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Help with layout for 3 cooks

7 years ago

Hi everyone,

I have been carefully reading and studying other layout discussions, and have learned a lot. I have about 8 different possible designs that I've come up with for this kitchen reno, but I don't know if I'm missing something brilliant, or even which is the best of what I've come up with!

We are renovating a 2500 sq ft rancher that my husband and I and my mother will be sharing. We are on 2 acres and will be developing a hobby farm. We are all big cooks, and my mom is a big baker, and we mostly handwash all our dishes. We need a layout that will allow all 3 of us to be doing different things in the kitchen at the same time without bumping into each other all the time! :-) We also need good prep space for preserving and otherwise processing the garden bounty.

The kitchen is RIGHT off the front door. Although I don't mind walking right into a kitchen, mom and DH like the idea of a peninsula or other way to create a sense of distinction from the home entrance. We walk from the front door/foyer into a very large room (22 ft long by 26'7" deep), which will be divided into kitchen, dining, and living rooms (open concept). The kitchen has the exterior wall, but the windows are all being reorganized, so their position/size are flexible.

There is a large pantry (6x8) which will have a bank of counters and a prep sink along the 8 ft wall, for the espresso machine, mixer, flour mill, etc and bulk food storage. Chest freezer and more storage in the garage.

Here is what the home designer has come up with:

Here's a close-up of the kitchen:

I knew I didn't quite like it, and reading all of the wisdom here has shown me why:

  • there isn't enough aisle space (by a lot!)
  • the sink and stove are too tight
  • there isn't really enough space for either the oven or the dishwasher to open properly, let alone to not block traffic badly
  • the island is only 6ft long at the moment (and that is with narrow aisles!), which disappears quickly by the time you put even a 30" sink in it

I'm not sure what we would use the peninsula counter for, as all the functional tasks are being carried out in the other corner. And it's stupid to have all that area and have (potentially) all of us working in the same corner where all the appliances are.

Challenges:

If we lose the peninsula, we can get a nice, long (8-10ft?) island in. However, then the sight line from the front entrance is straight into the kitchen. If we keep the peninsula, we may have to widen the whole kitchen into the nook (on the other side of the peninsula) to get the aisle space we need. Then the question is, what function do we use the nook for?

A last note that we are not wide people (;-) ) and we think we could get by with 42" aisles, with 48" between the island and the window wall. But the 36-38" aisles indicated here are definitely too small!


Thank you all so much for your help; I look forward to your ideas!




Comments (33)

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The gurus here will help, but to validate your concern - IMO this is a one person kitchen as currently designed. We had a similar layout in our now redesigned kitchen. It was fine for one, bad for 2, next to impossible for 3 or more.

  • 7 years ago

    Thank you, nightowl. I think you're right; compact and efficient is great for one. But we eat at different times and make different foods, so one person is cleaning up while the others are prepping and cooking, and mom often has something in the oven right when we are starting to prep dinner. Definitely a challenge!

    At a minimum, we are thinking that the range should be down by the peninsula corner (where the black dashes are in the layout above), which at least has it opening into the aisle and gets it out of the way of the sink. Windows could then take up the rest of the wall to the left (from the perspective above), which would be lovely. In this layout, I had also contemplated then moving the main sink to the remaining long counter under the windows, and then having a small prep sink in the island. But I wondered if it was ridiculous to have 3 sinks in such close proximity? (including the one in the pantry)

    I forgot to add above that we are--for now--presuming a 30" slide-in range, a 30" sink, and a 36" counter-depth fridge. None of these are purchased yet, but that's what the budget suggests atm. :)

    We all spend a lot of time in the kitchen, so definitely want to get this right!


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  • PRO
    7 years ago

    I would absolutely want a solid wall between the entry way and the kitchen. A kitchen on the front of the house can be very nice, but it should not be open to the entry hall.

