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kawerkamp

Is this house too long? Honest opinions on our elevation, please!

kawerkamp
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

We are trying to finalize the elevations on our home and
would love some candid opinions. Our
designer offered these two elevation options; we gravitated towards Option A
because I love the look of wrapped porches and it the overall look seemed more
welcoming to me. I’m attaching a virtual rendering of how option A
would look so you have a better sense of the dimensions than the 2-D provides. We wonder if things look properly proportioned
to carry off the length of the house (it’s 148’ long, which is very long and 8’
longer than option B—as you’ll see on the floorplan, my designer had to angle
out the master shower so that the porch would have something to wrap into. Fortunately the far left garage bay is set back so most people won't see the full length of the home unless they pull into our culdesac around to that side). At
this point (a year into the design), I have tunnel vision and have gone through
so many versions of the elevation that I don’t trust my own judgment of what is
pretty anymore. We started out with white Southern farmhouses and Swedish cottages
as inspiration images for our designer to work with, and it has been an
evolving process from there (seems almost impossible to capture the charm of
our inspiration homes on a house our size—the “cottage” vibe is very difficult
to scale!). While we will stay in the house for the next 20 years, we absolutely
care about resale and want to build something with strong curb appeal.

Option A:

Option B:

3D rendering of Option A:

I’m including the floorplan of the main floor (we have a partial
upstairs with 3 beds/2 baths for our six children). My concern is not so much about cutting
square footage (pathetically, when I go room by room, I don’t know where I can
cut any space!—as much as I have dreamed of a cozy, intimate cottage, my
husband and I both come from very large families (14 and 7 children) and need
the central areas to be large enough to accommodate family gatherings). The sport-court (goes from basement level up)
is obviously what makes this house so long, but we live in a very cold part of
the country and it will be a well-used feature of our home—everyone we’ve met
who has one say it was the best money they spent—kept their kids active instead
of gaming, the family built great memories doing fun things in there, and their
house was a magnet for all the kids in the neighborhood. So I’m not sure if there’s any way around the
house looking large because it is (we’ve considered doing a detached
sportcourt, but building it adjoined to the house saves a ton of money, I love
that I can look down on it from my mom’s office, and we will use it much more
having it connected to the house, rather than trudging through the snow). My
biggest concern at this point is that the house is too dang long. I hope it
will look better in real life with a charming landscape to blend and balance
things (we're on 3 acres) and make it as inviting a home as possible. I want a classic and welcoming home that passerbys would say, “Oh, what a beautiful, home,” rather than, “Holy
hannah, that house is a monstrosity!”

So my questions are: 1) Which do you think is more attractive--Elevation
A or B (or are you not a fan of either and
think we should go back to the drawing board--no need to be polite--I'd prefer honesty because my confidence in my aesthetic eye is really wavering at this point!)? 2) Having seen the 3-D rendering
of A, do you think it is proportioned to pull off the length of the house? 3)
If not, any ideas of how to reduce the overall width of the floorplan/more efficient way to lay things out?

I doubt the dimensions on this will be clear, so here are a few key dimensions (total length 148'):

-Sportcourt 32x50, Den 15x13.5, Great Room 19.5x19.5, Entry 11x14, Master 15x18, Dining 18x15, Sunroom 17x13.5, Kitchen 15x22, Mom's Office 9x9, Garden nook/potting room 7.5x9.5

Comments (67)

  • larecoltante Z6b NoVa
    7 years ago

    So I love long, rambling houses with nice connections to the outdoors and I think you can do better.

    I think you need to think about the relationship between the sizes of the rooms. Your mom's office is going to seem like the tiny PE teacher's office off the school gymnasium. The noise could be pretty intense as well. No matter the actual sizes of your garden room, office, and pantry, etc., they will be dwarfed by the size of the sports court. If you think you need it (and I think it's a 2016 version of a pool or tennis court, without the historical associations to make it comfortable to many buyers), you need to allow room for it to breathe. You could set it apart from the house, with decking or a grassy area for outdoor sports. If the kids are eager to play on snowy days they could shovel a path to their indoor playground. Prospective buyers might see it as an entertainment barn (Google Bunny Williams--she has a lovely one).

