p.s. Ultimate, the only info I get on Greenworld Industries site is that the finish is "Treffert UV Oil finish". I don't know if this has wax in it or not. I'm going to guess not, but I'm definitely NO expert on the subject. My understanding is that a hardwax oil finish is a completely different animal than a UV Oil finish. Thanks again for you help.

OK. Then I've been terribly confused Cancork. On several flooring websites, describing the different oil finishes. UV oil cured and hardwax oil have been described as two different kinds of oil finishes. But you are saying that hardwax oil cured = UV oil cured. And how do I know if I am getting a decent/good quality UV oil finish? . . . as Ultimate Hardwood is referring to different levels of quality in UV oil cured. And what is the difference in maintenance between UV oil cured (hwo) and natural oil finish? Thank you.

UV cured is a specific format of application. You can have UV cured urethane, UV cured Polyurethane, UV cured Hardwax Oils. UV CURED is a FORMAT. Hardwax Oils can be UV Cured or regular cure.

UV cured is often found in FACTORIES. Once the product has been applied, the boards pass through ANOTHER machine that blasts them with UV light = UV CURED. This drops cure times from several days to a few minutes. That is the UV Cured process out of a factory.

A UV Cured site finished floor is a VERY specific thing. And only a few professionals have the MACHINES (the UV machines) to do the job. Again, the UV CURE is a SEPARATE entity to the Hardwax Oil finish itself. But the UV cured finish NEEDS the UV light to FINISH the job. When you work with a finish that NEEDS the UV light, you cannot skip this process.

You specifically asked about UV cured HWO. So I pointed out what "HWO" indicated. I didn't realize that you were also looking for answers about UV cured events as well.

Think of them as two separate entities and things will start to make a bit more sense. Which is how we can create HWO finishes that have different categories (as Ultimate points out).

And the Treffert website indicates they use different finishes - Rubio and Woca being their HWO finishes. They also mention a ceramic infused finish which would be considered a traditional finish.

Fun isn't? (tongue firmly in cheek). In essence, a UV cured finish (no matter which one is used) normally has a better life span, not a shorter one.

To my knowledge there are two types of oil finishes. One has wax in it, the other does not. Simple. UV cured simply means that the formulation allows it to be cured by UV light before it's packaged. Presumably this is done for two reasons. It would allow for multiple coats to be applied and cured allowing for interesting finishes and the product would be fully cured before packaging. It may also eliminate the need to apply something to the floor between the time it's installed and the time it goes into service. Each brand and product differ so I suggest you refer to the Greenworld oil finish instructions at https://greenworldindustries.com/oil-care-maintenance/

I sold and installed one of their oil finished products and have had no issues but it's only been a few years. They recommend WOCA products for maintenance. I've done a few WOCA floors and the maintenance products are easy to use. All that said, oil finishes aren't for everyone. While there are advantages, some people seem to be averse to doing anything more than the minimum to maintain their floor. Personally, most of the wood floors in my house will soon be finished with hardwax oil but I have the luxury of owning several buffers and of employing people who can maintain my floors on slack days. I like the idea of retouching and being able to spruce them up without moving all the furniture. Our dog died right after my first floor was completed so I don't know how it will hold up to dog drool but I'll probably be testing that within the next month or so.

Thank you for all your help everyone. I'm a bit more clear now on this subject but I'm sure I will have some more questions as they pop into my head. There's so much conflicting information out there that it's hard to get it all straight and figure out what the facts are.

Well, I've already thought of another question. LOL. Greenworld Industries uses Treffert UV Oil finish. Is this a brand of oil (hwo)? Or is Treffert the process? Is Treffert supposed to be a holy grail or something? They make it sound like it's the best of the best but don't tell you what it is.

http://www.monarchplank.com/mp-technical/oil-reactive-training/

Here, above is where I got a lot of my information on these oil finishes. And other kinds of finishes, as well. Lots of information in here. You can see where they have hardwax oil finish and uv oil finish listed as separate kinds of finishes. Very confusing. Or maybe I read it wrong.

that link has a decent amount of information, i tried reading it but i had to stop because there was a lot more opinion based thoughts on the types of finishes and less facts. obvious to me that they were trying to push one type over the other.

gregmills, what you state above is what I'm trying to decipher. I'm just a homeowner looking for facts and it's hard to decipher what is true and what is not if you're not a wood floor specialist, and THAT I am not. I can't seem to figure out what is fact and what is fiction.

