I think 50' rows are too long. Mine are shorter. I think longest is 30' which is my winter squash bed. Think of it this way, you are plant 12 broccoli plants but can't reach the other side of the bed. You either walk thru it or around it. I prefer around. No, I can't step over a 3' bed which is probably 4' after I edge it. Not as nimble as I used to be. Most of my rows are east/west but two new asparagus beds are north/south.

Check Craigslist for manure etc. Found a great deal on aged horse manure this year. Owner loaded PU truck for free. You might have a friend who piles grass clippings in a corner and doesn't use herbicides etc. A city friend gets leaf pickup but she doesn't finish raking until later so she carts it to a small patch of woods.

East to west, and if theres deers around chances are theres other critters around and you'll have an infestation of voles and mice depending on your mulch used.

2 foot spacing is too far apart for sandy soil. tighter the better for moisture control. Instead of mulching. plant edible ground cover crops in between rows. if walking a tight line is that much of an issue. Don't be fooled by the mulching hysteria. it can be a disaster if not carefully considered.

defrost49, thanks for the comments. I agree, the 50' row idea doesn't seem to good. While working on getting the area cleared I've tried to walk only on "imaginary paths" in the garden...clearing a 3' width is something I really don't wish to do on a regular basis. I had planned on cutting a path through the 50' paths at the halfway points and simply running my drip tape across that path...would water a little in the path, but not too much. But now the idea of shorter rows running N/S is tickling my brain....it would require a longer header pipe and more fittings and runs of drip tape which isn't out of the quesiton. The rows would end up being around 20' long. I'm planning roughly a 2' perimeter around the planted area to keep tilled in hopes of keeping the grass beat back. Running the beds in either direction will give me 600sqft of planting area.

I've been checking Craigslist, but nothing local...everything 50 or more miles away. As stated earlier, a big concern of mine is bringing in pesticide-tainted manures. I'll be asking around a bit as I know several farmers close by...hopefully I can find a source of clean manure locally...cow and chicken (I know chicken manure is hot) are the predominate manures that will be available. I'm also going to inquire about the city leaf composting. They pickup with a vacuum/shredder...again, I'm just not sure of what all is being sprayed...but, leaves are usually safe. We just had a major storm to hit our little town and lots of building debris I'm afraid ended up being gathered with the tree debris. But, I'll find out and maybe take a look at it.

FastInk, thanks for throwing your hat in the ring. you're really one of the first to recommend and east-west orientation. I'm curious as to your location. Seems the further south you go the less the orientation matters (or maybe I'm interpreting things wrong). As for critters, we've got an assortment of them...cats, possums, coons (few), coyotes, deer, armadillos, mice, deer, moles, crows, did I say deer?

As for the vole/mole attraction to mulch....what do you recommend for mulching that might not attract them so much?

It makes sense what you said about 2' being a lot of area to cover between rows. It's not written in stone that they have to be 2' wide, but that seemed like a doable width and even still seems a little cramped to me. But, the thought of coming up with enough mulch to cover that 2' width has been nagging me....I'll ponder the idea of narrowing them up a bit. Thanks for some prodding on that.

FastInk, what do you recommend for the edible mulch between the rows? I'd been thinking clover. And, if you have time, could you elaborate a bit on your take on mulching...it seems you have some cautionary thoughts about it.

Thanks again for the help and advice. I'm going to (hopefully) be working on the fence later today...maybe at least get it far enough along to energize it and start trying to give some deer shock therapy. ;) If I can get that done and still have time I'm going to see if the ground is dry enough from our recent rain for tilling. I might wait till Saturday and let it dry a little more...but rain comes back Sunday. Deer are attracted to fresh tilled earth so I want the fence charged before I till.

This next tilling will be the last before I form the rows and depending on how things work out it might be the last tilling and from here on out go "no-till". I'm not getting any younger and besides trying to walk a tight line between the rows and not wanting to step over wide rows, that tiller ain't getting any easier to run.

