My compost bins are made out of old pallets. And to me it looks as if the ones in Gardeners World are too. Look at 29.04.

Terri: the best compost bin I had seen was the neighbor's tumbler cylinder compost. It was so much fun to turn the crank to aerate the inside !! She opened the door of the bin to let me sniff: zero odor compared to my compost under a tree which takes 2 years to rot.

The tumbler allows constant aeration (more oxygen) to decompose faster. Plus it retains heat inside the bin, so things decompose even faster. The tumbler system keeps the optimal moisture and retains the high heat needed for proper composting

For my cold zone 5a, the tumbler cylinder compost is the cleanest & most efficient system. I would had bought one, if not for my 26 trees !!

My neighbor's tumbler is taller & larger than the below. Her daughter has a B.S. degree in horticulture, so they know what they are doing. It's very windy in our Chicagoland.

Sam, That video is great! Thanks so much! We are going to go get 2 pitchforks and hardware cloth, zip ties and do a couple of those. I can then make the piles as large as we need. They were using manure as a starter so I still need to get ahold of some of that. I live in horse country but have no truck. Do you think I could rent one for manure or would I wind up paying for the truck due to the smell?

Straw, I love that one, too. Can you find out exactly which kind it is? I had a tumbler that ran about 350 and it was junk. Sold it off. Since then I found out not all tumblers are created equal.

Sam, This is funny. I Googled Rodale's compost bin and it bright up the exact plans I had printed off before my rant. However, the first issue is cost. I would not use chicken wire here. I would use solid sides with gaps like in the video from Gardener's world due to the constant high winds. Also the expense. Cedar and that size? I'm guessing $700 to make you do you think? Finally, it is 3 feet wide. What's with 3 feet? Everyone has 3 foot bins. I DO like the design with modifications. Perhaps I could make it out of pressure treated wood. I did some research last night. I think it was from Oregon University. Anyway the bottom line is you cannot sell produce as organic if you have pressure treated wood not cedar or redwood for raised beds.

Floral_uk - You are right but it is only the 1st bin made from skids. The bin where Monty puts the yard waste first. The rest are actual boards. I should just move to Longmeadow. My gardens are all (my attempt at) English cottage style. You must be in Heaven driving around.

Sam, I don't know how to do that. It took me forever just to get the username right! I am in zone 6 south central PA. But we are in a micro climate here at the foothills. And because this is farm country, it is open with no wind breaks. We have ducks so we have lots of pooped on straw we have been collecting for composting. Also we have 1 1/2 acres with only a small house so the rest of the property is raised beds and large flower gardens. Straw, leaves, twigs, gardening waste we have in spades. When it gets warm I plan to layer with grass clippings for greens. Does that sound about right?

Terri: Yes, grass clippings (green) is much higher in nitrogen than leaves (brown component of compost). More nitrogen = faster composting. Chicken manure is high in nitrogen, NPK 5-3-2 and Khalid uses it in his composting pots. See Khalid's compost in zone 9b, in the below link:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3528532/npk-and-ph-of-organic-matters?n=149

I would go with chicken manure since it doesn't matt-down like grass-clippings, plus higher in nitrogen. The wind blew chunks of grass clippings off my beds & I constantly have to pick them up from my lawn. For my garden I got about 20 bags of grass-clippings and over 100 bags of leaves last fall, and grass clippings are a bigger nuisance: husband & kid complained how that stank up, and it matted down worse than leaves.

Grass-clippings are much slower in decomposing due to matting & drying out. The only time that decompose fast was when I spent hours raking and mixing that into soil when the grass is still FRESH & FLUFFY.

Even chopped leaves, if not spread out for aeration, will gunk up and slow to decompose. Most of the leaves I got are already chopped up by neighbors who run their lawn-mower & bag them for disposal.

Ace Hardware sells a HUGE BAG of chicken manure (under $20), same with Lowe's and HomeDepot.

