remind you once again... once we pay our taxes, that money no longer belongs to us. We don't get to pick and choose who qualifies for public assistance benefits, nor do we get to make other peoples' choices for them.

Why would we want to, is my question?

How is it that this is chosen as such an important issue, when there are much bigger issues facing not only our country as a whole, but our planet and everyone on it?

~~~

Good one, Carol!

Yes, that's it, I say with sarcasm... it's the person paying with food stamps buying something someone else doesn't approve of that's the crux of all our problems as a nation! Good grief!




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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I wish to increase the SNAP program's nutritional impact and jodik wishes to dilute it. Got it.

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Margo

Just giving any government fund out with any conditions is like digging and finding fool's gold. Look at what happened with Katrina when they handed out those credit cards to people. Many bought drugs and booze. I know no one likes to think there is fraud abuse but the system is laden with it. There should be restrictions put in place to ensure proper usage.

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Kathy

I just know the RW is just as concerned about corporate welfare as they are the needy....https://youtu.be/jsqz0SqVKQQ

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labrea_gw

Trump wants to start charging stores to accept food stamps

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haydayhayday

"How is it that this is chosen as such an important issue, when there are much bigger issues facing not only our country as a whole, but our planet and everyone on it?"\

And here you are!

Funny.

Put down that mouse and go solve some of the bigger issues facing not only our country as a whole, but our planet and everyone on it.

You can be the heroine!!!

You can take the rest of the gang with you if you need help.

I see you have a lot of sour grapes in your cart.

Be careful, they'll give you a tummy ache.

Hay

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rob333 (zone 7a)

...credit cards to people. Many bought drugs... (Margo, before she deletes it)


You can buy drugs with credit cards? Wow. Thugs are really moving up in the world.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

The cards issued were debit cards, and they were used for all sorts of items -- but many blew thru them as cash advances or "cash outs" by buying gas for someone for $50.00 off card and getting $20-$30.00 in return...My coworkers saw this first hand after Katrina.

Those were dangerous days after the storm...

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purrmichigan(5)

So ... now you're going to micromanage the people who survived Katrina. As though you both know what's best. Walk a mile in their shoes before you have any knowledge of what and why things were done.


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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Why would I have wanted to do that? I was just stating what happened at the time because rob333 questioned the ability to use relief cards for drugs.

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SandyC.
I would not wish hunger on anyone.
You are correct, those were dangerous days after Katrina.
My daughter and some of her college friends from CA went there to volunteer.
They met a wonderful woman from CA, from the corporate world, who moved there and who started a food bank, no questions asked.
If people were hungry they got food.

The fraud issue, reminds me of the Medicare fraud threads.
The same right wing issues.
There are those who think because they are not getting part of the pie, those who are, most be "managed."
Again, I would not wish illness or poverty on anyone.
This issue of entitlement and who is worthy has been a mantra from Fox, the Kochs for a very long
Of course we hear the dog whistles of dugs and "Katrina" .
The government have definite requirements, for food stamps, the bulk going to seniors and children.
Many are on them a very short time, like the working class man who is struggling to work a part time minimum wage job, while looking for full time employment.

There are already limitations of what they can be used for, if you want them changed you will have to talk to your legislators.
This is such a narrow minded view of poverty and those receiving food stamps it is shameful.

Poor neighborhoods, don't have grocery stores on every corner, especially in highly populated urban neighborhoods, where there are same day check cashing and FF restaurants.
There is alcoholism, addiction, illness, disability, poverty and a high incidence of single parents, struggling to survive.

Food is only one of their daily struggles.
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labrea_gw

Give em bullets teach em to hunt!

Stray dogs Canadian geese make good eating feral cats soup & pigeons all those strays get euthanized every year perfectly good protein gone to waste. Barrels full of dead dogs available in nearly every city .

AN Immodest Proposal but it'

s not like I'm telling anyone to ask planned parenthood for anything

NYC slaughtered 400 Canadian Geese in Prospect park that's at least 1200 meals & maybe even so really greasy left overs

City Lots are filled with nutritious purslane & lambsquaters not cheap at the farmers market & stinging Nettle makes a dandy spring tonic I kid you not !

Foraging classes to supplement the missed greens!


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Ziemia(6a)

Sure glad no hard-working Americans cheat on their taxes. (If they did, would that be an example of fraud?)

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SandyC.
Like Trump???
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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Wondering how many people not on SNAP buy soda, chips & candy? Are such 'treats' only allowed for certain types of people?

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Look at what happened with Katrina when they handed out those credit cards to people. Many bought drugs and booze.


Amazing, drug dealers now take credit cards.


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Margo

Lena- loonlake had given some explanation on this. There are ways to get around the system.


loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

The cards issued were debit cards, and they were used for all sorts of items -- but many blew thru them as cash advances or "cash outs" by buying gas for someone for $50.00 off card and getting $20-$30.00 in return...My coworkers saw this first hand after Katrina.

