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henry_kuska

Oh? "Top Gun exhibited excellent natural resistance to ..rose rosette"

henry_kuska
7 years ago

The following is stated: "In our test gardens, Top Gun exhibited excellent natural resistance to powdery mildew, downy mildew, rust, black spot and even rose rosette disease, so common in other "tough" roses."

http://news-sentinel.com/living/Gardening-column--New-rose-catches-Master-Gardener-s-eye


Comments (27)

  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    7 years ago

    Oh give me a break. How's that for an unscientific opinion? Which is about what that article is worth. Grrrr.

  • Cori Ann - H0uzz violated my privacy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    And it's my favorite color for roses... red! Talk to me goose! Springhill doesn't ship this to CA... but it's worth checking out local nurseries to see who has it and what it looks like in person. Good find Henry. Thanks!

  • Cori Ann - H0uzz violated my privacy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    You don't think it's worth a shot Patty? I have all sorts of plants that don't say anything like that from a test garden. It's not scientific... not at all... but I think it's worth a shot. I'm gonna look into it. I like the look of it and if it's fragrant too.... it's coming home with me.

  • henry_kuska
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Unfortunately, the article did not explain the procedures used in their "test garden" so I cannot comment on how "scientific" their study was.

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    7 years ago

    They failed to mention it also acts as an elephant repellent.

  • fig_insanity Z7b E TN
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    It also attracts fairies, but only the blue-winged ones. You'll need to plant a true blue rose if you want to bring in pink-winged ones.

  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    7 years ago

    Cori Ann,

    I'll try to explain. I'm not really trying to put anything down. In 30 years of gardening and trying companies A-Z. You learn to tell the ones that can be trusted from those who will say anything to make a buck no matter how many people they hurt in their scams. There are so many folks who read on hear but never post. Some have a difficult time understanding how to tell the good from the bad. Believe me I sure don't know it all.

    I just kind of feel responsible at my age to help if I can save a person a buck. There are so many companies out there that are not worth the cost of their web site. Sad to say it seems there are several that operate on out right lies. With no way to stop them. We have entered the age say anything you want to with no repercussions.

  • stillanntn6b
    7 years ago

    When I saw "News Sentinel" in the article, I knew that was Knoxville TN. BUT the report is not for here, but by SpringHill Nursery. I would have hoped a Master Gardener might have a bit more critical acceptance of catalog descriptions.

    I wonder what the disease pressure is where they 'test' their roses?

  • Cori Ann - H0uzz violated my privacy
    7 years ago

    Got it Patty. So Spring Hill doesn't have the best rep. Good to know.

    I'm still going to be on the look out for Top Gun locally. It might take a year or two to show up locally, but it sounds like an easy care landscape rose that is worth a look.

  • Cori Ann - H0uzz violated my privacy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Does anyone know.... Where are the Weeks / Carruth test gardens? Aren't they here in CA... in central CA?

    If anyone on this thread from SoCal is going to a seminar or lecture in the near future where Carruth is speaking (he still speaks at seminars right?)... if you remember to ask him about this rose that would be great!!!

  • lucillle
    7 years ago

    You could always email him

    http://huntington.org/rosegarden/

  • lucillle
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Just received this email:

    Dear Valued Customer:

    Thank you for your email. Unfortunately we do not have a link regarding the disease resistance of the Top Gun shrub rose to rose rosette disease. We guarantee Top Gun is the best shrub rose you can grow.

    If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

    Sincerely,

    Brad #2614

    Spring Hill
    Customer Care


    I'll look around for the corporate office address, not 'Customer Service' and send the ad and this email both to them and the local state consumer fraud division.

  • fig_insanity Z7b E TN
    7 years ago

    Hmmmmph...even the claim that "we guarantee Top Gun is the best shrub rose you can grow" is quite the stretch of credulity.

  • lucillle
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Here is another email from Spring Hill:

    Here is the reply that I have from the rose breeder who makes the claim.

    regarding the question re: RRV. Please let me know if there is anything else I can provide.

