Hi Mike thanks a lot for your answer.

- The issue has been happening for a couple of weeks now and only once did I get an error code.

- My technician is the same company that installed the system and indeed is factory authorized.

- I will call them and ask but I highly suspect I will have to pay for labor whether it solves the problem or not.

- I have noticed that when the fan would be blocked by snow (back in 2014) no error was given. Also on the error list in the service manual, there is no error code for the fan. Why did the engineers not include a check to see if the fan is running?

- No mention in the service manual of a separate ECM controller nor how to test if that's the problem.

Complicated machines make for complicated diagnosis =/

JB

I know that this is after the fact. However, this is precisely the reason why I always strongly suggest that clients purchase
the 10-year parts & labour warranty – as well as the annual service
contract from the dealer at the time of purchase. I understand that you have
paid a great deal of money for a ‘top of the line’ system and should not need to be ‘hosed’ for further warranty
or service contracts but this is the only way that all the problems, parts and
labour, are and remain on them! No extra charges for return trips or anything else.

It also gives the purchaser tremendous leverage with the
manufacturer that if the problems cannot be resolved, that the manufacturer
must, at their own expense replace the unit.

IMPO

SR

That is simple minded hogwash,consumers should never be hostage to third party warranties or else "pay for labor whether it solves the problem or not." That is just more crystal ball bs. It is not incumbent on decent people to feed stumble bums incapable of earning an honest living same as the general population.

Re: Klem1

I’m not talking about 3rd party warranties. I’m
suggesting a regular maintenance service contract provided by the authorized
installing contractor, in addition to a ‘10-year Parts & Labour Warranty’.

I
have seen cases where high-end systems installed by highly competent installers
still had problems, sometimes
extending over many years. The clients that had extended parts & labour
with annual service contracts have been extremely grateful that they did. Those
that did not have been pissed to no end - remember all those complaints about
noisy Greenspeeds when they first came out?

When you purchase a 10-year extended warranty, parts &
labour, read all the fine print. Then
ask, “What does this not cover?” You might be quite surprised. Ask whether it
covers return trips because the part has to be ‘specially ordered’. Ask whether
it covers refrigerant. Ask whether it covers service calls ‘outside of regular business hours’. Read the fine
print and see if there’s a clause that requires
you to have regular maintenance (not covered by any warranty) to be certain that the owner has done their part in 'Properly maintaining’ the equipment.

Try to get it in writing that there will never be any charges for anything during the 10-year standard
parts and labour warranty – including return trips Christmas & New Years
Eve because something broke that needed replacement and you were low on
refrigerant!

I’m just talking from years
of experience in the HVAC industry and listening to other peoples’ experiences –
most of which I had nothing to do with.

Caveat Emptor!

IMPO – In My Professional and Personal Experience

SR

I’m not talking about 3rd party warranties. I’m suggesting a regular maintenance service contract provided by the authorized installing contractor, in addition to a ‘10-year Parts & Labour Warranty’.

Yeah you are, because an extended labor warranty is offered by a 3rd party company.

These extended warranties used to be much better. Not the case any more, because many of the companies that offered the coverage are no longer in business, swallowed up by competitors.

Hi all and thanks for your answers.

-Called the company and they indeed would charge me every time for diagnosis until the problem has been fixed, since they blame Carrier tech support for suggesting the wrong part.

-I did get the 10 year parts warranty and the two year maintenance contract. No 10 year labor warranty was available.

-Since the problem is so intermittent (sometimes I cannot get it to spin up all day, sometimes it works fine for 2 days), I am very hesitant of calling them out again.

I even made a video of the fault, with all my measurements etc as proof, but what good does it do if I cannot replicate it with the tech there.

It's probably going to fail on the coldest day of the year =(

Thanks

JB

If I look at the spare parts list for this model:

http://online.minnair.com/attachments/files/uploaded%20docs/Parts%20Manual/25VNA0-critical-spare-parts-list.pdf

Is there any other part besides the Fan motor and the Thermistors that might be failing?

Interestingly, on Carrier's part site, if you look up the fan motor:

http://resource.carrierenterprise.com/is/image/Watscocom/article_1411645328202_en_normal?wid=1600&hei=1600&fit=constrain,0&defaultImage=ce_image-coming-soon

In the picture it has a warranty card on there with the option "starts stops intermittently".

