They always say do groups of plants for bigger impact in groups of 3, 5 or 7. Personally, I would try and combine the groups so that you have different types of foliage together (i.e. try and keep the liatris further from the daylilies so you keep the spikey foliage apart, maybe putting the gladiolus between the two groups would be best and try and get your groups into triangles.....So something like this, with A = Daylily, B = Liatris and C = Gladiolus. A A B B A C B C C

Robert, thank you so much. They do make it a bit confusing huh?! I am not a perfectionist. Just a "rightist" (which can make you just as nuts) Proceeding with the layout of my 3 new beds will be easier now. At least in my head LOL! Now the roses just need to follow directions, riiiiight, lol. Elaine, to answer your question (and more), all of them! Actually, I bought the DA collection from J&P (bareroot) 7 plants and had a few DAs already and then just purchased 3 from Armstrong (sale 2 for 1 :-) ). Just for the heck of it here is the list of what I have (so far): Teasing Georgia Abraham Darby Charles Darwin Janet Golden Celebration The Pligrim- potted few years ago- now has a prominent spot in raised bed and doing wonderful! Windemere Crown princess Margareta Christopher Marlowe Geoff Hamilton-potted few years ago out of ignorance- in pathetic shape Falstaff Bishops Castle Geoff Hamilton-potted few years ago out of ignorance- in pathetic shape. A Shropshire Lad- potted few years ago out of ignorance- in pathetic shape. Jubilee Celebration- bareroot (knocked out of water for few hours) still doing nothing-canes. :-( Right now I just want to see the different DA and what they do. They delight me to no end! So, I guess for now I am seeing what will be happy with me and the climate. Yesterday, I went to the San Diego Rose show in Barona (first year there and not Del Mar fair grounds) and it just so happens the Indian Res. has one of the largest DA rose gardens in the States! First I heard of it. It is only a couple years old. (I will post about it.) Thanks!

