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O/T... best wishes for Tuesday...

User
5 years ago

...I trust rosarians will pick the right one.... with Brexit going on here I can't take another boat rocking right now...

...I don't envy you the choice though, as I think they're both too old for this day and age with what we are all up against in this world... a job for the under 65's... one appears to be physically not too good, and the other... well.... hmmm..

...good luck - we need it...

Comments (524)

  • Hans
    5 years ago

    I planned on a visit to the US this summer. I changed my mind for the same reason I don't visit any country where democracy is under pressure and makes me feel uncomfortable.

  • Kelly Tregaskis Collova
    5 years ago

    I am ashamed, embarrassed and upset. Our rights are being stripped away...

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  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    5 years ago

    Feeling sick. In the Seattle airport having flown in from a wedding in Sun Valley , Idaho. On the way home. Wonderful large protest in the Boise airport including singing and rainbow variety of people.

  • reesepbuttercup SLC, Utah 6b
    5 years ago

    Rights being stripped away....that's a bit dramatic don't you think? What rights, as a US citizen, have you lost?

  • reesepbuttercup SLC, Utah 6b
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The funding of abortions isn't a right.

  • Dara McKay
    5 years ago

    Control over one's body is a right, a basic right.

    I saw eight old men in the oval office circled around while one signed away a basic women's right. Think you'd ever see eight old women circled around while one signed away a basic right for men?

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    What Trump is doing regarding this horrible immigration debacle is against the law. A judge ruled that this should be stopped, but it is still going on. People with green cards were being deported. Does that not worry you? A racist like Bannon with no political experience and a record of alt-right crazy ideas being in the inner circle while high-level national security personnel were shunted to the side is not worrisome? When exactly do we begin to worry? Something new is being signed away practically every day, losing national lands, EPA becoming a sham, a secretary of education who is a joke, practically every cabinet member being a horrible mistake in most intelligent people's eyes, the pipeline being reinstated, Trump being hand in hand with Putin, and on and on. It's an erosion of everything good that has been built up or it's been simply thrown out the window. I wasn't going to comment again on this post, but frankly I've gone from being worried to scared and from scared to almost terrified. Furthermore, a large part of the world feels the same way. The writing is on the wall for those who know how to read.

  • erasmus_gw
    5 years ago

    Most likely they will fine tune this and the green card holders and citizens' rights will be protected. I don't have the facts about it.

    This is from an article by Daniel Sobieski on American Thinker from a Jan. 30 article :

    "Critics insist on describing the refugee ban as a “Muslim ban”. In truth, it is a geographic ban. So how were the seven countries Trump suspended immigration from selected? They were selected based on a law President Obama himself signed.

    According to the draft copy of Trump's executive order, the countries whose citizens are barred entirely from entering the United States is based on a bill that Obama signed into law in December 2015.

    Obama signed the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act as part of an omnibus spending bill. The legislation restricted access to the Visa Waiver Program, which allows citizens from 38 countries who are visiting the United States for less than 90 days to enter without a visa.

    Though outside groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union and NIAC Action -- the sister organization of the National Iranian American Council -- opposed the act, the bipartisan bill passed through Congress with little pushback.

    At the initial signing of the restrictions, foreigners who would normally be deemed eligible for a visa waiver were denied if they had visited Iran, Syria, Sudan or Iraq in the past five years or held dual citizenship from one of those countries.

    In February 2016, the Obama administration added Libya, Somali and Yemen to the list of countries one could not have visited -- but allowed dual citizens of those countries who had not traveled there access to the Visa Waiver Program. Dual citizens of Syria, Sudan, Iraq and Iran are still ineligible, however.

    Critics also forget how the Obama administration stopped processing refugees from Iraq for six month in 2011. Was that a ban on Muslim immigration?"