Ed

I grow in permanent 4' x 18' beds. The 18' is just what seems to work well. I didn't plan the length, I just tilled until I said... "That looks about right"... and it is lol.

I always orient my beds E - W, and I rotate crops to a different bed each year. My paths are 18" - 2' wide length wise (E - W), and 3' wide on the ends (N - S). I have no problem with taller crops shading shorter ones unless I make a mistake in each bed and put a plant in the wrong space - like I did when I mislabeled a few determinate tomatoes last year.

For me, the only reason I would do long rows is if I had a tractor and plow. I use a tiller to create the beds, then a digging fork to turn and amend each year.

If my beds ran N - S, I would have a much more difficult problem with planning out taller and shorter crops. The only thing that I run N - S is the line of sunflowers that borders my neighbor on the west.

PHEW!!!! I just came in for a break trying to shove that 8' ground rod into the ground. Using some water and just "jukin'it" up and down. I lack about 1-1/2' getting it down to ground level but the going is getting tougher!!! Hopefully I can get it down another six inches or so before I resort to a hammer. Man, I ain't young as I was the last time I sunk a ground rod!!!!!

rgreen48, do you grow in mounded beds or beds with sides/walls around them?

If I ran the beds N-S they would be roughly 20' long, probably lose a foot or so to the slope of the edge of the beds so they would probably be around the length of yours.

My 50' rows would really be two 25' rows (actually closer to probably 23-24') end-on-end with a 2' path between them. I'm planning on drip tape for watering and the arrangement of the header pipe and tape runs is something I am trying to figure out. I'm trying to keep that as simple as possible. With the rows E-W I could do two 50' runs per end-on-end bed/row. That would cause tape to cross the path that would divide the 50' beds in half. I just see a problem there of wear and tear on the tape...foot traffic, wheelbarrow, etc.,. Running the beds N-S would involve more fittings and more runs of tape but the tape would reside solely in the beds. Naturally there would still be the header pipe and tape connection at one end of the rows but it might be less congested that way.

Are you rotating your crops for any specific reason or for all of them...disease, fertilization, pests??? I'm still curious about crop rotation...seems like it can't hurt anything and maybe help with some things.

Do you mulch between your beds?

Thanks for the feedback!!!! ...now, I'm off to get the rest of that ground rod into the ground!!!!

Ed

My beds are 'mounded' - Well, they raise from the initial tilling of the clay-based soil and the amendments of compost and organic matter dug in each year.

I rotate to help avoid disease getting established in a bed - as well as issues of plant waste that may carry spores splashing onto leaves (not 100% effective... it's not like the beds are a mile apart lol, but every bit helps in my climate,) to confuse over-wintering pests (like flea beetles that would love an early start on my eggplants,) and to avoid specific nutrient depletion that comes from running the same crop over and over in one spot (this problem would be fairly easy to correct, and is unavoidable in very small gardens, but I have 13 beds now - and still expanding - so, as you say, managing the space with the future soil and plant health in mind is a reasonable course of action.)

I use wood chips in the paths between the beds. To me, it's the perfect choice for where I live. Each region will have it's own pluses and minuses for mulch and path materials.

"Don't be fooled by the mulching hysteria. it can be a disaster if not carefully considered."

Seriously? The benefits of good mulching so far outweigh any possible detriment that calling it "hysteria" is laughable.

Literally millions of acres of gardens are mulched annually without any "infestation of voles or mice" developing. Many gardeners don't even have a vole within 150 miles of them and if one is "infested with mice" then there is another far more serious cause that needs to be addressed. It isn't their garden mulch.

Dave

The thing I've been using to deter deer are some motion activated sprinklers. I set the water supply on a timer that comes on close to dark and goes off soon after sunrise. If a deer comes in the area, the sprinkler does a che-che-che several times and the deer bolt. They don't hang around my yard any longer.