    It's not easy making a kitchen which can hold 3 people doing various prep work, when the floor plan is "open concept". It will usually on work if the sink is in the island, and behind it is a U-shaped kitchen with the side walls being two separate prep areas. The back wall can be for the refrigerator and food cabinets. In other words, there will be four areas of countertop, three of which will have cabinets above.

  • 7 years ago

    Anglophilia, if we built a wall where the peninsula is (say 8'6 instead of the current 9'6 of the peninsula), to create that full U-shaped kitchen with the small island (I can see why this could work for the kitchen), what would you do in the 5x8 ft "hallway" now created off the entry? I'm a little concerned about this space feeling like a bowling alley even just with the peninsula. :-)

  • 7 years ago

    Sorry to say this, but unless you are going to put momma in the pantry by herself I think that's the feature that needs to be adjusted to give you space for her in the main kitchen. If you make the pantry part of the kitchen space you can put in a baking area with a mixer stand and the ovens. The house looks like it has been remodeled a few times before and you have a large living/family room area with no natural light so you need as much as you can get coming in from the kitchen. I'd put a wall to the left of the window by the entry way so that it does not open up into the kitchen then plan on a wall of counter height windows all the way to Bathroom #2 (with a break for a range/hood).

  • 7 years ago

    That's what I was thinking too Stan regarding the pantry! I'm not sure what I would do with a sink in a pantry either. I guess you have coffe there but I think it would be a hassle to go there every morning for coffee when preparing breakfast in the main kitchen. It would be much more useful in the kitchen as a prep sink for your 3 cooks. I'd use the pantry space for kitchen, get the cleanup sink on the perimeter (assuming you don't immediately towel dry and put away all of your dishes) and prep sink on the island.

  • 7 years ago

    This is food for thought, Stan Z and lharpie. At one point Mom proposed using the pantry footprint as part of the kitchen, and it was dismissed as unnecessary, but maybe it needs to be revisited.

    In our current (tiny!) kitchen, we have a large pantry with a countertop and a pocket door that gives direct access to the kitchen. The coffee machine and mixer are in there, and it's our favorite feature, as it allows us to close the door on the noisy things. We do keep a lot of bulk food in storage, so having a large pantry is important to us. However, the question of would we really go into the pantry (and therefore use the prep sink) from the hall while making breakfast in the kitchen is a good one.

    In some layouts we've considered, we've put a pocket door along the pantry wall, which makes way more sense. However it only leaves a 32-36" space on the other side for cabinets.

    I hear what you're saying about the baking centre. Mom would love this! 2 potential issues: I'm not sure we can afford the separate wall oven/cooktop option, and (I should have mentioned earlier) Mom is only living with us for 4-5 months of the year, and the rest of the time, we don't bake much...


    You're bang on about natural light, Stan. We are putting in two skylights over the living room, and hoping to have no uppers on the window wall in the kitchen.

    Appreciate the thoughts! Any thoughts on how to use the "nook" space by the foyer created by either the peninsula or a potential wall?

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    lazy_gardens, you are quite right. We will have a secondary "processing" station in an outbuilding for processing chickens, gutting fish, and bulk canning tomatoes, etc. But I'm still looking for enough prep space to do small batches of jam and pickles, process a couple of cabbages into sauerkraut, etc. But I do that in my tiny kitchen now, so you're right, what we can likely get out of this space is a practical family kitchen.

    It makes sense to me to have a large island with a prep sink as this kind of flexible prep space; we may move the coffee machine out of the pantry (or create the pocket door).

    Any other thoughts about appliance layout, island vs peninsula, or what to do with the nook created by the peninsula or a wall?

    I should add that the garage entrance at the back of the house will be the primary daily entrance and there will be a decent mudroom back there, but some kind of landing zone or command centre might work by the front door?

  • 7 years ago

    I'd consider a wall b/w the entry and the kitchen as suggested before and then go with a longer island.

    I'm thinking something like this.