    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/01/extreme_fretting_over_refugee_ban.html#ixzz4XHSdktWi
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    5 years ago

    erasmus, I'm not arguing about any specific points you've made, but please keep in mind that The American Thinker is a very right wing and conservative publication, and you might want to also take a look at other news media that are not so obviously bending to the right. The way this was done, for one, created a horrible mess and much suffering for the people who were already on their way here. It was a very inhumane thing to do. No other agencies were consulted before this decision, and you can be sure that was not the case with Obama.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    5 years ago

    The glaring difference between what Obama did and what Trump did is that Obama paused granting refugee passage to individuals not holding visas, whereas Trump denied entry to individuals already holding visas.


    :-)


    ~Christopher

  • erasmus_gw
    5 years ago

    You are probably right that I should check out a greater variety of opinion sites, but left leaning media has revealed a lot of bias, collusion with the Democrat party, and obvious contempt and intolerance towards the right so it is not exactly inviting as a place to get information. I hear it whether I want to or not anyway. Do you often check out right wing sites?

    I don't like the hostile climate and wish we could do better as a country. I get the sense that there are puppet masters engineering the escalating hatred. People who are happy to see us in complete melt down. Countries don't last that are that torn apart.

    One thing I read about the abruptness of Trump's executive order was that if he gave some notice the bad guys would rush on in to beat the deadline. From what I read today all the people detained in airports have been released. It is not a wonderful thing to have to vet people like this, but what do you want? What kind of steps do you think are ok to protect our country?

    Christopher I doubt that Trump's order was ONLY to deny entry to people with visas but they were included I guess. I think there is another point in that article I quoted which is that the same regions of the world constituted Obama's " pause" on immigration. If you want to apply the same standards of criticism you might have to call that a Muslim ban just because of the locales. There is nothing in Trump's order that singled out the religion. It was the same places Obama had concerns about. You refer to Obama's " pause" on immigration but describe Trump as denying entry. Trump says it's a 90 day ban. It's also a pause.








  • erasmus_gw
    5 years ago

    Here's a chart of executive orders of past presidents. Some revered presidents did a lot of executive orders! It didn't prove they were dictators. Some executive orders are more tyrannical than others. I am not attempting to do comparisons now. But you have to remember that Obama was pretty gleeful , it seemed, with his pen and phone. Did we riot? No. He said , " Elections have consequences...I won." That was ok for him to say somehow.


  • erasmus_gw
    5 years ago

    The chart wouldn't copy so here's a link if you want to see a presidential executive orders chart. I'm not saying I'm a big fan of executive orders.. I like the checks and balances we're supposed to have. https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/every-presidents-executive-actions-in-one-chart/

  • erasmus_gw
    5 years ago

    Trospero, I would like it if you would not assume that Trump voters are all the same or that we're incapable of criticising him. No I don't think taking people's green cards away was ok. I think we'll hear more from them on that.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    5 years ago

    I like to think the TT supporters are only one eighth of the electorate. Of course that is like saying the other eighth only voted for him because they were uninformed, and it does all go back to how long they can close their eyes intentionally.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Actually, since Trump explicitly provided exceptions to Christian individuals from those countries, it kinda does single out Muslims. As to "Obama's pause on immigration", please understand that this was only directed at granting refugee waivers for people without visas. It did nothing to people with visas. Basically, after receiving intel, he decided that they'd stop honoring new requests until better vetting was possible. What Trump did was clumsily halt all travel from those countries -- with exceptions for Christians. People with documentation to be here were literally stopped at the airport. This was not the same as temporarily closing the door to unvetted refugees.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    5 years ago

    I understand that many people who voted for Trump merely wanted "outsider change", but be prepared for more disastrous blunders. While simple "common sense" solutions appeal to the masses, they ignore the tangled web of relationships and dependencies that exist, and fail to anticipate unintended consequences. At some point, this "bull in a china shop" approach will result in his impeachment or resignation. The question is "how much will the damage bill be?" until then.


    :-/


    ~Christopher

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    5 years ago

    And......Trump just fired the Attorney General. Get your popcorn ready.


