rubyvine, Erikanh went with Crown Point. I did too. If you search for Crown Point on this site you will find that we are all VERY satisfied. I can't say enough about them. When I priced them they were on the lower end (the high end for me was WoodMode, Quality Custom Cabinetry). Only one came in lower than Crown Point. They offered me some discounts because it was a slow time and that helped the price. I am sure they are hurting for business ... I know Erika was offered free milk paint which is usually a 25% upgrade. Working with Crown Point actually helped a lot in reducing the overwhelming stress of the kitchen remodel process. I highly suggest you contact them, particularly since you are local. They are usually working direct so I don't know how that will sit with your KD - not sure he or she will get anything out of this if you go with them.

This has been discussed longer than I've been around here. (more than a decade) First you are much more likely looking at furniture board-aka particle board than MDF. The vast majority of cabinets do NOT use MDF but an enormous number of KD's, salesman, even contractors will refer to it as MDF. (but depending on type of each they would be on practically equal footing with particle having an edge over most of what is actually used for MDF in cabinets-there are over 100 variations for each) I currently only have one brand of frameless cabinets that offers Particle Board- they also offer ply and every other brand I have at the moment uses plywood sides. I went to great lengths to get that brand specifically for the particle board option. What I tell my customer- once you are at the middle price point, top end at the box store (Kraftmaid, Shuler...) there is no point in paying for plywood except: on exposed ends if that is what it takes to get veneer, and sometimes for shelves greater than 30" wide that will be VERY heavily loaded. So I'm telling them that when they go shopping somewhere else they should be looking at a less expensive options than some of what I have. When I worked at a place that had more particle board options available I told people exactly the same thing. I used to post the physical stats from the National Plywood Association for both- for all but bending under load, particle wins. Search back a few years if you want to see those. My own kitchen is particle board frameless because that is what I wanted and fit my budget. If I were to spend more I would not burn $$ just to be able to say I have plywood. There are far more important aspects to cabinets quality than "pepsi or coke" ply or furniture board. AND once you have settled on a price point there is more to picking who you work with than which brand-who provides it for you counts for more. As to the cabinets themselves- the most important aspect of a middle of the road or better brand is customer service and QC, finish is next, methods of construction and volume come in there (how rushed are the people on the glue line is my favorite thing to see when evaluating a brand- a really accurate indicator of how things will turn out in the long run). Jakuvall

My last two kitchens were painted cabinets. IMO the MDF doors are superior in a painted application. They don't swell and shrink. Thus, no cracked paint lines. MDF is not particle board. That's where people get all tripped up. Get some information on good MDF. It's an excellent product. I've been using MDF in cabinet boxes rather than plywood for a while now. I've had three excellent custom cabinet makers advise it's use in three of my kitchens. They used both plywood and MDF in their products. It didn't matter to them on way or the other. But, they all believed that I would appreciate the stability of the MDF in the long term and advised me accordingly. People get all tripped up over plywood versus MDF.

Real wood, even the much more stable composites like plywood and MDF, swell with moisture and release that moisture when the air dries out. That will leave minute cracks at any joints. Today's professional coatings are much more flexible than the old oils of yesteryear, so the cracking won't be as apparent, but it will still occur. "Real wood" for cabinets is a term bandied about by the uneducated kutside the industry. Realistically, cabinets haven't been constructed of all solid wood panels since plywood was invented. Solid wood panels are the most unstable form of wood that exists. Plywood was a great leap forward in furniture construction. As was MDF. Technically, MDF is just as much "real wood" as is plywood if not more so because it's able to be much denser--To have more wood per cubic inch than plywood. They are both made of cross grain wood, it's just the plywood uses layers of cross grain veneers while the MDF uses tiny wood particles where the fibers lock together like wool does to make felt. Both can have issues with moisture if exposed, with the unprotected MDF swelling and the plywood delaminating If you want a painted cabinet with zero cracks anywhere, get thermofoil instead. You're not really wanting the natural characteristics of wood. You want plastic. Thermofoil will give you the look that you desire. Thermofoil wraps come in many many different colors today, and they are much more durable--and attractive--than yesterday's thermofoil. Just look at Martha Stewart's cabinets. No paint there. All high tech European thermofoil that most would be hard pressed to tell wasn't paint. Solid MDF that mimics a stile and rail construction will be the next most stable. It will not have any real joints to move as it would be a solid piece. The downside to that is that you aren't able to achieve sharp definition at the corners, so it always looks a bit "off". It won't really save you much in costs over thermofoil though if you have it hand painted instead of sprayed. However, hand painting instead of spraying can help with the perceived "plasticy" look, as can hand applying a slight glaze over a sprayed coat. That will also be an upcharge. Multipart MDF with an actual free floating inner panel and separate stiles and rails will be the next most stable when it comes to cracks. It's plenty strong enough and durable enough for most situations. Just like the solid MDF, if it's hand painted instead of sprayed, It's a much more realistic look because of the multiple parts and you will not be able to visually tell the difference between it and solid wood if hand painted. If it's sprayed, it tends to look a bit "too smooth" to the experts. The average person will not be able to see nor will they care. Next in line in stability comes wood rails and stiles and a MDF center panel. This helps a bit with the cracking between the panel and the frames, as that is often the most apparent spot, especially if the doors were painted after assembly which is very common. The spot where the stiles and rails meet have the wood grain going in different directions, so you will still get cracking at that spot, much more than a MDF frame. As I said, with the new latex paints, it's less apparent than with the old oil paints. Hand painting with the minor errors that entails will also help it to achieve the less than perfect natural look. The most prone to hygroscopic behavior is solid wood--which can be a bit misleading. Most "solid wood" recessed panel doors are not really solid wood. They are plywood panels with wood frames very much behaving like the solid wood with MDF panels I explained above. There is zero advantage of a plywood over MDF for the center panel if you are using wood frames. The MDF is probably cheaper for the same look. "Solid" raised panel doors (or solid reverse recessed panel doors) are the most prone to potential cracking. The panels are not "solid" in that they are created out of a single piece of wood. That would expand and contract horribly! The panels are constructed of several solid pieces laminated together and then machined with a profile before being placed into the stiles and rails. In addition to all of the usual suspect spots for cracking, these add the potential of cracking occurring between the laminated wood strips. They are the most authentic construction for very old homes, as plywood and MDF did not exist 150 years ago, but they will also give you the most authentic look. That means the potential of hairline cracks pretty much everywhere. All in all, the less processed product that the cabinets are made of, the more "defects" it will have. The more man made and processed a product is, the more "perfect" it becomes, with little variation in construction or appearance. More "natural looking" is a polite way to say "has natural defects that would not occur in a man made product". Some people want something expensive to look "shiny and new" always and those are the people who have little tolerance for the variations found in nature. Those people are the ones that should look to thermofoil to give them their desired "maintenance free and new" look. Some want their new kitchens to immediately look as though they've been there for years---with the natural patina of time built in. Most of us are in between, and we usually have our budget interjecting it's own constraints on our aesthetics.