It's pretty simple. As I wrote earlier, there are two types of oil finish, standard and hardwax oil. One has wax, the other does not. Greenworld recommends using WOCA cleaners so their finish is standard oil like WOCA, not hardwax oil.

The author of the piece you linked to seems to neglect that there are also standard oil finishes that aren't UV cured but perhaps it's because they're looking at it from a prefinished standpoint.

jfcwood: you just made my case of how confusing this can be for just a regular homeowner trying to get the facts.

The Greenworld product I'm looking at is UV Oil cured. I had no idea what this was. Earlier in this threat Cancork explained that UV Oil = hardwax oil (not natural oil). So that would tell me that the Greenworld product is a hardwax oil that has been UV Cured at the factory. If it's UV OIL cured then it's a hardwax oil floor. And Greenworld is a prefinished eng. product.

So . . . I'm just as confused now as I was when I originally posted.

I could be wrong but I believe that what I wrote both times is correct. I see nothing on the greenworld site indicating their finish is hardwax oil. When I referenced the maintenance instructions from greenworld and pointed out how they recommend WOCA maintenance products, that further confirms my opinion that it's not hardwax oil. They are recommending the same product for maintenance that WOCA recommends on their standard oil finish.

Hey JFCWOOD, I agree that both of your statements are correct but my confusion, as I stated earlier, is that Cancork told me that when a product states that it is UV Oil Cured Finish, then that also means that it is a hardwax oil floor. Go back to the beginning of this thread and read what they say. This is why I'm confused.

I think that earlier statement is incorrect. I'm not unsure it's incorrect but it doesn't seem to be supported by any evidence I have seen. From what I've seen it appears that most UV cured oil finishes are oil finish, not hardwax oil.

OK. Well maybe Cancork will see this an explain and hopefully clear all this up.

@kpyeatt - I had explained what "HWO" was. The definition for HWO = hardwax oil. It was simply a definition of the letters "H" "W" and "O". Oil finishes, Hardwax Oil finishes and Oil based polyurethanes (not to mention oil modified urethane and polyurethanes) all have the word "oil" in them. Each time the word "oil" is used, it means something different. And then there is UV cured.

That's where plenty confusion comes in. And yes, it is confusing. The best way to do this is to:

A) SEPARATE the categories (regardless of the how many times "oil" comes up)

B) Investigate each and every category

C) Choose the category of finish that suites your LIFESTYLE the BEST

As for "Treffert", it is a German company (GmbH). The "Treffert UV Oil finish" = a UV oil finish manufactured by Treffert.

A quick web search shows: "The Treffert GmbH organization is a world renowned producer of quality industrial wood finishes
and certifies that their UV Duro-Sealer and UV Anti-Scratch Top Coat
are environmentally safe and free of any harmful chemical compounds."

There you have it. Treffert is a brand.

Gotcha, Cancork. Yes, I think there's been a huge miscommunication and misunderstanding here.

when you said, "UV cured hwo = hard wax oil" I thought that you were trying to tell me that if a product says UV cured it means that it's a hard wax oil product. I understand what UV cure is but I thought you meant that if it's an oil product and it says UV cured then that means hwo....which is what led to my confusion about the Monarch article I sited above.

Greenworld Industries describes their product as Treffert UV Oil cured which I knew was a brand but doesn't give you a clue what exactly it is.

I guess I'm back to square one now and I still don't know which route to take as far as oil finishes go. Natural oil, hardwax oil, UV Cured Oil (and is this a true oil finish anyways?).

Thanks for the clarification, Cancork. Sorry for the confusion.

I believe it was Ultimate who confused you with "hwo" while you were figuring out what is UV oiled floor. And then Cancork and I tried to explain to you what was "hwo". Below is my understanding of all 3, correct me if I am wrong.

1. Natural oiled floors are finished one coat of oil at factory level, and then 2nd coat will be applied after the floor is installed, So wood floors finished this way can be claimed 100% green.

2. Hardwax oiled floors contain wax in the oil which can make repair easier.

3. UV oiled floors are the most popular ones on North American market now. They are finished all at the factory level with UV light to dry.

Some brand's uv oil contains so little percentage oil that you can maintain with regular polyurethane care product like Bona wood floor cleaner. I believe Treffert UV oil is one of them.

Some other brand's uv oil contains more percentage oil in its formula so that you want to maintain with oil finish care products like Woca.

A floor with factory finish uv oil that has good percentage of natural oil can be fully cleaned and reoiled in the future.

