Normally it is easy to beat the price of parade of homes house that was decked out, has super finishes and even inground pool like in your example. But the floorplan you requested has (a) metal roof, (b) lots of roofing (c) multi-structures (d) inefficient (e) wrap around porch d) absolutely despicable W shaped roof. So builder is protecting himself. Also compare kitchens.. much more $$$ in your plan that with builder special spec. In fact for parade of homes I expected much higher level of finishes.

I would not build a house with upside down W roof for myself.

The OP wrote, "...The custom builder I talked to said something like this would cost between $180 and $225 a square foot not including the lot..." What that means is that the builder wet his finger and stuck it up in the breeze. An "estimate" like this is as good as what you paid for it.

I wonder if the builder's houses in your area going for $150--$160/SF are comparable. I would think not.

That said, the house has a lot of interesting, albeit rather unusual features, which means a lot of interior volume and a lot of exterior extras, such as the large front porch which is an oddity since you and all your guests will have to drive around back, park in the drive and enter the house from the rear! Unwary guests may drive up and stop at the "front" of the house, climb the porch and try to enter your bedroom...

It's rather an odd house, but an appealing one!

Am I looking at this correctly? When one enters the house, one must walk through the DR to get to the LR? And the guest bathroom is off the mud room? And what is a "clutter room"? You can do better, regardless of price!

That is a weird plan.

The dining room is basically a hallway/walkway between the foyer and mudroom entry ...

Composite roof. Eliminate the double peak. Shrink the porch areas.

If you don't need a whole wing in a stock plan, maybe get a different plan?

Boy, tough crowd. I'm ok with the plan... I do have a backup which is more traditional. But I'm worried the interior will be dark.

http://www.allisonramseyarchitect.com/plan-details.cfm?planNumber=C0590

I think the M-shape roof is just for about 8 feet and then the peak is normal over the rest. builder did look at it skeptically. Could be taken out if I can think of a different decorative feature on the gables.

I was going to finish the guest suite later... I'm handy. probably good to have one. My land is expensive so putting a tiny house makes it impossible to get a normal mortgage.

"The dining room is basically a hallway/walkway between the foyer and mudroom entry ..."

99% of the time you enter through the mudroom anyway so it's rarely a hallway? keeps the foyer presentable for guests (a problem with my current house) I also think they put it under the 'bridge' to divide the space and so you could have a nice chandelier and a cozy feel. I had a hard time finding a big plan WITHOUT a formal living/dining. I have no need for two dining tables or two living rooms.

"And the guest bathroom is off the mud room? "

When you live on a farm with horses and mud and difficult to remove boots... being able to walk in a couple feet to the bathroom is a major perk. also good for when workers need to use the restroom.

And what is a "clutter room"?

OMG... top of my wish-list is a 'Mom-Cave', this is where you dump the papers, cut the flowers, oil the saddles, sewing/tools, device charging, ironing, etc. basically a souped up laundry room. I'm a little militant about no paperwork in the kitchen though.

here's an example

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/192247477817035273/

I do agree the front door of the house being 'in the back' is less than optimal but our driveway comes up behind the house and the porch would look out over the fields.... I would probably expand the driveway to a big circle with obvious parking spots to make the door more prominent. Could shrink or eliminate that porch for sure.... maybe an awning?

The Allison Ramsey plan won't be dark.

I think the M-shape roof is just for about 8 feet and then the peak is normal over the rest

Good luck if you get snow or rain.

99% of the time you enter through the mudroom anyway so it's rarely a hallway?

How do you get from the mudroom to the living room? Through the dining room.

What if a guest is in the living room or kitchen and needs to go to the bathroom? They need to go through the dining room.

What if you're in the clutter room and need to get to your bedroom? You need to go through the dining room.

What that says is that the dining room isn't really a dining room but a hallway with a table in it.

I had a hard time finding a big plan WITHOUT a formal living/dining. I have no need for two dining tables or two living rooms.

Then maybe what you need to do is take your inspirations, wants and needs to an architect or person of design talent who can design you a smaller space that lives large and works on your lot.

Where are you in NC? I'm just outside of Charlotte and that price p/s is a rip off!!!! If you can't be an O/B, talk to several GC's!! If you're near here, I can recommend some GC's.

If you really like the house, why would you not be willing to have an architect reduce the size and cost? An architect's fee might be a small fraction of the money you save and you would be getting the house you really want.

Why is this house expensive? As others have said, the roof is just insane; don't underestimate the cost of such a roof -- both today for building and tomorrow for maintenance. Also, it's easy to focus on just the interior spaces, but those outside spaces won't come cheaply.