Below link shows ratings of many cylindrical tumbler-composts, with Lifetime-Tumbler at 80 gallon with the best rating .. that's the one my neighbor has:

http://www.comparing.guru/pages/nsearch?seedid=347&origin=google

Below link shows Amazon customer reviews of the LIfetime-Tumbler, $152 (free shipping). $152 is cheaper than my annual rose purchase !!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030GG2FS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=routerbrand-20

My zone 5a is so cold that it takes 2 years for stuff to de-compose to neutral pH. So I have many composting areas, pics. taken today. The first one is Suncast Raised-bed, made with Resin (thick plastic that don't rot in our heavy rain). 4 panels for $59 on Amazon, that hook up in less than 10 minutes.

https://www.amazon.com/Suncast-Panel-Raised-Garden-Bed/dp/B00EW6Y086/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1485888553&sr=8-2&keywords=resin+raised+garden+bed

In the fall, I dumped grass-clippings & leaves .. after 6 months they are half-decomposed, so I dig holes, and put these AT BOTTOM OF PLANTING HOLE, before planting tomatoes on top. I learned the hard way NOT to plant tomato directly into that topping of half-decomposed & acidic mess, tomatoes came down with verticullum wilt (fungal infection) one year.

All pictures taken today, Jan 31. Note how the grass matt down, and it takes forever to mix them with dirt. Upper left shows alfalfa hay (very slow to de-compose, at least 1 year).

Below is my 3rd area of compost, mostly CHOPPED leaves collected from the neighbors. There's at least 50 bags of leaves in this area. In summer, I dig holes and put leaves at bottom & leave some on top for mulching tomato.

Below is my 4th area of compost, with kitchen scraps. I like to keep it open, to see the squirrels (hilarious to see them eating a large tortilla which cover their faces). My kid likes to watch the deer come by. Also baby opossum likes to eat potato peels, plus a hawk above. It's like a zoo here.

Below is my 5th area of compost, in the front. When it gets too cold, and I'm too lazy to run to the back to dump my kitchen scrap. I sometimes dump scraps in the front, and cover that with leaves. This is where I plant my herbs:

Below shows how CHOPPED leaves (in the middle) HAVE NOT DECOMPOSED to neutral pH, only shrank as of today, Jan 31 (after 3 months). They are NOT safe for planting hole until September. I stuffed such leaves in the planting holes last May and killed a few wimpy own-roots roses with its acidity.

Tomato can tolerate acidity much better than own-root roses, tomatoes are OK with these in planting hole in May.

Note the chopped leaves matted up in round-cakes at the base of the birch tree:

Here's my latest project: a 6th compost area, made of a "low-trench", with plastic siding to retain water, then I fill up with bad-clay (dug at 2.5 feet deep) from the planting holes. Once I finish digging 7 more holes for the incoming May-arrival of roses, I top that area with bad clay, then layer grass clippings chicken manure & kitchen scraps. The acid released from decayed organic matter will soften the hard-clay below.

I like this compost area the most, it's low, so wind can't blow stuff all over like the RAISED SUNCAST BED. Plus I can rake & turn the pile frequently since it's a spread-out area, with no restraining walls. My neighbor, Ph.D. in botany also does a "trench compost", he dug a trench, then put greens at bottom to heat up the stuff above.

Below is 1-year old composted horse manure which I use on Golden Celebration. 2-year-old horse manure is black like dirt, but dense like clay. I prefer 1 year-old since it's still fluffy:

Here's how horse manure looks like when it's 1 to 2-year old compost. Picture below was taken Sept. 22, the base of Betty White Rose:

Straw, I called Ace and they never have chicken manure.

After seeing your plastic bed I had an idea. Do you think I could buy say, 3-4 sets and stack them one on top of the other to create a really large nice raised area for composting? We would need to build a removable door. I would want a tarp cover to speed the decaying and breakdown, too. Actually tarps are not as good as black trash bags for me. I had a huge wire bin of chopped leaves. It sat there for a year. I got frustrated and lay black trash bags all over the top. Wow, did that help. Heated that sucker right up and the stuff was dirt in 3 months.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Greenland-Gardener-42-in-x-42-in-Raised-Garden-Bed-Kit-105981/203139762

Above link is HomeDepot 42 x 42 inch raised-bed with plastic that don't rot, only $25. Folks say you can stack them up to be 2-layers. The above bed is more sturdy than the suncast-resin that I'm having. One can leave one section open, to get compost out easier.