    I also question squashing everyone around the island for meals. You are building a big house--give some square footage so your family can eat comfortably without elbowing each other.

    The kids' bedrooms are upstairs so I can't tell how they relate to the rest of the house. On a proportional basis, how much time will your children spend in their rooms, studying, eating meals, doing chores, and playing? Give them space and comfort for the fundamental and primary activities.

    Are you ok that books and music will be in a multi-function space that your husband has to share and sports are in a single-use space?

    I'm another one voting for a talk with an architect. You could have a really incredible house that connects the house, garages, decks, and play areas to each other and the land.

    kawerkamp thanked larecoltante Z6b NoVa
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  • MDV
    7 years ago

    A in my opinion. It seems more visually exciting and old world. B is more "toned down" and more contemporary-ish. I love wide rambling homes and have driven by Hulk's former Clearwater estate many times :)

  • rockybird
    7 years ago

    Do you have an architect? I agree with Virgil 100%.

  • bpath
    7 years ago

    I think the Scandinavian vibe tends to be simpler, with fewer planes on the front. I wonder about the shower, sticking out all by itself, with a window to the front porch. Not sure where you are, but it Might be a chilly shower. Mom's office is a bit isolated though it overlooks the sport court, but you might want a view of something else, besides. The butler pantry doesn't seem to have room for much beyond the second fridge, so why not eliminate it, open that space up to the pantry and mudroom, for a great transition spot? Come to think of it, why not move the main entry to that side, too? Though I really like using the front entry and stairs to separate the master and other bedrooms from the living areas.

    kawerkamp thanked bpath
  • littlebug zone 5 Missouri
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Another curious question: I can't read the print in the circled red area. It's apparently part of the master bath (it's too small to be a stand-alone space, and I can't see any other access to it), but what is it? I guess there's a very small opening into it from the bath on the left side. Hopefully there's no plumbing in this area, because you have stated you live in a very cold area and it wouldn't be a good idea to have pipes in one of the three exterior walls. Is it a washer/dryer spot? Seems like poor planning to have to tack it onto the side of the house like that.

    Edited to add: I just read bpathome's post above. This spot is a SHOWER?? It looks frigid.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    As it's designed, it's going to cost a small fortune to build too. There are 50 jigs and jogs on this house.

    What does the roof look like?

    I agree with those who say you can do a lot better.

    kawerkamp thanked cpartist
  • artemis_ma
    7 years ago

    Would it be possible to put the sports court in the basement? You could lessen the overall footprint that way, even with bringing up the 2 guest bedrooms.

    And yes, that kitchen island doesn't foster family interactions.

  • just_janni
    7 years ago

    The OP said that the sports court is already dug out to basement level. If you tried to put the house on top of that - you'd either 1) dig to Australia or 2) have a mile high house. It takes height to have a basketball court / be able to do these indoor sports activities...

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Janni, I missed where she said the sports court is dug out. I read that nothing is built yet. The minimum height of an indoor basketball court needs to be 16' high so it could very well be done in a basement if designed right.

  • worthy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Speaking of basketball...MJ's Chicago area home, also in a cold climate, follows the "decoupling" and "disconnecting" theme. Albeit on a grand scale.

    How high can you jump? Michael Jordan's 32,000 sf. seven-acre estate

    Now reduced to $14,855,000 from $29 million in 2012. (Sorry, no "open houses". Showings by appointment only to qualified prospects.)

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    Hawt Dawg! I'm gonna lace up my Nike's and jog right over there...!

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Artemis & Anglophilia, Occasionally folks do gyms double deep under their
    garages, but those feel like dark dungeons to me, are very costly construct due
    to the excavation and amount of concrete involved for retaining walls, and lack
    any natural light. The favored way of
    constructing them is to have them attached to the garage, going from basement
    level to above ground (which gives you the ideal 22’ high ceiling)--they are a
    bright and inviting space. From the outside, you’d have no idea they were a gym—they
    just appear to be an extension of the garage or another large space. Attaching a sketch of our back elevation so
    you can see what the gym looks like (it’s on the right--the big 7' window, flanked by two side windows).