    :-/


    ~Christopher

  • User
    5 years ago

    "I don't like the hostile climate and wish we could do better as a
    country. I get the sense that there are puppet masters engineering the
    escalating hatred. People who are happy to see us in complete melt
    down. Countries don't last that are that torn apart." Now, IMO, if I were a "puppet master",striving to get the USA into a state of melt-down, I would not bother trying to "engineer" a lot of protests; far too complicated! The simplest way to accomplish such a goal would be simply to have hackers intervene in the presidential election...which is exactly what happened!

    Christopher, I always enjoy your posts. I see that you are as clear-headed about the political situation as you are about gardening. It's a pleasure to have you on the forum.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    5 years ago

    Please note that the following is an opinion piece. I'm posting it here as "food for thought". And maybe a warning. Hopefully not a prediction.


    the-immigration-ban-is-a-headfake-and-were-falling-for-it-b8910e78f0c5


    :-/


    ~Christopher

  • erasmus_gw
    5 years ago

    I know it's futile to argue about this stuff. I believe leftists are utterly convinced they're the only good people and all the Trump voters are awful. It's awful to have borders, we should be one world, everyone should be welcome here. If it's immoral to draw any lines and say no to anyone then the very idea of borders is immoral , right? All the people trying to get by on their paycheck should hand over an even bigger percentage of it to support the rest of the world. How mean if they want to simply make it or prosper. Healthcare should be free for the poor but out of reach for struggling Americans. Leftists criticize freely but try to shut up criticism from the right by calling them bad people. I am not going to argue with anyone who has such certainty they're never wrong, who habitually locates all fault outside of themselves. Whose solutions forcibly take money other people worked for. Who uses the disadvantaged to try to triumph politically, while leftist policies hurt those very people.

    Bart, I think there is some evidence that Soros actually pays people to go to demonstrations and wreak havoc. Professional agitators. Paid thugs. I heard that someone paid people to go to Trump rallies and incite violence, then blamed the people going to the rallies. Was it Hillary's campaign? If you've got a strong stance and your ideas are based in goodness you don't need to use violence and especially to blame others for it. You rail against injustice but don't see your own.

    The unintended consequences are a fact of life for any human being , this fallibility isn't owned by the right. Obama made an awful mess...I don't know if it was intentional or not. It'll take a long time to recover if we ever do.

    As far as hacks in the election go, what was revealed was Democrat corruption. The truth may have influenced the election. Utter incompetence or willful disregard about security was revealed on the Democrat side. I think the main stream media has been hacking the election for many years...pretending to be objective, misleading the country, utterly in service of one side. Stirring up hatred based on lies and half truths. Blood is on their hands and blood is on Obama's hands, far more people than those 105 people detained for a short time in airports.

    Signing off again.

  • portlandmysteryrose
    5 years ago

    Thank you for the link, Christopher. I have been harboring similar concerns. My head is spinning as I try to keep all the various political fronts/agendas on my radar. A lot of research is involved, and political threads run in so many directions. I have the impression that ALL voters and non voters are in for more hardship as time passes. I hope it is otherwise. Carol

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    erasmus_gw, you do realize you're painting "all leftists" with a rather broad brush, and at the same time asking that we don't characterize all Trump voters as being racist or otherwise "deplorable"....

    Don't let the divisive forces paint you into a false dichotomy corner -- the views out there are not either-or, black-or-white, but rather are all sorts of shades in between. As a self-proclaimed "leftist" -- of the Bill Maher subtype -- I will step up and criticize the left when something doesn't sit well with me. I don't follow "my team" no matter what, and that included how the Democratic primaries went down. But I find myself agreeing with the left far more often than I agree with the right, so I adopt their tag as a general identifier.

    As far as that idea of the left paying people to cause disruptions at Trump rallies, please see this Snopes article and watch Tucker Carlson expose a fake anti-Trump protester on FoxNews. Unfortunately, once stories like this get out there, they are kept alive by those who believe them without investigating further, and by those who would benefit from people believing them to be true. Confirmation bias is something to which we are all prone if we're not careful.