  • 7 years ago

    Thanks for that, sena. There is a wall at the entry as you've drawn it now (although the doorway is closer to the front door) and we've been planning to take it out. I did sketch out something similar this afternoon, but I'm just not sure that walking *right* into the kitchen won't feel odd?

    Maintaining about a 6 ft "nook"/transitional space by the entry, I've tried a similar layout with the fridge at the end closest to the door, perhaps with a large bookshelf on the entry-side of it to break the sight line a little, and then the long wall you suggest with the range and possibly the sink. Without the cabinets or fridge against the pantry wall we can have our pocket door and the longer island (8-9') and a prep sink. I like the flow this creates quite a bit. It's a layout that's in contention for me, anyway!

    Making dinner with DH tonight (he was washing dishes and I was cooking), I was coveting that prep sink! Is it overkill in such a small space? :-)

    If we leave 5-6' of "nook" before the kitchen "galley" wall, we'll have 15' or so of lower cabinets, then the island. We could have a shallow dish hutch/storage cabinet on the section of wall where you have the fridge (about 36" wide). I wasn't sure if this would give us enough storage, though?

  • 7 years ago

    I was coveting that prep sink! Is it overkill in such a small space?

    I think the number of cooks and the shape of the room necessitate a second sink.


    I have another idea if a smaller "nook" by the entry work for you.




  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    If you gave up the pantry, you could have several prep stations, with a long worktable height counter, with lots of drawers below, and plenty of space to move around. The peninsula could be moved in, with a high counter for seating, which would also hide the dirty dish mess. I included a narrow, shallow cabinet, tucked into the corner by the entry, for extra canned goods.

    I drew the island only as wide as standard depth base cabinets (plus overhangs and back panel), but you could add a pony wall and ledge to contain splashes, and add the prep sink there, rather than between the windows on the perimeter. The fridge is full-depth, with the counters on the short wall puled out to match the depth of the box.

  • 7 years ago

    Thank you, both!

    Sena, I really like what you've done with the nook. Seeing the shelves, etc helps me to see that this could be a useful "corner" rather than a "nook" per se, especially if the peninsula is a little shorter than the almost 9 ft that the architect rendered. I'm not sure what dimensions you used, but I'm experimenting now with 8ft, which I think could work well.

    We had considered putting the sink in the peninsula--logically it is a bank of workspace--but no one wanted to do dishes while looking toward the dead space of the front door. :-)

    Mama Goose, I really appreciate you chiming in. I don't know if we're ready to let go of the pantry yet, but it helps to see what doing so would allow for. Definitely food for thought.

    Ok, I've been busily sketching away, testing out possibilities. Anglo's idea of putting in a wall I thought had potential, but we would end up with an island about 4'3", or a generous U, so I don't think that will make the cut.

    Here is a version that I've been considering if we could let go of the peninsula all together:

    I really like the flow here: fridge (with landing on the island when I come in with groceries), to large prep by the stove OR at the island, to sink/washing station on the right side. I think a large bookshelf to hide the fridge interrupts the sight line, and the 8' island tucks a little more into the kitchen to allow a little more transition from the entry. I put a pantry pull-out shelf beside the fridge for small food items, and we have the uppers for dishes over the sink. The sacrifice is slightly smaller windows: two 36" ones on either side of the range.

    Two options if we keep the peninsula:

    The peninsula creates a smaller nook (5'), but with the shorter bar (8') I think this could still be a decorative corner as sena drew it. The island is also smaller by necessity, but with only a prep sink in it, there's lots of useful space, I think?

    Option 2 with the peninsula reverses the sink and range, and forgoes the pocket door (which could be done in any of these, if we needed more cabinets). DH and I have realized that a prep sink in the main kitchen and moving the coffee machine out of the pantry probably makes more sense than the sink in the pantry.

    Both of these peninsula versions allow for 8' banks of windows, which would be lovely...

    Appreciate your thoughts!




  • 7 years ago

    Look like you can get 2 of the 3: pantry, long island, wider entry. So a tough decision.