    I agree that there is a lot of space allocated for the gym--we thought long and hard about whether we really wanted to do this after seeing more and more of them in Parade Homes. We don't have boats, snow machines, or other recreational toys, so we decided this would be our recreational splurge that we could use on a daily basis. With big families and a climate that keeps you indoors 6 months of
    the year, a sport court gets heavily utilized for those lucky enough to have
    one: we plan to use ours basketball (it will be so convenient to coach practices at our house instead
    of always search for a court that we can reserve at a local school!), badminton,
    climbing wall, dance parties, even just riding bikes in them during the winter,
    etc. Some people have them as separate
    structures if they decided to later add one to their home, but most everyone I
    know who did new construction includes them under the same roof because it’s far
    more economical to build them that way (half the exterior walls, easier to heat,
    etc.) and they get maximal use out of them when they can just run downstairs to use
    the court rather than trudge through the snow or dark.

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Cpartist: “As it's designed, it's going to cost a small
    fortune to build too. There are 50 jigs and jogs on this house.” I worry
    about this too! Everyone says a box is
    the cheapest thing to build….but I’m not sure how to balance economy with
    wanting character in the design.

    Littlebug, Yes the jut out is a shower! I told the designer that shower must be on an
    exterior wall (I LOVE windows in a shower, and they have to be operable because
    I love open air showers in the summer----it’s placed high and we live in the
    country, so I have no privacy concerns).
    That said, my first reaction was the same as yours when I saw it
    sticking out like that! The designer
    assured me that the walls are engineered to insulate plumbing with no problems,
    but I’m still a little skeptical…

    Re. opinions on basement bedrooms, this is clearly a
    regional difference in building norms and lifestyles. In our region, EVERY
    house has a basement and it is part of the core floorplan of the home, not a second
    class dungeon—in fact, nearly everyone puts their bedrooms in the basement with
    the exception of the master and occasionally a second child’s nursery on the
    main floor (unless they have a two story home, but most homes here are ranches).
    So I have no problem having guest rooms in the
    basement (something has to go there!). We are finishing our basement at 9’ ceilings,
    beautiful trim and large tiered pecky cedar window wells to bring in lots of
    light, so they should be a lovely part of the home.

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Anglophilia, which living spaces would you enlarge to make
    the central areas of the home more livable? (We have 3584 sqft on the main, and
    I don’t want to go any bigger, but open to what you would view as better
    allocations of space!)

    Worthy and Virgil, please "enlighten" me ;-) A home that is light and bright was #1 on my list of requirements for our designer, so help me understand why your sense is that this plan would be dark inside because that would be so sad to me! We kept the house only 2-rooms deep so that every room would have a big bank of windows and all 6 exterior doors on the main level also have glass in them to bring in even more light (if you look at the sketch of the back of the home that I posted above just now, you'll see it's very window-heavy...in fact, our builder commented that this is the heaviest window package he's ever done).

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Okay, for those of you who have encouraged us to hire an architect, please advise me! We unfortunately are in an area that has no residential architects, so I attended the Parade of Homes in a neighboring state for the past 4 years and chose the design firm (they have a staff of designers and in-house draftsmen) that does many of the high-end homes there and has consistently won the People's Choice votes and "Best of Houzz" awardsj for their state. They are about 4 hours away, so after an initial face-to-face meeting, we did everything over the phone/computer. We've spent $30K so far on this design (perhaps that may seem like nothing to some of you, but it was a lot to us, and it's considered outrageous here--99.9% of folks here either buy a stock plan or hire one of the local draftsman (who are terrible) for $2K to draw up a plan). Sooo, I'm willing to ignore the sunk costs and start over, but I have no idea how to find the talent I need. Are you recommending that I use an architect because you have issues with the floorplan (designing a home with a gym is no easy feat--it's a major piece to work around!) or is it because you think the exterior is ugly? If it's just that you think the home is ugly, do you think that can be remedied by taking great care with our finish details and trimwork, or that we actually need an entirely new look for the home, in which case, do you think I could take my floorplan to someone and tell them to keep the general concept of the floorplan but create a new elevation?

