Yes, you need a prep sink in the island to create a work triangle between it and the fridge and stove. Then move the stove over to create more counter space in your work area.

Can you open up the mudroom a bit to make more space by the front door?

I will let others critique your layout but as a mom of four, my advice is if you have room for a prep sink, get one. Your kids are young now, but as they get older and preparing their own breakfasts, lunches, etc, you will be happy to have two sinks. My kids are all teens now. I can't tell you how much I look forward to redoing my kitchen and having a second sink. Now, when I making their lunches (and yes, I do this b/c it's the only sane way in the morning to not have them all in the kitchen trying to make their own lunches and tripping over each other), I'll be washing and prepping fruit while someone else is trying to get a dish in the dishwasher, or dh is trying to make coffee, etc.. Having a second sink with a large family would be a huge help for us when our kitchen gets busy - I imagine others with many kids might agree! Obviously you can live without one, but if you can swing it, I'd highly recommend it.

Mom of 7 here. Yes to a prep sink!!! You and your family will make active use of it. I like the changes Mamagoose made.

There might come a day when you'd appreciate extra burners or two ovens. They aren't a must, but they are nice to have. I like having the extra space that our 42" cooktop gives us for large soup pots and oversized skillets (only 36" of pot space on our model, and I won't recommend our brand, sadly.) There also are double oven 30" stoves, so that could be another option, as long as your back can handle the super low bottom oven under the cooktop.

Some large families like to put in 2 dishwashers. We've had 2, and now one. Our pots are quite large, and our skillets are cast iron, and we hand wash our knives and cutting boards, so even if we had 2 units now, we'd still end up with some hand washing to do. We get along all right with the one unit most days. It's when we have company that we really run out of space in there. Usually we run our DW twice a day. If you cook with smaller pans and have lots of company or go through tons of dishes in a typical day, the extra dishwasher could really help. I don't miss the double Tetris puzzle of trying to fill both and make the best use of space, though. Nor do I miss the sense of overwhelm having to unload two dishwashers at once.

How exciting to get to make this new space for your family!

Instead of a family room addition have you considered a kitchen and mudroom addition?

We see a lot of additions on this forum and it's often much more functional for folks to put the kitchen in the addition rather than renovate the kitchen in it's existing location.

Can you post the layout for the whole main floor including your plans for the location and size of the family room and new stairs?

Mama Goose, wow that was fast! I love that microwave set-up, and having the dishes and dishwasher to the left does all of a sudden free up so much space in the corner. Great ideas. Thank-you so much!

I'm concerned that a small shallow pantry won't be big enough, though. I Think in my situation, a framed, step-in pantry will offer me more efficient and versitle storage.

I love hearing what works for other large families! Thank- you all! I go back and forth on the prep sink....driving myself crazy! There are so many obvious pros for doing it, but then I think I'll regret giving up a huge expanse of uninterrupted countertop on the island. Plus the cabinet base for a sink that could otherwise be a bank of drawers. Could I make the island bigger? Or would that start creating bottlenecks? What kind of storage can go under a large prep sink?

im okay with one dishwasher. So many of our pots and pans are so large, I end up hand washing after nearly every large meal anyway. Plus, I think handwashing is a very good skill for my kids to learn.

Here is a VERY VERY tentative ( and slightly out-of scale--sorry, I ran out of paper!) plan showing the new family room addition and possible location of the new stairs. I don't want to finalize too many plans for that aspect until we have a long sit-down with our contractor to talk about removing the exterior wall, and the span of the beam we want, plus it all has to fit into our basement plan, which is also in the planning stages and Can't be finalized until we get some thoughts and numbers from the contractor. The addition will have a full basement under it that will connect into our existing basement. And we need room for a piano, and a mid-sized home office (this will probably be bumped out of the addition a few feet, but we have to talk to the contractor about how it'll affect the exterior look of the house and the roofline.)

My husband's initial plan was actually a mudroom and kitchen expansion out the front of the house, but I just fell in love the idea of a huge new family room with tall ceilings and a fireplace....plus there's a beautiful tree out the front of our house I'd be very sad to tear down. But maybe those are foolish reasons, and we should rethink it all...

If it makes a difference, our house is a very simple rectangle, with only one roof-line (gabled, I think its called?)

Have you considered moving and buying a bigger house with a bigger kitchen? Might be a lot cheaper, and I can't imagine living through that renovation with 6 little kids!

