She is having trouble with the 6 speed manual transmission and reduced driving skills. (Hey. it happens. lol)

That's not a laughing matter.

If her driving skills are reduced, then a new car will not improve things. Be realistic and consider having only one car, and have her give up driving. Yes, hard to take, but safer for all others on the road.

Classic reply on your part. lol

If you think that anyone in their mid-70s is not driving at "reduced skills" you are not being realistic. She's a better driver than most, but a high power engine coupled with a six speed transmission demand motor skills not all have.

I dare say most people on this forum (of all ages) would find it beyond their comfort zone.

I hope some folks will chime in with some help on my finance based question.

Jim,

Thanks. I always drove a manual transmission vehicle. Gave it up in 1999. Have had two automatic transmissions since then. Much less of a distraction and arguably the gas mileage is not much of a different.

Thanks again.

Never having leased a car before, reading up on it now. Whichever way I go, I'll want to sell her old car. Not willing to sell it myself, I'll want to trade it in on the new car. I assume that can be done when one leases. Very low mileage, cherry. But neither of us wants to contend with the manual transmission any more.

I agree with Jim as technology is expanding so rapidly (particularly in making cars more "baby boomer friendly") so you will be able to explore more options. I know some neighborhood seniors have gone this route and really enjoy the freedom to "trade-in" their leased cars for newer, improved models.

Caveat--ensure that you will not exceed the standard mileage limit (usually 12,000 year) or opt for the extended milage lease to avoid end-of-lease penalties.

You can trade in your wife's car toward a new car lease.

This site provides credible information that may help you decide if this is a viable option.

http://www.dmv.org/how-to-guides/leasing.php

Mileage not an issue - we each drive less than 5,000 miles per year.

I would be a fool to say I don't care about cost, I appreciate the on-point help about the logic of leasing for people that historically hung onto cars for ~15 years and are now older than would make that likely.

Leasing and buying are the same from a financial standpoint - it's borrowing money, just that the traditional terms are different for each. Payments are based on the interest rate, the amount outstanding, and how much principal is amortized over the period of the contract. For a purchase, it's the purchase price minus downpayment. For a lease, it's the purchase price minus the bring back price and minus the downpayment. Sales tax on a purchase is on the purchase price and paid up front, sales tax on lease is on the payments (in most states). Period. There's no magic dust to sprinkle on either.

Lease payments are usually lower than purchase payments because there's less principal amortization. If you lease the car now for 3-5 years, if still driving then, you'll be faced with the same question again. Buying out the car at the end of a lease is usually unfavorable, usually comparable cars can be found at lower prices. If you plan to keep and drive this car beyond the lease term, then buy it. Whether you finance it or not is a different decision.

About a year ago, my friend and I were both looking for new cars and decided on the same make and model. We're both CPAs. He likes a new car every 3-4 years and so decided to lease it. I like to keep mine for 5-7 and so I decided to purchase mine. Same interest rate sponsored by the manufacturer, my payments are higher because I decided at the low interest rate to finance 100%. We're both happy with what we chose because we have different preferences.

Trust me salti.

I have never leased but something that used to be common in older leases was the provision if you needed to turn it in early you would be socked with a stiff penalty. When my FIL passed away his lease had this provision. When the executor turned the car in when his father died the penalty was more than the blue book value after only having been leased for under a year.

maifleur, the terms and conditions for a lease (or any other contract for that matter) are given by the seller assuming the contract will run its intended term.

-To close out a 5 year CD after 12 months, there's a penalty for early withdrawal

-To terminate a real estate lease early, there's typically a lease-break penalty due or a payment to negotiate, especially for commercial leases where the lessor has made tenant improvements.

-To pay off a loan early, there's often a prepayment penalty. (as would have likely been the case had the car been purchased and financed).

So yes, breaking a lease does involve a penalty.

That is why I mentioned it if Saltidog was still thinking about a lease. If he or his wife would have health problems they might need to give up one of the two vehicles. It is up to him to read the contract but it is something to be aware of.

Buying a car with a loan, followed by the borrower's death, might also lead to a penalty for prepaying the loan and a Blue Book adjustment. So what? Neither possibility is a good reason to pay cash for a car, in my view, if that's not what the person otherwise wishes to do. Nor a good reason to not get a new car.

Most people don't stop living their lives or make decisions with imminent death in mind. I heard a saying once, something like "multi-variable problems of life can't be definitively solved in advance or as a mental exercise, and most problems of life are multi-variable". Too many what-ifs to deal with. Sometimes you need to look at the big picture, go with what your gut tells you and make a decision without regard to the details or possible consequences should certain things happen or change. And decisions made in such a way should never be second guessed or revisited later. It's up to saltidawg to decide but this might be one of those times.

Plan A, pay cash for the car.

Plan B, Lease, ideally with a Single Payment and save the interest on the principle.

Plan C Lease

The only reason I posted here is that my age argues well against my using the car for 15 years, (We'd be 90 years old.) I am/was looking for input as to the rationale of Leasing.

I think I've received good advice and will post back in a month or so with my status.

(Right now I'm leaning toward writing a check for the car. We'll see.)

