Garrett juice.

I'd put a 1" layer of compost around each rose & lightly cultivate & water in. Then I'd add a 3-4" layer of organic mulch. The compost & mulch should extend about 6" beyond the drip line of the roses bushes.

Civil, you can do wonders for soil by layering on compost, well composted manure and similar organic matter and mulch, every year ideally. One can use organic rose fertilizer and alfalfa pellets too. All this will gradually improve the soil without disrupting the already planted roses. Keep all this away from the canes of the rose in the center and put it on the root zone and drip line and outward. Rose replant is something that some people report a problem with a new planting where roses have previously grown, but this is may not be scientifically validated to exist here in the States.

Hi civil servant. Just an idea here... since your right side had roses growing there previously and your left side is a new bed... do you think that the roses on the right side just might need some nitrogen? Or maybe just an all around fertilizer?

Maybe the soil there is depleted a little since there were roses there in the past.

You could start with something really simple, maybe just a product that your trusted local nursery recommends. Or just some time released pellets like Osmocote. You could just a half dose on the right side only and see what happens.

What Wirosarian and Sheila are recommending above could also work wonders... but I'm trying to recommend something really easy that you could just start with. :)

For those suggesting compost, can manure work instead just as well? I already put coffee grounds and eggshells too. This is weird how the roses are growing since I did pretty much everything identically as the other bed. Last year I used MiracleGrow and the roses on the left side grew WAY faster than the roses on the right side. It's like something is making everything on the right side lag behind in terms of growing and blooming.

For an all around fertilizer, should I also just mix it in whenever? Or should I use it regularly in a scheduled sort of way?

By the way, is top soil necessary or can I just pile and mix manure right in?

Mixing manure right in could burn your roses' roots because the nitrogen content is so high. If you're going to use manure, it should be well composted first like Sheila recommended. She's a wizard gardener. :) Definitely follow her advice!

You mean like well-rotted manure?

This is the one I use http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/circle-h-farms-manure-15-kg-0592253p.html#srp

Mulching.

Spread over soil, away from stems. Do not dig in.

Hi Civil Servant. The link you gave says the product is composted manure so that should be great. :) You may already know all of this.... but here is a quick read about using composted manure on roses.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/composted-manure-good-roses-67204.html

I hope they start blooming beautifully!

Thanks Cori! Just a question, would improving the soil by adding composted manure, nitrogen, phosphorous, etc. be considered fertilizing? If so, shouldn't there be some sort of feeding schedule or something?

Does it really matter when I add the composted manure (plus all the other stuff I mentioned) or can I just add it in whenever I feel like the soil can be enriched?

Embothrium, I'm a bit surprised mulching is all it takes.

Ohhhh.... I'm not a pro at all. Just a ranch girl. I'll try my best to break this down with my limited knowledge....

Yes. Adding anything that has nitrogen, phosphorus, etc is fertilizing.

The link you provided looks like it has 0.5-0.5-0.5. Those are the ratio amounts of N-P-K. (Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium).

I'm a big fan of not throwing the kitchen sink and just doing little things at a time so you can really tell what's working and not working.

If you haven't added this composted manure to the roses on the right before and you really want to try it since you already use it, I would say go for it. But I personally would just add that and see what happens before you try anything else.

That's just me though. I like to methodically try one thing at a time and evaluate.

If you really want to add additional fertilizer, I would do so sparingly. Maybe half of what's recommended.

One step at a time is how I like to operate. But that's just me.

You also want to take it easy with the Miracle Gro or any chemical fertilizer. It could let salts build up in the soil. What type of soil do you have, clay or more sandy type soil. Also, what is the sun situation on the two spots, does one get more shade? Are there tree or shrub roots in the bed that is not performing well? Is the watering the same for both? It could be the soil, but it could be something else.

That's really smart :)

For both sides, I have only used the composted manure to improve the soil before planting. After that I used only chemical rose fertilizers like MiracleGro and followed the instructions on the label. Do you have a routine for fertilizing your roses?