My mom and I used to have a small business together, and I remember her saying, "There are two ways of saying no to a project. One is to out-and-out say no. The other is to price it in such a way that the customer decides he doesn't want our services."

Also, I see that the May River house contains a great number of highly customized items; for example, the staircase wall is curved and the handrail appears to be wrought iron, probably custom made by a blacksmith. Anything personalized for you is big bucks. On the other hand, the Dogwood Bloom house to which you're comparing it contains high-end finishes, but they're 100% typical stuff -- very nice, but not custom made.

I'm with the others: While it's lovely, that's a weird house. The flow from room to room is just odd. Rather than build more than you actually need/want, I think you'd be better off to go to an architect and say, "This is a plan I admire. Let's use it as a starting point /an inspiration, but let's make it functional and live-able." Then you'll get what you want.

I was going to finish the guest suite later... I'm handy. probably
good to have one. My land is expensive so putting a tiny house makes it
impossible to get a normal mortgage.

If you're getting a mortgage, this probably won't be a choice. The bank isn't going to lend on a house that's only partially finished.

And what is a "clutter room"?

I don't care for the name "clutter room" -- my husband would take that too literally -- but the concept is good. Craft room, hobby storage, office, whatever; I think most of us are planning in space for such things. I think it's the name that throws people.

I do agree the front door of the house being 'in the back' is less
than optimal but our driveway comes up behind the house and the porch
would look out over the fields....

Yes, this is one more thing that adds up to weird circulation in this house. The odd parking area is part of it too.

My suggestion: Study this plan and the pictures that go with it, and extrapolate the details that attract you to this house ... then search for those details in another house or have someone draw it for you. For example, you really want a clutter-room; you might find it "mislabeled" as a bedroom in another house. And note that this house is super-casual; you can find that in another house with better circulation. This specific house contains so many oddities and dysfunctions that I feel sure it would be lovely but uncomfortable.

Robin0919 - I am planning a build in Charlotte and would love if you could share that GC info :-)

I'd be surprised if you could get it at that cost with that metal roof and structure. Builders are busy. Subs are increasing their pricing. It's really not simple.... and why ANYONE would agree to a roofline like that - with the torrential rain that we can get in NC is beyond me. Directing water toward the CENTER of your house is a DISASTER waiting to happen.

That FORM lowers the peak height, but kills the entire FUNCTION of a roof.... not smart.

Keep in mind those exterior porches/big garages can really up your sq footage price, as they are not included in the heated sq foot, but the money needs to come from somewhere! We wanted nice porches on our house, and although the price per sq foot seems high for "the house," it has porches and garage space that most other homes here do not.

Spec out everything you can, and then a find builder that will quote you the cost to actually build it, not base on a $ per sqft.

Once you find out the cost for framing, roofing, etc you will know what is driving up the cost.

I think the price seems reasonable given the home.

I like the Allison Ramsey interior house plan. It's a basic box. That's not a bad thing. It would lend itself to easy porch modification without a lot of trouble. Porches cost a lot of money. Pretty, but expensive. A smaller array of modified porches would allow for customization of style, too.

Are those steps between "mudroom" and the rest of the house? Needless changes in level add to the cost and decrease the livability.

If you NEED to have a toilet and sink accessible for muddy-booted employees and family , just make one that opens to the outside.

That funky roofline is a leak waiting for the first rainfall.

we built an allisonramsey plan with 12 ft porches on the north and south (and southwest) we live south of houston, our house is not dark at all, but we do have lots of windows and the house is oriented with main rooms to the south i really like your second plan

All great suggestions... it sounds like the extra cost is due to the 9ft interior height, the extra expanse of roof, the large covered patios, and the extra corners? on the front. I was planning on eliminating all the expensive features like the curved stair rail, the shiplap walls, the wainscott in the greatroom since those are things I can do myself in the shop with time to shop around. I enjoy interior trim work.

I really want a house with the low-country style expanse of roof... I would suspect that will add 10K in galvalume but it should be offset by not having to do siding on the 2nd story?

Design-wise do you think eliminating the funny roof line, making it all one level, and squaring off the front will make it boring?

I was really trying to just find a plan I can live with because things can go wrong with trying to modify something. I can easily see 20K being spent just to shrink it 200sq. ft. and maybe not as optimal. The allison ramsey plans are ok but don't have that awesome 2-story living room with the windows.

We have beautiful views and I wanted something that took advantage of the privacy and space. actually hard to find something with the garage on the front side so that it does not block the view.