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    The OP wrote, "...We kept the house only 2-rooms deep so that every room would have a big bank of windows..." Well this is a good strategy for interiors to be filled with natural light, but as I look at your plan, I don't see anywhere that is simply 2-rooms deep. I see spaces with up to 4-rooms deep, plus an internal corridor. Your Great Room-Dining Room-Sun Room is three, very large and deep rooms ganged together. Only your Den-Kitchen is "2-rooms" deep, but the 2-rooms are virtually the depth of the 3-rooms, Great-Dining-Sun rooms. The natural light just isn't going to penetrate to those depths.

    As for the design, there are issues with both the floor plan and exteriors. Strong architectural design is a combination of integration with the site, and integration between interiors and exteriors. The interior can never be separate from the exterior and vice-versa. What happens in one has a direct influence with the other.

    There's simply no way that the exterior is going to be substantially improved by adding more or different rouge and lipstick to the exterior. Without changing the plan, the exterior is always going to be a huge and rambling mass under a single roof. And without changing the exterior, the interior is always going to be large and dark.

    I'm sorry to have to say it--if you want an improved design you need to start with a clean sheet of paper, and an experienced and creative architect who has a successful record of large residential projects.

    "Parade of Homes" is a builder's marketing and advertising program, wherever they are held. These are not the place to find an experienced and creative architect. The exist to show houses completed by builders.

    Given the size of your project and your budget, you should be able to find interested architects, even at a distance.

    kawerkamp thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
  • Oaktown
    7 years ago

    When I think cottage or farmhouse I think of simple forms. Your current plan is for a single massing living/entertainment complex, so I think it would be very difficult to evoke "Southern farmhouse" (unless you are thinking plantation manor) or "Swedish cottage." To get to farmhouse/cottage I think probably the simplest way is to build with that in mind, i.e. let the house be the house, the gym be the "barn", the garage be the "stables" (or something like that). If you didn't want to connect them above ground you might use subterranean tunnels ;-)

    If you are set on having everything as part of a single massing for other reasons (convenience, cost, etc.) then your tradeoff is a long (or large) house. I think both elevations A and B are nice. Not ugly at all, just really big. Personally I prefer to leave off decorative gables.

    Good luck!

    kawerkamp thanked Oaktown
  • worthy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hard to walk away from thirty large! Besides, given your parameters and taste, I can't imagine it coming out any different with a new designer. As it's essentially just a variation on the usual tract builder's model, as pointed out above, resale shouldn't be a problem.

    That's assuming you're right that bedrooms in the basement and attached sportsplexes are usual in your frozen environment.

    *****

    BTW, that's a complex roof with lots of valleys and intersecting planes to which great attention should be paid to avoid water problems down the line.

    kawerkamp thanked worthy
  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    If you don't have snow mobiles and other toys like that, why do you need a 4 car garage?

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    My van goes in bay 1, husband's truck in Bay 2, trailer/tractor/wheelbarrow/mower for the farm in bay 3, and bay 4 will currently be filled with the zillions of bikes and scooters and junk my kids have accumulated but eventually will house the kids' car.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    So the question is, can't bay 3/4 be a detached unit so the house isn't so massive in appearance?

  • artemis_ma
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Ok, point taken about needing tall ceilings for the sports court. I also see that a separate building for it would be markedly pricier. Plus a parent might want to keep an eye on the kids, harder to do if they are in a separate building.

    I think the answer will be to engage a professional architect with experience in large residential abodes. And to encourage him/her to simplify that expensive roof line.

    Something L shaped, or potentially U shaped (less desirable) may work. My parents once owned the latter, and for them it worked simply due to proper directional orientation to the sun.

