.waiting for your photos

meanwhile-it doesn't seem so light..at least not in terms of money. we were quoted 10-12K on the small bathroom, materials not included...plumbing staying where it is..etc. Decided not to do it as we had a huge general remodel going on, with addition, kitchen, master bath etc..had to save somewhere..especially knowing myself-the materials wouldn't be cheap..

We did replace the vanity though, changed lights, added different mirror..cosmetic changes. Bough the vanity off Craigslist so saved several hundred dollars on vanity (which included already countertop, sink, faucet..). Bought a rug, a shower curtain..in short, cosmetic changes. If I'm very very honest-the vanity was very cheap but then shower curtain cost like vanity, and the rug did, and the mirror plus light were probably like vanity and a half..:) Ah, we built the niche between the studs, put a long medicine cabinet there. That was the greatest improvement-in terms of functionality. It's not completely put together yet, I mean the whole room..I started thinking-we should have redone this small bathroom maybe too lol. The vanity is 36-37 as well so I imagine space wise it's similar to yours

were quoted 30-35K on a bigger master bath..also-plumbing stays..don't remember whether materials were included-we never got to it, just changed the flooring

the master bath we built from the scratch as a part of the addition-was a part of a much larger quote with finished materials on us, with several exclusions(windows, frameless shower door, custom vanity, mirrors, a door). Not going to count the materials we spent..we saved like crazy on fixtures but they had to redo a lot so we kept ordering this tile, that tile..

In short. Start with your priorities. What you definitely need, what you want..Make a plan with dimensions. Be ruthless..we weren't, we wanted too many things..)) too many things-a mistake in framing..mistake of one-two inches in framing-you've got a problem on your hands.

Think also whether you wouldn't prefer a tub while your kids are little...

Yeah, I had only a stand up shower myself when my eldest was little but not like it's the greatest most comfortable choice for bathing a kid.

I believe you'll get much more helpful responses after you post a pic

No experience with plaster walls..

Oh you already got one helpful response when I was writing!

Sorry, I should clarify about the tub/shower situation. We would like to keep the current tub if possible and put in a shower surround. And while I like the look of tile in a tub/shower combo, I think some kind of surround may work better for us in the long run. We would tile the floor.

Thanks for the helpful tips. I doubt we have the budget for a 30K guest/kid bath! We will probably do a few things ourselves, but leave the major stuff (building the wall, anything with plumbing or waterproofing) to our contractor, which we've worked with before. While I'd like to do the tile ourselves and I've done tiling before, my husband is vehemently opposed. I think beyond some demo, we could handle painting and installing lights and a mirror.

As far as a mirror goes, with kids sharing a bath for the foreseeable future, I'd probably do a full plate glass mirror above the vanity so that more than one child can be using it at once and it would be easy to clean.

Do you really think your boys or guests will use that tub (most guests are not going to use a jetted tub in someone else's home and I don't think most boys after a certain age use them either) ? I think I'd be inclined to pull it out, put in a one piece shower pan and maybe even solid shower walls instead of tile.

The main reason to keep the current tub is because it's already there. Sounds simple, but we don't feel the need to tear something out that still does a fine job and functionally and aesthetically works for us. I could be convinced, but I'm not sure about my husband (the frugal and practical one!) With the ages of our boys, I think we have a good 5 more years (at least) of baths. We do have a master bath upstairs that has a large triangular jacuzzi, so we could use that....but we barely ever do. It takes forever to fill. Practically speaking, it would be doable. But it's not desirable for us. For guests, we really mostly just host our parents and they will definitely take showers.

Finally found photos! These are absolutely terrible phone pics, but they should help a bit. Apologies for the trash can and baby potty - real life, folks! First one is looking into the bathroom from the 2nd floor landing area. You can see the little plumbed area where we'd need to frame up in order to make it a shower. My husband's main concern is that we'll be blocking what little natural light comes in, which I understand, but short of completely tearing this whole space apart (which we honestly don't have the money for) I think it's the best option.

Doorway to a slightly odd closet. We mostly use that for storage for towels, cleaning supplies, soap, etc. It's pretty decent sized, but kind of a dark hole. If we could figure out a way to get a light in there, it would be nice, though not essential.

You can see the vanity on the left hand side across from the tub.