Can anyone tell me what they think it would cost to reduce this plan or if they had luck with that?

the road comes in from the blue markers about 500 ft. through the woods and then the pasture opens. The original homestead was in that section of trees. I was looking for something similar to the style of the old farmhouse that was kind of quasi-victorian/dogtrot style.

Another contributor to cost is the "that awesome 2-story living room with the windows" and the "bridge"/balcony connector.

9 foot ceilings are not that expensive. Typical cost about $1000 on 2000 sqft. Drywall and lumber are pretty cheap all things considered. That roof looks like $80k to my untrained eye. The roof on the "comparable" house is probably $10k.

That enormous porch is not considered sq feet. So that extra roof and floor etc - which is presumably stone - which cost $40k in total is a complete add on. So that alone is $10 a sqft (when you use that absurd metric). Ditto the car port bridge thing.

In NC - everyone has garages. You are going to challenge resale a bit if you decide you don't like it down here

You also have to address the 2-story living room and bridge, the apparently cosmetic level changes, and the long skinny tail with the garages.

It is not hard to create simple yet very efficient farmhouse floor plan.

Farmhouse

Ignore the price, it is probably has more to do with the land.

Steep roofs are more expensive in nearly every situation.

The amount of siding saved is not much.

When was your last metal roof built?

Reflecting heat is not worth much money. Keeping ducts out of the attic is worth money. Metal roofs are not done very often here and the cost reflects that.

I have to think that it is much cheaper to build that parade house that you compare to. With a more typical attic with no dormers.

An open living room is of course 500 or so wasted sq footage. So you are building a shell for 4200 sqft but only getting 3700. That is 15% extra right there or another $20 a sqft.

You don't see many 2 story living rooms built anymore in this area. For many reasons but cost is one of them. Hard to decorate, hard to have good temp distribution between floors, and huge sound issues from 1st to 2nd floor. I've had a few of them and it wasn't an option when I went to build for these reasons. They impress at first but it doesn't last long.

You don't see many 2 story living rooms built anymore in this area. For many reasons but cost is one of them. Hard to decorate, hard to have good temp distribution between floors, and huge sound issues from 1st to 2nd floor.

I so agree with you there! When we started our build process the builder assumed we'd want a 2 story living room. I looked at him in horror and said absolutely not for all the reasons you just stated David. Then he assumed I'd want the ceilings to be at least 12'. I brought it down to 10' on the first floor which is a height I've had before and liked. Second floor is 9'.

That is a very nice piece of land. Why dont you hire an architect to build what you want? You can show him the plan and what parts you like about it. It would be a shame to try to take some premade stock plan and force it onto that beautiful piece of property.

How can you send a PM to someone on here?

The person you want to PM has to turn messaging on in their settings first. kalenangel needs to turn this feature on.

and jshorey needs to turn on messaging as well

Metal material may only a be little premium, however installation could add $$$$.

In our area dimensional shingles go for 80/square. Standing seam obtainable by exact panel size from manufacture for $90/square. Let's say 35 sq roof. Material cost $2800 dimensional shingles, and $3150 metal [good price]. We have two prema donna companies that install standing seams metal. They charge over $1057 per square - total rippoff vs
$43 for shingles. When I worked for a builder all we can do is inform a consumer.... If they still want it they have to pay it. At that idiotic price you can change shingle roof multiple times far past your death and still be ahead.

I have updated my messaging settings - thanks

I remember this house being reviewed on here because I specifically remembered one of our architects referring to the placement of the tub as "unfortunate". Sure enough here it is.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2326007/southern-living-2014-idea-house

It's expensive because it's an "idea house" that includes every bell and whistle you can imagine. Infrastructure costs, two story windows, glass landing/bridge features (expensive since it must follow safety code- very thick glass) , bathtubs that cost $3K, expensive tile etc. etc.

If you like the basic floor plan, then consider sitting with your GC to get "real" on the specs. This includes his billing process- is it fixed price or cost plus? You could be in line for a very large mark-up on it all if it is the latter. Consider: All materials are marked-up by the distributors/vendors. If your contractor is then, also, putting 20% on top of that? In some cases, you will truly be paying an outrageous markup on things like lumber, labor, and all that beautiful interior stuff. And goodness-are you clear on all the materials he's planned for? Are they in line with your choices?

Find out how this was spec'd- first. Then decide your "must haves" vs "can do something different". And by all means, get more than one bid. This is your house, your budget. Better to tell somebody your budget, and see what they spec, than to let them spec and then try to figure out all the overage.