I'm not exactly sure if my soil is really more clay or sandy. I haven't really seen any clay though. Both get the same amount of sun since they are planted only a few feet of each other with no trees in the way or anything. I water them the same, "deep" watering once a week.

Well, to answer your question... I recently had my soil analyzed and found out I have extremely rich soil. Very high amounts of potassium, calcium, magnesium, zinc, copper and iron. I'm lucky. I also didn't expect that!

The only things my soil needs for roses (or azaleas and many other flowers) is nitrogen and phosphorus. After I found that out, I applied what the analysis recommended (16-20-0). I probably will only need to provide nitrogen and phosphorus once a year for quite a few years since my soil is so rich in everything else.

A soil analysis is helpful, but don't get so caught up in all that if you're just trying to enjoy your 4 rose bushes. I only did it because I have a lot of azaleas that weren't blooming and I wanted to know why.... and I'm also science minded, a little crazy, and recently did a big yard remodel.

I would say don't get too caught up in a feeding schedule unless that's what is in your personality and you enjoy it. Just start with one thing at a time on that right side to see if you can get it to be as vigorous as the left side. It could be all sorts of reasons, but if the left side is a new bed it makes sense to me that the right side might be a little depleted and need just a little more nitrogen since it supported plants in the past. Once they're growing together, then maybe you can start thinking about how to fertilize them further.

Do you have local master gardeners accessible in Canada? We do here in the states. They are associated with universities and can answer all sorts of local questions about the best times to fertilize in your area, when to prune, etc.

Look! You do have a master gardener program in Canada! http://www.mgoi.ca/groups.html

When you are ready to try fertilizing your roses further... I would call or email the master gardeners local to you to talk about it. They will know your conditions best. I contact mine all the time about all sorts of things. They are really helpful. And free! If they don't know something they usually take the time to look it up, ask several experts, then get back to me. The people I have talked to are always nice as well. Volunteers usually are. :)

Thanks for the tips Cori! I do think the fact that I planted roses earlier in those spots might have something to do with it.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=572

Here's my recipe for you, Civil Servant,

WELL COMPOSTED MANURE for each rose every spring. How much per rose? About the volume of 1/3 cubic foot (12" X 12" X 4"), per rose, lightly scratched into the existing soil around each rose, 3" out from the rose's crown, in a 6" wide band. It MUST be well composted manure, available just about everywhere. Nothing makes roses thrive like manure...it's worked for thousands of years on all kinds of plants.

2-3" DEEP LAYER OF MULCH above the manure. Stay away from hardwood mulch which decomposes too quickly. Pine bark and cypress mulch are v. good and available everywhere.

REGULAR FERTILIZATION PROGRAM, whether organic or not, you decide. Follow the directions on the container. Miracle Grow Slow Release Pellets are easy to apply and very satisfactory. Two applications a year, one in April, and then again in July, couldn't be easier.

GOOD MANAGEMENT means: adequate watering, pruning, dead heading, full sun, spaced properly, good air circulation, and attention to insect damage and diseases.

In no time both rose groups should match each other in growth.

Very helpful Moses, much appreciated! Do you have a link for the slow release pellets you are referring to?

With respect to what you said about regular fertilization program, what organic fertilizers do you recommend? And how often should I apply because with stuff like composted manure, there doesn't seem to be any directions on the label!

Question - do both sides get EXACTLY the same amount of sunlight every day? That can make a big difference.

Yes, mulching can improve the soil, and it helps the micro plants and animals the soil needs, instead of killing them. The mulch (I don't mean rocks or large pieces of bark, which are technically also mulch, but some sort of compost) breaks down, and within a few months you won't see it anymore - it has become part of the soil. Repeat.

Jackie

Yes, EXACTLY. My roses are planted against a fence facing the east.