THANK YOU for the fantastic tip of covering with black trash bags. They really absorb heat !!

Here's Coop-poop (chicken manure) sold on Amazon for $15 per 6 lb. Walmart sells Espoma chicken manure cheaper at $5 (on sale in late fall), but stinkier than Coop-Poop (has no odor).

https://www.amazon.com/COOP-POOP-PURPOSE-GARDEN-FOOD/dp/B00IKTITEC

I check with Walmart website, the ORGANIC chicken manure is much more expensive at $13 per 3.75 lb.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Espoma-GM3-3.75-Pound-Garden-Manure/37012471

strawchicago..have you ever considered mowing over some of the piles?..some of the leaves look whole (I realize they could be dropping on the chopped ones)..would speed things up..we mow the paths in the back..they fill up with leaf litter..we use a mulching mower..I don't put grass clippings in my compost bin..our grass is so thin we don't really have any..

I found this wire one with a door for 139 http://www.johnnyseeds.com/tools-supplies/composting/trap-wire-compost-bin-9652.0.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchantAdv&zmam=80483139&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=9652.0&source=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_ExclusiveTools_GOOG&utm_term=shopping&utm_content=sgYhMhYYp_dc|pcrid|171232047530|pkw||pmt||&&gclid=CI6T-PGW7dECFQ6BaQodaGsHKg   It is 41" square which is better than the 36". Since we have one already, I will likely get this one so I can move the compost back and forth until I can afford a 3rd one and so on. I like the square better than the round used by Rodale because of the difficulty in airing the compost. That young girl was struggling, even with help.

Sam - The video was amazing. I never thought to pre-wet the straw for 3 days straight, turning it each day to break the cellulose walls before composting it with other materials. Brilliant!

I liked BBC video very much. I am sure they are also aware of the Elaine Ingham and the Rodale method of compost. I am interested in this thread. I think you will have a great compost. I hope to see your success. I am sure it will be great. Nicholsworth55 is steering you in the right direction. Terri that is cool that you are not far away from the Rodale organic farming trials.

The leaves have to be shredded otherwise they do a good imitation of a tarp and smother the oxygen in the soil and nothing else can grow . That is the purpose of leaves. They are used to smother and keep other plants from growing. The Rodale thermal compost is a good way to take care of both problem to the roses these weed seeds and the anerobic disease causing microbes. I also use the mower to shred the leaves.

I also like how Molly from Iowa states in the Video that all soil parent material has all the nutrients a plant needs to grow. What is needed is the life from the soil food web. That is why I like the compost method in contact with the soil. That's what the compost does well is bring the life to the soil in the soil food web. The soil needs a roof of leaves and sticks like the forest floor. Paul says in the back to eden film the soil is a living and needs a cover like we have skin. Fish have scales animals have fur , Birds have feathers. The soil needs a roof, a protective layer. It can be a living protection like a plant. I use the shredded leaves and compost.

Does anyone know if I can use the green segments of Leeks I read onions are a no go but I am not sure of leeks. What would you say?

Since there is not much greenery around now I called my local grocery store to see if they are throwing away old greens and such. They are holding a box for me tomorrow so that should take care of the greens stuff I need to get started. I'll get a box every few days until I have enough.

nicholsworth55(Indianapolis6a): I leave the whole leaves on the ground on purpose to suppress weeds on my beds .. cheaper than getting 20 yards of mulch for $$$.

The chopped leaves I'll stuff into the BOTTOM of the planting holes for drainage & moisture when I plant my tomato & roses in May.

Last year I did that to my 30 tomato plants and I didn't have to water, mulch, or weed for the entire summer, except watering them for the 1st week when they are tiny babies (pack of 6 for $2 at Menards).

NPK of grass clippings is 4/0.5/2, high nitrogen of 4, and decent potassium of 2. Except it's very acidic so I put that on my "compost-trench" to soften & break-up the rock-hard clay which I dumped there. NPK of coffee ground is 2/0.36/0.6, I got that for free behind Starbucks' dumpster .. NOT impressed when I tested that on my acid-plants.