Finally if I look at the wiring diagram from the service manual:

http://dms.hvacpartners.com/docs/1009/Public/05/25VNA-1SM.pdf

Figure 4 page 7

The OFM (outdoor fan motor) has a yellow and blue cable going to the control board PWM connections that I have tested and were getting good signal.

The only other cables the motor has, are black/brown going to power (Contactor) and a green ground. I don't see another separate control board for the Fan, maybe it is in the motor? Or part of the main control board?

Thanks

JB

Sounds like your installing company are a bunch of schmucks. If they are so incompetent to have to ask Carrier what the problem is and then blame Carrier when their remote solution doesn't work, its time to get a new company. This in one of the worst excuses for dealer incompetence I have ever heard

Carrier is a bear when it comes to getting warranty parts and if anyone would have an easier time it should be the installing contractor of the equipment. However, does this installing contractor still install Carrier or has their relationship deteriorated?

If you have an intermittent problem, there is a fair amount of guessing in a complex machine like the one you have. With a manufacturer that is a bear when it comes to getting warranty parts, this makes it even worse....

On the flip side, the installing contractor may only be an 'installer' of such equipment... without any technical expertise on staff... they could just be a bunch of maintenance men going around performing AC / Heating checks.

You're in a hard spot to say the least, because I doubt you have much choice than to go back to the installing contractor. No competing contractor is likely to want to stick their neck out on a system they didn't install. Certainly not to provide you warranty service with a manufacturer that is a bear on warranty returns.

My furnaces were installed by a Carrier FAD (Factory Authorized Dealer). I have had no issues so far with getting replacement parts under the warranty.

As this system has an Infinity thermostat that is a
‘Communicating’ thermostat and most likely WiFi enabled, might some useful
information be gleaned from the system when the fault occurs by either the
installing contractor or Carrier logging in and monitoring the system real
time?

Just asking…

SR

Good question. To my amazement, the system does not throw any errors when the fan on the condensor is not spinning. It does not seem to have a check for that. There are no other fault codes than the two faults 56 that have shown up (even though the fan is almost continuously not spinning now). So basically, no further diagnostics to be learned from monitoring the thermostat.

Thanks

“There are no other fault codes than the two faults 56 that
have shown up (even though the fan is almost continuously not spinning now). So basically, no further diagnostics to be
learned from monitoring the thermostat.”

… That you know
of. Perhaps there might be ‘hidden’ menus that they can access but you can’t!

Again, just asking…

SR

My furnaces were installed by a Carrier FAD (Factory Authorized Dealer). I have had no issues so far with getting replacement parts under the warranty.

Of course you didn't. Many of the problems with Carrier warranty parts are self inflicted by the way they are set up. You have Watts Co and then you have Carrier. But just because these problems exist doesn't mean your servicer will tell you.

When you call for service, the company sends a tech. If a part is needed they go get the part. The back end office deals with reimbursement of the warranty part. If you have a FAD that is set up to sell Carrier, the process is more streamlined. But these relationships are only 'greased' by the movement of money, the more the money the easier it becomes... imagine that. But that doesn't spell anything good for a customer who doesn't want to spend more and more money. Does it?

These things go on behind the scenes. I know they do because I am not only the Tech, but I am also the Licensed Contractor and back office all in one. If I have a customer with so and so brand. It's not my job to air dirty laundry, my job is to provide a service to the customer.

If the FAD relationship goes bad between the dealer and the manufacturer, the manufacturer can just jack pricesif they choose to do so. Now what do you suppose that does to you?

If Carrier raises the parts prices while the 10 year parts warranty is in effect then I don't see how it affects me in my situation. I have had one my original thermostats replaced with one that is more expensive than the the original at no cost to me. So it appears it is not going to be a problem.

In addition I paid additional money to cover the labor costs of replacing any defective part. There is a chance that the FAD is not happy with the amount Carrier pays for labor costs. So far that has not been an issue between me and the FAD.

Well it wouldn't be Carrier paying for labor costs. Extended labor warranties are a separate entity from the manufacturer.