I also vouch for mulch. You may want to give the right side a little nitrogen boost or manure boost like you were thinking, but mulch is a good long term plan for improving soil. For all the reasons mentioned above. Plus it just makes gardening easier (no more weeds) and it looks nice.

Organic rose fertilizer is safer and applying Spring, then summer, to be working by Fall, avoids fertilizer burn which can happen with stronger fertilizers, Civil. Just follow the directions. Rose Tone is good, as are Dr. Earth and Plant Tone would also be fine and cheaper. The "rose fertilizers" cost more without being better. I get it on amazon prime with free delivery! Non organic are cheaper but be very careful not to burn by watering ahead of fertilizing and don't overdo. Once you get all this going, new compost or mulch yearly can be enough for many roses. Some amazing fertilizing programs can get very elaborate and do wonders, I'm sure, but aren't required for most of us.

Thanks Shelia. How do you even know when you've got fertilizer burn?

The leaf edges crisp, Civil, and dry out. The whole plant can die in a severe case. Google "rose leaf fertilizer burn" and there is info and images that can help you. Also, the 3 in 1 products for roses are best avoided. That refers to fertilizers and fungicide and insecticide in one product. Less is more.

I'm going to try Rose Tone but it is expensive as I can only get it through the US from Amazon. How long does it last you?

I bought big bags, but used a cup or two around each rose twice per year, if that helps. If you are in Canada you probably have similar rose fertilizers at your garden centers. If shipping won't be free, I would buy yours locally. At least compare prices.

I'm not disagreeing with anything above, but there is a much simpler method for improving soil. The downside is that it takes a couple years to really be noticed. The upside is that it's rather low-tech.

Get some organic dry fertilizer like Espoma Garden Tone or something with similar N-P-K numbers, either Bovung Dehydrated Manure or Black Kow Composted Manure or something comparable, and some type of organic mulch like shredded hardwood. In late Winter or early Spring when you do your pruning, scratch in the fertilizer at the surface, cover with about a half-inch to an inch of the manure, and cover that with 2-3" or more of mulch. If you battle weeds around your roses, cover the manure with newspaper 3-4 sheets thick before covering with the mulch. This would also be helpful if you're using fresh barnyard manure, which may have weed seeds inside -- the newspaper lasts long enough to smother the weeds, but breaks down in a month or so.

This should be enough food to get through at least the first flush of the season. You can put down some more organic fertilizer after the first flush -- pull back the mulch a little and scratch it in around the roses, then cover it up again. During the growing season, you can add your household used coffee grounds -- just spread around the top of the mulch, and water it in lightly. This will attract earthworms, which will help aerate the soil and pull down the additions you put on the soil surface. Water as needed. Deadhead as needed.

That's it. The following year at pruning time, leave the old mulch in place, lightly scratch in fresh organic fertilizer, top with a fresh layer of manure, and cover that with a fresh layer of mulch. Don't do any tilling or digging.

The old mulch will break down and add organic matter to the soil. The manure and fertilizer will help that along. The used coffee grounds add a little extra organic matter repeatedly over the growing season, and encourage earthworms to help with the mixing. Adding a fresh layer of mulch in Spring will keep things looking neat, and also smother any old disease spores that may be lingering there through Winter.

:-)

~Christopher

Sorry for such a newbie question but what does it mean to "scratch in?"

That means light digging in just superficially (like a chicken does). Christopher is right, just layering on the fertilizer and manure and mulch will do it with the help of rain and worms. No real digging needed.

This granular fertilizer is popular in that it is sold in all the stores where I live. But what do you guys think?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/cil-rose-6-12-6-fertilizer-1-7-kg-0592221p.html

I also might try the MiracleGro Shake and Feed as Moses suggested.

http://en-ca.miraclegro.com/smg/goprod/shake-n-feed-all-purpose-plant-food/prod11850037?&;

Hi Civil Servant. We are all in such different areas with different conditions and different soils... you're probabaly going to get lots of different great advice here, but it may or may not be best for you. I would really send a quick email or a call to your local master gardeners just to check what they say about fertilizer. The granular one you linked to is probabaly fine. But it may or may not be what gardeners in your local area, familiar with your soil and your climate, recommend.