@Dave I am being serious... You don't see many big scale farming operations mulching and I was trying to point out that the type of mulch used should be carefully considered. As well, that it's not necessary if you provide ground cover. Plus OP has sandy soil and I don't think 2 foot rows with mulching is a good idea. I've heard enough mulching nightmares.. You took my post out of context, and yea, there is a mulching hysteria out there. Some gardeners are taking mulching to the extremes, garden extremists with their whole "back to eden" BS.

"PHEW!!!! I just came in for a break trying to shove that 8' ground rod into the ground. "

I use 10' iron rebar for staking tomatoes and the best way to pound them 2' into the ground is using a vicegrip and a 5 lb hammer. Clamp the vicegrip onto the pipe as tight as possible at waist level and hammer away on the side of the vice grip tool. Sometimes you have to reposition it up a bit as the pipe sinks into the ground. It shortens the life of the vicegrip a few years ;-)

I'm also a N-S rower.

Thanks for the comeback, rgreen. Your reasons for crop rotation are the same as I had in mind. I don't know what it is called, but I read somewhere the idea that even things that improve conditions a fraction of a percent when added to other fractions start adding up to big differences. My garden will be a small one by lots of people's standards but I will probably do some basic crop rotations...it seems about as easy to do it as to not do it. :) Wood chips sound good. A little different, but there's about 65 acres of fresh plantation pine clear-cut across the road from me...plenty of old pine bark where they did there limbing and loading...I might use some of that for my paths.

As for the moles and voles...I had to go google "voles". Seems like a wood mouse. Hopefully I won't have a problem with them.

drmbear Cherry, I'll keep the sprinklers in mind. I'm hoping the electric fence will do the job, but if it doesn't...

vgkg, seems I've heard of doing what you talking about. I managed to get all but a foot of the ground rod simply with my hands...the last foot was with a short-handled sledge hammer. It is amazing what a little water and that stabbing motion will do.

Well, I got the electric fence up and running. Four strands of polywire for now. Where I tied the strands together at each end isn't the prettiest in the world but it appears to be working. The Parmak 12v fence charger is pegging the meter out and my small 7Kv tester shows the fence to be maxing out the high reading of 7kv so I think it's pretty hot. I'm running the Parmak off of a regular Wallyworld group-24 deep cycle (not the Maxx) battery. I went ahead and mixed up some vegetable oil and peanut butter and generously painted spots on the conductors to temp the deer into tasting it. I don't know if I'll find the fence torn down in the morning or not, hopefully not, but hopefully a deer will get a taste of 7kv and tell all its friends about it. ;)

Ed

VOLES! These are capable of tunneling under your plants and eating the bottoms. Last year my beets looked wilty. When I started to pull them, many were at least 2/3 gone. Same with the carrots. Not sure what I'm going to do this year. I was surprised that I didn't see evidence of tunneling. Where did all the dirt go?

Maybe they hauled it out of the tunnel in the cuff of their pants???

That damage sounds pretty bad defrost49...and I thought tomato worms were bad!!!!

I won't be able to move tomorrow but I got a lot accomplished today!!!!<groan>

I completed the fence last Thursday. But this basically is what I started with this morning in regards to the garden soil.

I fertilized and tilled today, then laid the beds and paths out....3' beds and 2' paths. Then shoveled some of the soil from the paths to the beds to level them up some. Here are a couple of pictures of the results.

And finally...what kind of grass is this?

My body hurts,

Ed

I'm retired with couch potato genes so I go to the gym trying to keep my stamina up for gardening. Your garden looks great. I'm going to guess bad news about the grass because it looks like our witch grass or quack grass. Dig it up carefully and look to see if it has runner roots since I'm guessing the smaller sprig is from a runner root. I use a hand weeder like a Cape Cod weeder to get these out because you can dig along the root so it doesn't break.

You're garden is the same size as mine. I've seen people lay down newspaper before mulching with straw. I sometimes use mulch that our city makes from tree waste, but it can use up the nitrogen in the soil unless you compensate with composted manure or something. Either way it cuts down on weeds.

