Low-profile/shallow gas fireplace where pot-belly was in 1908 house?
M Young
7 years ago
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lazy_gardens
7 years agoRelated Discussions
Gas hookup, HELP!!!
Comments (17)Won't find that 'code' requirement for pipes to be in sleeves under streets or throroughfares in my state either. --------------- That said, whether the owner pays for the upgrades and piping necessary to serve the gas requirements of the dwelling, or whether the gas company pays, will often be determined by the calculated gas demand and whether or not the gas company can sufficiently recover its investment in a resonably short period of time. If when building an all gas home, for example, the gas utility will likely determine that despite the cost to them for the initial hookup, the payback in gas purchases over the life of the structure is more than enough to not charge any installation fee for the gas service. If, however, one has an existing all electric home, but wants to convert to gas just to run a back-up gas generator in the event of a power failure, the utility will likely want to charge the customer the full costs associated with installing the new gas service because there is little chance the company will ever recover their that investment. So it really depends on how much demand one will have that ultimately determines whether or not the utility charges for the service hook-up. ------------ It can also depend upon where the meter is located. Typically, the utility is responsible only for the gas lines up to the meter. Where metering is done at the street in a curb box, the cost to the utility to connect gas service can be negligible. But where metering is done at the dwelling (as it is in my state), the costs to the company for initial installation can be considerable...especially if the dwelling is many hundreds of feet from the street or they encounter things like bedrock. ----------- Bottom line: It is not unusual for the gas utility to charge for installations...especially when gas demand will be low or distances to connect are long or difficult to achieve....See MoreInduction Cooktop: Why GE Profile over Kenmore Elite?
Comments (22)If the induction cooktop vents underneath the counter as the Cooktek does, and the GE above appears to do, but the Electrolux and Kenmore don't, then more space is needed to allow air to circulate without getting too hot and potentially harming the electronics or causing the electronics to self protect by cutting power. The other issue is chassis construction and what UL might demand for spacing from combustibles. My guess (while awaiting word from the GE engineer response noted above) is that there may be a fear that electronics failures of certain types could cause hot spots or melt-throughs in the bottom cover, or sparks from the vent slots. An arc current below the 50A breaker limit might cause some serious metal erosion before it burned out. My choice was to use wire pull-out drawers and store pots and pans in that space. kas...See Morenew? ge phs920sfss profile slide-in induction
Comments (74)I understand why you asked this question here but you might still want to consider starting a new thread so your question does not get overlooked by others who can help you. But, to take a shot at it, the GE PHS920 slide-in induction range may be a "better option" for you than the gas-slide-in that is in your plans. Maybe not for the reasons on which you might have focused. I'm keying on the comment about "getting scared." First thing is that OTRs above a gas range are not "scary." There just are much more effective means of collecting and removing vapors and venting-out waste heat. As long as OTRs are vented to the extrerior (instead of recirculating), they are better than nothing and can be "adequate." If you do a search here on OTRs, you'll find several threads from the last couple of years discussing OTRs over gas ranges and including discussions (and pictures) of using them over pro-style ranges. Second, the thing that makes OTRs less effective is "coverage area." Most of them only cover the back half of the stove, so they do not do a good job of collecting vapors etc. from pots on the front burners. This is just as much a problem with induction as it is with gas burners. If you can manage it, a "proper" hood "should" be at least as deep as the stove and 3-inches wider to each side with the fan intake(s) positioned to efficiently draw what the hood captures. As kaseki has so often pointed out here, the more your vent relies on the fan(s) instead of a canopy for collection of vapors, the less effective it will be as a venting appliance. Many of us have had to make compromises on effectiveness in order to fit or retrofit some venting into our kitchens. So, some wind up with narrower hoods that are 22" deep. Others have to get shallower hoods. Some of us can fit only shallow-hoods with flat bases rather than canopies. Still others have to resort to OTR units. But, some venting is better than none. If you needed confirmation of this seemingly obvious point, there were some