    Edit : my brother and I lived in basement bedrooms in that house, to no ill effect. Other than dad's jokes about getting me a step stool should I decide to elope....

    kawerkamp thanked artemis_ma
  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    cpartist, good suggestion...perhaps we can lop off at least one of the bays and house some of those items in our barn.

    Artemis, yep, it's much cheaper that way and I want to be able to keep an eye on kiddos in the sport court. Great suggestion on house shape--the more I think about it, the more I think an L or U-shape (the birds-eye-view design that Virgil posted is great) may be the way to go to keep the house from being too long, yet still allow plenty of light into the home. Now how to search out a fabulous architect from afar...

  • homechef59
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Not to drum up business for him, but Architectrunnerguy is on this forum frequently. He is experienced and talented. I know of two homes that he has successfully designed for people who were struggling at this very forum. Perhaps you should contact him. He did both of these houses long distance. Many of us have seen the designs. I am thinking of building and I would seriously consider him based on what I have seen in his designs. Get in touch with him for an opinion. Do a search under his name here at Gardenweb and you can review some of his work. You need more than a draftsman.

    kawerkamp thanked homechef59
  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm sorry, but I had to laugh OUT LOUD at the "larger houses are easier
    to clean than smaller houses." Nope. No way. Not even close. I clean my
    own home. Currently, we're in 2,000sf (getting ready to downsize to
    900sf). It takes me a good 15-20 hours per week to keep it clean,
    top-to-bottom. That's dusting, vacuuming, changing linens, sweeping,
    mopping, bathrooms (just 2 of those), kitchen cleanup, laundry,
    recycling/trash taking out, and everyday stuff like clutter-busting.
    That does NOT count less-frequently cleaned spots like the basement or
    deep-cleaning cabinets, fridges, closets, under/behind furniture,
    washing windows, dusting light fixtures and mini-blinds, etc. Plus I
    work full-time.

    I've lived in tiny places (750sf) too, and I can
    easily keep that clean in less than 5 hours/week (plus laundry time).
    Fewer rooms, less square-footage...

  • jilldag
    7 years ago

    imstillchloecat,

    I totally agree. I am baffled by the comment!

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Fair enough, imstillchloecat! Although I can't wait to have a place for everything (just a mudroom and pantry will change my world!!), I acknowledge some wishful thinking! Your home sounds like a serene sanctuary from the chaos of our current 4000sqft/6 young children not-so-tidy home! Sometimes I have to remind myself that someday my children will grow up and I'll have a chance at house that stays clean...sigh, looking forward to that serene cottage in retirement....in the meantime though, we are now looking hard at where we can cut square footage from our plan! Very tricky when you want living areas large enough to accommodate large family gatherings and then that square footage gets duplicated in a basement (I'm locking up areas of the basement when they're not in use so no one can dirty them!).

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thank you very much, homechef. Off to check his stuff out now! I welcome other recommendations for a talented architect who understands charming farmhouse or cottage style (but the interior will not be a stately historic feel--I'm not into fancy traditional finish work; I love light, connection to the outdoors, cheerful funky tile, clean simple trim, sort of a breezy california boho style). Please let me know if you have a favorite architect that does remote work!

  • jilldag
    7 years ago

    kawerkamp,

    I was having the same problem when we were designing our home with our architect. Although I was trying to keep it under 4,500 square feet, it ended up being closer to 5,500 square feet. Having said that, I have a comfortable mudroom, spacious laundry room, 2 oversized pantries, an second kitchen, an exercise room, large walk in closets throughout, walk in linen closet with storage behind, a closet in the study, you get the point! A majority of the space is storage and organizational areas. The actual living area, which is the part that will get the most traffic and therefor need to be cleaned more frequently, is not all that large! So I do understand your point. We did, however, decide to eliminate the basement. We have outdoor living off the back, an indoor pool off the right, and a courtyard off the left. We did not really have anywhere that could let in light, and I didn't want all of the extra space to clean!

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Sounds like an excellent design, jilldag. I'm all about well thought-out storage and organization so that living space stays cleaner!