My garden runs east to west, but I don't think it really matters unless you're growing a big stand of a real shading crop like corn.

defrost, I hear you on the couch potato genes. It amazed me what I managed to get done yesterday...but I was moving in slow motion as I trudged back to the house. This morning finds me with a few "enhanced" aches and pains.<groan>

As for the grass, I think it might be crabgrass. Seems there are no runners, but has it's own fine root system (having pulled lots of it over the last few weeks. It seems it grows in certain areas of the garden moreso than other areas....probably busted up some clumps when I first tilled. I keep pulling... I've got an "apron" figured in around the planting area that I hope to continue to cultivate in hopes I'll keep the bahia, ect, from trying to invade. I figure I've got enough indigenous weeds to deal with inside the beds already. Now with the beds formed and neated I'm beginning to panic on getting some organic material/mulch in there. Ah well, looks like pine straw for the paths and I'll figure something out for the beds...leaves?...privet hedge chips (gotta get chipper running)?...rotten wood?

Phuong, I've thought about going down with newspaper in the paths prior to mulching. Looks like I'll probably be using pine straw there...maybe old pine bark. For the beds I'm still at a loss...I'm thinking of leaves if I can find something. Our local city does collect yard debris/leaves so I will check with them. We also have tree-trimming crews that chip up limbs, etc.,...but, being as they're clearing ROW areas for the electric company I worry about pesticide (herbicide) residues.

And since you reminded me about bed orientation...I ended up going east-west, or probably more WNW-ESE. The land has a very slight southerly slope to it so I figured going E-W might preclude having erosion issues. Now, having just typed that I realized that I'll need to account for that first path/bed catching the run-off from the area above it...I haven't added the end paths yet, so that will probably do to alleviate too much water pooling on the high side. Whether I got that figured right or not (the compass orientation) that's they way it is...I sure ain't changing now!!!<grin>

I'm glad I decided on 2' paths. Looking at them and the beds, 2' isn't really that wide. With the sides of the beds sloping down it's more like 1 to 1-1/2'. Of course, it might be that I fudged and let the beds encroach upon the path area. :)

Ed

Well, supposedly we're supposed to be getting some rain for about the next week...good percentages for small amounts .10-.25". I wanted to get some things planted and had this afternoon to get it done it. I don't think I used the space as well as it could be used, but I'll (hopefully) learn. Remember, I have no idea what I'm doing. :biggrin:

The nearest row is filled with tomatoes...36" apart. The tomato plants had all gotten quiet big. I'm not sure how they will turn out. They were probably close to 20" tall. I trimmed most of the limbs off to the top, dug a 1-1/2' long hole, strew a pinch of fertilizer in there, laid them down and covered them up. The white you see in the picture are some collars I have for cut-worms, actually the top of the styrofoam cups the plants were in...again, I have no idea what I'm doing. As you can see, there are three types of tomatoes...all from seed, Mortgage Lifters, Brandy Wind Red, and some Roma VF. Now...I gotta figure something to hold them up with...stakes, trellis, cages, hovercraft...

The next row to the right is a mix. 17 hills (maybe too much?)of Clemson Spineless okra at the far end, yellow crookneck squash this side of them, and a couple of bell pepper plants at the near end.

The next (third) row to the right starts with a couple more bell pepper plants. Beside the peppers and going a little over half the length of the row/bed are two rows of zipper cream peas. They are planted 2" apart and the rows are 18" apart.

The final (fourth) row to the right is basically a copy of the third row without the pepper plants.

All of this leaves a little less than 1/4 the planting area empty. For now, the things on my mind to plant are cucumbers, cantaloupes, and watermelons. I can probably only have one hill of watermelons, maybe a couple of hills of cantaloupes, and a few hills of cucumbers.

The only thing I feel that I made good use of the wide rows is the peas. More to come.... :)

how many hills of crookneck squash? To feed how many people? I think I did 4 hills last year of zucchini (2) and pattypan (2) which was more than enough for the two of us and weekly feeding our son and his family. Our daughter-in-law is supposed to make zucchini relish with the oversized ones.