Looking back towards the door. There are an insane number of towel racks in this bathroom and about 100 little holes in the trim and woodwork. The window has SO many holes from various shades/curtains over the years, it looks awful. All of the wood in our house is original and unpainted, but this bathroom is probably the only place in our home I'd consider painting it white.

you know what-I like it..the plan is small but does make sense..and it's great to have this closet as odd as it is..i think you'll have to spend tons of money adding/re-configuring that plumbing while yes, loosing some light..

and yes-there's no way to know what you'll find in the walls

(we found a) asbestos that could be gotten rid off only by gutting all the walls b) no insulation whatsoever. it's a late sixties house. but my sis bought a Victorian, first decade of 1900 s...asbestos there too. only she, after seeing our experience, decided not to bother with it lol)

short of redoing everything...I think your sacrifices might be too big, for the advantage you'll get

is there any way to put a hand held shower high on the wall along the tub...add a shower curtain maybe..on the rod that comes off the ceiling, you know? not the tension rod? a pretty one that goes around? and then to redo the tiles/flooring only, cosmetic changes, etc?

I'm no pro of course and maybe things seem more difficult to me than they are or I'm missing some simple elegant decision..I'd be greatly interested in hearing what others have to say.

The existing tub appears to have a field applied tile flange on it to solve the leaking behind the wall issue. And I'll bet that it hasn't worked. They rarely do for very long. I'd bet that there is water damage behind the wall that needs to be addressed.

It also means that it is not practical to keep that tub. For a tub shower, you need a tub that has an integral tile flange. It's like doing a roof. Each layer of shingles has to overlap the layer below. The integral tile flange is the foundation to building a waterproof shower. If you want a shower there, you need a new tub that has an integral tile flange. You might be looking at $400 for the tub and another 1K to demo the existing tub and put the new one in. Separate from the plumber's fee to do the drain and valve work needed to make a tub shower work.

Linda - that's helpful, thank you. I have no idea what we will find when we get to work on this, but I would guess there might be a bit of water damage too. It doesn't LOOK like there's any right now, but there might be some hiding somewhere. It's an old house, so there's always something. Frankly, my husband would probably just like to stop at replacing the tile, but with what we've been through in this house with the other two bathrooms, I think getting this tub/shower to be functionally and practically appropriate for our family, it's worth doing the extra work to also ensure there's no hidden mold or anything like that. We worked with a contractor earlier this year on our first floor bathroom, which was the horrendous idea of a previous owner to tack on a 3/4 bath on the previously uninsulated back porch and not tell us that there are pipe heaters we have to turn on....you probably know where this is going...we had burst pipes, mold, and rotting wood hidden in there. Fun times. Our contractor was great. He got rid of the problem stuff, and we replaced the falling apart itty bitty shower. It does not look fancy or houzz-worthy at all, but he did the job and stayed in our budget to do it, even with the stupid stuff lingering behind the walls. The thing is, that bathroom we did not want to invest a lot in because someday, we will be getting rid of it in a kitchen remodel. But THIS bathroom will stay with us for the next 20 year and be used quite often, so it's worth it to have it done right, particularly the bath/tub area.

Do you guys thinking building up a wall to have a shower/tub combo is the way to go? Or something else? Any ideas for avoiding the shower area feeling like a cave? My husband suggested not building the wall all the way up to the ceiling. He also suggested the frosted glass wall blocks....though I'm not a huge fan of that style, but it could maybe work? Any other ideas?

I'm not super keen on the hanging shower curtain from the ceiling. I just don't like the look of it, and I have visions of water everywhere, which is what we're dealing with already with the current handshower.

Secondary question -- replacing toilets. Our toilet works fine. I have no idea how old it is. At what age/stage should we consider a toilet replacement? Can we replace the toilet at a later date and not cause issues with tiling??

I'm not objective-I dislike frosted glass wall blocks. Like, a lot..

What about building, say, three quarters of the wall ..or as high as needed for plumbing-and top it with a clear glass piece?..not reaching the ceiling?

I think colored glossy tiles might give a cheerful look, and divert attention to themselves rather than a structure itself, in a good way. As paradoxically as it might sound

But the look will be much more contemporary. And moldings are so cool and very traditional.

You can mix styles of course-but less so in the bathrooms with its expensive finished materials etc..bathrooms should look like integral parts of the house..Will it look like an integral part of the house?

Maybe drop the glass piece..just thinking out loud right now..but you'll still want a surround, right?

As a rule-You can change the toilet without damaging the tile any time you want.

