About 70% foliage damage on south side of the trees, 10% to the north side. Typical after 6 below. Other broadleaf evergreens have suffered more leaf damage than normal since we went into winter in a severe drought. Much wetter now though but much warmer too. Mostly rain but 2" of wet slushy snow this morning.

How are yours?

My TXLO, or plain Fusi is a bit brownish green leaved, my QMLO is great, and my babies are good.

One baby QMLO is outside and has brownish green leaves, the other 3 babies are in the GH and look perfect.

We've only had about 3 nights the whole winter that have been single digits or below. One night had been -2F, the rest of the winter so far has been 20's, 30's and 40's F, with some even WARMER days, with colder nights. I've made several short comments here because my first comment would not post.

Mike, mine are similar to yours...south side zapped. about 20% green leaves left all north side.

New Southern Living Southern zone planting map

https://www.southernliving.com/garden/usda-zones/southern-usda-zones

So this is about a 10 year old Quartz Mtn Live Oak i planted at a friends house in Springfield, Missouri. It started out as a little 4ft sapling.

You said: ”Fyi, a couple of years ago I went to Sunshine nursery in Clinton Oklahoma. We talked to Steve who said that he thinks the mountain trees and the park trees are the same but if you see the trees there they're different. Mountain trees are shrubby at 8 to 12 ' with small narrow acorns. Below in the park they're larger, 20 to 30' with larger fat acorns. Maybe it's because more available moisture and thicker soils.

My gut feeling is that they are planted trees from wherever. Steve knows way more about it than me.”

I’m not sure who originally posted the above quote, but the reason for this is very simple. The live oaks at Quartz Mtn park in oklahoma are the same as the ones in the higher lands above the park. The ones in the park get irrigated somewhat, in addition the land in the park where there is camping and picnic tables is old lake bottom and the soil is richer and different. The trees in the higher elevations are completely wild, are on very hard quartz based soils. If and when it does rain, very little water penetrates the ground but rather runs off and goes downstream to the lake…creating the scrublike appearance you see, If you ever go to Texas and go see some wild motts of Quercus Fusiformis its very similar. The wild trees will be smaller and more scrub like although not as severe as the Mountain Trees Quercus Fusiformis of Oklahoma. I have been to the same park and in the higher elevation trees…there are a couple trees growing beside a small stream that probably runs all year being it was the month of july when I went there and it was still running some water. These trees are not scrublike at all and while they were not as big as the ones in the park..they were much more robust and single trunked specimens.

Yeah Joe, that was me. I used to post as HU 5252... but my phone shot craps and I didn't have anything saved so I had to start all over. Anyway I agree with that possibility or maybe likelihood because I see this on my sw Missouri property. There's about a 1 acre sandstone glade almost barren except a few scrubby Blackjack oak about 3-6' tall. Around the perimeter of the glade were soils are a bit thicker, they are about 10-20' tall.

With that said I'm still not 100% sure in my mind but I hope you're right because that would mean I have dozens of QMLO seedlings. I will keep them separate Anyway from the seedlings I know are from the mountains...just in case.

Steve and my friend in Wichita agree with you but the gentleman at Alligator Alley thinks not. He says the more consistent acorn production on the park trees and they are not as cold hardy. Evidently he has seen this. Anyway, like I said, I hope you're right.

Hey Joe, my QMLO that you sent me, the BIG one died. It wasn't from the cold. I think it had some sort of rot on the lower trunk. The bark on the lower trunk just kinda came off in 1 big piece. The buds were looking like they were fine, but that lower bark just came off in the big chunk. I am so sad about it. I do still have 1 of the babies you sent me though. And, it's about 3 feet tall now, with a trunk caliper of approx 3/4 of an inch.

The other 3 babies you sent got cooked in my GH last year. I wish that I could cool my GH off better. I have an exhaust fan and a fan blowing the air to the exhaust fan, but, no roof vent.

Anyway, once the baby I have now get about an inch and a half in caliper, I'll plant it outside.