I assume two rows of peas means you have a trellis that the two rows are sharing. That's what I do. We have some panels of concrete reinforcing mesh that were leftover from a construction project which we use for trellis. They are held in place zip tied to steel posts. Last year in the 3-4' wide bed, I had a double row of pole beans sharing the trellis and on either side a row of pepper plants. Most pepper plants don't get very big here in NH although the jalapeno got a few feet tall. Also, at one end beyond the trellis I had a very short row of small cukes (Poona Kheara) and at the other end of rambunctious Principe Borghese cherry tomato.

My garden evolves over the years. Now that I have a dehydrator I like to grow more paste tomatoes. Some still get canned and some get frozen whole. Some years I grew too many sugar snap peas, gave away a lot, and then tried to get the knack of succession planting.

Last year was my first year of growing a melon which I tracked down at a farmers market buying only the ones that were named so I would know what seed to buy. Two hills were plenty since they seemed to ripen all at once.

I liked to grow kabocha winter squash, Delicata and sometimes I try for a third variety. I started growing potatoes starting with a sampler pack of fingerlings from Moose's Tubers after seeing a quart of fingerlings priced at $4.50 at the farmers market. I grow too many and should give more away. Both winter squash and potatoes store well in the cellar so I like being able to stretch out the harvest that way.

Happy gardening!

defrost, what?...you act like it's hard to give squash away.<grin> No, I've seen the voluminous harvests that folks have. I figured we'd give some to the neighbors, etc.,...make them run and hide when they see us coming with a bucket in hand. ;) Seriously, we do have some folks to give some to but I think six hills might be overdoing it. As the case may be, I read where it's not recommended to plant cucumbers close to your melons due to cucumber beetles being attracted to the cucumber plants then jumping over to the melons. Well, I went ahead and seeded eight feet of slicing cucumber over a couple of those squash hills....I'll nip (or not) the squash when they come up. So that may end up reducing our squash crop.

It sounds like you have a very nice garden going. I hope to learn as I go, it's just been kind of hectic trying to get things started. Maybe I can get a little breathing room now to study over things *after* getting a little experience.

Saving the harvest is naturally a big interest. I just started pressure canning meat this past year and looking forward to canning/freezing some vegetables. How do you store your tomatoes after dehydrating them?

I've got a half of a row yet to plant. I planted the far right row marked "Empty 1/4" with three hills of Wilson Sweet watermelon and some hills of Hales Best cantaloupe. The weather service is predicting good chances of small amounts of rain over the next week...hoping it comes on soon!!!! I'm going to sit back and wait now...and rest. :)

Ed

Ed, keep in mind I'm retired. I like to dehydrate some tomatoes part way so they are still plump so those have to go in the freezer. Others I dry so they are very dry but after having some zucchini mold, I've been leery about leaving dehydrated food in the cabinet/glass jars. But dehydrated apple bits did great in a glass jar. I use them for baking (King Arthur Flour recipes) and adding to my oatmeal with raisins. Once things are dehydrated, even partially, they take up much less space. One idea that I kind of liked was to dehydrate tomatoes part way and then puree in a food processor to make tomato paste. I froze it in small containers for those recipes that just want 2T of paste. My favorite paste tomato is Opalka for its size but Vilms made a small size paste tomato that just made smaller pieces. The large cherry tomatoes from Principe Borgese plants are supposedly popular for drying in Italy. I guess they just have less seeds. I liked them as a fresh tomato, about golf ball size, but I oven dried a lot, covered with oil and put in the freezer. Again, shrunk down they don't take up much space.

I've also experimented with taking very dry tomatoes and turning them into a tomato powder for seasoning. The first I tried was using the skins removed from tomatoes I canned. That was a little too much fussy handling.

I have a lot to learn about using dehydrated foods. I'd like to do more than just put them in soups. Learning all the time!