There are some charges that extended labor warranties do not pay for, it is really up to your FAD as to if they charge you for this or not. Given that you have an extended labor warranty thru your FAD, I assume that you also have a maintenance contract with your FAD as well.... This maintenance contract is paid at least annually to the FAD.

If this is the case, the FAD is more likely to work with you. It's when you DO NOT have a maintenance contract with your HVAC provider and no extended warranty coverage that you have the potential to run into problems. But given that, if the problem is associated with loss of refrigerant extra charges can come into the picture even with extended labor coverage. Because the manufacturer nor the extended labor warranty provide coverage for refrigerant loss.

In addition to that... repeated failures of the same part with in the contract period I've seen being excluded from coverage on extended labor contracts. Really depends on what the contract says.

Additional charges not covered by extended warranties:

Freight for shipping parts, after hours or weekend service charges.

This is a good discussion but we have hijacked this posting so this will be my last response on the topic.

My extended warranty started from April 2009. I received a letter from Carrier confirming my 10 labor warranty. As far as I know I have an agreement with Carrier with the FAD acting as the agent.

I do not have a maintenance agreement with the FAD. I hire the FAD to due maintenance but it on is on my schedule and not his.

It seems the HVAC industry has changed since I bought my equipment. Buyers really have to understand what warranty support they are getting on any new purchase.

Hi All,

Thanks for the interesting discussion. I escalated my question within my FAD. I quickly got a response that the fan motor of this model is known to malfunction.

They have ordered a new motor and new thermistors just to be sure. I will pay the labor obviously, $300, the parts will be warrantied.

So far so good I would say, I will update if everything is working again.

As a final thought on the discussion, I have found it interesting that I can find any and all information about my computer or car online (failure rates, recalls, fixes, diagnostics), but very little information on HVAC equipment.

Thanks for your help.

JB

I even made a video of the fault, with all my measurements etc as proof,
but what good does it do if I cannot replicate it with the tech there.

Proof is proof, that is all the tech should need to get the part covered. Intermittent problems can be hard to reproduce but that doesnt mean they dont exist. People wouldnt raise a stink if there wasnt something wrong.

To my amazement, the system does not throw any errors when the fan on
the condensor is not spinning. It does not seem to have a check for
that.

Why would it need to, you can see it doesnt spin. So then something is wrong.

HVAC industry is in a constant state of change. What was possible in 2009 is probably not the same today. If anything this discussion highlights the complexity surrounding such issues.

Sure would like to know how the fan replacement turned out.

Fan was replaced under carrier warranty. i did pay for labor. And has not failed since.

Thanks for the update JB. Was the fan motor the only component you've had to replace on your system so far? I ask because I am having a similar issue with a 3-year old Carrier 24VNA0 AC unit wherein the condenser fan motor only runs for 5 seconds when the head pressure peaks. Then at some point during the cycle, the system throws the 56-OAT-OCT THERMISTOR OUT OF RANGE system event. I did the same testing that you did on your system and everything checks out good; even the thermistors. Nevertheless, I replaced the OAT-OCT thermistor assembly but this did not resolve error 56 nor did it resolve the issue with the fan motor turning on and off intermittently. This leads me to believe that the controller board cannot interpret the signals from the thermistors correctly. So, I suspect that either the controller board or the ECM fan motor needs to be replaced. I now have both parts on order and plan to replace the control board first, then if necessary the fan motor. I sure am glad Carrier gives a 10-year parts warranty because these systems apparently have issues...

There was a voltage board recall on the outside unit a few years back then two years ago the blower motor of the evaporator was throwing an error and was replaced along with its control board. almost out of warranty now

Thanks for letting me know. In 2020, I replaced a 38-year old Rheem heat pump and air handler with a Carrier system. The Rheem system was super dependable with very minor repairs but just not efficient enough for my neck of the woods. I sure hope our Carrier systems prove reliable after the warranty runs out. Best regards.

For those interested, it was the fan motor on my Carrier 24VNAO air conditioning unit that caused all the misreadings on the thermistors. Once replaced, the system operated normally.

We've had a couple of variable speed ECM condenser fan motors replaced on our Rheem Prestige 18 Seer AC condenser. Yes, they are EXPENSIVE!