    Sena01's plans that open the pantry into the kitchen rather than the hallway really make that space feel more integrated. Anyone working in the pantry would be able to see, hear, and be a part of everything else happening in the kitchen rather than being completely isolated.

  • 7 years ago

    Do you have to keep the kitchen where it is? I'd rather have people walking into my living room, so can you switch the two?

  • 7 years ago

    Stan Z, yes, I think you're correct about the trade-offs. I'm waiting to hear from my mom about what she thinks of these options, but I'm glad there are no alarm bells for you in these plans, just lifestyle decisions. Personally, I like the no peninsula option best, both for the clean-up station and for the flow. But I love the large windows when we keep the peninsula, so pros and cons.

    Gennifer B, I have wondered about that too, especially moving the kitchen in to where the living area is being created in the original drawings above. It would make for a lovely big living room and then the kitchen facing the dining room. It is a much smaller space, though (12 x 9.5 or so), and the kitchen as planned is where the current kitchen is, so there would be an added expense for a smaller kitchen. Probably not worth it in this case.

    I did speak to the designer at one point about a plan that moved the kitchen to a dramatically different location in the house, and he estimated it could add $50K over keeping it more or less where it is now, so we decided we could live with it! :-)



  • 7 years ago

    Well folks, we had a meeting to go over a few layouts, which led to a discussion of what appliances we want in the kitchen. I had been assuming the small end of standard appliances, but we are now going in a new direction!

    It's a little crazy, but we're going to do a 30" induction cooktop AND a 15" 2 burner gas cooktop beside it, with a 48" range hood over both. Then we'll do a standard wall oven (30") stacked with a microwave. We're still assuming a 36" counter depth fridge, but we're nervous that this won't give us enough fridge space--the TINY crispers with the deli-tray set-up is not set up for our garden produce! We are open to keeping a second fridge in the garage, but DH and I have been wondering if there's a way to recess a standard fridge into the pantry.

    Anyway, here's the layout we're working with so far, to accommodate the bigger stove and wall oven/microwave. The only real issue I see is that it's likely not ideal to have the sink butting up in the corner, and there's only 24" inches between the stove and sink. But we could go to a 30 or 33" sink to get a few more inches of space.

    I've put a lower-cab pantry pull-out beside the fridge to keep a few food items handy for cooking (tea, oil, oats, etc). The rest of the food will be in the walk-in pantry (I didn't draw the door, but it's off the hallway).

    Any thoughts?


  • 7 years ago

    Your "only" things aren't small. 24" of prep space is one of the things I'm thrilled to be changing. And the sink in the corner like that isn't brilliant either. I would also be concerned about the counter depth fridge. We've recently sold ours in favor of a full size fridge that we are recessing into the dining room.

    If having the noise closed off is the main reason you're reluctant to give up the pantry room (and I understand, because my mixer sounds like a jet airplane and runs for 20 minutes straight when I'm making icing) how about a mega appliance pantry like this:

    You can use the mixer in place and just close the door when the noise is too much.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    24" between the clean-up sink and the cooktops is not such a big deal because you have the prep sink on the island. I'd plan to prep to the left of the prep sink, so that you just need to turn around and drop prepped items on the cooktop, and to the right of the clean-up sink. I'd suggest putting a trash pull-out on the end of the island, facing the clean-up sink, to be shared by all the zones (unless you already plan an under-sink trash pull-out for the prep sink.) I would definitely increase the prep sink to at least 18".

    Maybe make the clean-up sink a 30" single, to put a few inches between it and the corner. I have a 33" single apron front, and it is huge. That 6" could be used for cutting boards or sheets pans. You'll need a few inches of filler on the perpendicular side, to make sure that the 24" drawers open past the sink cabinet handles, but that's OK, because it will give you a few more inches to turn from the sink to the DW on that run.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Oh dear, I hate to be negative, but please don't commit to this plan yet. I lived with a kitchen very much like your latest plan. 24" between stove and sink, sink in the corner, island across the way, etc.. It was not good. I strongly disliked washing up in the corner. Had I been bad? I felt jammed into the corner with the counter at my right hip all the time.