    I try to look at things in 3D, rather than respond linearly, since linear responses are often anticipated and manipulated. Politics is a chess game -- don't let them trick you into thinking it's just checkers.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    That was an excellent piece - thank you Christopher.

    I think the writer made an important distinction between the more obviously viscerally disturbing actions of the present Administration, like the sudden so-called 'Muslim ban' on thousands of innocent travellers, and those that appear to directly hit at fundamentals of America's democratic system of government, like the sacking of the head of the Justice Dept for having a different opinion from the President.

    If this does turn out to be part of a deliberate attempt to divest the system of its inbuilt checks and balances in order to give Mr Trump and his close friends free reign to exercise absolute power, it will be no exaggeration to observe that you guys are well on the way to a new era of fascist government.

    Just because you have yet to see silly moustaches (OK silly hairstyles, yes), jackbooted 'security' squads forcing people of certain races and religions deemed a threat to the nation from their homes and businesses, and tanks on the streets, doesn't mean this is not an extremely dangerous direction your country may be sliding in, seemingly without half the people even noticing, or caring.

  • User
    5 years ago

    Once again ,chapeau, Christopher. @ trospero: I agree that there is something very fishy going on with Trump and the Trumpettes. Frankly, he just does not seem intelligent enough to have an "actual agenda" himself, though I do feel that a "smoke and mirrors " tactic is somehow being used. The idea of Trump as "Putin's Puppet"does stink of "conspiracy theory",yet I can't get away from the reality that is unfolding in front of us. This person (D;Rump) has been in office for a little over ten days, and yet has managed to create tension between the USA and Europe, China, The Vatican; and last but certainly not least, Mexico. Now, Mexico is stuck right there next to the southern half of the USA; if you deliberately foment tension with your closest neighbour,what good can possibly come from it? It's not like the USA and Mexico have a history of easy relations on which to fall back...Then, insults to Europe, to the United Nations; this guy seems to be deliberately trying to sabotage the USA in it's context as a world power.So the tension is clearly NOT just within the USA. It's NOT about Democrats vs. Rebubblicans.

    And let us look at the women, as well. Melania poses for a magazine, rolling a "diamond" necklace on a fork ; the image speaks for itself; she is so rich she can eat diamonds as if they were spaghetti. Then there's the daughter, Ivanka, appearing in a show-off photo in gala dress (shiny silver, like the thermo-covers that are given to save refugees,nota bene),her DH's hand on her ass.I am sorry, but how can one ignore such blantant bad taste ? It just doesn't seem realistic that all this is mere accident; it seems like deliberate provocation.You don't DO that ! Look at Kate Middleton. I'm not particularly a fan of the royals, but that lass really does have taste and class (in hard economic times, you do not flaunt yourself as a nouveau zarina, who eats diamonds; you "recycle" your state outfits,any one of which costs more that what an average person could afford, perhaps,but at least you are not flaunting) This is only one small reason why Ms. Middleton has managed to make herself beloved by "the people".Politics and power are also about human relations,good taste, a sense of what is appropriate, and DRump and company seem to be deliberately trying to sabotage the USA on every single level. I am sorry for the gullible people that voted for him; I see them as victims.

  • Jasminerose, California, USDA 9b/Sunset 18
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Something someone pointed out to me today: The Muslim ban excludes countries linked to his business interests. Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. However, Saudi Arabia was spared from the ban. Trump has hotel interests there and has refused to create a blind trust. Such a conflict of interest and unconstitutional. See nydailynews.com

  • kittymoonbeam
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I worry most of all about the great anger that has gone on and continues. I keep hoping for a unifying leader. We need to work on solutions that everyone is in agreement on. Jobs and rebuilding the aging parts of the nation. Get control of healthcare and drug prices. Find ways to get kids through school so they aren't loaded with debt and can't start families. The basic stuff.

    The two party situation leaves us with hardly a choice. This or that. What about this and that and that over there and that fantastic idea over there. The crooked machine needs to go.

    Please come out for the March for Science. On social media sites gathering steam. If we lose the planet, it won't matter who you voted for.