Those were dangerous days after the storm...

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Margo

And it would not surprise me if drug dealers do not carry some square card under some bogus business to sell their drugs.

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labrea_gw

our city councilor showed up with a pledge of $250,000 for a fence for our community garden!

Would I appreciate the Fence Sure will our garden exist in 5 years doubtful! NYU has approval for a massive ammount of building all around us!

tax money waste personal opinion Yes ! Local political struggle oh yes !

once I pay taxes it's not my money And there are at least 20 opinions in our garden that say We deserve the fence!

Deserve(nah) earned oh yeah alliances and connections !

opponions are neutral ! The money will be spent or cut and there will be a lot of opinions around it. some folks even want there opinions to be blessed as correct that's a poll but in the end something gets flushed!

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labrea_gw

See it wouldnt surprise Margo ! Why I bet if she looked that up she'd find it too! gawd bless America land of opportunist & so much more!

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Margo

Thanks for the laugh labrea;)

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roxsol

NYC slaughtered 400 Canadian Geese in Prospect park that......

Canada Geese, Canada Geese....if they were in NY, then I think they were probably American.

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purrmichigan(5)

What underprivileged group, storm of the century ravaged people are next for your judgment and critique? "I wouldn't be surprised" does not equal a real thing happening. You're clearly trying very hard, though.

Carry on.



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Margo

Tool. Dull one to boot.

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Kathy

i think there is more waste of government money than a few poor people who abuse the system....

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youngquinn_gw

"once I pay taxes it's not my money" from Labrea


YESSS!!! truer words have never been spoken

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labrea_gw

Rox and the horse you road in on! CANADA GEESE other states that kill these as pests have given them to shelters to be used as food,

If people aren't going to spay or neuter why not serve up stray dog....oh there's that other sensitivity.

Oh Joe just stop that we just had a nice pet thread you don't really mean to serve up a pit bull platter do you?????

Shelters in some states Euthanize up to 400.000 animals every year.

If THYE can't take care of them then perhaps they should eat em.... THEY!

What argument could you have against that it GOOD PROTEIN and fiscally responsible

SOYLENT FIDO!

What's wrong with Horsemeat I've had it about 100,000 horses are shipped across the boarder for consumption every year!


Wasteful just wasteful??

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Margo


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lisaw2015 (ME)(5)

ummmm.....labrea is jk, right....?

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patriciae_gw(07)

Historical perspective-government food supports began as a method to prop up farming. Our government bought up surplus food stuffs, packaged it up and distributed it to the poor. Everyone got a box of pretty much the same stuff. When I was in college in the early 70's the remnants of the old Commodities program still existed. Some of the stuff like packaged whole grains were pretty weird. Your average person doesn't know what to do with a pound of wheat berries or whole oats. People in the country fed the grains to chickens and other livestock. People got canned meats of various sorts as in spam like stuff or canned chunks of chicken or what ever. Cheese-tons of cheese...people would give it away along with enormous quantities of peanut butter or trade it or sell it because you can only get through just so much processed cheese. All this packaging and shipping cost a lot of money so the program gradually evolved into a system of giving farmers money to not grow wheat and food stamps so people could purchase something other than peanut butter. And here we are. As I said above the reason they don't restrict food items is it would cost too much to over see the program. Grocery stores would have to have computer systems that would block thousands of products that would have to constantly update as new snack foods come on the market. Your mom and pop store would necessarily have to bow out unless the government sent them paper lists of what people couldn't buy which they would have to check. Not workable.

I will also point out that WIC would tend to skew any figures on household expenditures-to get a real picture of what people are buying you would have to include what people are spending their WIC money on-lot of milk you don't need to spend your SNAP dollars on and so on. Since Children are the primary beneficiaries of both programs and many of the SNAP kids are very young...figure it out.

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roxsol


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labrea_gw

Lisa it was a version an absurd one of The Modest Proposal Written long long ago! At the same time I decry waste ! So much food goes to waste do to lack of coordination of services!

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youngquinn_gw

you dont NEED animal protein anyway. Rice and beans are a good protein and cheap! chick peas...make them hummus!

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

@Roxsolid

I could have really used that recipe this past winter...stupid geese always honk-a-honk-a-honking outside. ;)

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SandyC.
We always have a few land in our pool in the winter.
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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

Between the 2am honk-a-honk-a-honking and the 3 performances of the coyote group serenades nightly, I say the coyotes should eat the geese. And then head to points north. ;)

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jodik_gw

"There are already limitations of what they can be used for, if you want them changed you will have to talk to your legislators.
This is such a narrow minded view of poverty and those receiving food stamps it is shameful.
"

You said it, Sandy!