Wysel, yes, we've considered building from scratch, but really the house (other then the kitchen) is in great shape.

Okay, here is another option I've drawn up. I'm not crazy about the corner pantry, but it does free up lots of room in our entryway and for a bigger island. I've also used Mama Gooses much better plan for the microwave and dishwasher placement.

And here is one more that is a bit different. I've been getting worried about how far away the dishes and dishwasher are from the dining table, so I made a second window along the range wall, and moved the sink and dishwasher there. I love the idea of having so much natural light, but The pantry and fridge seem a long way away from the action.

Also, I'm lost on what to do with the fridge wall. Second sink? A cute, but fairly useless window seat? Leave the French doors there (they lead onto the same deck as the front door, which is only a few feet away, which is why we were fine with replacing them with a window)?

Have you considered moving the living room to the kitchen location and making the addition you new kitchen. At least you'd have use of a kitchen while you remodel. ):

Our family has lived through three kitchen remodels; it's not exactly pleasant, but it can be done.

Do you have an extra fridge and freezer tucked away somewhere? You might need them when your kids are bigger. Yes, you're going to want a big pantry, if possible. Ours is the size of thecorner pantry you drew, and I wish it was bigger. We buy bulk flower, oats, rice etc, and they're all space hogs.

"...while I'm not behold to anything in my proposed layouts, I do love having the sink centered on the window. My current sink is facing a blank wall, and I hate it."

You probably hate it b/c it's the only sink and you do all your prep work there in addition to cleaning up. However, if you start prepping on an island, you will no longer spend that much time at the perimeter sink - in fact, make that everyone else's sink and the prep sink yours! :-)

Your kids are old enough to start helping, so (1) get that second sink! and (2) have them use the perimeter sink while they're helping, including helping clean up by washing and/or drying the pots & pans!

I'm the oldest of six kids and we did not have a DW at all (my mom always said she already had 6 dishwashers, why buy one?) We started helping out well before we were 10. BTW...there are only 6 years 10 months b/w me and my youngest sibling - and no multiple births!

[Yes, my mom has a DW now - shortly after 4 of us were out of the house she decided to get one!]

I'm not saying you cannot put the sink in front of a window, I'm just commenting on your statement.

Regarding the prep sink in the island -- you're not giving up that much space - only 21 to 24 inches, depending how wide a sink you get.

BTW...the island should be at least 41.5" deep - yes those extra 1.5" can make a difference! The minimum recommended seating overhang is 15" - and that's the minimum! If you're a tall family, I would increase it to 18" (I wish we had!)

.

FYI...Kitchen work studies show:

• 70% or more time/work spent in the Kitchen is spent preparing a meal or snack [Prep Zone]
• 20% or less is spent cleaning up - and that includes not just sink work (hand washing pots & pans), but also non-sink work such as loading the DW (if you don't pre-rinse your dishes), unloading the DW, clearing the counters & table, wiping down the counters & table, and sweeping up at the end of the day. [Cleanup Zone]
• 10% is spent cooking - stirring, adding ingredients, watching food cook [Cooking Zone]

.

Do you have any pictures of the current space? (Don't worry if it's not "pretty", it's a "before" picture and we all have working Kitchens so we know they're not always pristine!)

I'm struggling a bit with the dimensions of the space - they don't seem to work out. Here's what it looks like based on your stated dimensions, but it doesn't look like your layout - in particular, the front entry spacing with relation to the "bottom" hallway & DR walls - your drawing shows the entry w/o the stairs ending b/f the DR wall starts, but based on the stated dimensions, it doesn't work out that way.

Could you please correct my drawing? Tell me which dimensions I seem to have gotten wrong!

Yes, my mom has a DW now - shortly after 4 of us were out of the house she decided to get one!

Not helpful for the OP at all, but I was skimming through and interpreted DW as a different acronym than dishwasher. I was like, oh well good for her! I'm mid-reno and sleep-deprived...

Hmm, putting the family room and office where the kitchen is, and making the addition a new kitchen/dining room. Interesting...wheels are turning! That would give us a lot more freedom to make our entrance and mudroom bigger. The only drawbacks would be: our main entrance would open directly Into the family room (though its right into the kitchen now, so not much difference, I guess) and there would be no nice high ceiling in the family room, but we could do high ceilings in the kitchen....lots to think about.

yes, I have two freezers amd an extra fridge in the basement. And a big pantry and big fridge are a Must Have.