  • kittymoonbeam
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    More about the march for science

    Please find a group and get involved in your area. This will be YUUUGE all over the world.



    You don't need to be flashy. Just come out and get inspired and lets be heard all across the country and the world. Let the media and politicians know that we are serious now and demand action. No date set yet but soon I think. This will NOT be a partisan event as directed by the founders of the march. Everyone is welcome.

  • frances_in_nj
    5 years ago

    I wasn't going to post to this thread any more, as I really have to watch my blood pressure and save my energy for places where it has a good chance of making a difference. But I must second kitty's post - we have to show up! Show up for the march for science! We have to stand up for the truth, for real as opposed to "alternative" facts! I was at the march on Jan. 21st, and it was inspiring - peaceful and powerful - and though I don't know if it made any difference, I do know that it got under Trump's skin - it sent a message that he can't deny, though he tries to with the lies about how many were at the inauguration. (One of my favorite signs at the march: "So bad, even the introverts are showing up" - that's me!!) To paraphrase Rebecca Solnit in "Hope in the Dark": we have to show up for what we believe in, even if there's no guarantee it makes a difference - because you never know: your actions may have good effects that you can't possibly know.

    Trospero, thanks for pointing out the horrifying fact of the appointment of Falwell to the education task force (I couldn't quite bring myself to "like" it, lol, but I wanted you to know I appreciated it) - it just gets worse and worse. To me, this ban of green card/visa holders, as well as vulnerable refugees who may very well die because of it, is unbelievably evil, not to mention idiotic. The odds of being harmed in a terrorist incident (any form of terrorism) in the USA are, according to the National Safety Council and the National Center for Health Statistics, 1 in 45,808 (they break it down further for refugee terrorists - its 1 in 46,192,893); the odds of being killed in a car accident are 1 in 113: yet we become hysterical about people from certain countries while blithely hopping into cars all the time. But rational thought and the facts that support it clearly have no place here. I feel a bit like we are in free-fall, what with this and the firing of AG Yates ...

  • frances_in_nj
    5 years ago

    I wasn't going to post to this thread any more, as I really have to watch my blood pressure and save my energy for places where it has a good chance of making a difference. But I must second kitty's post - we have to show up! Show up for the march for science! We have to stand up for the truth, for real as opposed to "alternative" facts! I was at the march on Jan. 21st, and it was inspiring - peaceful and powerful - and though I don't know if it made any difference, I do know that it got under Trump's skin - it sent a message that he can't deny, though he tries to with the lies about how many were at the inauguration. (One of my favorite signs at the march: "So bad, even the introverts are showing up" - that's me!!) To paraphrase Rebecca Solnit in "Hope in the Dark": we have to show up for what we believe in, even if there's no guarantee it makes a difference - because you never know: your actions may have good effects that you can't possibly know.

    Trospero, thanks for pointing out the horrifying fact of the appointment of Falwell to the education task force (I couldn't quite bring myself to "like" it, lol, but I wanted you to know I appreciated it) - it just gets worse and worse. To me, this ban of green card/visa holders, as well as vulnerable refugees who may very well die because of it, is unbelievably evil, not to mention idiotic. The odds of being harmed in a terrorist incident (any form of terrorism) in the USA are, according to the National Safety Council and the National Center for Health Statistics, 1 in 45,808 (they break it down further for refugee terrorists - its 1 in 46,192,893); the odds of being killed in a car accident are 1 in 113: yet we become hysterical about people from certain countries while blithely hopping into cars all the time. But rational thought and the facts that support it clearly have no place here. I feel a bit like we are in free-fall, what with this and the firing of AG Yates ...

  • portlandmysteryrose
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I caught the Lenin statement in the news, too, Trospero. Until now, the only voices I've heard aligning themselves with Lenin are those of my angry, abused at-risk youth students who have few coping skills and see aggression as their only social and political tool. Lenin was an intelligent, self-aggrandizing, and clever political strategist and manipulator. And he was a sociopath and a butcher. His vision is not where I wish any nation to go. As friends from the former Yugoslavia attest, a violently imploding nation suffers in ways that never heal.