I would love to do a tile shower/bath combo, but I'm not sure if it's in our budget. Kind of depends on what we decide. I figured a surround would be cheaper, but I suppose it depends on what tile or what surround. I'm sure there's options either way we go. I do want a slightly classic look for the bathroom - it's an old home, anything too modern will look out of place I think. What I'm struggling with most is colors. I love the look of white tile, but I just know it will look dirty constantly because we currently have off white tile, and it looks yucky most of the time, and with two kids, I am not about to mop the floors every day. It's just not happening - lol! I hesitate to go too dark because it's such a small space, though. Would it be weird to do a dark tile on the floors but white on the walls up to that molding, or would a white beadboard be a better idea?

Yeah, the glass idea isn't half bad, but it sounds a bit odd as well. I'm not sure....I obviously need to comb through some inspiration and find some place to start. I just want to make sure my idea of putting in a shower would actually work - it sounds like the consensus is that it's doable.

I would not do a shower/bath combo if your parents will be using the bath. As they age, it becomes harder to lift ones legs over a tub edge.

They would only use it when they come visit, and if that does become an issue (lifting legs and such), we have a walk in shower in two other bathrooms in our home. We do NOT have a shower/bath combo any other place in our home. It is very rare for homes in our town to NOT have a shower/bath combo, so I think we'd be foolish to get rid of it completely. And funny enough, my dad prefers taking baths anyways!

I'm resurrecting this thread from the dead because we are finally getting to the point where we are starting to make some plans. Which means, I'm back for a bit more input and advice! Thanks everyone for being patient.

In the last few months, we've decided that we're going to do a totally fresh start with this bathroom. New everything, but keep all fixtures where they are. Our budget is pretty flexible, however we are not going super high-end luxury because we are saving for a kitchen renovation in a few years that will be a much bigger project. I'm guessing if we can keep this to less than $10-15K we'd be happy, and less would mean more money for kitchen upgrades down the line, which honestly is more important to me!

We still are trying to figure out the BEST way to get a stand up tub/shower combo in here that doesn't create a cramped or cave like feel. That's my husband's biggest concern by far. A few ideas we have that I'd like feedback on (I have no idea if they are even doable, that's why I need input!):

- Keep the current little plumbing wall that we have, and put a frameless glass wall up (either to the ceiling or a foot or so below), then have the shower head attach to the glass wall such as these photos below. My concerns are that the little wall isn't high enough.

- Same general idea with the glass wall, but build up the plumbed wall a bit higher if necessary.

- Frame and build a wall for the shower plumbing where it currently is to about 1 ft below the ceiling, so we'd have more of an alcove type of shower/tub combo. This is the version that I think my husband is most hesitant about and feels it will cramp the space.

- Move the plumbing for the shower to the interior wall by the door, and do some sort of frameless glass on the other side

Thoughts?

Our second question is a more general question -- should we have any concerns about choosing smaller vs larger floor tile in terms of upkeep? Husband is concerned about all the grout for smaller tiles and that causing more issues in the future. We have an older house that seems to still "settle" so should that factor into tile choices? Are current tile is I think a 4x4 square and cracked all over. Not sure if that's from long term damage, age, shifting/settling or something else, but we'd like to not have to redo tile in 10 years!

It's been a little bit - any feedback on this? Or should I perhaps start a new post??

I would either move the shower plumbing to the opposite wall, if exterior you will need to insulate and lose six inches or so... Or do an alcove shower. I would never hang the plumbing on the glass.

I think you might have to accept that your hope of less 15 k is very unrealistic in a house your age for you will most likely need to spend a lot to bring the bath to code structurally, electrically and plumbing wise. Add fixtures, tiles waterproofing and labor after these other costs and you are well over 20 k . My shower glass was over 2 k alone. Tile install plus water proofing was closer to 8 k excluding the cost of the actual tiles, another 4k, plus vanity, fixtures, plumber and electrician. You should meet with architects or designing contractors to get estimates.

Roarah - thanks for your experience. Can I ask why you wouldn't hang plumbing on the glass?

The shower hand held bar only added on the glass will most likely be a budget buster. Your shower enclosure glass is tempered. Any holes in the glass would have had to be made prior to tempering at the factory. this not only costs a bundle more than already expensive custom glass but also locks you into your exact hardware and may cause problems down the road for replacements.