threads here from a year ago which discussed a study on kitchen venting carried out at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories and funded by the Dept. of Energy and the EPA. (I'd give you the links but cannot find them at the moment.) Third, you can mitigate the OTR compromises a bit if you select an OTR with a slide-out vent extension. These have a slide-out vent-tray that extends some fan pick-up intakes out closer to the front of the stove and increases the capture area somewhat. The kinds of OTRs ave also been discussed in several threads here over the last couple of years. (You may already have seen these, so forgive me for mentioning them id you have.) I think LG makes a couple of models like this and there may be more from other companies. Fourth, when people have said "scary" about this topic in past threads, they often have been laboring under the mis-impression that running a gas stove without a vent is a fire hazard and that an OTR, with its limited effectiveness, might somehow be a code violation. Going without a vent -- in a home with residential stoves rather than commercial equipment --- is not a fire hazard -- at least it is not as long as you heed the cabinet spacing and wall surface specifications in you stove's installation instructions. Same thing with OTRs. Firth, when it comes to dealing with waste heat, venting is mainly a matter of comfort with gas ranges. Something like 60% (and more) of the heat from the burners can be going around the pans on the stove top and, because gas ovens vent more than electric ovens, a lot more heat can come into the kitchen from the oven vent than with an electric oven. A well-functioning range hood can draw a fair amount of that heat out and help keep the kitchen more comfortable. An OTR does some of this, too, just a whole lot less. Sixth, that brings us to induction ranges like the PHS920 producing far less waste heat than gas ranges, which can be a very real and very big advantage for many people. Basically, 84% (or more) of the energy from an induction burner goes into a pan. With gas, it is more like 33% to maybe 40% (depending on a lot of variables). Also, as mentioned above, gas ovens pump more heat into your kitchen than an electric oven will. So, if you live in a warm-to-hot climate or a place with long hot summers, induction will have an obvious two-fold advantage. The stove-top produces less waste heat and the vent does not need to suck as much conditioned air to maintain comfort around the stove. Seventh, in theory, the extra heat from a gas range could cause more wear and tear on the OTR's MW and cause it to fail sooner than it might when run over an induction range like the PHS920. While I've seen posts expressing that fear as well as posts complaining about how much of a pain it can be to replace OTRs that fail, I haven't seen any data about actual relative failure rates. Consumer Reports used to have annual membership survey data showing that OTRs had slightly higher reported failure rates for the first five years of ownership but now, with countertop MWs being basically commodity products from very few manufacturers (notwithstanding the plethora of brands), the annual survey no longer asks about countertop MWs. For OTRs, most brands run about 6% to 8% defects and failures in the first five years, Kitchenaid and LG run around 10% and Samsung is the outlier with a 16% problem rate on its OTRs in the first five years of ownership. Unfortunately, CR's survey does not ask about the kind of range the OTR is placed above. Also, a further caveat, the amount of heat going to the OTR is highly variable between houses and cooking styles. At this point, about all that can be said is that there is a potential that extra heat from gas stoves could shorten the life of an OTR but no data on how significant that is. So, to sum up on "waste heat," a PHS920 range could very well be "a better option" for you with an OTR. Eighth, gas ranges produce combustion by-products. Now, I say that, and the paranoid immediately panic and chatter about carbon monoxide (CO). But that's a distraction. CO is not a problem with modern gas ranges unless somebody has deliberately put the burners way out of adjustment or leaves them running without a flame. A range hood really won't help with either of those problems. Realistically, the problem is more subtle -- it is aerosolized grease, ozone, NO, CO2 and a few other combustion related compounds. Without good venting, this stuff will coat kitchen surfaces more quickly than happens with induction. That, in turn, means more frequent need to scrub surfaces. Also, unvented gas cooktops and ranges can have subtle long term health effects --- which will be adverse in the short term if you have chemical sensitivities, in which case you shouldn't consider gas appliances, at all. While induction obviously does not put combustion by-products into your kitchen (the combustion happens at the power plant where those things may be more readily contained), cooking on induction won't result in less aerosolized particulates. Even so, the