Also... the roses on the left are doing great right? Just the ones on the right need to catch up a little?

You might be lucky and have rich soil like me... and not even need a lot of fertilizer. I never fertilized before and my soil is great! It just depleted in nitrogen and phosphorus over time, probabaly from the plants blooming. That's all I need to add back in. Anything more than that would actually be like polluting into my soil and with runoff... not good.

When it comes to specifics I would reach out to master gardeners local to you.

Cori Ann is giving good advice, Civil. The granular fertilizer might be fine. The soil building approach some of us discussed might be fine too. Your local Rose people could be great with details of your area that they would know beyond general advice. Good luck!

Yes, "just mulching" can make a world of difference. If the mulch you use has a lot of nitrogen in it, it's kept damp and the weather is hot, that will break down quickly, releasing Humic Acid which will help break up the soil. Fungi, bacteria and worms will also begin working it over rather quickly. In my climate, horse manure, the fresher the better, lots of water and heat turned hard pan adobe into "potting soil" in a summer. Of course, you have to modify what's used to your conditions, what's available and your preferences, but yes, mulching can help correct many issues. Think of Nature. She drops all that wonderful stuff right on the soil surface where it remains damp, oxygenated and worked over by the critters and bugs. Forest soil tends to be pretty neat stuff.

Thanks for all the time guys! Moses, thanks for your detailed advice. I just have one last question for you though. My friends just gave me some fish emulsion and blood meal to try out. Moses how can I incorporate that into the instructions you gave me?

I apply homemade yardwaste compost around and under rose bushes...I also throw on alittle Shredded leaves when I have those on hand to shed and throw into rose-beds... Like roseseek(9) said:

"Think of Nature. She drops all that wonderful stuff right on the soil surface where it remains damp, oxygenated and worked over by the critters and bugs. Forest soil tends to be pretty neat stuff."

Do you have issues with "wild life" or dogs? Fish emulsion, blood and bone meal are food to them. Spread that stuff around and you will attract every raccoon, opossum, skunk, coyote, dog, etc. for miles. If you don't have any problems with any of that kind of activity, go for them. Otherwise, be prepared! I can't use any of that with my dogs. They LOVE it, just as the coyotes, skunks, raccoons, etc. did in the previous gardens.

Fish emulsion would be diluted with water to feed. If you have a lot, you can use it in a hose-end sprayer for the garden. If you have just a little, save it for potted plants. Blood meal is best left for the lawn -- it's basically just nitrogen and a little iron, as far as plant nutrients go. Or, if you have a vegetable garden, use some of it for feeding the leafy greens.

I want to echo Moses in that I'm not against inorganic fertilizers myself. They feed the plants just as well as the organic fertilizers. However, if you think your soil needs improvement, the organic fertilizers would help in that regard because they need to be "eaten" by something before they release their nutrients to plants. Those same things which "eat" the organic fertilizer will also be "eating" the manure and mulch and used coffee grounds, turning it all into stuff that makes the soil better. Making your soil better requires organisms which eat organic matter -- so feed them, and they'll feed the roses.

We also both had the same summary of how to get things going in Spring -- concentrated slow-release food scratched into the soil, topped with a thin layer of manure, topped with a thick layer of mulch. And we're both saying to give another dose of concentrated slow-release food after the first flush. And that's basically it for feeding. Some people give low doses of fast-release fertilizer multiple times through the entire growing season, but I don't bother with that.

Oh, and if you have access to a leaf shredder, use it in Autumn and throw a few inches of shredded leaves over the mulch. If you really want to go cheap, you can make really great soil by repeating alternating layers of shredded leaves and used coffee grounds, with a top layer of mulch. The soil critters will do the rest for you.

:-)

~Christopher

I'm not against inorganic fertilizers either. But I have told that I should feed the soil so to speak and I think organic fertilizers might do a better job.