I have wild onion in my yard and when I dig up a clump I throw it in my bin..we've gotten a whiff of it as we chip..but it must break down because the finished product doesn't smell and I've never noticed any onion bits (they are small)..but you've read not to compost onion?..hmm..I am PICKY about what I put in my bin..no meat, dairy but I've put every fruit and veggie scrap in the world and coffee grounds and filters (unbleached)..and my chipped yard debris and my compost is wonderful..

I use my compost as mulch on everything..I see your reasoning of whole leaves to suppress weeds..I just prefer the way chopped leaves look..I do get some weeds though lol..

Terri: I checked on onions, below link stated, "Like potatoes though, whole onions have a tendency to regrow – they’ll probably sprout new shoots and try to grow new onions before they rot down. If you want to avoid that, chop up the onion into halves or quarters before you put it in the compost bin."

http://www.compostthis.co.uk/onion

true..I've had potatoes sprout..

Thanks Straw. I am only composting the green tops of the leeks I am making for dinner tomorrow. They won't sprout. We use such a small amount of a whole leek, it is nice to turn into something good and use the whole thing.

Nichols, I will avoid potatoes.

Terri: Thank you for this thread which gave me some ideas for my "trench-compost-lasagna" in spring. I'll layer grass clipping on top of my compost-bed, then a layer of "brown-horse-manure", or brown leaves, then a layer of grass-clippings. Will use FRESH grass clippings to scatter thin, otherwise they'll matt.

Acidic grass-clippings do wonder to break-up my alkaline clay, given time. There's a rock-hard bed which I raked FRESH grass-clippings into clay .. 3 months later, it's loamy & black & moist like chocolate cake. My bumper crop of tomato was when I raked in FRESH grass-clippings 2 weeks before planting tomato. Nitrogen release of grass-clippings, as measured by U. of Connecticut, is less than 1 month.

Nitrogen mobility is a 10, it moves with water, but clay retains that well, so I will have to scrape off some of the clay beneath my "compost-trench" to get the full nitrogen.

I'm just going to do lasagna directly around my roses: layer of horse manure (pH 8), layer of grass clippings (pH 3 to 4), etc. Also realize why my neighbor, B.S. in horticulture, chose a compost-tumbler: No nitrogen is loss to the soil below, everything is contained inside the tumbler. Leaching of nitrogen to below is a problem, esp. in loamy soil.

I never bag my grass-clippings .. I get from the neighbors. Below is my zone 5a garden in spring. We always mown the leaves into the lawn.

Below is tomato last summer, with a layer of leaves, then layer of grass clippings above. I never water it, except for the 1st week.

Nicholsworth55

I also use my compost as mulch on everything. I just prefer the way chopped leaves look also. I do get some weeds though too. The weeds come out easily. I have have had good success with the compost on my roses.

Terri

I like the picture you showed of the square compost pile. I think it would make good compost for roses and suppress diseases and weed seeds.

Terri

Here is the soil food web compost video.

https://youtu.be/jErga1eP718

Thermal compost video from Iowa

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3959714/homemade-rose-compost-and-compost-tea?n=225

This is the Homemade rose compost thread in the organic rose forum.

Pretty neat. Thanks!

Chicken manure is expensive, so I'll do lasagna (green & brown) directly around the plant, and sprinkle chicken manure last to help with decay. Any rain will wash the chicken manure's nitrogen for the plant itself, rather than lost in the groud below the compost.

Nitrogen mobility is a 10, potassium is a 3 .. both move with rain-water and lost to the soil below. I'm doing flat-compost and trench-compost, since it's easier to flip them over for aeration, plus mixing the rich soil below into the compost. My concern with fence-in compost is nutrients leach down with rain to the soil below, and harder to stir the pile.

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/homecompost/science.cfm

A C:N ratio ranging between 25:1 and 30:1 is the optimum combination for rapid decomposition. If ratio is more than 30:1 carbon, heat production drops and decomposition slows. You may have noticed that a pile of leaves or wood chips will sit for a year or more without much apparent decay.