relative lack of waste heat means that they don't disperse as readily as they do with a gas stove. That, in turn, makes for more ready capture by venting, even OTRs, So, this is another item that can make induction a "better option" for you with an OTR. Ninth, I gather that the upcoming versions of the International Residential Code (IRC) may be requiring kitchen venting. I've read in some posts here that a few jurisdictions have already adopted their own requirements in advance of those regulations. (I'm not talking about the existing make-up-air (MUA) requirements which only apply if you install ventilation over a certain CFM capacity -- I'm talking about requirements to install venting in the kitchen). You might want to check if your locality has any such new requirements and whether they make any distinctions between types of stoves and cooktops. Tenth, I've learned over the years here that some people think recirculating OTRs are the same as venting them to the outside. Since you said you've been researching them, I am assuming you know the difference. For anybody who reads this thread later and doesn't know the difference, recirculating range hoods and OTRs are almost all next to useless. The authors of that Lawrence Livermore report on venting called recirculators "forehead greasers." Finally, with the cabinets ordered for your remodel, I'm not sure what options have, but most of us would strongly recommend putting a canopy hood in place of that OTR, if you can, and put a regular microwave on a shelf or cart somewhere else, and do this regardless of whether you get your gas slide-in or go with an induction slide-in like the PHS920. P.S. Have you seen the current thread on whether induction needs a less powerful hood? If not, check out the last post in that thread which is by Kaseki. This post was edited by JWVideo on Tue, Apr 8, 14 at 14:04...See MoreGE Profile Induction -- First Impressions
Comments (16)We've had our 36" 5-burner GE Profile induction cooktop for about 2 months now, and I LOVE it for all of the reasons mentioned above. Two things anyone might want to consider when deciding on which induction to buy: 1. SERVICE--DH didn't get around to installing the hood until AFTER the cooktop had been installed. He dropped his hammer on it from a height of 2' and cracked the glass. Yes, I was angry, especially since I knew he was tired and I'd tried to get him to stop before he made any mistakes! But he called GE, the repair guy called us immediately, and ordered any parts he thought might have been damaged (the control panel was right under the glass where the hammer hit). He had them FedEx/UPSed to us, and told us to call him when they arrived. We did, and he came the SAME day and did the repair. The control box had not been damaged, so he returned it. 2. SS RIM--If you've ever had something boil over, having the stainless steel rim instead of only the smooth black surface will keep most things from overflowing onto the counter or floor. I can't count the number of times I've cooked rice and had a considerable amount of water boil over--including yesterday. :o) I'd forgotten I'd put it on power boost (do NOT leave the cooktop while this is on), and walked to the other side of the kitchen to get something. Over it went out of the pot, but it stayed within the boundaries of the cooktop because of the SS rim, although the mess spread over three burners. Easy to fix. Turned it down so it stopped overflowing immediately, picked up the pans on the three burners and wiped them and the cooktop off, and was back in business in a couple of minutes with the rice simmering away at the perfect temperature. No matter what I've cooked, there's been a perfect simmer point. The placement of the different sized burners also works well for me. Soon the real test will come, when DH and DS both stir fry on the two front burners. There's room for the 14" stir fry pan, the 12" extra deep 6 qt saute pan, and the 13" French skillet in the back on Low to keep things warm. I LOVE this cooktop!!! I also love my new pots and pans. Up until we got the induction cooktop, I'd cooked for decades using a few not-so-good ones. While researching pans, I ran across explanations of what each kind of pan can be used for, which were helpful in making choices from the many AllClad options. I ended up getting the Kitchen Aid pans recommended by Consumers Report (partly because I like glass lids), and several larger AllClad pieces from Williams-Sonoma that were a lower price in their catalog as well as some that went on sale in their store after Christmas. I also got some from the AllClad outlet in PA via the internet. Several of the W-S prices were cheaper than the outlet! I'd looked over the pans in the reduced price collections of the various stores, but had determined that most of the ones I wanted were not included in those offers. Although the AllClad is expensive, I especially love cooking with their large pans. Anne...See MoreM Young
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agograywings123
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