    Kitty's post is a good direction. A nation unified in a globally shared danger and need is one that is more difficult to divide with words of hate and destruction. If the planet goes down, we'll find out through tragedy just how human and just how interconnected we all are. I'll think of you and Kitty while I'm marching in OR, Frances.

    Carol

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    5 years ago

    Marianne, that's a great article, fun to read, down to earth and very helpful.


  • User
    5 years ago

    I think the Pope qualifies as an authority as to what is Christian behaviour and what is not.


    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/10/13/pope-francis-you-cant-defend-christianity-by-being-against-refugees-and-other-religions/


    That's the address, but since I'm not sure I did it correctly to make it "link",here's the whole article. Short, simple, and crystal clear.


    Pope Francis: You can’t defend Christianity by being ‘against refugees and other religions’


    The Pope told pilgrims that the sin Jesus condemns most is hypocrisy

    Meeting a pilgrimage of Catholics and Lutherans from Germany, Pope
    Francis said he does not like “the contradiction of those who want to
    defend Christianity in the West, and, on the other hand, are against
    refugees and other religions.”

    “This is not something I’ve read in books, but I see in the newspapers and on television every day,” Pope Francis said.

    Answering questions from young people in the group this morning, the
    pope said, “the sickness or, you can say the sin, that Jesus condemns
    most is hypocrisy,” which is precisely what is happening when someone
    claims to be a Christian but does not live according to the teaching of
    Christ.

    “You cannot be a Christian without living like a Christian,” he said.
    “You cannot be a Christian without practicing the Beatitudes. You
    cannot be a Christian without doing what Jesus teaches us in Matthew
    25.” This is a reference to Christ’s injunction to help the needy by
    such works of mercy as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and
    welcoming the stranger.

    “It’s hypocrisy to call yourself a Christian and chase away a refugee
    or someone seeking help, someone who is hungry or thirsty, toss out
    someone who is in need of my help,” he said. “If I say I am Christian,
    but do these things, I’m a hypocrite.”

    Asked what he thought of the Reformation, Pope Francis said the
    Christian community is called to continual growth and maturity, and its
    entire history has been marked by reform movements “small and not so
    small,” some of which were healthy and holy, others which went awry
    because of human sin.

    “The greatest reformers of the church are the saints, those men and
    women who follow the word of God and practice it,” he told the pilgrims,
    most of whom came from Martin Luther’s home region of Saxony-Anhalt.

    In his formal talk to the group, Pope Francis said Christians must
    praise God that, in the past 50 years, Catholics and Lutherans have
    moved “from conflict to communion. We already have traveled an important
    part of the road together.”

    Noting that he would go to Lund, Sweden, at the end of the month to
    participate with Lutheran leaders in opening commemorations of the 500th
    anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, Pope Francis said an
    important part of the commemoration would be a joint commitment to
    working together in a world “thirsting for God and his mercy.”

    The world needs Christians to witness God’s mercy “through service to
    the poorest, the sick (and) those who have abandoned their homelands in
    search of a better future for themselves and their families,” he said.

    “In putting ourselves at the service of the neediest,” Pope Francis
    said, “we will experience that we already are united; it is God’s mercy
    that unites us.”



  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    5 years ago

    I am very proud of the Pope.

  • kittymoonbeam
    5 years ago

    I applaud you all for your thoughtful discussion. Most other places are very rough. Blaming, shaming, name calling. Even where there is a general agreement, liberal or conservative, or just plain bewildered, the comments are mostly not civil. Thank you all for your reasonable discourse. Plant people are the best!

  • Ken (N.E.GA.mts) 7a/b
    5 years ago

    First up, I'm an "Independent". I could care less about political parties. I vote for whom I want to vote for.