Later

Hi Mike,

I have read some stuff from the Alligator alley guy. Maybe so…, but you just don’t pick up extreme cold tolerant live oak trees just anywhere. Those trees at the park have survived -20 below zero. Where did they come from? I have some Texas Quercus Fusifomis and while they can get down to -5 they start to lose their leaves when that happens. While they always come back the next year..they might get a little die back. Their leaves are not quite as leathery and thick, same for their branches as the Quartz Mtn variety they are thick and no dieback.. So they aren’t from Texas. There is another area of Oklahoma near the county where the Quartz Mtn variety are located called Turner Falls State Park, gets alot more rain there. They have wild Arbuckle Mountain Live Oaks. Not nearly as scrubby as the Quartz Mountain..nice looking trees. And if you want to find the most northerly Live Oaks in Oklahoma drive through the Glass Mountains about 1 Hr 30 min north of Quartz Mountain. I picked up a few acorns from some live oaks residing along side a small creek, unfortunately they were picked off the ground and had lost their viability.

Bottom line the QM Live Oaks have much leathery leaves and thicker new growth branches, I do believe the park oaks are true oklahoma natives. Just my 2 cents

New USDA Growing Zones map

Link to website

Hey Poaky that is sad.

Usually when that bark comes off its from sun scald in the winter. the bark cracks and peels away. This is caused by usually a southern sun heating up one side while the other side is cold. I had a friends tree I planted do the same. I have wrapped my trees trunks in foam wrap all the way till last year over the winter. My trees have nice thick bark and the trunks are about 8 inches across. So it should be safe now from the sun scald. So when you plant the baby tree out there ..make sure you put a noodle around it when its small, and take it off when there is no more threat of frost. Also i would not prune your live oak for many years ..let it grow wild. Live Oaks tend to sends its lower branches towards the ground, this naturally blocks the sun from hitting that trunk and heating it up causing cracking

By the way, its not the heat in your green house that causes the live oaks to die..they love heat. it that they suck up all the water in the pots..you have to literally water them every day. Live oaks tend to fool people cuz they dont wilt and stay green so they look fine, but they are dying at the roots from lack of water. i have had tons of potted live oaks ..trust me on this.

Hey Poaky, seems like sometime back you mentioned that your yard had some swampy areas, that could have contributed to its demise. Could have had sunscald like Joe said and excessive moisture could have allowed rot to set in?

I to have had seemingly healthy LO just up and die. A couple of mine have had sunscald but they were high and dry and recovered.

Joe, I've been to the Glass mountains twice, only saw juniper and Yucca. I'll take the trail next time and give it a closer look. We only stopped briefly for a break. Those same Gypsum hills extend north into southern Kansas, not all that far away.

It's in a well drained area, and just the very lower trunk was affected. At least I still have 1 more QMLO baby.

Btw, my other LO died too. The one from "oaks of the wild west". It keeps coming up from the lower trunk. And the last winter was barely a winter. NO below 0 F at all, and a very brief couple nights of teens. Most days were above freezing, some in the 40's and 50's F. Both were on well drained sites. I was so sure the big QMLO was going to be here for the long haul, living was beyond me. Thanks for the reply. I will be planting the last QMLO baby away from our dogs, in case my male dog had been peeing on the trunk of the one that just died last winter or spring.

Really, that is the only possibility that makes sense to me. But, the dog and tree were fine the last 6 1/2 years previous, so, that may not be it. Maybe we just had too much rain?

Since I can't figure out how to upload pics here, and I don't want to hear my brother complain if I ask him to do it, can I mail you a pic snail mail?

If so, are you still at the same address as a few years ago? That would be on E. St. etc? If you don't want bugged tell me. You are Mike Hisey. I have your address from a few years or so ago.

Ill take pics, and print them out and mail to you.

That's really too bad but that's the peril of experimenting. I've been growing plants out of their comfort zone for forty years, I'm used to failure but also have many pleasant surprises. Makes it worth it to me.

You don't have to send pics but you can if you want, same address. Next week we'll be going to a nursery in Stillwater, Oklahoma that specializes in cold tolerant huge Yucca and other xerophytes. Might swing down to Quartz mountain, I hope this might be the masting year for QMLO. If so I'll send you some.

Mike

Here's healed sunscald on my biggest TXLO. 8" diameter trunk. From the 2021 cold blast that froze Texas.

Second pic is a 6 " trunk still healing from a few years before that.