TABLE 1. Carbon:Nitrogen Ratios MATERIALC:N RATIO Corn stalks50-100:1

Fruit waste35:1 Grass clippings12-25:1 Hay, green25:1

Leaves, ash, black elder and elm21-28:1 Leaves, pine 60-100:1 Leaves, other30-80:1 Manure, horse and cow20-25:1 Paper170-200:1 Sawdust200-500:1

Seaweed19:1 Straw40-100:2
Vegetable waste12-25:1 Weeds25:1 Wood chips 500-700:1

Many microorganisms, including aerobic bacteria, need oxygen. The easiest way to aerate a pile is to regularly turn it with a pitchfork or shovel

The optimum moisture content for a compost pile should range from 40 to 60 percent. If there is less than 40 percent moisture, bacteria slow down and may become dormant. If there is more than 60 percent, water will force air out of pile pore spaces, suffocating the aerobic bacteria. Anaerobic bacteria will take over, resulting in unpleasant odors. "

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/homecompost/science.cfm

When you and I were on this forum 2 years ago you talked a lot about chickety doo doo. I bought a huge bag and never used it. Are you still happy with that?

I just bough some good fertilizer I can't wait to try. It is fish emulsion + seaweed. Amazon reviews are off the charts for roses, tomatoes, etc.

I went through 3 bags of chickity-doo-doo for the past 2 years. The NPK is 5-3-2, fantastic for my fruit trees and roses. Menards stop selling that, so I have to buy Coop-Poop with lower NPK 2-4-3 and more expensive.

Khalid uses chicken-manure for his compost and it decompose fast.

Since they don't sell Chickity-doo-doo anymore, my tomato last year have tiny fruits !! Fruits were much bigger with NPK 5-3-2 plus sulfate of potash.

Roses need a continuous supply of nitrogen, just like grass .. I cut roses for the vase weekly, so high-nitrogen chicken manure works well in my high-rain climate.

How much Chickety should I put around each rose? Can I also use the fish emulsion and kelp?

For roses grafted on Dr.Huey, I use 1/4 cup per bush each month (right before a rain). Since chicken manure is high in calcium. zinc, copper, and boron .. these are best given AS SMALL FREQUENT DOSES, RATHER THAN A BIG DUMP. If there's no rain, don't use any, since it's high in salt & nitrogen and will burn roots.

I can easily do without horse manure, but I can't garden without chicken manure. Without chicken manure, my fruit trees skip bearing fruit every other year, or else it's 1/4 the amount. Without chicken manure, my tomato fruits are so small, same with roses' bloom. Last fall, I achieved a 5" bloom on Pink Peace and Stephen Big, only after Coop-Poop NPK 2-4-3.

Fish emulsion has NPK of 5-2-2 or 5-1-1, what's your value on the bottle? Fish emulsion is low in salt, but kelp is high in salt. I would use Fish emulsion as MIXED WITH WATER in hot & dry, and chicken manure when there's tons of rain.

I get horse manure mainly to deepen the colors, plus for anti-fungal trace elements in disease-prevention. But I can't live without chicken manure in my garden: its zinc & copper & boron are vital for fragrance & bigger blooms & more blooms. Plus its high in nitrogen speeds up my compost' decay.

Wow! This is a fantastic thread!!! Where to begin? First of all, I hope the shredded compost leaf police don't pay me a visit because I'm also using whole oak leaves to mulch my bed and help suppress weeds! : ) In fact, I just did this yesterday after first applying a DEEP layer of wood compost, covering with paper bags and then the leaves. I'm going to top that with turkey manure and lastly mulch with oak chips. If that doesn't help, I give up!

Nicholasworth55, I've seen your set-up in another post and so admired it. Very beautiful, but natural. I did something similar with the logs of our dead 100yr old elm, but not quite so artistically. p.s. I'm near you in Cincinnati so very interested in what roses do well for you as I'm a newbie.