My Experience With UV-Oiled Floors

Unique, thank you for the info. Looking at Greenworld Industries website at the product I'm considering, they say daily maintenance for their UV Oil finish is the same as with a conventional UV cured urethane. But they say to use WOCA Natural Soap for regular cleanings and WOCA Oil refresher annually. So...I've decided their website is pitiful. I've never heard of using WOCA on a conventional UV cured urethane.

Greenworld is 10 minutes from my house here in Houston. I'll pay them a visit tomorrow and get the low down on this floor.

On another note, any preferences for types of floor finish out there? I don't mind some scratches if I can easily cover them. I think any floor will scratch but I wanna be able to cover scratches as best I can. I like the idea of a "low maintenance" floor but if that means a plastic looking floor that's gonna look terrible in a few short years, I'll take the more maintenance floor over that any day of the week. I hate plastic, dull, hazy. And I guess this just depends on the brand and the type and quality of finish they do. See how much I don't know. haha

Thanks everyone : )

kpyeatt, glad that i can help. Please update us your visit.

Just got home from my Greenworld Industries visit and now for my update. Went in and walked up to the receptionist's desk and she just sat there and looked at me like I had 3 heads. No greeting, no nothin'. So I told her "hi" in a cheerful voice and she barely uttered a hello. So I said, "how are you today?". Her reply, "what do you need?". I plopped my sample up on the counter and said I have a few questions that I'd like to ask about your product and I'm wondering if you can tell me why this wood sample is splintering". Her reply, "we don't sell to the public". Me - "I realize that. I'm not here to purchase I'm here to find out about your product". She said she could answer my questions so I asked her if she knew why this brand new sample I've only had a week would be splintering so badly. She said because it's a sample. I then asked her if I could speak with someone else who knows about the product. She popped up out of her chair and went to get someone . . . the Operations Manager. YAY. This little gal up front had quite the attitude and I was very close to telling her Greenworld could keep their product. I'd go elsewhere. Not sure I wanted to deal with a company like this. Bad impression from the get go.

The operations manager was quite the opposite. I'm sure she heard what was going on up front so she was quite the host. She was very nice and very helpful. I asked her what percentage of oil was in the product. She didn't know and is going to get back with me. I asked about maintenance and told her their website says routine maintenance with this floor is the same as a UV urethane floor. She looked shocked and she said that is definitely wrong and she needs to fix the webpage.

As far as the sample splintering, she said that when the samples arrive from China, they are probably dried out and probably just needs some WOCA Oil Soap on it to give it some moisture. Or she said just to rub it with some water. hmmmmm????? OK.

It is a 3mm dry saw veneer, 9/16" thick, 7 layer plywood core. Plywood core - is this good/bad/decent/normal?

She said she would call me and give me the percentage of oil used in the product. I forgot to ask her what type of oil they use.

I did tell the OM that I was considering this product and an Armstrong product and told her I didn't appreciate the "greeting" I got and that almost settled it for me...Armstrong. She apologized. She also took me back and showed me all the WOCA products and explained what each one is for. I did appreciate that. She was helpful.

I'm not sure I have a very good feeling about them now, though. The splintering bothers me. Unless a pro can verify that the information I received from her about samples drying out and splintering is, in fact, normal. I do prefer this floor over the Armstrong.

Thanks everyone.

Food for thought: If the SAMPLES come from China, where do the floors come from?

As for splintering, without photos of the sample, it is hard to say. Remember that samples are often cut from factory seconds. Instead of wasting the planks (tossing them away), the seconds can be sliced and diced to create colour samples. And a cut plank - no matter how it is manufactured - can start to splinter. It is the nature of wood. That would be splinters on the CUT edges. If you have splinters right in the middle of the piece that are several inches away from a cut edge, then there might be some question about quality. Again, without photos of splinters, we can only speculate.

But my question remains: If the samples come from China, where do the floors come from?

Cancork, not being a wood professional, I had no idea that samples are cut from factory seconds. But I'll remember this now that I know. And the splinters are on the cut edges, not in the middle of the plank. I don't know how to upload pics here, otherwise I'd post one.

I'll assume your question about China is a rhetorical one. Putting two and two together, one would assume the product comes from China if the samples come from China. I guess what you're really asking/maybe telling me is that floors from China are crap and you are going to get what you pay for. But again, I can only assume that this is the point you are trying to make. From all my research since October, what I have come away with as far as the "China issue" is that some floors that come from China are crap and some floors are good quality. What I haven't figured out from my research is WHICH floors from China are crap and WHICH floors are of good/decent quality.