Well, I think everyone's feedback is making me rethink choosing this plan. David Cary I do recall that the last house I lived in with a 2-story living room was hard to regulate temperature and noise. And the light bulbs were always out :-) The tall ceilings and room divisions will make it feel better.

rockybird... I am all for architects and I'm sure one will be involved.... I am an engineer which means I could design a million dollar toaster if someone gave me too many options. The thing would have geo-thermal heated floors, r-value of 100, every kitchen cabinet accessory on the planet and a moat. I figured if I can't find a plan that is close out of the thousands available then the chance of an architect designing one for me is low. Plus, anything non-standard is expensive and harder to get contractors to agree to build (or they will screw it up).

I think I will get the Old Oyster plan modified to bring the roof down a bit further to mimic the look. Add a 'mini-shed' dormer (not sure what the term is for what is going on in this picture) to both upstairs baths and see if the roof can be brought down lower. Put a drive-way breezeway off to the side entering into the laundry room on one side.

902juanita I asked the builder I met with about sourcing my own materials. They did not seem pleased with that suggestion. I am assuming they make some of their profit on their contractor rebate from the building supplier? I like to source the expensive things myself, I bring in tile direct from the importer in florida in big crates, call the lumber mill for flooring, go to the window factory, order the tubs from china.

How do I find a builder that will let me do that? My spouse made me promise not to play GC again. Are there flexible builders in the durham NC area?

I get that reaction. What you might be looking for is a GC who can "get" with your building goals: Beautiful result, on a realistic budget.

Let me be clearer: You don't really want to "bypass" builder's suppliers, but you ARE looking for the vendors that can build to your budget. That means:

--- You're looking for a GC who will give you line-by-line itemization. ALL of it, to really lay out the cost. 190-300 line items, depending on the complexity. Don't shoot yourself- a bid like this is, truly, a "blue print" for you.

My last custom build was a hybrid- fixed costs on 2/3rds of the bid (infrastructure) plus the 1/3 that was classified as "allowances". I was very specific with certain wants, so he knew to find a supplier for the best price on the cooktop I wanted, the tile I thought I'd need, the plumbing fixtures and on and on. SO awesome, since, at every stage? I was free to choose something more expensive, if warranted, but also saw my path to the budget I was asking for,

It was TOTALLY important for me to have the majority of my budget at fixed cost, since I was building in a hot, hot, hot market where labor costs could go up in an instant- I mean that. A bid for labor that jumps 35% in 2 weeks? Screw you- we find other avenues. And by "we" I mean my contractor. Yep. He did, and it was great.

There were places that I increased my own budget. For example- stucco. I had a choice, and I ended up choosing the most expensive option- an integral color, never paint the thing stucco. The upgrade cost on that (and my true Gavalume roof) was really small, and allows me the low-maintenance costs I want.

All the allowances? Our contractor set me up with ALL his suppliers, who could help me affect beauty/function in my budget. The exception was lighting, where he told me "go- find it cheaper online. It will be fine". Fine? OMG- I saved 60% on my lighting- whole house- shopping on line from reputable sources, in comparison to what the local showrooms wanted for the exact same product.

Major appliances though? Contractor was VERY negative on that. He told me story after story about clients ordering online appliances on the cheap, only to realize that they'd been delivered without any "guts" or a lot missing. Still? The place I shopped was a place where my contractor is a very big customer. So I still got a great discount, and local folks to help is anything goes wrong.

Long story short- find a GC who understands your goals, get your line item bid and don't look back!

I figured if I can't find a plan that is close out of the thousands available then the chance of an architect designing one for me is low.

Wrong because internet plans are basically generic plans designed for the masses. Meaning they need to sell thousands of plans to make their money so they will do what the masses think they want. It's fitting your lives to the house, vs fitting the house to your lives.

Also these houses on the internet, do not take into consideration your location, how much land you have, your best views, the topography of your land, etc. An architect will take all that into consideration and also how you want your family to live.

An architect will design a house that works for you and your family and hopefully if they are good at their jobs, will do it in an artful way that gives you joy every time you pull up to your house, or walk through your home.

Perfect "pitch", cpartist. I still can't figure out why people would want to buy a plan that isn't designed for their location. All that you said, and more, My architect, latest plan, spent several hours on our lot, at different times of the day, gaging the wind flow/light- we literally got those two things, along with the topography study, before he even talked to us about design ideas. It was amazing, and took months away from considerations.

In this case I'm just not going to get 30K+ of enjoyment from a unique plan.... with kids have little time to make it 'perfect' and making mistakes would bug me eternally. But I appreciate that others do! Not without risk... the custom house I had was fabulous to look at but was uncomfortable, hard to furnish, noisy, difficult to heat and cool.