  • jilldag
    7 years ago

    Good luck on your build... For what it's worth, I like your design... : )

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    BTW Kawerkamp, I'm all for the sports court and think it would be a fabulous feature. I had seen a house many years ago that had one in the basement. I've also seen houses with indoor swimming pools, and I don't mean small pools. (I grew up in West Egg, although we lived on the "poor" side of town.) So I know all of what you're wanting to do is doable, and it can be done well.

    One question you were concerned about is light coming in. Here is how I anticipate the light coming into your house. Of course sun direction will affect that too. Yellow would be the light coming in. I left it off where you have covered porches, etc.

    Notice the large section of the middle of the house which will be dark.

    BTW: Do you have a roof plan?

    kawerkamp thanked cpartist
  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I think I understand. You have so much STUFF that you need the space to ORGANIZE THE STUFF. We're not "stuff keepers," so our needs are completely different than yours. And yeah - six kids definitely have a lot of STUFF. You will totally enjoy your empty nest - we do! And you asked earlier - I like option A.

    You've stumbled into the same "trap" as many have that frequent this forum: you post your floorplan (I like it, especially since it fits YOUR needs), and a zillion keyboard quarterbacks are telling you what's wrong with it, even though they don't have to live in it and will never even visit it. :) If it works for you, then go for it! Asking you to write off $30K and "hire an architect" when the house will work exactly as you need it to is ridiculous.

    If you read through others' posts asking for floorplan critiques, you'll see the same people with the same comments over and over and over. Take those comments for what you paid for them. :) (If you want more light in the great room, ditch the overhang/porch roof in front of it.)

    kawerkamp thanked User
  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks chloecat--I'm glad that not everyone thinks the past year of work is too dastardly! (I'm truly grateful for the critiques, but it is a lot to process and to figure out which issues to tackle and which to say "who cares" to!)

    cpartist, here's the roofplan (hope it loads with enough resolution to decipher). It's honestly a foreign language to me--i.e., I have little sense of what is a complex roofplan and what comprises an efficient water drainage plan. This is one area where I absolutely will go back to the drawing board if expert eyes determine that it is 1) unnecessarily complicated (I realize it's not a simple roof because of the size of the home, but if it seems particularly complex, I assume I would make back additional drafting/architectural fees to rework things by ultimately saving $ in construction costs) or 2) a leak/frozen ice trap waiting to happen (being in snow country, that is not something I want to mess with!). Would very much appreciate your feedback on it!

  • cpartist
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Everyone says a box is the cheapest thing to build….but I’m not sure how to balance economy with wanting character in the design.

    Character isn't created by adding jigs and jogs. That's a builder's trick when he/she has nothing else to offer.

    Just like a well dressed woman doesn't wear too much makeup or have multiple pieces of jewelry on any available body part, a well designed house doesn't rely on tricks such as jigs and jogs that are there for no good reason and applied moldings to create beauty.

    Here's a couple of examples what look like well designed farmhouse style

    Arroyo Grande Modern Farmhouse · More Info

    Modern Farmhouse in Dallas, Texas · More Info

    Front of the House · More Info
    Front
    Front Elevation of Contemporary European Farmhouse in White Stucco Metal Roof · More Info
    Rear of house above
    Rear Elevation of Contemporary European Farmhouse in White Stucco Metal Roof · More Info

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  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Helpful light analysis, cpartist! I wish I could forecast how much light will enter the dining via the sunroom. I'm curious what you think it will feel like in the great room (btw, it's on the front of the house because all the views of the valley are in that direction). We did extra tall 7' windows on the great room to bring in light inspite of the porch (8' deep)--do you think that's enough to compensate or is there no way of getting around a dark room if you have a porch? I'm hesitant to pull the porch because I like the look of front porches and we face NW so we put the porch there partially to ward off the western sun (then again, perhaps by the time the sun is in the west, it will be so low, the light will be coming in horizontally and the porch won't make a difference anyhow?)