    Do you have the current floor plan of the entire rancher? I just went back up to look at the overall layout. Are the only views from the main living space to the outside from the kitchen? It looks like the living room is all interior walls. Is this true? Is this what you want? 2500 square feet is a decent sized home. You should be able to get a lot of nice, comfortable, workable rooms out of that, but I don't think it's there yet.

    Can someone say if the building a home forum would help with an overall layout? I haven't gone there much, but it looks like the OP might benefit from thinking through the house as a whole and I'm wondering which forum would be the best fit.

  • 7 years ago

    Hmmm. I appreciate all of your thoughts! I'm pondering, but I think I've hit that point where I'm just tired of going in circles! We were at the house yesterday and taped out this layout in the kitchen space.

    Mama Goose, I think you're right that we could go to a 30" single bowl sink and gain those 6" back from the corner. We also don't think the DW will work in this location; the 2' gap isn't big enough to stand at the sink and turn around to load it/empty it. It could go in the island, but I'm wondering about using that 24" space between the stove and sink. Is that crazy? It's a good location for the dishwasher in terms of the sink and dishes, and makes the bank of cabinets beside the oven perfect for dishes.

    I can't decide whether the small space between the sink and stove is an issue. Part of it is that we have those extra 2 burners that we won't generally be cooking on. So when I walked through DH and I making pasta (where we might have 3 burners in use), I turned off my induction burners (so didn't need to move my pots off the hobs), or moved them to the burners not in use. Then I walked my hot pot over to the sink, brought it bac to the stove to mix with sauce, and then grabbed a plate from the side wall and when food was on the plates, turned around to where DH would be at the island to serve. It seemed to work?

    In our current, TINY kitchen, we have 9" between our stove and the corner of the counter/cabinet, and then the 2" depth of the cabinet is full of utensils, toaster, bread, etc beside the fridge. I almost never use that side of the counter; in fact, DH is often standing there getting dishes down, etc. But I appreciate that experience of yours, too, laughablemoments and townlakecakes. I think we'll take a little break from thinking about it and then once a couple of walls come down, we can revisit.

    We're aware that we have 3 other options for the kitchen layout. 1) move the clean-up station to the island (which we'd rather not do because of it being so open); 2) move into the pantry (I was reading a thread here where someone created a jog with the fridge recessed into the pantry and had an open pantry nook, which I am considering. We want the pantry partly for the noisy items, partly for a lot of bulk food storage, partly for ugly things like fermenting sauerkraut, kombucha, etc); 3) extend the kitchen run straight to the foyer by carrying cabinetry right to the wall on the left. DH quite liked the idea of putting the fridge and a couple of pantry pull-outs as a large cabinet area in what's currently the "nook". I'm not so sure; I think having the big stainless fridge right by the front door is weird, plus it screws up any kind of triangle. But there are trade-offs in every plan.

    So far, with the dishwasher moved and the smaller sink, this looks ok? Maybe? :-)

    Laughablemoments, we're happy with the overall layout. It's a reno so we have to work around some quirks, and we're trying to create 2 full suites (bedroom, office, bathroom) plus a guest room and bath, so quite a few rooms. We looked at more major shifts like moving the kitchen elsewhere in the house, but it added a large amount to the budget. We will add skylights to the living room/dining room, and there are french doors between them that lead back to another section of the house, including straight through to the family room with patio doors. The house is an odd square, so it does limit things a little. Thanks for thinking outside the box, though!


  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm pondering, but I think I've hit that point where I'm just tired of going in circles!

    Planning a workable space can be exhausting and exasperating, but having a space that hums with efficiency is worth the effort. Giving up now means that you could be living with less than optimal for a long time to come (and paying big money for it, as well.) Take a few days break and clear your head, but don't give up too soon.