My preference would be to do a solid, site finished floor. But I don't think that's a wise decision living on a concrete slab in Houston, TX. And there just are not that many engineered floors made in the USA. And the ones I have found are so heavily scraped I ruled them out quickly. Looking online, I have found some floors that I like, only to find that my floor retailer here in Houston cannot get that particular floor. I could order myself and forget my retailer but I'm not sure I feel comfortable doing that. That's another topic that I have found conflicting information on.

Unfortunately, the majority of these eng wood floors come from China. If anyone out there would like to tell me which Chinese products are good and which are not, I'm all ears. Otherwise, all I can do is find out everything I can about a particular product I'm interested in, weigh the different factors, make the best decision I can based on the information collected, and then cross my fingers and hope for the best.

@kpyeatt, thanks for sharing your visit to Greenworld. It was quite an experience!

Personally I prefer the UV oiled floors that are finished with either Woca or German Klumpp UV oil because the finished products tend to have a true natural oil look and feel. More importantly, both these uv oil manufacturers will tell you with no confusion that your floor can be maintained with Woca care products. It should be a big deal for home owners to know that there is a complete line of care products to use after investing thousands of $ for their new floors.

Unique - Oh yes, it was QUITE the experience, for sure! I'm not familiar with German Klumpp UV oil. I do believe Treffert (the one Greenworld uses) is German, as well. I can't find much info on the Treffert, tho. I'll look up Klumpp.

Unique, the Greenworld site recommends WOCA products for maintenance. There's a link to their page on my first post above.

kpyeatt, the splintering on the sample is likely caused by it being in an environment that was too dry. It's a well known issue for wood floors installed in areas where the humidity approaches zero for a portion of the year. You'll notice that the maintenance instructions stipulate that the indoor humidity be maintained between 30% and 50%.

Coincidentally the customer for whom I did a Greenworld oiled floor was in my showroom this week so I asked how her floor is holding up after three years. She's extremely pleased with her floor. It's in almost every area of her condo including the kitchen but she probably doesn't have extreme traffic. He daughter has the same floors that's several years older and she's also quite happy with it. It's a discontinued item that's a rustic Hickory with a gray pickled finish.

jfcwood, that's great to know! Thanks for asking her. I've actually never run across an oiled hickory floor. I've only seen oak.

The humidity issue with samples puts my mind at ease regarding the splintering. Our humidity level is right around 50% in our home. About a million % outside most of the time. UG.

Since you've installed the Greenworld product, is there anything you can tell me about the Treffert brand oil finish? I can't make heads or tails of their website. I've heard of WOCA, Rubio, Oldies, etc. but not Treffert.

@jfcwood, sorry I missed the link you posted early. I just spent some time reading it. Woca soap and red swep mop are way to go for caring uv oiled floors. Since most of them have textured surfaces, the spray bottle and micro fiber pad will not do a good job as to smooth semi gloss poly surface. We have not heard of Greenworld products before. Sounds like you have had good experience with it. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Unique, that's one reason I'm a bit concerned . . . not many people have heard of them.

kypeat,

Did you ever decide on a floor? I am in SW Houston area, and have been all over asking questions about using unfinished engineered hardwood and having them installed and finished with Rubio Monocoat or buying a prefinished line that uses Rubio Monocoat. Only found one finished lined and all the stains had a grey tinge too them.

Chris

Chris, I haven't decided on a floor yet. I look until I get frustrated and then quit looking for awhile. Then a few weeks later, I'll start again. It's been a frustrating experience. Sometimes I feel I know too much about what to look for and then it just seems to make the decision harder because I can't find exactly what I want. I know I definitely do not want anything with a gray tinge. I had briefly thought about doing an unfinished wood and then having it finished but haven't really put any serious thought into it. I guess I haven't done that because I don't have clue where to start looking for a great installer and finisher. I know this is key. All my furniture was put into storage in late November because we had floors show up Dec. 12. But they were the wrong color. I just haven't found anything else I'm crazy about and I know so much more now than I did in December. So in the mean time, we've been redoing 2 bathrooms.

taylor1584 Check out Garrison Collection French Connection

http://www.thegarrisoncollection.com/collection/french-connection/

We just finished one in Vintage White Wash. It looks quite nice (not gray). Their site says they use WOCA oil finishes.

the garrison collection french connection european oak cloud looks gray to me.

