Thanks esh_ga. Yes I do know it will shade eventually, so will have to be careful. Some of the area will get afternoon shade now since the evergreens have been in for 5+ years now and are growing at a rate of 1 foot a year. I looked up Calycanthus floridus -- my books here say full sun so will it take some shade? I can also put those that require more sun on the outer edges of this "woodland". And I'm glad I did this post as see my mind didn't even go to viburnum (other than was considering some viburnum trilobum) even though I have some in the yard! I just recently bought Dirr's Viburnum book so I will check all those out since I have none of the varieties you mentioned. Do lantanoides, lentago and cassinoides need any special consideration for pollinators. I know I have viburnum trilobums that are not giving berries so I am going to put in another cultivar this year. I have a Viburnum plic. F. tomentosum (Shasta). What would pollinate with that?? The ceonothus is not listed in my garden catalogues so I will have to do more research on that one. Elderberry I have a couple Sambucus nigra 'Madonna' in another bed but find them too fast a grower for what I want to maintain in this area. I also planted Black Beauty one year and was very unhappy (greenish black not black foliage). Could have been mislabeled but again in our area they grow like weeds so too much maintenance in this back area I think. If you put in some dogwoods what kind would you consider? I have Ivory Halo, Elegantissima and Flaviramea elsewhere in the yard as well as one native cornus alternifolia. Thanks again, this helps me think outside the box! Sharon

your problem is defining 'shade' ... shade can be a dark grotto under 200 year old trees ... or it can be so bright you need sunglasses ... and will get a sunburn ... in the former.. most things will lose vigor ... in the latter.. you can grow nearly anything ... in the olden days.. one might suggest you take a camera light meter and find out just how much light is there ... if i understand properly.. the wall is on the south side .... and creating the shade.. just move the plants as far as you can from the wall ... and plant whatever you want ... full sun is usually said to be 8 hours .... if your spot only has some shade around noon.. you are way past the full sun requirements of most plants ... as to what plant.. whatever you little heart desires .. start at a high end nursery ... see what spikes your interest... see if you can find it smaller online ... then bring some of your ideas back here.. and see if the crabby folks above have any specific ideas about what you are thinking about .... it is really hard.. for us across the WWW universe to simply spew out ideas specific to your garden ken

well ... hmmmm .... you are on the right track ... but working on the wrong variables ... i am going to come at it from another angle ... hosta are VERY HEAVY WATER USERS ... and they use the most water.. in the most heat .. which is why they struggle in the deep south ... they simply cant pump enough water to offset the loss ... and part of that is ... night temps.. they can cope better up here in MI because at night it cools considerably ... hosta actually sweat ... transpire ... in england.. which is above the 60th parallel.. or 2/3 of the way to the north pole.. they are ALL FULL SUN ... partly because the sun barely shines.. lol .. but also because of the declination of the sun.. the British are a pasty peeps.. because the sun is not as strong.. so the hosta can cope ... compare that to LA.. and you can see a stark difference. .. so.. hosta can grow in full sun .. hosta are only shade tolerant.. but the sun .. or conversely.. the shade is not really the issue.... its all about how effectively they can pump.. enough water. and if they have a recovery period to cope ... the fact that a hosta looks ratty in late summer.. is more a function of not enough water.. rather than too much light ... ken ps: zone.. which is.. in its simplest form.. MINIMUM WINTER TEMP ... has nothing to do with it .... pps: i have tons of wood hyacinths.. i dont know why you failed with those.. unless there are multiple plants under that common name ... ppps: hosta also have a requisite dormancy period.. and if you go too far south.. they dont get it ...

"Will the cypress work in a very shaded location?" No. Will probably last even less time than the Sky Pencils. Italian cypress are a full sun plant. The hollies should have done better than what you describe. But growing shrubs or trees long term in a container brings with it a specific set of circumstances that need to be met properly to get the best results. And those include selecting the best sized container for the plants in question, using a durable, fast draining potting soil (avoid stuff like Miracle Gro), watering and fertilizing as necessary (in warm summer climates, watering may need to be a daily or twice daily affair) and repotting and root pruning as necessary.