    I've spent some time reading and rereading this post. I've come to the conclusion that everyone is right and everyone is wrong.. It really makes a lot of sense. The one thing I have noticed about the two political parties that shape American politics. The Republicans seem to keep quiet and make their voices heard at the elections. The Democrats cause a lot of civil unrest and can not handle loosing anything. The better part of the Republicans aren't as "educated" as the major part of the Democrats. But the biggest problem for the Democrats is their inability to use their education for anything positive. Where do they hold their march's and protest's. Right in the cities that THEY control. Usually making a total mess for that city to clean up. How does something that brilliant help ANY cause? And I'm sorry ladies but just how educated do you have to be to dress up as a woman's private part and march for freedom? The Democratic Party has destroyed itself. Until they figure out how and where to put their education to use they will have a hard time trying to convince the millions of young people in the "red " areas of the United States that their cause is anything but a lot of loud noise.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    5 years ago

    Ken, you are a "Republican".

  • Ken (N.E.GA.mts) 7a/b
    5 years ago

    I'm a combat veteran. I'm going to vote for the person that I feel is best suited to be Commander & Chief. Calling me a Republican shows me just how shallow you really are. I sit back and watch.

  • Cori Ann - H0uzz violated my privacy
    5 years ago

    There is a lot of passion here. Rightfully so. Rose gardeners are especially passionate people. We attempt to learn, are not afraid to act, and enjoy doing. What I have found, in this antique rose forum, is that I am able to learn from others here, read their perspectives, then take action in my own garden in order to create my own experience.

    Conversations about roses within this forum are wonderful, but the magic happens in my own yard when I apply what I learned in the conversation.

    I believe the same can be said for this particular thread. Talking about our different political perspectives is interesting. But the real magic happens through our actions, regardless of where we stand on the left or on the right. This can be something as simple as supporting a news organization that aligns with your own perspective or signing petitions. It can also be more involved and personal, such as volunteering your time and expertise.

    Regardless of where you stand politically, you can see an area of need within this current political climate and choose fill it. Even being just one person, we can each make a difference. That is obvious within each of our gardens, as we cultivate the soil. We can also cultivate change in other areas of life too.

    I said this previously, but I volunteer at the VA hospital, at community kitchens, at an elder life program at a local hospital, and also by speaking to youth and women's groups about health and fitness. I do this because I see areas of need within populations of the elderly, veterans, and women and children... areas I have skills and knowledge in.

    Even though I was a single parent for many years, even though I work, and even though I am going back to school. I find the time because it is important to me... and each time I volunteer I leave feeling as though I have gained more than I could ever give. I also feel as though I am taking actions based on my beliefs and making a real difference. I volunteer side by side with other democrats and republicans with many different political views. But we each saw an area of need and chose to fill it. There is common ground.

    Regardless of my own political views, regardless of the political climate, regardless of the political choices being made in our country and others, I choose to be the change I personally want to see in the world. I am only one person, but my actions matter.

    I believe each of yours do too.

    The people within this forum are absolute do-ers. I completely believe in each of your abilities, because I have seen what you can each do in your gardens... and I personally believe the same life skills from gardening translate over into so many other areas.

    Action for change can be small. It doesn't have to be something that burdens you. It can be uplifting.

    Here's a quick article with ideas of different ways you can be politically active. I especially like #18-25.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/15/politics/ways-to-be-more-politically-active-trnd/

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    5 years ago

    Trump, Commander in Chief? Trump managing women's bodies?

  • boncrow66
    5 years ago

    Ken, thank you for your service to our country and I appreciate your opinion. Cori thanks for reminding us that we can make a difference by doing something that matters by making other people's lives better.

  • User
    5 years ago

    We've been censored again; new thread on this subject has been eliminated.

  • User
    5 years ago

    Bump

  • User
    5 years ago

    Bump

  • User
    5 years ago

    bump

  • User
    5 years ago

    We need Tamara's help again...

  • User
    5 years ago

    I've tried clicking on "contact us" and submitting a complaint and
    request that the thread be restored. I encourage all of you who feel as I
    do to do the same..."united we stand"!