I did choose plans with deep overhangs and porches to keep out the rain and sun. Unless someone thinks those plans are inappropriate for our climate? I will do a topo survey and site plan from someone who plans agricultural properties. I plan to site it to keep the outdoor areas shaded and maximize energy efficiency.

cpartist ... Wrong because internet plans are basically generic plans designed for the masses.

You can also substitute 'masses' for 'future buyers', 'appraisers', 'bank loan officers'.

Many of the plans for sale were designed for an individual and being resold I assume? Architects can resell plans or reuse parts. Larger firms have a large library of plans and components they pull from. Specifications can come from a service like this one (I highly recommend the book Architectural Graphic Standards if you are working directly with subs).

jshorey- you're telling a good story, that which is meaningful to you. And you're correct- most architects keep ownership of their plans. Mine was honest and upfront about that, and actually charged me much, much less for that honesty- and he is a decorated, award-winning designer. I know places around the city where things designed for my home exist. But my total home is nowhere but on my lot. I'm good with that...

Do take care on any areas that you're considering "not finishing". I paid cash for my latest build but? Unfinished spaces still would have been flagged by city inspectors, and NO WAY would I get a Certificate of Occupancy, had I left them. So be very smart in all your considerations, and get the best GC you can find.

I like that you're considering outside, within weather. Just make sure it's exactly what you need. I was a Budget Nazi, on the latest build, and had only a 5% overage on costs. Nearly all of it went to exterior features to make the house low-no maintenance. I don't regret it at all.

What you are asking for will likely not work. If you want to take on all that sourcing, then you will likely need to be your own general contractor (i.e be listed on the building documents, be present for all the inspections etc) and then you can also hire a site superintendent / project manager for a fixed fee / monthly fee.

No GC / Builder wants to take on the responsibility of waiting on you and your delivery schedule / decision making and all your sourcing activities, etc and yet they are responsible for budget and delivering on time.

I know this because we are GC'ing our project in this very manner in Wake County, NC. We source almost everything, pay everything and utilize his expertise with local subs and managing the day to day operations. However, we've chosen many of the "specialty" subs like the wall panel manufacturer and the roof panel installer and the cistern / rainwater collection dude.

Juanita's process sounds promising - but I would expect it to be unlikely in this neck the woods. Contractors / builders and subs are busy right now. They are doing bread and butter builds.

Eh? Juanita checking in. My "process" was in Austin TX, at a time when 1% to 1.5% of ALL US homestarts were in my city. Jammed up, not enough labor etc etc.

I won because I frankly didn't care about any story but mine. I hired a decorated architect, who brought his partners in to do things like design this lady's kitchen. Then he brought me a builder who heard my words:

"We're a hot market right now, but it's about to cool off. What goes up always comes down. I will NOT be one who spends for 'equity, later'. I want it now"

Oh yes. A very talented builder who understood that we live in a hot neighborhood, that he was building against people who had no value proposition and oh-

On a lot that has a view of downtown that nobody else within blocks can get.

We had a ball, did it all, and I'm a lot, lot richer in equity for it.

It can be done. Be smart. Find the best people, and let them move you to where you want to go.

You can also substitute 'masses' for 'future buyers', 'appraisers', 'bank loan officers'.

Having a custom designed house doesn't mean the house has to be so "out there" that it won't appraise. I'd venture to guess that most of the folks who build a custom house designed by a person of design talent or an architect have houses that appraise for the same or more than equivalent homes. My house is a custom home and we had no problem getting a rather substantial building loan. One that will convert to a conventional loan when we finish building.

Many of the plans for sale were designed for an individual and being resold I assume?

I would assume like you that some or many were. However as you just mentioned they were designed for an "individual". Meaning the architect did all the things I suggested above in that they worked with the homeowner to come up with a plan that would work for that individual, on that individual's lot, in that individual's climate.

Architects can resell plans or reuse parts.

Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. Many times they agree not to recreate the home as it truly is a custom one of a kind home.

Larger firms have a large library of plans and components they pull from. Specifications can come from a service like this one (I highly recommend the book Architectural Graphic Standards if you are working directly with subs).

Pulling from column A and column B may work well for a Chinese food meal, but it never works well for trying to pull together a beautiful home that will live well. And we see the results of people trying the Column A, Column B method here all the time and with rare exceptions, it isn't pretty.

That "W" roof is a big no-no. Around here, it would fill up with snow and ice and be nothing but trouble. Even without snow, it needs special care to install roofing that won't leak, probably end up adding a 'saddle' to insure the water drains to the outer eave. Its a short "W" and could be filled in, that is bridged with peak having a lesser slope than the main roof, or just extend the two outer roof sides to form a higher, single peak.