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    If you read through others' posts asking for floorplan critiques, you'll see the same people with the same comments over and over and over. Take those comments for what you paid for them. :)

    Honestly people who post their plans normally post them for one of two reasons.

    1. They think their plan is great and want others to pat them on the back for creating a great plan.

    2. They know something is "off" or they're not sure if it will meet their needs so they want to get other opinions. The OP was unsure of her design and her plan. What she decides to do about it, is her own decision. But we would be remiss to not make suggestions and just assume the OP is like #1.

    I can tell you that there are a few people who we've suggested to get an architect, and they listened and are thrilled with their results because of it.

    This is a very large, and a very expensive house to build. Why not get it right? And right in a climate that has lots of wintery days means bringing in as much light as possible during those days. It also means creating a roofline that isn't complicated or that will have water and ice problems.

    It also means creating a house with good flow throughout. The OP may or may not take all or even any of our suggestions, but isn't it better if she goes into her build with her eyes wide open and knowing what she does or doesn't want to change?

    And the reason we have the same comments over and over is because the problems we see with floor plans over and over are the same problems. I am no expert, but there are several who do post here, including Virgil (who was an architect and taught it and I believe ran an architecture program) and I would seriously listen to them.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm hesitant to pull the porch because I like the look of front porches and we face NW so we put the porch there partially to ward off the western sun (then again, perhaps by the time the sun is in the west, it will be so low, the light will be coming in horizontally and the porch won't make a difference anyhow?)

    I'm certainly no expert, but my understanding is the best direction to face a house is south, so if the rear of your home is south, then that is where the majority of the windows should be facing. Add overhangs for summer sun.

    For your front facing porch, how west is northwest? LOL.

    The problem with west facing is in winter, many of the winds come from that direction and in summer, the sun in the late afternoon can bake a room, depending how far north you are and what your summer temps can get to.

    My old house built in 1898 and on Long Island, NY had a front yard that faced north. That side of the house was the last to lose the snow. The light that is north light is great for an artist because it's the most even, but not wonderful for lighting the house. My living room in that old house had west and north windows. The windows were 6' long and the front (north windows) was a large bay. The west windows were blocked by trees thankfully but the north windows weren't. The living room was never light and bright.

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  • suser123
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Really like your plan. Elevation A is my favorite. Worthy was right. Even if you start over the floor plan will likely be very similar. Because your needs will be the same. People will point out many things the way they would do it in their house. Think those are most helpful because it helps you realize what really does work for your family. Give you more confidence in the plan and if it will work for your family.

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Great examples, cpartist--such clean gabled roofs. Most are a little too stark for my tastes, but that 3rd one has been my inspiration house for forever--LOVE it. (Maybe I just need to see who that architect was....my luck would be that they are one of those architects who charges 10% of total build--not happening in our world!)

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    Title of this post is "...Honest opinions please...We are trying to finalize the elevations on our home and would love some candid opinions..."

    Many of the architects who frequent this forum just pass over these sorts of "critique my plan, please" postings. The reason is that, more often than not, there are so many issues with the design that it makes posting in response very challenging. The reasons that there are so many challenging issues, more often than not, frankly, is that the designs were done by someone who doesn't have a lot of creative experience and skill. It's really that simple.

    If one wants more than a design which will keep the rain out and will be warm in winter, then one needs help from someone who has successfully designed (not drafted) creative and rewarding houses for an extended period.

    Somewhere in the thread, if it's long enough, someone will come along and say, "Don't pay any attention to the comments...do what's best for you!" That's always very good advice, but then why come here in the first place?

    Do what's best for you!

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  • PRO
    Anglophilia
    7 years ago

    I sometimes wonder why anyone posts his plans on this site. We come from SO many perspectives! Most people posting are building a house in a subdivision, not people buying property and then designing a house for their needs that suits the property. If someone is even considering a subdivision-type house, or is looking to adapt "stock" plans, then that is exactly how that person wants his house to look and be arranged. That's the kind of house they like and most likely the kind their friends have, too.