    I can't decide whether the small space between the sink and stove is an issue.

    It's an issue, trust me. Putting the DW there won't help things, either. In addition to the area between a sink and stove being an ideal prep space, it's also where the dirty dishes from the stove usually land on their way to the sink. If you only have 24", the workspace and the "set zone" won't share nicely. You are talking about canning, baking from fresh ground grains, making kombucha, etc. Almost all of these tasks use extra large cooking pots and utensils. That means that they take up more room on the stove, more room by the sink, more room in the sink, and more room to store when they aren't being used. You don't need a football sized field kitchen, but it will help to plan for where these things will park each step along the way.

    As a side note, think of where the garden and kitchen will be in relation to each other.. Try to get your garden as close to the kitchen as possible (or vise versa.)

    Plan for where bushel baskets of produce can land when they come in from the garden. When we make applesauce, we go to a local orchard and buy 4-5 large laundry baskets of apples at a time. If it's nice out, I leave them on the porch, or they end up cluttering up our entryway, or plopped in our aisles around the island. Our kitchen turns into a full-scale applesauce factory for a few days. Thank the Lord for a Victorio. : )

    The rest of the year, we need lots of canned good storage, but even more frustrating is finding a spot for the freshly cleaned glass jars as we use up our canned goods. Running them down to the basement every time they come clean is not ideal, and mine pile up on shelves, in cupboards, on the pantry shelves.

    You are right, things like grain grinders are noisy. They are also dusty. We run ours in our pantry because of the noise, and everything in there gets covered with a layer of flour. :-( If you know of a dustless mill, please speak up.

    We're aware that we have 3 other options for the kitchen layout. 1) move the clean-up station to the island (which we'd rather not do because of it being so open) Cleaning up at an island is nice because you get to interact easily with the household, but not so nice because the dirty things pile up on that wide open prep space.

    2) move into the pantry (I was reading a thread here where someone created a jog with the fridge recessed into the pantry and had an open pantry nook, which I am considering. This is an idea that is worth playing around with some more. If I was you, I'd connect the pantry right to the kitchen so that I didn't have to go around the corner every time I wanted to get something into or out of the pantry. Take a look at My Dream Kitchen by chinese grandma for some great ideas. I think she's done another kitchen since the one that I just linked, so it's worth poking around her website and checking her other ideas out, too.

    Here's a rough sketch of some thoughts. If mom does tons of baking from fresh ground grains and pantry supplies, perhaps switching the cleanup zone and the baking zone would make sense instead of how I drew things. The island is long enough that you could do shelves, either open or closed, on both sides of the sitting space. I also included shallow shelves, 1-2 jars deep in the L of the pantry behind the fridge. With such shallow shelves, nothing gets lost easily.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I think the DW would work better to the left of the sink, too. My DW is between my sink and range, and I've adapted. But since you have the prep space on the island, your layout will work much better, and clean-up will still be separate. A helper can load or unload the DW while you prep or cook, and can also prep on the counter to the right of the sink.

  • 7 years ago

    Mama goose, thanks so much for drawing that out; I think we could be good with that adjustment, if we really want to keep that nook at the entrance. I'm aware, too, that if we gave up the wall oven and just put the oven under the range, we also could have a little more elbow room. That might be a compromise option as well.

    I had originally been attached to that nook as a window seat, and now I've sold Mom on it as in sena's drawing earlier, as a place to sit with cookbooks under the window. :-) She thinks it also might make a nice bump-out one day, too, although I think it might be too small.

    However! In considering laughablemoments' points, and in searching for something not quite so cramped, I have experimented with using the nook as part of the kitchen. For one thing, we are adjusting the configuration of the foyer a little. Because of what's happening on the other side of the foyer, we are moving our hall closet to behind the front door (not ideal, I know, but really just for guests and storage, so it will be ok), which allows us to use the whole 5'5" wall in front of you when you walk in the door as a cubby/bench/hooks set-up. I love this, and think it will mean people will walk in and look straight ahead, rather than move directly into the kitchen from the front door.