My house faces roughly N/W, in the morning, as the sun comes up over the back of the house, the house itself, and the porch, shades part of the front yard. If you look at my graphed drawing, the area that has Kramer's Supreme camellia, ie about 5-6 feet out from the porch, is shaded until noon, during the summer. At around noon or 1 pm, the sun comes up over the house and the shadow moves back. So roughly, from about 1pm to 6 pm, there is no shade in the front yard. The exception being the area right next to the garage that has Marie Bracey Camellia. Rita Sammons gets sun, but Marie Bracey gets very little due the the garage shade. >> early HTs for your front yard, preferably Vintage Type 1, 2 or 3. Sherry. I have no idea what a Vintage Type 1, 2 or 3 is. :) :) Do you mean the growth habit types Vintage Gardens list ( http://www.vintagegardens.com/classhabits/HT.gif ) ? I'm not sure where to find more information on early HT to see what I like. I have La France cl., that's about all I know. :) If that's true,... then I really like stuff like Mrs. E. G. Hill, Hermann Lindecke, Jean Cote, Reichsprasident von Hindenberg, Reynolds Hole, Surville :) Sherry, do you have any photos of your trained E Veyrat? :) Ingrid : I like Rosette Delizy... but the coloring is a little too red-yellow for me. I'd prefer red-cream or pink-yellow, etc.. if that makes sense. Berndoodle - I'm so new, I don't know how nepeta looks later in the season, so I guess I'll find out! Right now I'm trying one or two each of a few different perennial ground cover plants to see which can tolerate the situation best. and then I'll try repeating them all along the sides of the beds and sidewalks interspersed with other companion plants and short groundcover-like roses. Or at least that's the plan. I'm starting to get the hang of watering the lavender properly and which varieties I like better, but I'll probably wait until next year to get more of any sort of repeating ground cover like this. I want to make sure it does well all year, like you said, and that I like it all year. re: Rita Sammons, that's great! That basically was what my plan was, to keep Rita at about 4-5 feet wide. So that the camellia behind it is taller, and then something short and soft at Rita's feet. I thought it would be cute in the front on the walkway, too. I've always thought of Cecile Brunner and it's babies as something you pop the flowers off and put in your hair for fun. elemire - It's probably a smaller arbor, I haven't bought one yet, but around 4-5 feet wide, I'm guessing. So... are you saying I should remove/move Gloire de Dijon and just have one rose (sombrieul) climb up over the arbor. Will it cover both sides...? (assuming I have something smaller at the feet anyway...) ----------- UPDATED DEEP AND MEANINGFUL THOUGHTS: :) :) I'm inclined not to get a large tea at all. Instead... I'm thinking about doing: ---- Putting Grandmother's hat in the 7-9 foot corner in the backyard with the arbor in front of it. It could get as tall as it liked here and that would be just charming. The arbor has Sombrieul and Gloire de Dijon on it. I may have to move those two back just a tiny bit to give Grandmother's Hat some more space. But if Grandmother's Hat is beautiful most of the year and has a lovely bush shape,... then it seems pretty perfect for me. I already own it and I know I love the smell and bloom look. Not sure whether I should remove the tiny Gloire de Dijon band... it might be too hard to train with Sombrieul on a small/medium-ish arbor. ---- inclined to see if the HOA will let me remove one of the western redbud trees so that I can have less eventual shade in the front. I'm wondering whether I could put it on that strip of land on the other side of the garage (which currently has nothing). But I'd have to add some irrigation there...? ---- finding out what camellias are low and tolerate both sun and shade and considering planting a couple pink ones as the lining of the porch (inbetween the two Madame Alfred Carriere). That would give me a different shape than all the roses and would give me blooming in winter. ---- for along the border of the two properties, considering adding some more agapanthus, or just researching more evergreen low-ish shrubs and see what I like there. Not a hard line, but some soft groups of them along the property line. Not truly evergreen, but I suppose I could try a daylily, too? ------------ for the "A" spot, I'm considering: Curious about what a mature bush looks like, whether it tolerates pruning and whether it holds onto spent blooms poorly. I'm asking AntiqueRoseEmporium about what they think the size would be on the mature bush. I like that it blooms in winter sometimes, too. color change. (YAY!) ~~~~~ Archduke Charles. again, I'm asking AntiqueRoseEmporium about what they think the size would be on the mature bush. I'd love to see more photos of the mature bush and what it looks like post\-flush, etc. I've heard several accounts of it doing well in heat and drought. color change. (YAY!) ~~~~~ Bermuda's Kathleen Really not sure on the size of this one. I'm guessing about the same as Archduke and General. Perpetual blooming, probably. color change. (YAY!) ~~~~~ Ghislaine de Féligonde (or a Noisette or Cornelia or Felicia) If I need to be concerned about shade tolerance, then I was thinking about going with one of these. I liked that Ghislaine de Féligonde has the color changing aspect. It's fragrant and isn't covered in thorns. It can apparently take hard pruning, too, in case it gets out of control. I already have a Felicia that I was trying out. I'm also partial to older\-style Noisettes (like Champney's Pink Cluster and Narrow Water) in pale pink since I'm from Charleston and I like the style anyway. Or I could go with the Lavender Pink Noisette that I already have. \-\-\-\-\-\-\-OTHERS\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\- ~~~~~ Tipsy Imperial Concubine plan to shove her in a very pretty pot. ;) ~~~~~ molieux maybe get a couple so that there can be some balance of yellow. ... I'm hoping if I can work some yellow and white companion plants in, then the yellow won't be too much. Or I could put it in the backyard somewhere where I already have a couple Jude the Obscures and some yellow daisies. ~~~~~ SdlM somewhere in the back. I have a couple spots for a medium rose. :) ~~~~~ Yves Piaget smaller footprint, I have a couple spots I could fit her. ~~~~~ Mme. Berard The idea with this would be to basically let Mme Berard trail over a short decorative fence. Would Mme. Berard work for this? I already have Mme Berard, but I could just leave it in the back climbing the house as it is. ~~~~~ if I get any climbing tea, I'll have it climb up the back of my house where I can appreciate it, but won't have to deal with cleanup. ~~~~~ I still have for placing (already own, but are in the pot ghetto): Lavender Lassie Lavender Pink Noisette Maman Cochet cl Alchemist Eden cl Madame Joseph Bonnaire Eventually I wanted to get a pergola, so some of the climbers, whatever I don't find other places for, could go there. Mme Joseph Bonnaire is probably a normal HT size, so that won't be too hard to find a spot for. I have a couple more small climber positions, too. ~~~~~ and then for mini and front\-of\-bed roses, I was considering: Kosters, Pink Rosette, Sweet Chariot, The Faun, Pomponella, Gruss an Aachen (I already have Compassionate Friend and Duftendes Weisskirchen)

I make cages of chicken wire I purchase at the local home improvement store. On the hill here in Encino, I frequently dig up old chicken wire cages put in the ground twenty to thirty years ago where the plants installed didn't make it for one reason or another. I simply cut a length 31 openings long then roll it into a tube and use the cut wire ends to connect it together. I fold the bottom like you do a burrito, then put the root ball in and fold the tops over. 100% effective in preventing the varmints from destroying the root balls and even keeps the moles from unearthing them too close to the crown of the plants. I thought longevity may have been an issue until I began finding old ones with dead plants in them out farther down the hill and discovered they were the Cal. Natives which were installed in the 70s and 80s. The plants died but the chicken wire cages are still solid.