Salti,

You certainly seem capable of doing the math but you have a variable that is unknown, how long you're going to need a car. Now I know nothing about you but from what you've written it seems that if you spend, say, a few more thousand buying the car it isn't going to break you. So, assuming your wife can continue to drive, by leasing you'll have to go through this decision in another X years. If that's something you're willing to deal with, then go with the cheapest option. Otherwise, buy the car and be done with it.

My Mom is 82 and still drives. She's got some limitations certainly but I think that her knowing that she has, at least, some freedom run to the grocery store or have lunch with her friends is very important to her happiness.

mike,

Well said.

The two vehicles we are looking at are the brand new 2017 Honda CR-V, fully loaded, and the 2017 Ford Escape fully loaded. Both Small SUV's.

They are similarly priced, with the Ford being discounted and apparently the Honda (First available next week.) is going to be hard to get a discount on because of the newness.

As a matter of principle I really would balk at paying full MSRP for any car.

I'll post results in a few weeks.

I've bought several cars in the past few years and found that sometimes contacting dealerships through a TrueCar referral changes the price level discussion downward past what other conversations can accomplish. Costco referrals, not so much so.

I bought a fully loaded Honda Odyssey Elite just over a year ago for my Greyhound and I to get around in. (nice family car - and the big dog loves it!

I found USAA, Costco, and TrueCar to not work for me. 9They did cause me to get lots, and lots, and lots more phone calls.

If I do use a service to help, I may go with checkbook.org - a Consumers Reports like magazine in the greater Washington, DC, area. Not free, but a couple of hundred bucks gets me bids from cooperating dealers within the area.

The 2017 Ford Escape has been out for some time and all dealers offer sizeable reductions from MSRP. The 2017 Honda CRV comes out this Wednesday and the Dealers are claiming a hard-line do price concession line for the near future.

My experience last year has prompted me to join a Forum for each of the cars... people post their experiences with the cars and share cost experiences. Like anything else on line, one has to try to sort out the BS from the real thing. Also, things sometime vary depending on the part of the country the poster is in.

I've gotten good suggestions here and will continue to check back for any additional thoughts.

PS Learned one thing about Leasing re Sales Tax. Apparently in most states, Sales Tax is collected each month of the lease on the amount of the monthly payment. Keep the car for three years and you would have paid about half of the Sales Tax on the Full new car cost.

Here in Maryland (and three other States) they now collect the Sales Tax on the Full new Value of the car up front! Not a deal breaker, of course, but disappointing.

Well, my experience the Honda Dealers would not budge from Full MSRP with the CRV - on released 12/21. (I would get a $500 Retired Military from Honda.)

My wife decided that she preferred the Ford Escape - another small SUV.

Tried to negotiate with a local dealer on 12/27 for the Ford. The dealer would not honor it's Web Site Advertised Price. We walked out!

On 12/28 I approached another Ford Dealership and negotiated by E-mail - We got the Escape for some $4000 less that the ethically challenged dealership had offered.

We pick up the new car either tomorrow, 12/31 OR Monday 1/2/17. Car Dealers are closed on Sundays in my County (except one Sunday a month.)

We did decide to pay cash. My wife wrote the check.

As an aside, the Dealership offered us a Six Year Ford Factory Extended Warranty with a $50 Deductible for 36,000 miles for $1900.

I passed.

You do not have to buy the extended Warranty from the dealer that sells you the car - I shopped around and am getting an Eight Year, Zero Deductible, 36,000 mile, Ford Warranty for $680.

The selling dealer is four states away.

Well done!

I'm interested as I will be helping DD with a new car purchase soon.

Can you suggest effective email tactics?

How do you approach dealerships solely for warranties? What's their incentive to sell lower than others? And is it $680 annually or the total cost for 8 years?

Re the Extended (Factory) Service Plans (ESP), For the manufacturers that I am familiar with there are a few scattered dealerships that are content to sell a large number of ESPs with only a small markup. I'm guessing they have a person that does little more than this job!

Local Car Dealers make a lot of their profit by selling ESPs, "undercoating," Paint and interior protection policies, and service plans covering future oil changes, tire rotations, etc, etc.

I intend not to comment on any of these other than to say I paseed on all of these.

To find those dealers willing to sell you a Factory ESP, join a Forum for the car model that you are considering or get creative with google.

I'm buying a Ford - there are two or three dealerships that have been selling Ford/Lincoln ESPs for many years. Take look at:

a) floodfordesp.com

b) zieglerfordesp.com

Flood Ford in RI is a brick and mortar auto dealership that also will sell you a Ford Factory Extended Service Plan for a very small markup.

Fords come with a three year Factory Warranty. So if you look at Ford's site for a Six Year ESP, you are looking at the cost to add three years to the original warranty. This is the standard terminology in the trade.

Also, if you use google be aware that many people sell after-market Service Contracts. There is a whole set of arguments re their value when compared to a "Factory Warranty." Some of these sellers make their product sound as if it is a Factory Warranty, so be aware.

The $680 was for an Eight year (Five additional years) plan. One tie payment, not annual. For $20 or $60 more - one time - I can add some rental car coverage.