With mine, it just came off of the very lower trunk near the roots, and the bark in that area is just all gone. I can take a pic and mail you a pic snail mail if you are okay with that.

Your tree still has most of the bark in tact in the area of sunscald, mine is all off the tree in a big chunk, all bare. And, your tree isn't failing to leaf out, right? Mine never showed any signs of life at all since last year.

Should I send a pic? If not tell me.

Did it sprout back around the trunk? If not you might have had problems below ground. LO are pretty good at resprouting if the top is damaged as you have seen with the other. Or fungus got in.

You can send pics if you would like but don't feel like you have to.

Only the TXLO from oaks of the wild west sprouted back from the trunk. The QMLO that was about 8-9 feet tall was just dead. The trunk bark looked fine. It had some lichen growing on the trunk. The trunk looks fine up til the very bottom part. I'll take a pic and get it printed out, then I'll send it snail mail. There's smooth bark on most of the trunk, and then at the bottom foot to 14 ish inches, bare. I haven't cut the tree down yet, so, I'll take a few pics and send to Mike Hisey.

As for the greenhouse killed QMLO babies, the one that lived was in a bigger pot than the others. I watered daily, but, I know now that IF you send acorns, I will sow in big pots, more media to stay moister.

Btw, I had put the pool noodle on the now dead QMLO for at least 3 winters, so, I thought it was fine now. My brother had mentioned that maybe it was too close to the house, but, I doubt that he would kill it. Anyway, the one that I have now, when I am ready to plant it, it will be further from the house, outside of the dog yard. Maybe our male dog was peeing right on the lower trunk where the bark fell off? Okay, thanks for replying. I'll take the pics and get them printed out and send to you, so, I can get your opinion.

Poaky, I saw the pics. Did your dog dig around the base or did you? Is that the root flare? Looks like all below ground damage.

I didn't make it to Quartz mountain but I have a couple hundred Lacey oak acorns if you would like.

Mike

I didn't dig around it. I didn't really notice that anybody had dug around it. I guess my dogs had then. You can see where the lower bark is all off, and it's just dead wood, or dead lower trunk/upper root damage. It's really sad.

I am just going to stick with the QMLO's, so no Lacey oak, but thanks for offering. Maybe next year if you go to Quartz mountain. I am trying my best to keep the current QMLO baby happy. It will be a couple or a few years before I can plant it out. I am just worried about keeping it potted up without having the roots get all bound up and circling around too bad in the pot. I'll repot it in spring. I'm keeping it well watered too, so, I don't have it die like the others. My greenhouse can get plenty hot in winter when the sun is out.

So, you think it's damage from digging animals? Well, thanks for taking the time to look at the pics. Happy rest of your Thanksgiving HU.

Poaky, it could have been any number of things. Animals, Sun scald, weed wacker that caused the debarking. But the Quartz Mtn Live oaks live in a super dry climate. You cannot plant these live oaks deep, they must have at least the root flare exposed and on mine of have even some minor roots close to the trunk exposed. In the northern climates we tend to have more moisture and in yours more more moisture and a low heat zone to boot. This could cause moisture to accumulate around the root flare and invite pests and fungus to attack the tree and not have the heat to evaporate and kill fungus with covered soil. Even on Mikes pics of his live oaks ..those are planted too deep for a northern climate live oak. In Texas you will see they plant the Quercus Fusifomis shallow..and it’s generally dry there not as much as quartz mtn area. I will send you a new 3 ft tree out in mid April.

https://treeshepherds.net/root-flare-exposure-and-tree-health/

Hi Joe, It wasn't that I planted it too deep. The root flare was visible, and no weed wacking was done near it. I sent pics to Hu in Missouri. Maybe he can send you digital pics of my pics. I sent physical pics to him snail mail. I had removed a protective fence from it last year, it was too close to the tree's trunk. When I removed it I GUESS the male dog we have then started peeing on it.

The root flare was visible on the tree. I did water the tree when we had no rain for a week. Maybe that is what caused problems? The fence had not touched it either. So, EVERY TIME we went a week without decent rain, I watered it with a hose. I wanted max growth, so, I watered it unless we had good rain. Maybe that's where I messed up?