Why not build a full size plumbing wall where the pony tub wall is and have only the cost of the five ft of glass and Turn the linen closet on the left of shower to face the toilet you will not have to move your plumbing and you save thousands on not having pre drilled holes in tempered glass. Post your dimensions and window, door placement and we can work on plans that keep plumbing in place and add to your room without breaking the bank.

Like this but your storage and plumbing on the left side.

LOLing at the description of a full gut redo with plumbing changes in a home as old as that as a ''light'' remodel. Or "budget". It is neither. If you are not prepared to spend 15-20K here, you need to wait until you are. But not too long.You have mold remediation in your future.

Roarah - Thanks for that information about the glass and mounting. That's something I hadn't taken into consideration, so I agree with you on it being less than ideal in the long run now that I know that. Kind of a bummer, because it does look nice, but I see that there are some issues that it could present in the future.

With regards to the idea you mention about the linen closet, it's not a bad idea, however I know my husband's biggest concern is the space feeling more cramped than it already is. He is BIG on natural light and wanting it to feel as open as possible. That's why we were considering the glass to begin with. Our reasoning was that if we keep the plumbing at it's current location, that's cheaper than moving it. However, keeping the shower/tub plumbing at it's current location limits our options. Maintaining the light and open feel start to gets difficult if we build up that wall and move the linen closet as you've suggested. It's not a large bathroom, and it feels quite tunnel like already, so we both worry about repositioning the linen closet in the way you've shown since it would seem to add to that tunnel-like feel even more.

Sophie - No, our project isn't "light" any more! Lol! It was originally going to be, but our plans have evolved, which seems to often be the case with these kinds of things. However at the same time, when I see some of the projects on here that involve moving entire walls, windows, doors, toilets, and basically reorganizing the entire layouts of homes in order to renovate, plus utilizing luxury materials and finishes, our bathroom project seems smaller scale to me. We are keeping the vanity and toilet in the same location and maybe switching up the shower/tub plumbing. This is a guest and children's bathroom primarily, it's not a master bath, so we are not planning to go crazy high end with finishes and fixtures. It is also a small footprint. My hope is to keep things within $15K if possible. My husband has basically said he'll spend whatever it takes to get it all done right, but that doesn't mean I plan to go off the deep end.

Here's the layout, though these measurements and everything were done a LONG time ago. I need to go back and check them, but I do know the vanity is 36 inch and the door opens right up against it. The door to the linen closet, when opened, gets wedged up against the tub plumbing access. We can't move any of the walls at all, nor can we move the window. The linen closet is part of a small overhang able half of a bay window on the first floor, so we can't put any plumbing there. The one thing we could move if we had to, but we'd really rather not if possible, is the door to the bathroom. In theory, it could be anywhere along the wall it is currently located on. My main reason for NOT doing that is the headache it causes with all of the trim work outside of the bathroom on the landing on the 2nd floor. And just visually, it would look SUPER weird in that landing space to move the door...BUT both of those are not major setbacks. If someone came up with a stellar layout that required moving the door, we'd consider it.

Can you move the toilet stack into the closet area? Or leave everything but put shower and tub plumbing into opposite end of tub on the door wall. Change enterance door to swing out is also a cheap fix.

Just one point that I hadn't myself considered in my planning for reno of second bathroom. A friend who cleans houses says the glass is a major PITA, unless they now have some magical coating that I don't know about.

I can't do a shower at present because of a window, so looking for advice on quality handheld shower heads.

Good luck, it's a nice quirky space!

Roarah - No, we can't move the toilet stack there, unfortunately. There's no place for the plumbing to go because of the layout of the floor below (that closet is actually a small overhang over a bay window below). :(

My pet peeve is a cramped toilet area. Code is 15" from centerline to wall/fixtures while NKBA recommends 18". Yours looks much smaller and is probably contributing to the cramped feeling. But if you move the toilet a few inches towards the door, then it gets cramped in the other direction because it's closer to the tub.

Can you post the floor plan with surrounding rooms? I know you said you can only change the door--I'm just wondering if we might see other options that wouldn't be too drastic.

What is on the right side of the linen closet (right side as you look at your drawing here)? If a bedroom, any chance you can make that the closet for that bedroom, and then steal some space along the current tub wall? That would open up some possibilities.

(Moving non-load bearing walls is sometimes cheaper than moving plumbing around. Even if you have plaster walls - at least where I live (where 100 year old homes are common), plaster is no more expensive than drywall to put up).