You've been doing this a while, haven't you? :) The reason I asked is that probably 20 years ago I bought a food dehydrator...seems the brand was Excaliber(?). I've still got it in a closet, I'll have to pull it out one day...too many irons in the fire right now. So, I'll still with canning and freezing this year. ;) I recall we did some bananas, potatoes, carrots, and ???....seems they all worked well, but life got in the way and our food storage got sidetracked. Hopefully in another year or two I'll be bugging you about drying vegetables. :)

Opalka...seems I've heard others mention it as being a good paste tomato.

I'm glad the garden is more or less worked up and planted...I need a break. So, back to work tomorrow! But, if there's some spare time during the day I'll be building a small door/gate for the garden to do away with the spring-handled electric fence gaps...my wife is very much afraid of electric fences...I'll build the door tall and run the electric wire either above or below (buried insulated wire). But, carpentry work is kind of like gardening...I really don't know what I'm doing.<grin>

Ed

Well, the rain is still dodging us...lots of rain storms around us, but so far we've only gotten .06" out of it since planting. There was some moisture in the ground when I planted and we've had really humid, moist days...just no rain to speak of. Planting was mostly on the May 27th followed by melons and cucumbers the 28th. This past Thursday (June 1st) I found the peas had started poking their heads up overnight. The next morning the rest of the garden had decided to seek daylight...okra, squash, cucumbers, cantaloupe, and watermelon. The forecast was for some rain, but I'd heard that song before so I went ahead and spot watered the emerging seedlings. Sure enough, we got rain all around us but none on the garden. Today my plans are to get the drip irrigation set up. Maybe next week I can get a water line out to the garden area...for the time being it will be about 150' of garden hose stretched out to the garden. I've also got a lead on some organic material that might turn out really good. :)

We got almost .25" of rain today!!! And, I also got the irrigation set up....I've still gotta work on a few leaks, but the little test drive I did of it this evening I was pleased with. I'm not sure if you can tell heads or tales about this screen capture of a spreadsheet I worked on regarding flow rates and length of time to run the irrigation, but I'm thinking I need to run it for 40 minutes every two days or 80 minutes every four days to achieve 1" of water on the garden...taking into consideration any rain, of course.

Nice set up and not a weed in sight!

Thanks naturegirl_2007, You would not believe the number of times I've crawled over that garden grubbing grass and weeds out of it...and I keep finding them. :)

Ed

I've definitely gotta get some mulch down...the next big project!!!

On a different note... I was heading to church yesterday evening and took a moment to check out the freshly rained on garden.... :)

Looks great!

I love the way your garden looks, so clean looking and lots of space. What part of Alabama do you stay in? I live in the Pensacola area, just wondering how close you are to me. Happy Gardening.

Thanks ya'll, but looks can be deceiving.<grin> I'm no gardener, at least definitely not a landscaper, I tell folks my yard is an Auburn Experimental Station...it has a little of everything in it, mostly weeds!!! :) I figure as time goes by the appearance will change...I'm still trying to figure out how to keep the fence cleared...looks like a weedeater is in the future...would be handy mowing down cover/manure crops, too. I'm planning to till around the edges of the garden to combat encroaching grass...crab, bahia, etc.,. And still have got to scrounge up mulching material and get it spread. Plenty of projects...

I'm getting started late in the year, but had to figure out the fencing due to deer population. We figure anything we get out of the garden this year is a bonus...I'm just hoping the fence will keep the deer turned away...so far so good but those peas haven't gotten up big waving their leaves at the deer on the other side of the fence. I'm hoping the deer have already nosed the fence and have spread the word to their friends to stay far, far away from that area!!! :)

PcolaGrower, we're about 50 miles due south of Montgomery in Crenshaw County...foothills of the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. ;)

More rain today so cold and wet again. With nights in the 40s, my tomatoes still aren't in yet. My husband said hot weather is arriving on Thursday. Of course, weeds have managed to grow. Those are a constant no matter where we live. Our son got a very good bargain on a chipper/shredder at a flea market. Didn't know whether it worked or not but after clean up contacts, it worked fine. I have not asked my husband so save grass clippings since I still have a pile from last year, also last year's maple leaves are shredded and waiting to be used. A neighbor said he doesn't plant potatoes until after June 1 to miss the Colorado potato beetles so that's what I'm trying this year. There are a couple of missed tubers from last year that are now about 18" tall. Found a beetle on one plant June 2! Here's hoping we have some new potatoes soon from those few plants but that the main crop will miss the beetles this year and I won't have to be on potato beetle patrol every day (and they still won).

defrost49, some volunteer 'taters sound pretty good. :) And, good grab on the shredder!!!! That will certainly help get stuff down to sizes the microbes and soil critters can start dealing with...and a finer texture to work with, too.