    So here's my best shot eliminating the nook. Sorry it's a little blurry; I can do a darker drawing if need be.

    So, the big question is, is it weird and awkward to walk from the foyer into the kitchen with the fridge behind you?

    Laughablemoments, we can't get the interior oriented to the side of the house where the garden will be. Believe me, I tried. :-( We will have a sizeable mudroom at the back of the house, out of the garage. This will be the main work entrance out to the barn, workshop, etc. The workshop will also have a "clean room" for butchering chickens, brewing, etc, and probably in the height of the summer, this is where bulk canning will take place. The garage will have an extra fridge, the chest freezer, and storage for the empty canning jars (right now these occupy a spot on my kitchen floor, so I totally take your point!!). I will likely come in from the garden through the front door to the kitchen with produce for dinner or smaller batch preserving, and that's why I wanted the large island with the prep sink.

    Thanks for the link, too--a fantastic kitchen! I'm just aware that we only have a shallow L, rather than the U or deeper L that would make this so much easier!!

    As much as I would love it, I don't think I can make an entrance from the kitchen into the pantry. Sigh. At just over 8', we just don't have the depth to cut a 3' door, have the 2' of counters on the back wall, and then do anything useful with the little under 3 ft of wall space remaining. Plus, we're really trying to maximize windows and minimize upper cabinets, so cutting out a door takes away precious uppers for dish storage.

    I've added 2 full-height pantry pull-outs above, though, which keeps a practical amount of food handy, and there's room to put the mixer in the main kitchen, too, if Mom prefers. The bulk and ugly stuff can go around the corner to the pantry.

    The plan above is definitely a more generous, awesome kitchen (in fact, I like it a lot!). The question is, does it work aesthetically? Thanks for continuing to give feedback; it's so easy to lose perspective going around in circles!

  • 7 years ago

    Just to add that, practically, I know the prep sink should go closer to the fridge, to create a better triangle. But I don't really want the prep sink as the first thing you see when coming in the front door, so I've moved it to the other side...trade-offs...

  • 7 years ago

    Also, we're going to put in an under-counter bar fridge to help get a few things out of the main CD fridge. At the moment, the plan is to put this in the pantry, but looking at this plan, I think it could easily and conveniently go in the island where I have the food containers/plastic wraps, etc. These could then go between the fridge and stove, which is where leftovers will be put away anyway.

  • 7 years ago

    Backyard - your plan is very similar to my renovation. The differences are we have a walkway to a back hall between the frig and cooktop and our cleanup sink is around the corner from the cooktop - where your pantry area is. If I had that nice long run I would want my clean up sink where you have yours. As for the sink in the island, I would advise you keep as much space for landing, prepping, baking between the frig and the island sink as possible. We have a 10 foot island and a stages 45. It is amazing. I am jealous of your gas and induction and wall oven plan. I didn't have a space for a wall oven so went with a range. Please think a lot about putting a wall oven below your cook top area. I had that and it was horrible - way too low for me. Try one out somewhere before making a decision you can't change.

  • 7 years ago

    We live in an older home with a detached garage, so if anyone knows us well, they pull to the back of the driveway and come in the back door. It would be about the same as entering your front door--our fridge is on the left, kitchen is open to view. No one seems to mind, and it's an incentive to keep the kitchen tidy. ;)

  • 7 years ago

    Thanks for those votes of confidence, nightowl and mama goose. I am liking this plan a lot. I think if Mom decides the nook is important to her, we will do the smaller sink, move the DW, and also consider a 30" induction RANGE beside the 15" gas cooktop. That might work better than moving a wall oven underneath the cooktops (thanks for that, nightowl). Will report back!