And you all have convinced me--yes, I need a prep sink! Preferable one that's large enough to be useful.

Buehl, your mom sounds amazing. That's a lot kids In a short time--very impressive! I get my kids to help out lots, and one of the best things about getting a bigger kitchen is going to be teaching them to cook (and clean-up!)

We are a tall family, so I love the he idea of makeing the island bigger.

Buehl, I'll grab a measuring tape right away. My six-year-old helpd me measure, so I'm going to blame him!

Current kitchen and dining area photos. The sink wall is the one coming down. The door by the dining room table are the ones that would become a window for a sink in the first proposed layouts.

Is yours a ranch style house? If so, The present kitchen and living room could probably be vaulted. This is the best example vaulting I can think of off the top of my head. Check it out: http://www.housetweaking.com/2014/02/24/what-it-took-to-vault-the-ceiling/

"The only drawbacks would be: our main entrance would open directly Into the family room (though its right into the kitchen now, so not much difference, I guess)..."

I think I'd rather the entry be in the Family Room - it reduces traffic in the Kitchen! And, it would probably be a more pleasant entry than in the Kitchen - especially when the Kitchen is in-use prepping a meal!

I removed the stairs and the wall between the current kitchen/living room. This is NOT to scale, but all the measurements are accurate. ( I guess I never realized how much longer the living room is compared to the kitchen. This drawing is inaccurate, but the numbers are correct.)

I would not move the stairs. It sounds costly and I don't think it's necessary.

You have an awesome opportunity for a 14.5'+ mudroom! Each family member could have a dedicated 21" wide locker type of space. I think it would be fantastic.

I'd widen the opening to your present laundry room and totally open the other end to the hallway. You could line the wall with benches with shoe storage below, coat hooks with shelves and/or cabinets above.

With a five foot opening at each end and a 42" wide walkway, you shouldn't experience the traffic jams like you do now.

eta: I also was thinking that the stairwell wall would be a perfect location for your television :-)

Is there a nice view in certain directions that we should try to maximize in our suggestions? Which way is south (to maximize natural light)?

OK - I have to bail tonight as it's almost midnight (yikes! the last I looked it was 10:53!) and I have an early morning meeting at work tomorrow.

You're in good hands with BenjesBride. I'll check in sometime tomorrow and try to find time to continue working on this.

Good night!

thanks so much! You all are the best.

the front door faces North to our driveway, and new addition is straight South. We are on a farm, have a large yard and are spoiled with lots of outside space and great views in all directions. North and East are great. Straight south there is a boring row of spruce trees and the worst view, unfortunately.

im just in love with a two door idea and amazing long mud room! That would be so, so nice. Currently my extra-large capacity washer and dryer are along the north wall, dryer vented outside, and they need three feet (at least) in front to open the doors. And I do a TON of laundry. Any thought on squeezing them in there?

I have an idea for a laundry room. Maybe 7x10ish. I'll try to get to it tonight.

Hi, another mom of 7 here (ages 14y-5m). We are nearing the end of a huge kitchen/dining remodel (our 2nd, 1st remodel was in previous house). I like the idea of switching your living room and kitchen to expand your options and possibly avoid moving the stairs. I am glad to hear you are convinced on the prep sink. I am super excited about mine and think it will be a great asset, though, like you, I was worried about the lack of "expanse" on the island. What I did to solve that was to make my island all one level with no seating. That way there is prep and storage space on both sides and on the end (see pic of my island floor plan below). At the other end, I have an attached table-height area with room for 3 people (or more if they use benches). I knew there was no way I could fit seating for all of my children at the island so I gave up that idea at the beginning.

I had a large 8' x 3.5' island at my last house with seating on one side and no prep sink. While I loved the island "expanse", it drove me batty how my children would sit at the island with their papers or projects or toy cars or schoolwork (we homeschool) or whatever and slowly encroach on my work space. The difference in height will make the boundaries very clear! It is also easier for littles to get up and down on regular chairs than barstools. This might be something to consider for your situation.

I tried plugging in a kitchen in your 22x22 addition and it looks to me like it's probably 4 feet too deep. I'm wondering if you could do 18' deep, but 28' wide addition. I'm thinking that if the addition also goes behind the existing bathroom you could put a laundry room and more storage or maybe a powder room on the west side of the kitchen.