As far as sending me a new tree, thanks Joe. I do still have the one in the greenhouse. But, an extra tree would be great! The one in the greenhouse is about 3 feet tall too, BUT, only about 1/2 inch thick trunk. I want to wait until the trunk is about an inch thick before planting it outside in the ground. I can even give you some $$$$ for the extra tree. At least cover postage/shipping.

Poaky, you might be better off planting it in early spring after last frost and letting it out of that confining pot. Good on planting shallow. Dog pee might have caused it, not sure but could be sunscald or even a fungus. Might put some chicken wire around the tree to keep dogs away next time

Joe, have you seen the latest version of the usda hardiness zone map. Now shows me firmly in 6b and Springfield 6b to 7. Looks like 7 is knocking on Poaky's door. Need to see it in better detail though. Zone 8 clips the southern part of the Missouri bootheel.

Hi guys. Okay, so I will plant the baby QMLO that I have outside next spring. I just hope that it's ready for the winter of 2024- 2025. I was wondering that once next years winter comes along, should I cover the tree (including the whole leaved part) with the pool noodle, or just the unfoliaged trunk? Will covering most of the whole tree kill it?

About the new hardiness zone map, I am still in the bright green area, so, I guess I'm still zone 6a or 6b. But, right to the county left of me, it shows a spot of yellow. Which I'm guessing is zone 7. And, I'm not sure why the county left of me would be warmer. Maybe the counties closer to the atlantic ocean way to my county's right would be. I don't get that at all.

I'm going by the map shown above by Joe in Mo. That county left of me is Greene county. And, I can't imagine what's in Greene county that would make it warmer by 10 F than my county, which is Fayette county. Then, the county directly to my right, and part of my county is colder because it is at a higher elevation. But the map doesn't show that distinction. Maybe I should look for another map? Maybe there's a more accurate map?

Poaky just the trunk and then pile some bark chips up around the pool noodle a good ft thick, and then remove when chance of frost is gone to prevent sun scald .

Mike not sure i seen it, can you post a link ?

This is what makes the Quartz Mtn Live oak and really any quercus fusiformis naturally growing in Oklahoma special. Check out the below zero temps for Oklahoma next week. These are pretty rare but have happened several times over the last 30 years. And the trees usually come through unscathed. -14F just southwest of OKC, and -22F for Ponca City.

Here ya go poaky, this is the way you wrap your bigger trees. I will do this until the trunk reaches about a foot to a foot and half in diameter. Its just simple pink foam wrap from Home Depot with blue masking tape. This just helps keep the cold from going down into the roots. It would take -15 to -20 to have that happen for a couple days in a row, not something we see here but you never know. Ill take it off after last frost to prevent sun scald.

Okay, I'll try that. Thanks. We have been mostly around in the 20's F as lows. But, we are going to go down to 9F coming up. But, I am no longer too worried about my Fusi from "Oaks of the wild west". It keeps dying down to soil level. It will always be a shrub. I have to cut off the dead branches. Last winter we had NO below zero temps, still it died back. I'm disappointed. But, it was always a gamble if it would do okay. It was from Arizona, not Oklahoma. The branches and buds are noticably more slender than the LO's from Quartz mountains. Even my baby QMLO in the GH has those more stocky buds and branches. Later.

Okay, I posted the reply above BEFORE I saw your last post and pics. So you do that wrapup until your tress get THAT diameter? Wow. A whole foot diameter trunk? Okay. So, it's sunscald we're protecting the tree from, NOT freezing temps? Well, I guess that the mulch added in winter is for cold protection too. Okay, later.

Hey Joe, I'm not very tech savvy to post a link but you can Google it. A couple of sites just mention 7b in se Missouri but if you look closely, 8a skims the southern part of the bootheel.

Mike, I found it. yep looks like 7a for areas Springfield, Missouri and south now.

So this is right at the temperature where there will be no leaf loss with an established Quercus Fusiformis var Quartz Mtn.

-6 below zero for 2 days in a row. Now -6 below hit between 4am and 8am. Midnight it was zero, then each hour dropped a degree or 2. So this was not a solid night of -6

A week later here is the pic.

We had consecutive nights at -8, -7 and -8 nearly two weeks ago. The first night was brutally windy with -1 for the high the following day.

Here's the New Mexican trees today. There are few damaged leaves but I know next week when the sun finally comes out with temps near 60, many will brown. The 3rd pic is Darlington oak with at least some live leaves.

