Wise ways to align incentives in building contracts?
kawerkamp
7 years ago
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Anglophilia
7 years agokawerkamp
7 years agoRelated Discussions
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Comments (40)I'd add in, "Listen to your architect and builder." This adds the caveat to make sure they know what your budget is and that you will LISTEN to advice on maximizing it. I've had both of them explain calmly and gently that something I wanted to do is probably going to be ghastly expensive. And then proffer an alternative that helps get closer to what we want without spending needlessly. If you listen at the front end of the project regarding siting, design, and site development, you'll save yourself so much more money than can be squeezed out of the budget by altering finishes at the end. Some things I've just had to give up on entirely, but I think I'll be happier in the long run for having heeded professional experience. Now, I'm not trying to build a house for $50/sq ft or otherwise get ridiculously under the market rate. But my husband and I were just talking about prioritizing our budget. Which, for us, means spending money on the things that either cannot be changed or would be very difficult to change later - structural elements, windows, etc. Finishes can be upgraded later, built-ins can be added, etc. I find that if you are upfront with most professionals you work with about wanting to be cost-conscious, they'll suddenly become a font of information about how to do so. It helps to be friendly, polite, and not condescending when you do so. Often I've had this happen when I go to one of them and say, "I'd like to do A, but it's sort of expensive." It is not unusual for the response to be, "Well, if we do B, C, and D over in these other areas of the house, we can probably free up enough of your budget for A. And that's really cool, and now I want to do it, so let me go think about it some more." Most of the time, they go think about it, and then come back with an even better idea. Cultivate your pros. They know so much more about their craft than a youtube video does. (Side note: Most of them also seem to like homemade chocolate chip cookies). Also note that this approach is more likely to get you what you want than telling them, "I want A, and Google says that it shouldn't cost me more than $X, so I think you should do it for that even though you quote more."...See MoreBuilders, pricing, contracts - what do you all think?
Comments (28)Mightyanvil, Thank you for the contract breakdowns, I really appreciate that. That is definately part of what I was looking for, ways to create a win/win for us and our eventual builder. We have someone we are interested in using but have not talked specific contracts yet. There seems to be some perception that 1. I am not interested in quality and 2. that I don't realize the potential costs of quality and the unforseen. I appreciate that you are trying to warn me -thanks. I do understand these things and am trying to be prepared for them. What I was trying to get at is that somewhere out there there is a good contractor who will look at a project and take into account our site, our materials choices, our plan, etc. and come up with a bid or projected budget and a price to build our home based on all those things plus whatever he/she needs to make it work, do the job and continue to run a business successfully. Fine with that. There is also someone out there who will do all the same things and will take opportunities to increase the profit he/she takes from the job without offering any additional quality or service to the owners. My whole point is that from my point of view the second scenario is not okay with me and I was wondering what others had done and how they felt about their experiences. I would like to guard against scenario #2 if I possibly can. I know if I choose more expensive materials I will also have to increase the labor portion because it will take more skill from the tradesperson required to do the job. We do want a well built home and know that we will have to make choices and potentially sacrifices to get the things that matter most to us. When I was projecting our budget I took the averages from about 5 different sources of information and then depending on my ability to verify how that would apply to the home we are building I would either use the highest number if I didn't know or the amount that seemed to fit best with our project. There were some items that I was able to verify by actually going out and getting real numbers others by saying 'we are building a home next year it will be (description)if I am looking for 'x' and I budget 'y' is that reasonable? In the 'unknown' areas I spoke to a friend who owns his own concrete flatwork company, he has built several of his own homes. One of his sites was in our neighborhood and similar to ours, so in my basic labor and materials budget I took the amount he paid for excavation and tripled it for safety. I compared that to the prices others have paid in 'hairy situations' and my number was always the highest. We have already dug some on the property as we put in the septic and the excavator at that time did not feel we would have a problem *from what he could see and had experienced on our site* digging the hole for the house. I took the highest foundation cost and added 50%. We have city water, septic is in and we have electrical ready to go. This home will replace a manufactured home so our permits are inexpensive-about 1/3 of what it would be otherwise. When I got my budget together I looked at the overall total and added 10% to the entire thing. I did find that some numbers varied more than others and were harder to pin down. Other times the same number kept popping up so I felt I must be close and the 10% on top of that should cover it. I actually showed this budget and the plan to the builder we are considering and she gave me the feedback that most of my numbers are 'conservative'- in her terms which meant 'high' and we should be fine. Even if our budget goes over another 10% from that we are ok -including the fee amounts she quoted us for her services. At the time the plan we had been considering was built as a spec house nearby and we had gone through it several times. When I contacted the builder I explained that we really liked his house and were considering building that home ourselves. We shared with him information about our property and our time frame and we talked about the finishes in the house and the different things he was including. When he gave me the price for the home as built but on our site it was about 16% higher than our highest number and it did not include everything. Based on comments some have made, maybe it was still a 'fair' number but then again maybe not...in our county you can look up valuations on permits and the price he quoted for house only was $100k over that amount and it was $200k over what he told the county his cost was. In talking with my concrete contractor friend who has built his own homes he told me that builders usually underestimate their expenses for the county but that the county gets very close and they include approximately a 10% 'contractor markup' in their valuation. Enter builder #3, nice guy, only builds turnkey, fixed price. Not sure why he was interested in us as we were very up front that we did not think we would go that way. He was trying to convince us why we should I think. He was very helpful and actually wanted to see our site. He has just finished carving half a hillside out for a huge custom home which we toured so he knows about 'hairy excavation' and he looked at our site and said it was about average for our area and he didn't see a problem. Famous last words I know... anyway he ballparked a price about 10% less than the higher guy and about 9% above our 'cost plus' budget. This makes sense as he does need that 'coverage' in there, but...we had already added that to our numbers so...either we are still way off or...make of it all what you will. The highest number is out of our budget, the middle number is doable and the low number means new furniture, nice landscape etc. Guess which one I am planning on? Guess which one I am HOPING for?! :) So perhaps some will say this all bears no relevance to an actual project and maybe it doesn't. I am not trying to control every aspect, just educate myself and be prepard so that hopefully we make a good choice when we do finally sign that contract. I just wanted to know what everyone else was thinking about builders, pricing and contracts and how to best go about building a home for a 'fair' price. We are committed to building a house, it will be interesting to see what it will actually cost. Thanks all....See MoreLennar incentives in SD.........