I can't draw out what I'm thinking right now, but here's my attempt at drawing up a kitchen that gives you an eastern and living room view from the sinks. You'll see that even with a huge island there's a lot of open space between the kitchen and the dining room.

Roughly, something like this with a laundry room and a powder room or extra storage tucked behind the bathroom

I like exploring the idea of the kitchen in the back of your house. I don't like the idea of the entire place being taken in all in one view from the front door, though, and would like to see some sort of separation or division of space between the front and the back. Believe it or not, houses feel bigger with some dividers, and they are much more comfortable to live in that way, too. You can read The Not So Big House by Sarah Susanka for a good explanation of this. It's at Amazon and chances are good your library system might have it available. I recommend anyone considering remodeling or building read her books, they're invaluable.

You mentioned wanting a big stone fireplace. How about making that the divider between the front room and the back kitchen and dining area? You could center it in the space, with large walkways on either side that would give you good sight lines between the rooms, but not quite give all the secrets away, either.

See Here for pictures of fireplace between rooms for ideas.

Benjesbride, oh that huge beautiful kitchen! I can just imagine all the amazing natural light I could have.

the addition can become smaller, of course. save us some money, but unfortunately it can not go any farther West (the direction you put a new laundry room) due to bedroom windows along that exterior wall. 22 feet is the max going east/west.

i also realized that the hall closet which would be eliminated in the mud room plan is where the main outlet for my central vac. Is located. Right in the middle of the hall closet floor. Any idea how hard those are to relocate?

and my husband--ever practical--pointed out that with the crazy amount of snow we get (Northern Canada) the only safe way to vault the ceiling would Be completly new rafters. I'm going to double check this with the contractor, but my husband is usually right (but dont tell him I said that!) so thats not an option.

PookieMama, I homeschool, too! One of the reasons the family room is planned to be so large is so I can fit a second table there for the kids to do their schoolwork, where I can still easily supervise them. And my husband wants a office framed somehow into the family room or dining room area. (His "office" right now is currently also the baby's room, and it drives him crazy that he can't go In There while she's' sleeping.)

Another idea: instead of totally relocating the stairs, we could just rotate them, so instead of them starting right in the entrance way, they would start in the hall. That would eliminate much of the crowding that occurs in the front entrance, too. But then my pantry can't be there anymore...hmmm...

im so glad we started this planning process so early...

Have you talked to a contractor yet for ballpark pricing? An addition like this with a new basement and moving stairs and a new kitchen would probably run 100-200k easy in my area.

Brainstorming a different approach...

What if the bedroom became the kitchen and you put a master suite, laundry room, office addition on the west side of the house, extending the hall? Can you sketch up the whole main level? Is extending to the west an option?

Another idea to consider. Leave your living room where it is, but remove wall between your living room and kitchen to enlarge your living room. Leave stairs, maybe rearrange laundry room. Keep table in existing location with patio door. Add an addition next to the former kitchen on the east side of the house. Better views from windows and not the first room you see upon entry.

Thanks so much everyone! So many great ideas. Its so helpful to have so many unique plans and perspectives.

After a lot of back and forth, a million ideas, (and maybe even an argument or two...) my husband has laid down the line: the kitchen/laundry room has to stay on the North side of the house (something to do with plumbing stuff and the HVAC set up of the house and basement.)

our natural gas line is directly in the center of the East side of the house, so we can't do much in that direction. Unfortunately. I don't know much about moving gas lines, but I can't see it being cheap. Does anyone know what it all involves? Renovating has so, so many unforeseen restrictions!

We've talked to a few friends of ours who are contractors, plumbers, etc, and their advice, for the most value for our money, is a family room/office to the south. The Bedrooms (West side) of the house have all just been re-carpeted and painted, so we would like to leave the whole West side of the house alone.

Things that CAN be changed and worked with: The stairs being moved or rotated, the front entry/mudroom can be tweaked, and the size/shape of the addition --to an extent--can be modified.

And, most important, planning an amazing kitchen layout with a nice big pantry, island, and a prep sink (which I'm getting pretty excited about!)

Do you have to (want to) keep the slider at the front of the house?

With the help of our neighbor (a residential home inspector) my not-particularly-handy husband moved our gas line.