My wife and I are low mileage drivers - so I'm looking at a 36,000 or 48,000 mile cap. You may need to look down the page for a higher mileage coverage plan.

Also, I quoted the cost for a Zero Deductable Plan - there are $50, $100, and $200 deductible options at less cost.

Re e-mail tactics, I needed to find the Fleet Coordinator or Internet Manager, or some such - not a on the floor salesman. This can be difficult. Some dealers list a directory or bios section. I chose to use USAA to put me incontact with three dealerships. The risk here is that the dealership simply takes these kind of queries and assigns them to the next salesman in the rotation.

I took my old car to Carmax for a free appraisal. Virtually all of the dealerships in my area will match that number - and you could hope to better it, but that's a whole new game.

By E-mail I told the contacts the specific details of the car I wanted. And I mean VERY SPECIFIC. Color, upholstery, engine, Options, etc, and added that per KBB or Edmunds it would seem the MSRP would be about X dollars.

I added I had a current Carmax appraisal of my trade in. "I want an Out-The-Door cost for my car assuming a satisfactory inspection of my trade in and a matching $7000 Trade in credit.

They'll try to avoid giving you a straight answer, wanting to get you to come in for a "Test Drive, etc, etc.

Hold firm or walk.

This worked for me, but it requires you to research actual selling prices in your area for your car. There are lots of other ways, obviously, but this worked well for me this time.

Note I had no leasing and no financing involved.

My total time in the dealership was probably two hours - most of which was fending off sales pitches for stuff I didn't want. (The examined my trade in while those talks were going on. They matched Carmax.)

Hope this helps. I'm sure others will suggest other approaches - very possibly better!

I'm so appreciate of your detailed response-particularly the distinction between warranties.

I've delayed purchasing a car because it's always such a nerve wracking experience and an especially disadvantageous one for a woman.

This time I will research your suggestions to get my terms met instead of those of the dealership.

What I failed to mention is what do you do when the Manager replies and says, "Contingent on your trade in being valued at the Carmax appraisal, The out-the-door price for your car is $20,101 including Tax, Title, Registration, and fees," or similar.

You must have doe your due diligence before approaching the dealerships and have a maximum price or a fair price decided upon!

A response might be to the effect that as grateful as you are for his response, based on your research you value the car at $19,000, however because of the reputation of your Service Department and the overall business reputation you have I would be willing to meet your offer at $19,500. As an aside, I would mention that I will interested in purchasing a few accessories, such as All Weather Floor mats, body side molding, and .... However, first things first. I await your reply.

YOU MUST HAVE RESEARCHED AND DECIDED ON THE VEHICLE VALUE TO YOU BEFORE NEGOTIATING!!!!!

What?? Mats aren't included?

The additional information is appreciated--especially the "script". I do a lot of research, however the trade-in value always falls WAY short. These negotiations seem to go on forever, with multiple "conferences" between the salesperson and their invisible manager. It really requires a lot of physical and mental stamina and I'm in short supply of both.

Thanks for helping me achieve my 2017 resolution!

If you have a Carmax locally, as I do, the trade in value becomes a little easier to wrap your arms about.

The KBB and Edmunds Trade In value formy wife's car was in the $6700 - $9300 range. Carmax said $7000. Dealers variously said $5000, $6500, but agreed to match Carmax. (Her car was pristine... and the dealer is smarter and better armed about values than I am. They did not lose money.)

No local Carmax. I'd settle for Edmunds, but had to walk away from the dealer's $3000 offer.

Dealer Trade-in:

$5,420

Private Party:

$6,658

Dealer Retail:

$8,173

Carmax is a REAL offer to buy. Edmunds and kbb are not.

The local dealers here will match Carmax, they'd never agree to match kbb or Edmunds.

Wife drove the new Ford Escape home form the dealer tonight. Parked it in the garage.

Went inside to the Dining Room and checked her hone.

The car had texted her that is was now parked at "HOME."

This is not a Cadillac, this is a small Ford SUV.

I can't wait until she lets the car Parallel Park itself!

What?? Mats aren't included?

Years back I went to an auto show and Mercedes had their top of the line model sitting on a rotating platform. The only option on the windows sticker was floor mats for $125. I remember thinking a guy is going to drop, maybe, $80-90,000 on a Mercedes and not want the floor mats? What was he going to do, go to WalMart for a set? Cut up a couple of old throw rugs? <lol>

Salti,

If the Escape hits another car while parking itself, who is at fault? I'm betting it's not Ford... <lol>

Car came with Floor Mats (carpet). Just ordered All Weather (Rubber/plastic) Floor Mats.

The other "feature" is if you start wander from your paint defined lane, the car will a) Warn you; b) Warn you more vigorously; and c) initiate wheel correction to keep you in lane.

There is a couple of minute You Tube video showing the car in Cruise Control at 73 miles per hour, with the driver hands free, and the car going down the highway staying in lane.

Now add in Adaptive Cruise Control, with the car slowing down as other cars slow in front, and you've got a poor man's autonomous car.

The technology available in new cars is really cool, especially entertainment choices and navigation. I have a car with parallel parking and like it a lot.