Comments (6)the point I was trying to make above is that the market may be deteriorating at a pace LOT faster than you think. But perhaps they were seriously over priced to begin with? Not every area in CA is worth the prices they are asking. Lots of developers do this, build in undesirable locations with high prices. They can't expect premium price in a neighborhood like that. New construction by me is going for close to $400k. They appear to still be selling at that price. At a little over $225k our house is move in ready and just about everything will be new by then (roof, AC, now the furnace). In the area we bought in, new construction was less then where we now live, with better upgrades & more land. I was on another forum, someone posted their 1-5 year old house for sale, it was in the area we just bought in. I let her know I was a buyer in her area & told her that she's competing with new construction (lots of it) and that her house was more then some with upgrades. I'd asked for her MLS #, she told me to look in that price range, I would be able to find it. I did along with a few others. I saved these few houses in my profile, out of them, only one started dropping price, not her. After our bid was accepted, I went back and posted that we just bought, and gave her a link to the foreclosures in her area. She still hasn't budged. They are making close to $200k more then what they paid, but I guess that with other people posting, saying the house was a really good price and that by them it would sell for so & so. I didn't post back because so far she's had one post from an actual buyer in her area but instead of listening to that buyer, is listening to what people living hours from her are saying. The house was nice but at the price we got with our new construction, we couldn't touch hers. We were able to get the kitchen we wanted instead of having to settle for what she picked. We also got the exact floor plan we like. We also saved close to $60,000....See MoreNew Build - Questions for Builder Before We Sign a Contract
Comments (133)@Rai Kai … I did learn so much!! Thanks for your contributions! @Beckysharp haha. I will be doing more research with the lawyer. I think overall my realtor was good—but I am not sure if overall we were the right fit. We will see if we stick with her. I know she put a lot of work and time into it --- so I do feel bad about us not going through with it. I will be doing more research and googling, and reading and using all my resources! Promise! @PitrateFoxy – I’ll probably be doing some research on a lawyer to have “on call” when we are at that point. You all were so right about all the other things – and I’m sure a few extra hundred bux (what like 500? ) will put me more at ease as I don’t like surprises unless they flowers, chocolate, or kisses :D @bellburgmaggie – isn’t that the truth. Alos.. Houzz app isn’t going anywhere! I love your story about finidng the right place! Man.. 3.5x your investment!! AWESOME!!! Were you ever concerned about over improving? That’s my biggest fear, especially if we buy very low… You know I always imagined buying the house with the crappy wall paper, shag carpet and pink or green tile in the bathrooms a horrible kitchen and then putting in my DREAM kitchen (or as im learning from houzzers, my 99% dream kitchen!). I think that’s something I was struggling with buying new. Even though I got to make a few selections… it wasn’t tailored to me really. So asking my husband in 3 years to redo the layout of the kitchen wasn’t going to fly :D Location location location is so hard for us. We are transplants – with family in the area, but are having a hard time finding the “right” home town. Everywhere we look is “safe” but I really want that neighborhood feel. I moved to Texas because I love saying yes sir, no ma’am, and I want to raise my kids like that. Sweet tea on the porch and waving to your neighbors. I want to make meals for new moms, or help out my grandparents when they need it. I may not have the Texas accent, and as the saying goes “I wasn’t born in Texas, but I got here as soon as I could!” @jannicone – I’m not deleting Houzz!! Just Realtor, Trulia and Zillow :D It may only last a week, but I need some distance! But I will use it as a resorce to keep an eye on the market and see what really happens during “selling” season. Happy to be sorta liked! @Denita , I should know better. I’m a firm believer that EVERYTHING is negotiable and if you aren’t willing to make any changes (they may not have lost me if they let me go to the design center and let me have 2 extra days – would have cost them nothing) I’m not inclined to play ball. Especially in an industry where negotiation is nearly expected. Looks like I have some more homework and research to do! I may need to find a new realtor. Not that she wasn’t good. I felt like she was doing a good job – but I’ll never know if she asked the builder for things. She did make us feel like her only clients, and she was very attentive and listened to my concerns. But I did get a slight feeling that she was “building” up the home a little more than she should have. We signed a contract for 6 months with her. She led with “if at any time you are done with me, I’ll just rip it up.” Who knows if that will come back to bite me in the butt. But, also thought we were going to end up with the first house and it would all be over. Again, lack of experience on my part. I've done some research on how you should select a buyers agent... and I did kind of do it all wrong....See MoreUser
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoRenee Texas
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