~~~

How is it that so many republican-minded folks know exactly what the poor spend their money on... know without doubt it's the wrong thing... and want control over who is deserving and who is not?

Why would you want to micro-manage a program that works as it is, already?

~~~

Why is it so hard to understand that people who are poor also have morals?

This is such a small issue compared to everything else going on... who cares if someone else doesn't buy what you want them to?

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Margo

I guess there must be many Dems on SNAP cards, friends and family. They do not want their sweet tooth cut off.

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SandyC.
I personally could give a rats a** what political party a hungry person is. Half of our electorate don't even vote. The poor, hungry children and seniors in nursing homes, those living with disabilities, don't live and breath "politics".
They interviewed some low income people in one of Kushner's slum lord buildings. When they were told Jarod Kushner owned the building most of tenants had no idea who he was.
I know Faux News uses the welfare queen as a scapegoat, but honestly poor people don't have to give their political affiliation before they receive food.
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Ziemia(6a)

The food buying habits of those without and with SNAP are very similar. Info above.

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ann_t

"I guess there must be many Dems on SNAP cards, friends and family. They do not want their sweet tooth cut off."

Aren't their more republicans on welfare than Democrats?


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SandyC.
I heard a really good podcast on the food stamp program and how it has helped white working class men in red states that are underemployed.
It has helped bridge the gap, while men are trying to feed their families,,while working several part time jobs, and looking for full time employment. Many of them are on them for a short period of time.
They are also linked with other programs, that help to retrain workers and get back on their feet.
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Margo

Aren't their more republicans on welfare than Democrats?

Do you have a source for that?

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Just saw this report today:


Geese spoil Disneyland guests' day

& Puritanism is alive & well it seems:


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ann_t

"Do you have a source for that?"

A source for the question? Yes, Me.

If you don't know the answer just say so.

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elvis

Why would you want to micro-manage a program that works as it is, already?

~~~

Why is it so hard to understand that people who are poor also have morals?

It's not working, Jodik. Fighting hunger is certainly a worthy first step, but surely in a country as wealthy as the USA, we can do better. Make SNAP-Ed widely available and mandatory.

"SNAP-Ed is an evidence-based program that helps people lead healthier lives. SNAP-Ed teaches people using or eligible for SNAP about good nutrition and how to make their food dollars stretch further. SNAP-Ed participants also learn to be physically active.

SNAP-Ed works by building partnerships with all types of community organizations. Communities have social marketing campaigns, hold nutrition education classes, and improve their policies, systems, and the environment of the community. SNAP-Ed even addresses local issues like lead poisoning."

This has nothing to do with morals. Try common sense, education. Empty heads, empty calories. You want smarter, more motivated people, not brain-dead, malnourished ones.

SNAP-Ed

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dockside_gw

I have scrolled past the last half of the posts so may be repeating something someone has already written. But, like Elvis, sugar water, aka soft drinks, provide absolutely no nutritional value and are not good for anyone's health. I see no reason for them to be paid for by SNAP cards and it would be easy, I would think, to not include them. They are not food and have no nutritional value. Other than that, I see no reason to limit any actual food for SNAP cards.