    “We have done 5 years of trialing in NY, OH and TN trials (where the virus is very active) including additional testing done in public garden in TX without seeing any symptoms. One of the key element of our claim is that they tried for 2 years at University of Tennessee to infect the variety by tying symptomatic branches to the Top Gun plants trying to transfer the virus and so far they failed. That result combine with the tests done in infected areas as lead us to conclusion that Top Gun has good resistance to Rose Rosette.

    Here’s a section of an article I wrote for the American Rose Society:

    Something special happened during the trialing of Top Gun. While in the Tennessee trial in 2012, we had bad year of Rose Rosette Virus (RRV) spreading to the entire trial. Most seedling varieties (with over 300 in testing) showed symptoms of infection to the virus. Standing proud in the middle of a row surrounded by dying infected plants we found Top Gun. Further testing in the Ohio, Tennessee and New York trial along with University trials are giving us the indication that Top Gun is not only disease resistant to the major rose fungus but the variety is also showing strong resistance to RRV. That was quite a finding!”

    let me know if there is anything else I can provide.

    Vici #2723

    Spring Hill Nurseries

    Customer Care

  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    7 years ago

    In case anyone is reading this who is not familiar with Spring Hill Nursery this is a classic case of how to spread a tall tale with no factual evidence provided. RRV does not spread thru contact. It must contain an infected mite that will feed on the rose. The entire rose world would love to see the published study done by the University of Tennessee. Thanks for dealing with them Lucille.

  • henry_kuska
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    This is in the actual University of Tennessee description: " Therefore, we have set up trials in Tennessee with Dr. Mark Windham .........." "Rose plants for evaluation will be inoculated by placing mite infested shoots from plants showing symptoms of RRD on them."

    http://neilsperry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/SeptOct15_RRD.pdf

    Perhaps this is what the hybridizer was referring to when he stated: " they tried for 2 years at University of Tennessee to infect the variety by tying symptomatic branches to the Top Gun plants trying to transfer the virus and so far they failed.".

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    The last part of the thesis below describes another set of transmission testing experiments at a different University.

    http://media.proquest.com/media/pq/classic/doc/3901185471/fmt/ai/rep/NPDF?_s=mSvus0voY%2FoHpFMqc1eXtlMhUto%3D

    See Table 1, page 62 (of the thesis, not the PDF page).

    Also see Page 65 (of the thesis, not the PDF page).

    Please note that some roses passed some / most of the test - but not all.

    Only Stormy Weather passed all of the tests.

    Home Run (the pollen parent of Top Gun) was tested and seemed to have some resistance.

  • lucillle
    7 years ago

    Henry for some reason the second link is not working for me.

  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    7 years ago

    Thanks, Henry! Its nice to have some real data to look at.

  • Zack Lau Z6 Connecticut
    6 years ago

    http://magazine.nurserymag.com/article/may-2017/resisting-rose-rosette.aspx

    “We’re actively trying to get them infected,” Byrne says. “Basically,
    they take infected shoots with lots of mites and put it on the test
    material to hopefully get the mite to transfer and pass on the virus.”

  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    6 years ago

    This rose has absolutely nothing in its genetic back ground to make it immune. It's parents are not resistant. But once the rose has been tooted as resistant and someone makes a couple of million dollars who cares. Say it is true and they will listen. We are seeing this concept every where we look.

  • Sinan Duzyurek
    3 years ago

    I have to regretfully inform everyone that my top gun rose, which I planted last year with high hopes with regard to its presumed resistance to RRD, now has RRD :(

  • rosecanadian
    3 years ago

    Oh, darn. I'm really sorry. :(

  • Greg Hausman
    3 years ago

    I tried the TOP Gun Rose. The first year was great, but now all 5 plants present with classic Rosette. Too bad I promised my bride a rose garden looks like will have to have butterfly garden instead


  • rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ)
    3 years ago



    Patty W. zone 5a Illinois

    3 years ago

    This rose has absolutely nothing in its genetic back ground to make it immune. It's parents are not resistant. But once the rose has been tooted as resistant and someone makes a couple of million dollars who cares.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/12/arts/music/toots-hibbert-dead.html


  • rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ)
    3 years ago

    Interesting that this old discussion with Patty’s three year old comment was resurrected today, the same day that Toot’s obit appeared in the NYT.

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