The Vintage White Wash I mentioned doesn't look gray.

kpyeatt, Did you end up using Greenworld Industries oiled floor?

M S, believe it or not I have not had my floors installed yet. Over a year later and we're still sitting on concrete. I got frustrated with the whole wood ordeal and decided to do two bathroom remodels first. I still have the Greenworld Artisan sample laying on my dining room floor and it's still my first choice ... I think. What about you?

kpyeatt,

Have you installed your floor yet and what did you use? I'm in Houston also and I'm feeling discouraged about engineered wood flooring. I bought a box of Provenza (UV cured oil) and it was splintering badly on edges just after removal from the box. I'm now considering Kentwood...

mickbrink, I haven't installed my floors yet. Still working on 2nd and final bathroom. But I've looked online a bit. Still discouraged. There's nothing out there that really wows me. That's disappointing about the Provenza. I'd never heard of Kentwood but just looked them up. I struggled with their website a bit and then got fed up. Too hard to navigate. Where did you locate the Kentwood?

kpyeatt, Houston Flooring Center and All Floors & More had the samples of the Kentwood. Color Interiors also ordered some samples for me. We bought sample boxes of Kentwood's Kalispell and Coalmont. Polyurethane finish but matte looking. There are some photos on Houzz with Kentwood floors and you can follow them on instagram. I like the look of the UV cured Oil finished floors but I can't seem to find a brand I trust. Seems like several stores push the Greenworld maybe because it's local (I'm in Tomball). I was hoping you installed it and had some experience.

We typically finish our floors with a UV cured Hardwax Oil, which is considered a repairable finish. https://www.woodco.com/news/when-choosing-a-prefinished-floor...-choose-an-oiled-floor/

mickbrink, I'm in Cypress/Tomball line. I had some samples at Houston Flooring Center and the All Floors & More place, as well (Chris). I got my Greenworld samples from Buffalo Flooring in Cypress (Kurt). I'll try and see if I can find the Kentwood floors. I don't think there's any perfect flooring. It's kind of a "pick your poison" type thing. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the Greenworld floor but as I said, I haven't looked in quite some time now. I'll start looking again once we finish this last bath remodel. As far as these shops are concerned, I like Buffalo the best. I didn't have a great feeling about the other two for some reason. Buffalo has been in business for years. Family owned. But if they don't have a floor I love then I'll go wherever that is.

I ordered several samples from Kenwood and liked none of them. I agree it really is a pick your poison sort of thing. It was very hard to find a wood floor that I love.

I've worked with Buffaloe (stange spelling) with a customer in the Lakeside Country Club area. Kurt is one of the more knowledgeable folks out there.

Thanks Uptown Floors and kpyeatt, I'm going to try Buffaloe.

Mickbrink - are you still out there??? I'm wondering what you decided to do about floors? Did you go with Buffaloe Floors? It's now August 2020 and I STILL haven't done anything. Still on plywood and concrete. Been remodeling other stuff but am ready for floors now. I hope you still check this site.

@kpyeatt so did you finally decide on a floor? Found all your research and all the comments on this thread really helpful. very much allowed me to nerd out on researching this. I'm having the same issue you mentioned before of not knowing which floors are actually "good quality" and also finding a cleaner/not as distressed floor. thanks!

hey zhen ding, I think* I've decided. I started looking again in July/August of this year. I brought home a lot of new samples and just was not "wowed" by any of them. I think the problem is that what I really want is solid oak floors and custom stained. But since I'm in Houston on a slab, that's just not the best way to go. Sooooooo after living on plywood and concrete since 2016 I just decided this week I'm going with one of my original picks....Greenworld Artisan line. Is it perfect? No. But so far it's the best I've found that was reasonably priced. AND I'm really, really just tired of looking and debating and researching this. AND our furniture has been in storage since Nov. 2016 and I'm just tired of having my house torn apart. At some point, you gotta just make a decision and get on with life. In the grand scheme of things, it's just a floor. I have Buffaloe coming out to measure again on Monday. Kurt was so helpful and patient almost 4 years ago when I was stressing over this. He always answered my questions thoroughly and never got irritated. Always brought me whatever samples I wanted. And he is very knowledgeable. I will probably get another quote but I did feel that the quote he gave me last time was fair. I'll try and remember to post back here. If I forget, just remind me.

To anyone still out there, we had our floors installed in Jan. '21 and April '21. Went with the Greenworld floors. Had Buffaloe Flooring do the install. Happy with the floors. Not happy with Buffaloe.