Straw, I have NEVER seen how extensive your composting is. VERY impressive! Then the picture of your garden.... such perfection. Are those your fruit trees in the background? I can't get over how pretty it all is. I hope you come back after you take a winter break.

Terri, Sam et al have given you great ideas. I laughed at your suggestion of throwing it all together in a heap as that's exactly what I've done for many years inside and outside of the elm logs. However, I recently added something a bit more constructed so I won't have to run up and down so many stairs to haul my compost.

Khalid started another composting post referenced above which shows really lousy pictures of my set-up: [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/homemade-rose-compost-and-compost-tea-dsvw-vd~3959714[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/homemade-rose-compost-and-compost-tea-dsvw-vd~3959714)

This was old fencing (untreated) I got at the re-store dirt cheap. It's about 6' x 12' and I was able to use my brick wall as the back. I used metal fence post supports to hold the panels in and then stapled metal fabric inside to keep the leaves contained. (I strew some sticks on the bottom to help with aeration.) The front panels allows enough open width on either side for my garden cart. The divider is just metal caging. It's slightly lower than the panels so I can easily toss the contents from one side to the other. It's working out great and was super easy to install and cheap for me since I was just storing everything anyway. I would think you could look on Craigslist if you don't have a restore type place. I'll try to take better pics if you're interested.

Wonderful post vaporvac. I like your pile! You have all those lovely mature trees to shade and give you leaves and free chips (bless his heart). I have a lot of flowering trees out front so I do have leaves. The back is my bluebird trail and they hate any sort of disturbance. I added another 4 x 8 veg bed and last year they stopped breeding in that one nest box. So this year, I have to dig the dirt and move it back. With this wind, trees would be a simple solution but alas, I love my bluebirds. I DID however, buy a little shredder chipper thanks to all of you! Yeah!

Khalid blows me away. Between him and Straw... way above my head. Such brilliant minds. I can only hope that what I lack in advanced knowledge I make up for with TLC.

I like that idea about putting the sticks at the bottom of the compost. I want to try that. Also want to try the idea of finding reclaimed building materials to make a compost bin and like the log wall in nicholsworth55 picture.

Terri, You're so lucky to have a bluebird.

Of course I come back to late ... If you still look in the forum thanks for everything straw and good wishes to you!

nicholasville55, I'm wondering if there are any good gardens in Indianapolis? I'm here for an indefinite period (DH in St Vincent's) and am wondering if there are any good gardens to visit. Already went to the Conservatory; wonder when the sunken garden is in full bloom.

I got out nice day and turned my compost to get air and water in the compost bins. (4 feet in diameter) and 3 feet high. I put them in the back of my back yard by the fence.

Terri

That's so cool you got a shredder.

I'm going to spend time tomorrow shredding leaves into the collection bag in the mower. I can't wait. Making compost is so exciting to get ready for the gardening season.

Sam, is that 2"X2" knotted wire that you used to make your bins? I like how natural it looks and blends in with the landscape.

It is 2' plastic green Garden fence. Yes I cleaned up my yard and laugh it almost looks like we know what we're doing. Haha. It will be all used up by the time blooms and I will hide away what's left behind the big Father Hugo's rose.

I put the sticks under the shredded leaves like VV said.

Four new compost bins made with green plastic garden fence 4'x4'.

2and 3 not shredded.

I think the squares spaces are bigger than 2 inches. The temperature is still too cold.

That's a wonderful thread and what a shame that I couldn't go through it as deliberately as I would have like. I guess I need to spend some time on this weekend to study this as well as few other threads that I haven't been able to, due to my work commitments. Thanks for very valuable contribution every one and I sincerely hope that Straw joins us back. Without her, there is so much that is "missing" in this forum. I pray for her good heath and happiness.

Sam: You compost stacks look absolutely great. I think the pics are of last fall so they must be 50% done by now?

best regards

Pile ,bin stack #1 all the way to the left went down 50% over the cold winter. Last week ,Then I redistributed some of it to the other ones to give them a kick start with some live compost. I have some good compost to use in my new sifter with wheels from under the bin compost stack #1.

Now that the weather is starting to warm the other ones should take about a month.The night is still 2 degrees above freezing here.