Also, I have never, ever noticed what kind of cards people use to pay for groceries. Someone would have to be standing right next to the person paying to see them, instead of back by their groceries. If someone was that close that they could see the card I am using to pay, they certainly would get a stare-down from me.

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SandyC.
There are resources in place, they work with other agencies and outreach programs. That is what has been discussed. It is not up to the holier than thou in the grocery store lines to judge what recipients are eating.
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SandyC.
I find the hypocrisy amazing. Michelle Obama was vilified by the right. Government should not interfere in school lunches. Yet, we all know it was about lobbyists.
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ann_t

Imagine the uproar from soft drink industry lobbyists if they ban the use of SNAP cards for their products.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

There was considerable uproar on the political right @ the suggestion of a tax on soda in an effort to curb consumption; I can't be the only person remembering that...

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chase_gw

Not sure why the health and nutrition of poor children is "worthy" of strict controls but rich kids should be able to eat whatever they want.


Is the issue nutrition or ....dictating how the poor spend the more affluents tax dollars?

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

SInce SNAP is supposed to be a supplemental nutrition program, one would assume that the more nutritious foods should be subsidized. Empty calories should not be paid for at tax payer expense. Nutritious foods should be available for those that qualify with the present program.

Note, I have not advocated changing the eligibility standards, nor the amounts that participants are awarded. I am simply advocating that NUTRITIOUS foods be what is supplied.

The USDA's own research reports show that at least 20% of purchases are sodas, salty snacks, and sugary items, etc... If you are paying for your own food, I don't care what you buy. When you partake of a taxpayer subsidized program based on need, then some limits should apply. SNAP already limits alcohol, tobacco, and hot take out foods (normally more expensive than home cooked). The same "filters" could easily stop the purchase of sodas, candies, snack foods, and such. Hungry people will get more nutritious foods.

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ann_t

"Is the issue nutrition or ....dictating how the poor spend the more affluents tax dollars?"

You can bet it isn't "nutrition" that motivates some here.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Snap people aren't allowed to buy those store roasted chickens which are a very good value for the money-too salty for me but that isn't an issue for most people. Already cooked so you don't need an oven and barely more expensive than a raw whole bird and you can take the carcass when you have stripped the meat and make soup. This is dumb and that is why this nit picking doesn't really work. After working your shift for peanuts at the make the CEO rich Company you come home with very little time to cook anything and the kids end up with generic Mac and cheese and hotdogs.

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Kathy

So true, Patriciae...a lot of working people dont have a lot of time or energy left to cook meals from scratch..most of the people on SNAP aren't sitting at home all day...they are working min wage jobs. We are basically subsidizing their wages. It is funny the Reps never suggest paying them a living wage instead of cutting off their food...

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elvis

There are resources in place, they work with other agencies and outreach programs

Please elaborate. I believe that you are uninformed, Sandy.

Imagine the uproar from soft drink industry lobbyists if they ban the use of SNAP cards for their products.

Yes, imagine that, annt. Makes me smile.

Snap people aren't allowed to buy those store roasted chickens which are a very good value for the money-too salty for me but that isn't an issue for most people. Already cooked so you don't need an oven and barely more expensive than a raw whole bird and you can take the carcass when you have stripped the meat and make soup. This is dumb and that is why this nit picking doesn't really work.

I completely agree with this, Patricae. So, if the restriction against hot/prepared foods can/is enforced, how hard can it be to prohibit candy and soda.

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Margo

Margo

Aren't their more republicans on welfare than Democrats?

Do you have a source for that?

ann_t

"Do you have a source for that?"

A source for the question? Yes, Me.

If you don't know the answer just say so.

************************************************************************************

So, you are saying that YOU are the source that KNOWS that more republicans are on welfare than Democrats? WOW.... personal private knowledge??

I do not know the answer to the ratio of republicans to Democrats on welfare. Can YOU give me the statistics since it is YOU who is the source? Or are you just the source of a question that you can not stand behind? If you don't know the answer just say so.

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Kathy

This is an interesting analysis of how Food stamps help the economy

Many economists agree that food stamps trigger economic activity when poor people utilize their benefits, which more than makes up for the cost. Republicans, however, take the opposite approach; they believe tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires is what stimulates growth, all the while cutting programs that help the poorest in society.