I hope the weather breaks soon for you. Amazingly I've been so worried about the lack of rain and now I'd like to see some sunshine, too! But, I know the drought is coming...summertime in Dixie....heat, sun, drought, humidity, bugs, weeds, etc.,. Let the good times, roll, eh? :)

One thing I haven't really studied over is pest/bug control. I know tomato hornworms but the six-legged critters I'm not too sure about. Will be a learning curve, I'm certain!

Study up on striped cucumber beetles and squash bugs if you have them in your area. Last year striped cucumber beetles completely destroyed some of my winter squash seedlings. They only attacked some varieties, not all. This year I will not forget to put down Agribon fabric to protect the seedlings. The year before I kept it on until mid-July. But, it doesn't get as hot in NH as it does in AL. The fabric raises the temperature a little underneath. I don't use hoops for this.

We have lots of birds including wild turkeys. Last year I know I saw evidence of tomato horn worms but never found any. Something must have been eating them. Usually they get big enough to scare the grandchildren before I find them with a few branches of tomato plants defoliated. Good luck!

Thanks defrost49, I'll be on the lookout for bugs of all types. I've got a couple of "bug books" so it's time to start browsing them. We definitely have "stink" bugs and squash bugs, along with several beetles. Seems the stink bugs hit tomatoes hard around here. As for squash, I haven't grown enough around here to really know about them. What is the better "control" (other than squashing them) for the stink/squash bugs. I've also got to figure out if we have soldier bugs down here so I won't mistakenly kill them, too.

We've got several blue birds around the property and they've already been visiting the garden...picking bugs or whatever off the barren soil...easy pickin's if a bug happens to land there. Also, tit mouse, chickadees, redbirds, thrashers, orioles, mockingbirds, etc.,. Hopefully they will help out with the bug patrols. We have a few crows that land occasionally in the yard, too...hope to keep them away...might be time to put together a scarecrow of sorts.

I've looked at row covers and that seems like a good thing to make use of. Will have to look into that more, also. An ounce of pervention.... ;)

Last year was my first veggie garden year. Knock on wood, I avoided most bad bugs, but the cucumber beetles were horrible. Hundreds of them murdered my cukes and nearly took down my pumpkins and zucchinis. I also had a squash vine borer on a zucchini. This year I have summer weight fabric to cover the vulnerable plants. Little disease carrying jerks.

Well, I picked a few worms off the tomatoes today and mushed a black bug or two. The worms were about 1/2" long, maybe a grayish yellow with a black stripe (maybe two stripes?). I need to carry a bottle with me so I can catch some of what I see for proper ID'ing. Yes, I'm sure if a destructive pest is around it'll find my garden... :)

On a bit of a different note The irrigation lines had a mind of their own today. Seems when I went out there this morning they were all "kinked" up...bent upwards or either they were moved to the side a few inches, in some cases actually laying on a seedling. I thing the heat of the sunshine is making the line twist on itself. here's a shot of one row...it either twisted over, floated over, blew over, or somehow moved out of place...there's no tracks or sign of any creatures around it. Odd.

I think I see garden staples in your picture. You may need to add some more. But that's odd. I'd think heat would make the black dripline relax more rather than twist up?