Is husband saying you can't move the sink plumbing at all? Or just not into the addition?

by "slider" do you mean the French/patio doors by the current dining room table? I'm totally fine with them being changed into a window, but I do want some natural light in the kitchen.

the sink can move anywhere on the North side of the house. He just doesn't want to deal with any plumbing in the new addition on the south end.

hmm, I may have to make a few inquiries about moving that gas line! Other then the gas line and two spruce trees that would have to be removed, the east side of the house would work for an addition.

I started down the rabbit hole of putting the kitchen in the present living room so you could maintain a "front room" and have some visual separation between the front door and the kitchen.

The big 6x12 box behind the island is a pantry/storage area. I thought perhaps maybe you could split in into a small laundry room and a step in pantry or just all storage.

Open the design

Here's putting the kitchen at the front. I still think the stairwell is probably best in it's present location. I was thinking you could put storage on the bedroom wall and this time align the front of the pantry closet with the stairwell wall.

I think the range remains in the same location and the french doors could be reused in the new dining room.

Your entry way would feel better if you changed the door swing and made the entry at least five fee wide.

Open the design

Oh, that's great. Nice and open! Thanks.

we are still debating on the stairs. It makes a big difference in our basement layout as well.

Does anyone have a pantry that's out of the immediate kitchen area? I love how big the pantry is in the layout, but want to make sure that it's okay to have it so far away.

We are in the middle of a major kitchen remodel with 6 children from 3-12. We completely re-imagined the main area of our home, moved the kitchen, knocked out walls, installed beams, vaulted the ceilings, installed sky lights over the island area, etc. Most of the plans laying around have scribbles and tweaks that we have added as the process has continued. For perspective, the island is 13'. Ignore most of the door swings on the plans..the french doors in the kitchen are outswing, there is no door from the kitchen to the small entry...laundry has a slide door, playroom/library have pocket glass doors...

Legacy Reno, what an amazing plan! I love your huge pantry and all the seating at the island!

If you don't mind me asking you a few questions, since you have the same number of kids and similar ages:

1)how big if your living room/family room. ( I'm hoping to do 22 by 22, but need room for a upright piano, fireplace, plus couches to seat everyone. It looks HUGE on paper, but I want to make sure it'll still seem big when the whole family is crowded inside!)

2) is that a fridge/freezer in your pantry? How much fridge space do you have? I feel there can nevertheless be too much, and I'm worried I won't have enough!

3) we want to (hopefully) vault our ceilings, too. How high did you go? Are you pleased with the results?

4) any other kid-friendly advice you have for a kitchen design , or living through a reno? Are you guy doing it yourselves? It'll be so, so worth it once its done!

1. Our living room is about that size. Works fine for us. In the remodel I did make room for a grand piano in the entry and will be putting the practice piano in the smallest bedroom that will become music/guest/sewing/etc.

2.Yes it is a full size fridge/freezer and the largest upright freezer in the pantry area. We will be moving the samsung french door fridge in there and putting a new fridge/freezer in the kitchen. Cant wait. I hate the Samsung fridge. Every single shelf on the doors has broken, all the drawers, the bottom ice maker twice. We have replaced every shelf and within weeks they are cracked again. Never again! We do have a chest freezer shared between family that stores things like extra venison, beef, etc.

3. This is a 70's sprawling ranch. All 8' ceilings prior to remodel. In the kitchen area we put in two 30' beams. At the highest point we now have 13' and in the family room we added one ridge beam and now we have just over 11'. The entry is also now vaulted. Absolutely worth every penny! Planning to do the same to our master bedroom! My dh is 6'7", my 12 year old is already 6'...very happy to have some extra breathing room. Of course with a bunch of tall kids the goal is now to be able to jump and slap the beams. I have threatened that I will go after the first hand print I find....

4. We have done most of it ourselves as far as demo, framing, electrical, plumbing, etc. Have contractors for drywall, insulation, cabinets, and flooring. Living through a reno like this? I'll let you know if I make it! We have used a bedroom as a kitchen. Has our table, fridge and a stainless table I previously used as an island. Closet became the pantry. Honestly, it is horrible. I won't sugar coat it. I am so tired of paper plates. The best thing we purchased was the largest Blackstone flat top griddle. We cook outside on that as much as possible. With the weather nice I also like to eat outside. We lost kitchen, living, laundry, etc during the remodel. Thankfully my boys have a washer and dryer in their bathroom, but even that has been difficult. We have a generously sized room that we use as our playroom/library/homeschool room. It is now also doubling as the living room since we added a couch and a small tv on the bookshelf. Can I say again how happy I will be when this is all over?