When ranking what methods help the economy, economists say that food stamps rank among the top three, while tax cuts to the rich rank about 12th.

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SandyC.
Why would you be concerned what political party a poor person that needs help feeding their family is?
Believe me, I have worked with many needy families, politics is the absolutely last thing on their minds.
Somebody on another thread asked me how I liked my ACA plan. I think because I believe it is important our country provide affordable insurance for our sick with pre existing conditions, disabled and elderly that live below or just above the poverty level.
One in five households in our country are food insecure.
I have never been on food stamps or public assistance, but as a human being, I choose to vote to have my tax dollars go to those who need it.
I find it ridiculous, loonlake is continuing this judgmental narrative, because it is coming out of her taxes, she should have a say what they eat. NO, your legislators do that.
There are rules in place.
Do you choose what kind of bombs the military buy, or how many golf weekends Trump takes, having to take the WH staff with him?
Poor shaming is not becoming.
"There but for the grace of God, go I. "
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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Thinking about the store owners who might otherwise have less business...?

It's been proven time & again that subsidies to lower income folks get spent, while subsidies to rich folks get saved. That can keep the economy humming along, can't it?

Thinking about Dolly Levi's line: "Money, pardon the expression, is like manure. It's not worth a thing unless it's spread around."

Not to mention the kindness aspect.

It seems along the lines of universal guaranteed income that has been discussed here as well.

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Kathy

How many people could be fed with Maralago expenses? I agree Sandy about the Poor shaming....it is daily news on Fox...I heard it this morning...

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patriciae_gw(07)

My post about why seems to have not made it.

Try again.

The SNAP people looked into limiting choices and decided it cost too much to do this.

and this is why

Can SNAP recipients purchase saltine crackers? Salty snack or good nutrition

How about fish shaped crackers-expensive but still crackers which you would think of as good nutrition-or salty snacks?

Can they buy lobster? Very expensive but nutritious seafood?

Can they buy asparagus or maybe just green beans? One is expensive but good nutrition while the other is less expensive but also good nutrition. Does SNAP decide you can only buy cheap vegetables? How cheap do those vegetables have to be? Maybe only as cheap as cabbage? Can they afford Cauliflower or Broccoli? Why those instead of the cheaper Cabbage?

I could keep this up all day. SNAP decided it is not cost effective to limit peoples choices. Most people make reasonably good choices in spite of buying some pop for fun. No fun? You really ought to read Hard Times by Charles Dickens. This is not a new issue...Everyone wants Turtle Soup.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I am not poor shaming. I am advocating the program be changed.

I agree with Sandy, our legislators need to change the rules in order to limit nutritional waste.

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elvis

Don't be obtuse, Patricae. Soda and candy is pretty easy to sort out. Like booze.

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jodik_gw

331 posts... because it's so important not to miss the opportunity to point out who you think is undeserving, and to try to control what they do.

"Is the issue nutrition or ....dictating how the poor spend the more affluents tax dollars?"

It would appear to be the latter, Chase. Otherwise, they'd see the hypocrisy in not going after the FDA and others responsible for producing and allowing products that aren't nutritious to be sold to the public... ALL public... in the first place.

SMH...

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SandyC.
It's the same argument the far far right wing use on "illegals" taking US jobs.
Until US companies see a need to hire documented workers and pay living wages and benefits and until US citizens accept paying more for goods and services , scapegoating immigrant workers is their narrative.
It worked for Trump, it will continue for decades to come, just as it has for decades before.
The US construction industry, home builders, big agro, retail, fast food, hospitality , all rely on undocumented workers to keep prices low and PROFITS high.
Blaming a fruit picker who works from dawn until dusk in the hot sun doing a job no US citizen will do, is just one of many examples of the hypocrisy of this administration.
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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Sandy, what does your rant above have to do with inefficiencies of the supplemental nutrition program known as SNAP? A program currently designed to help the neediest people you claim the far right wing hates?

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SandyC.
Poor shaming.
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Margo

She rants for the sake of ranting.

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Margo

SandyC... do you remember you sofa shaming people on the design side?

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Tell me how we are poor shaming?

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