Yeah, that's what I was hoping too! The linen closet makes the layout harder since you have to account for the door swing.

I'll try to get a sketch up of the entire second floor (note, it may not be accurate and to scale, but should give you an idea), but we really REALLY don't want to move any of the walls at all. The rooms on either side of the bathroom are bedrooms, and both are the larger bedrooms on that floor (and not very large, at that) so we don't want to take room from them. When I asked my husband about moving the door TO the bathroom, he was hesitant about that, so my guess is proposing moving walls will be a no-go for him. :(

caligirl - yeah, i hear ya on the toilet. Our house is over 100 years old, so pretty sure the standards for spacing wouldn't even be possible to accomplish in our tiny space. Lol! We are used to it, so it's really not a big deal for us. I'm not sure of exact measurements on either side of the toilet, but it's not too awful. It's not spacious, but it's not the worst. In comparison to many other homes in our little town, this is considered a large second bathroom! When we went house hunting 10 years ago, we really wanted to be close to the college my husband works at since it's a beautiful neighborhood, and that means older homes like ours. And about 90% of the ones we looked at had sub-optimal layouts for bathrooms or kitchen (and often both). As quirky and annoying as some of this is, it's actually a far step above some of the awful things we had as alternative options when we bought. There's basically 3 choices in our town - 100+ year old victorian with wonky renovations or bad layouts that need fixing, 1970s homes that are horribly dated and in less than desirable neighborhoods, or really overpriced brand new mcmansions. :-/ Or building new, I suppose.

Here's a 2nd floor layout. I'm going to be straight to the point: we really don't want to take on a massive project that changes the footprint and walls of our second floor in order to perfect our bathroom. If it was just me? Sure. I'm up for anything. But I know my husband well enough to know he hates change and he would never go for it. I have a hard enough time convincing him to paint a room, I can't imagine he could visualize, let alone approve, that kind of change. Lol!

Things that may be helpful to know about the rest of our house: we have a 3rd floor attic master bedroom with full bath (shower, jacuzzi tub, double sink, and walk in closet), and we have a first floor bath as well. Our main goal for THIS bathroom is wanting to update it and put in a stand up shower.

The one thing that I definitely think could help us is changing the door swing to the bathroom! We could have it open out instead of in.

The easiest, and cheapest two things to do are to make the pony wall full to house the plumbing for the diverter and shower head. Keeping that wall half open really does not make the room bigger and since it does not have a head shower because it is open it makes it function as an even smaller room.

The second is to out swing the door but that may not meet code cause it impedes the function of the bedroom egress...

if you are willing to spend more, the shower and tub plumbing can be moved to the hall wall and a glass enclosure can be added above the pony wall.

a hall bath mainly used by your kids and sometimes guest need not to be open and airy it needs to be functional. Yours will be with an added shower head. Keep the design as is. Make it water tight and pick beautiful finishes and call it a day. Those changes will not be inexpensive as it is so why break the bank with layout changes?

Here's an idea if you could close up the door to the linen closet in the bathroom and move it to the bedroom on the right. Footprint stays the same, though I realize this may still be too many changes. I think you'd have 33" width for the toilet and could fit 60" vanity.

Anyways, I totally get it if the economics don't make sense in your case, just wanted to throw out another option. People lived with that layout for 100 years, so you can make it work! Good luck!

In Cali's design the plumbing needs to go by the loo if you really cannot add plumbing in closet area. Also storage for linens and supplies can be squeezed in behind the door. Is there room to house the waste stack below the hall? You need about a 6 X 6 chase.

You asked a question a while back about smaller tile vs bigger tile on the floor. I know that generally people feel concerned about the amount of grout and the kind of maintenance it might require, but in my opinion the more grout lines there are, the less slippery the floor will be. In our kids' bathroom we're going with a mosaic tile for that reason. 10 years of experience with 12x12 matte tiles in our bathroom have led me to this conclusion.

Sweetncrunchy - that's SUPER helpful to know! We have large 12x12 tile in our master bath, and I think this bath that we want to remodel is a 4x4, but I can't remember.

Thanks everyone for all of the advice and input....and for your patience. We have a lot to figure out still :-/ I have a feeling we'll be sticking with the original footprint. We may be able to move the plumbing for the shower to the other wall, and I think that would help a bit.