The staples are some I bent out of galvanized electric fence wire...they're about 7-8 inches long. When the drip tape is pressurized it swells and pushes the staples up out of the dirt so they don't hold the tape snug to the ground...there's a gap between the staple and tape that lets it move. Basically all the staples do it hold the tape "in line". I believe you're are correct in I need more of the staples. It does seem that the heat would make the drip tape more limp/flexible, doesn't it? Some of the lines were like they had been creased and pushed together forming a peak/hill in the line with the top of the hill being 2-3 inches above the dirt. Like I said...odd.

ETA: And, I need to peg the tape down at each end.

This is a bit late, but the uneven heating by the sun is probably causing the ripples. The top side heats up and expands, while the side touching the soil stays cool. The top side ends up "longer" than the bottom, causing the bumps and twisting as the line tries to bend.

Alyssa, I agree with that it has something to do with being heated up. Between the top and bottom of the tape maybe having a bit of a difference in temperature and the water inside being heated up quiet hot, something is going on. I'm not sure what, though. :) I haven't worked on it since I took the picture, but before this rainy spell breaks I'll have it pegged down at the ends...and more pegs, maybe more substantial than what I'm currently using, along the length of it.

defrost49, talking with some more folks I've decided the caterpillars are some local variant of army worms. I'm still picking off a few but I'm also finding them on the peppers and peas...mostly on the peas, now. Interesting, but I put some pine straw beneath the tomato plants and haven't seen any more caterpillars on them since then. I'm thinking, though, that I have a problem with aphids on the peas...looks like ants are farming them. Does soapy water sprayed on aphids work good at killing them?

Maybe try covering the lines with mulch or a thin layer of soil, if it won't harm them. That would mitigate the uneven heating problem. I've always used soapy water to control aphids - it works great for me, although I'm not as large-scale a gardener as you.

Thanks Alyssa. Yes, the t-tape can be covered over with soil or mulch. The added weight along with the shading would definitely help. I'm struggling to get some compost and mulch together...hopefully soon before the full bearing-down of the summer sun starts hitting!!! Thanks for the confirmation on the soapy water.

Experience is more important than scale...I'd trade half the garden for more experience. But, I guess I'll learn as i go. :) How do you mix your soapy water up? A tablespoon of dish detergent per gallon of water??? Or...??? :)

I usually just eyeball it... if I had to give a ratio, a tablespoon of soap to 1 gallon of water is a good starting point. I mix it in a watering can, but if you have a sprayer that will work better. Plain, unscented soap like Dawn is what I use. Make sure to apply when the sun won't immediately dry it up - evening or a cloudy day. I've heard that soapy water plus full sun can scald some plants as well - another reason to apply in the evening.

Well, I eyeballed it and used a small hand sprayer with some Dawn dish detergent in it. Yeah, there were aphids. I hope I didn't kill the peas but I bathed them pretty good with it.

Ok, well, the garden has grown a bit...here's a few pictures from today. The trellis I just put up today for the cucumbers...thus, they look a little "tossed around" right now...I figure a day or two and they'll be latching on to that nylon netting. I still need to weave a cross-piece across the top through the netting to help with support.

Just thought I'd update the thread a little...

The tomatoes have been pretty much a bust so far this year...the wet, hot summer has been conducive to ripening tomatoes rotting on the vines. The tomatoes coming on the indeterminate vines now that are higher up show a bit more promise being as they look more healthy. I've tried to keep the lower parts of the vines clear.

Okra is producing. Zipper cream cowpeas are producing well...the bright spot in the garden, so far!!! Small bell peppers continue to supply us with what we can eat. The cucumbers suffered from Downy Mildew and then the pickle worms arrived...did not get much of a harvest from them, though everything was planted late so didn't have much time between starting production and the time that DM and the pickle worms arrived. Squash struggled and now pickle worms...again, late planting didn't help them. Watermelons are just now setting fruit. Cantaloupe actually look pretty good for the few hills that I planted...looks like we've got about a dozen melons growing.

It's a learning experience, that is for sure!!!

Where we started...and where we're at today...

I have also enjoyed this thread.

If anyone wishes to give me accolades, please feel free. :-D Just kidding... just throw money.

8^>