In theory I agree that organic fertilizers are better, but I DO have bad "critter" issues.I tried using home-made fish emulsion a couple of years ago; it proved a curse. It attracted badgers to my garden,and they are at least as destructive as boars and wild pigs,only much, much more stubborn and skillful at trespassing. So from now on I'm afraid I'll have to use inorganic fertilizer. Of course I'll continue to use manure, cracked corn,alfalfa,and organic matter collected from the woods, etc, but no more fish- blood- bone type stuff. I couldn't even use the organic granular fertilizer that I found ,since it contained "farina di carne" ("meat flour") ...

Civil Servant,

You have struck gold with all the excellent advice given by so many well informed Roses Forum Rosarians. My comments basically reinforce what they are sharing with you.

Fish emulsion stinks, literally. It has its good uses in some cases. It is mostly nitrogen, which you are already applying in a sufficient amount if you opt for the Miracle Grow Pellets or another well balanced rose fertilizer, organic or non. Too much nitrogen is not good: weak, over abundant, lush, and disease/insect prone growth at the expense of flower production, is the outcome. Ditto for blood meal.

Be mindful of those animal product fertilizers in light of their critter attracting nature. Even if you live in the city, alley cats can be drawn to your garden, and they will not leave your garden without voiding. Then there are urban wildlife, particularly raccoons and opossums, even skunks, coyotes and coywolves. You don't want to attract them.

I do like seaweed fertilizer as an occasional foliar feed because of the multitude of minerals it contains, but it is not really critical to use it. Its use is more like dessert in comparison to a well balanced main meal. Also, there are no odor issues.

Great advice everyone. I have booked marked this for the spring..You must all grow some very nice roses fertilizing correctly..I didn't even occur to me to fertilize since I never have in all the years of growing roses..All I ever did was place fresh mulch down on last years mulch..

Chris, do you have a thread some where here of some of your rose bushes in bloom? How long have you been growing them?

Most of mine are "oldies", so if you're used to neat-and-tidy Hybrid Teas and Floribundas, this will be very different. And I post more over on the Antique Roses Forum.

I started putting this garden together in 2013, and it's still approaching what I envisioned. Below are threads with lots of pics and explanations, earliest at the top and most recent at the bottom.

It's been a busy Summer in my yard...

Mulch!!!

Things are greening up!

2014 Rose Season begins...

'Baltimore Belle' to replace 'Jaune Desprez'

Spring 2015 garden shots

Cut from the garden today

Spring 2016 in New Brunswick, NJ

:-)

~Christopher

I guess I will probably be cutting blood meal out but I'll try the fish emulsion. I heard it's also a good foliar feed.

Banana peels for fun

Speaking of banana peels, I heard they are good for distracting aphids. Anyone tried that?

The Constant Gardener (Zone 5),

I tried banana peels here and it did nothing to help against aphids... Easier for me to just to hose them off the bush.

But like everything in life some things work for some but not others so I encourage trying things and finding out for yourself in your area.

Organic rose forum has people dedicated to this subject. I suggest a handful of 100 percent alfalfa pellets ( hay pellets from the feed store or tractor supply ) sprinkle it on the top and don't over do it. Or you can make the tea and water it in at the drip line.

Civilservant, one thing comes to mind which might explain the difference between your roses. If you live in a subdivision, the builders might have buried any manner of debris before smoothing the top & making your lot. Or, if the property had been waste land before development, people could have used it as a dump or tip. I have found all manner of things while creating garden beds in subdivisions: lunch trash, plastic containers, drywall bits, entire paint cans, automotive oil bottles.

I was thinking along the same line as Holly W and Chris both. One of the areas had good life in the soil therefore it has a good network of beneficial mycorrhizae bacteria and other nutrients available.

In a bucket stirring or in the watering can you could make a tea from a handful of the soil from the good area with the organic fertilizer and Alfalfa and pour the water on the other poor area.