Sorry 3rd pic didn't send.

Thank you for the pics Mike! They are all looking great! My QMLO’s have leaves on them still with the same type of weather. Both hybrid live Oaks you gave me have lost there leaves.

Mike ..wow the Mexican trees looks great. I must have missed it..what kind are they?

Oh Joe that first pic is yours! Great pic too! Looking great!! Thank you for sending!!

They are Q. fusiformis from only natural occurrence in New Mexico a 40 acre sinkhole in the Permian basin. This area is about 3000 to 4000' and historically has been 10 to 15 below 0 f.

After a week of brilliant sunshine and temps in the 50s to nearly 70, South side leaves have browned. Interior and north side leaves are still mostly green and lush.

Mike, that’t interesting. If they ever have acorns i would like to have some.

Yeah Joe, I'll let you know if I get any. Generally most of them abort before they mature for some reason.

Heya guys, I have planted my QMLO baby outside in my yard, in a well drained location. I had planted it about 2 weeks ago. I kinda HAD to because it had been getting some new spring leaves on it, and I was afraid that IF I HAD WAITED much longer, that I would not have been able to plant it outside in the ground, and be able to have dealt with all of the circling roots that were in the pot that it had been growing in while it was in the greenhouse. I really hope that I haven't messed up by planting it out TOO SOON. When we have gotten a cold spell, about 34F, I have been using a little shelter to protect the QMLO baby, BUT, I have seen that those new leaves on the QMLO baby have died. But, the QMLO baby has NOT been exposed to tempts lower than 34F so far. And, I have been covering the tree when it has been about 34F. I had used a heavy frost cloth, and wrapped it around the baby QMLO., while it was STILL inside the "little shelter", so, I am REALLY HOPING that my QMLO baby is going to be good.

I would have just kept my baby QMLO in my greenhouse until after my area's last frost date, but,

I had to deal with many circling roots that were in the pot where my baby QMLO had been living.

And, so, me dealing with all of those circling roots had been BEST for my baby QMLO, and that is OF COURSE, WHY, I had been so eager to go on ahead AND TRANSPLANT MY QMLO into an actual bed of native soil in my yard.

I really hope that I have done right by my little QMLO tree.

BTW, I will mention that in my area here, we have (as of the WHOLE WINTER) only gone down to a low of 7F, so, NO below zero temps this WHOLE WINTER!

I do find that amazing! But, of course, we can't just figure that we will not ever experience those REALLY frigid winters ever again! BUT, as of April 2024, we have been at a zone 7a hardiness zone rating.

Anyways, I REALLY do wish that my QMLO will be able to rebound fine after experiencing some quite FROSTY nights, and that my effort to protect them, will be successful. I have REALLY tried to cover my QMLO baby with a heavy frostcloth, and also having it inside a shelter that totally encloses the tree.

I totally feel GREAT about protecting the tree, BUT, I do also hope that I haven't killed the tree by me planting it out too early in my yard.

All that I can ask is that people,, just, Wish me luck.

In case I haven't been very clear, my QMLO has only experienced a LOW of about 34F lately, and that had been with a protective cover on it. I Really do hope that I have done best for my baby QMLO.

Had it NOT awoke from it's winter slumber SO EARLY, I would have waited longer before planting it outside so early. But, I am aware that if you try to transplant a plant after it has broken dormancy, you just MIGHT cause it stress. So, I had been trying to do the best thing for the tree.

Does anybody think that the QMLO will end up rebounding, AND DOING GOOD?

i REALLY DO HOPE SO.

Poaky it should be okay. You have to get by April 15th in general to get out of the possibility of a hard freeze. Still may get a frost and might damage some tender leaves, but would releaf. Even though only 34 degrees still can get a good frost that would zap those tender new leaves. I had a good one on my tree many years ago and it re-leafed.

Okay, thanks for the info. We are usually last frost here a few days past Mothers day, May 12th this year, but who knows now. Last year our last frost here was before Mothers day.

I see no really cold weather the rest of this week in the forecast on my phone for my area. So, I'm glad for that. Okay, I'll update when I see new leaves, it currently has no leaves.

Hard freezes are hopefully done for.