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Your latest plan looks like a much more functional kitchen than where this started! If a 36" opening eats up too much space between the kitchen and pantry, how about 24" or 30" opening instead, with a pocket door so you don't have to contend with any door swing? It's not the end of the world to go around the corner from the kitchen to the pantry, but it will be less convenient.

    I don't see an issue with the fridge in this new location. It actually seems less visible from the front door than when it was on the pantry wall. I like the mail and key area, and that you can do a framed opening to distinguish the entry from the kitchen. The entry looks like it's really coming together.

    That's too bad the kitchen and garden can't be closer to each other, but houses, land and sunlight don't always cooperate the way we'd like, do they?

    Even with the kitchen figured out and committed to this location, I still strongly encourage you to work on the overall layout with a design forum. There are some folks on kitchens that are good with this, so you could ask for help here (new thread?), or there are other forums on GW you could utilize, too. I bring this up because I see some "clunkiness" as the dining and living space does this awkward stair step funneling of space toward the double doors in the back. There is room for a lot of improvement there. I don't think it will require major changes, just careful planning.

    Make sure you give thought to where your furniture pieces will go. After working hard on the farm all day, you are going to want a pleasant dining and living room where you can relax and enjoy the fruit of your labors. Do scale drawings with couches, dining table, chairs, and all the other big furniture pieces. Will you have a tv, and where will it go? How about a hutch or buffet, bookshelves, are ther any special heirlooms that need a spot? Figure out the walk paths through those spaces, too. Thinking through these things now can save you from frustration and heartache later. It's no fun to do things twice because details weren't considered beforehand. (Been there, done that.)

  • 7 years ago

    I like your latest sketch (posted on Saturday) with the changes to the clean up sink that get it out of the corner and the large window. Walking into the kitchen from the entry may be a little unorthodox but it will be a nice kitchen to look at and you will still have a clear walkway/view into the living/dining area so people won't be confused where to go. Go for it. The skylights in the living/dining area will also help draw people's view to that area. Likewise if you made the 12 foot wall between the living room and guest bedroom into a feature with stone, brick, or dare I say it -- shiplap. Not sure what your plans are for cabinets but budget permitting if the fridge had custom doors on it that matched the cabinets it would blend in and be less noticeable.

  • 7 years ago

    Thanks for those affirmations, everyone, and I appreciate the help in coming up with this plan. Mom was fully in favour of making the kitchen as large as possible, so I think we're good to go. Laughablemoments, I will consider putting up the whole house plan...I'm a little scared, though! We have worked so hard on it and are in the demo process. That said, DH is doing the framing, so if he signs off on changes, it may not be too big a deal to make them. Studying the half of the plans I posted, I can already see one small possible improvement, so perhaps it's worth a few pairs of eyes having a look at the details!

    Beyond the french doors is the second suite (Mom will be at the front in the rooms you see to the right of the kitchen; DH and I will be in a suite at the back of the house), so the separation works well. The previous owners did an awkward addition beyond those doors of one giant sunroom (27 x 33!) that we are carving up into a bedroom/bathroom/den suite for us, but we also needed to preserve the back wall as an option for patio doors to the garden. The right side of that large room is also the access to the garage and the downstairs, so basically we've preserved what's in front of the french doors as a shared family room with woodstove and patio access, and then run our suite down the left side of the room. It's hard to imagine there are better options, even though this is a little quirky! :-)


    I will definitely do as you suggest with furniture, etc. That will be the next step. We have already thought through where the heirlooms will go, but there will also be new furniture to buy, and of course all the decorating and finishing details. I'm sure I will be back with those next steps for at least the kitchen!

    Stan Z, I really wondered about disguising the fridge in that way! It looks like a built-in fridge is way out of our budget, but I noticed that KA has a "panel-ready" fridge and wondered about that option. But it looks a little goofy in photos where the doors and handles stick out so much? And it looked like it was being discontinued, so I wasn't sure if there were other options. I'll try to find one locally that I can look at to decide.

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