    Then there is an outlier such as me. My "subdivision house" was built in 1948, and in fact, all the houses were custom built in this subdivision. Some of the ones built just before WWII were two story colonials that were identical inside, but slightly different on the outside. Over the years, various owners have added on and done so in different ways, so unless one knows the history of the neighborhood, it is not apparent.

    If one is determined to have an "open concept" floor plan, and a first floor master suite, the floor plan is pretty much predetermined. I have LOTS of problems with such plans as I think that ultimately, they don't work very well. The space always appears quite large on the floor plan, but when furniture is floated and not mostly against walls, one loses a LOT of space. Add lots of large family entertaining, and even at 3500 sq feet, it will feel cramped/crowded. "Open concept" works best in tiny houses where separate rooms would feel like a rabbit warren, or in very large ones, with tons of room to float furniture (think McMansion).

    People today want lots of garages as many families have lots of cars. For decades, a ONE car garage was standard, and then a 2 car became the standard about 70 years ago. Now, it is not unusual to see 4-5 car garages. The problem, of course, is how to site them - they are an imposing presence! And then there is the cost. Even though it is never included in the square footage of a house for sale, it does factor in the square footage cost of building and it can be a LOT! A friend of my daughter lives on a horse farm and built a house on the family farm. She wanted a beautiful, gracious home with lots of millwork details. It was custom designed and the bids to construct it came in a 4 times their budget. So, they did without the first floor MBR suite for 5-7 years and then added it, living in a 2nd flr smaller bedroom in the meantime. It was tight up there with three girls and their stuff! Ten years later, they finally added the garages. I think they have 4 at least.

    Sometimes a longterm plan is the best. One figures out how to get what one wants in the public rooms in a house, especially if one has large groups often. Then one saves to add onto the house and the design is already done and ready to go when the money is there. Believe me, I LOVE my garage - I'm far too old to be scrapping windshields! But perhaps you need to chose between that and the sport's court and make sure you have made your public rooms big enough for a crowd...or just your own very large family!

    Do speak to a roofer about your roof design. A roofer friend said that most houses today, with their multiple gables etc, cost a fortune when a new roof is needed ($30,000 to 40,000)!. They are very labor intensive, whereas a traditional single peaked roof (front and back both the same with no gables), is far less expensive. You don't mention if you have trees nearby; if you do, the leaves will gather in the valleys and are a huge nuisance.

    Good luck!

  • Oaktown
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    kawerkamp, the third house was designed by Fergus Garber Young.

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  • worthy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    And here's a version of the re-imagined European farmhouse transplanted to Los Angeles for his own home by architectural designer Dax "in the pool" Miller.

    Rear elevation of Dax Miller-designed LA residence.

    The point is: there's no reason you can't meet all your needs within a design that isn't like every other home you've seen.

  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Wow, Fergus Garber Young have some killer houses in their portfolio. Architect gurus: Would you advise me to steer clear of hiring an architect who designs for mild climates (Calif, southern states, etc) and instead select an architect based in cold climates so they are well versed in code for our weather, understand how to design roofs that can handle snow and ice, etc.? Or are those considerations that any architect can handle?

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Here's another one for you.

    Traditional Exterior · More Info

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    Here's a couple more, both by Robert Gurney, FAIA, showing with great skill how very large houses can be made into human scale residences:


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  • kawerkamp
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Lovely and unique homes, Virgil and cpartist. People roll their eyes at celebrities who collect houses, but I totally get it--if I didn't have to choose just one, I probably wouldn't either! So many architectural styles to embrace, just one life...I think I'm polyamorous when it comes to houses!

    That New Canaan house is so iconic. There is a very similar (but smaller) home I saw once while vacationing at Bear Lake--we drove past it, dropped our jaws, turned around and took photos. My husband (who has few opinions in this whole endeavor--just wants me to commit and start building the dang house already!) would not be sad at all if we went for the classic white house/black shutter look!

    I get to visit with architectrunnerguy tomorrow. Very excited!

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    I am so glad you'll be "visiting" with ARG tomorrow. He does excellent work and my guess is he'll be able to come up with something unique that still ticks off your boxes.