Best to cut flowers/buds off when fall-planting?

7 years ago

Over the last month or so I've planted some perennials I got from a nursery -- Monkshood, Anemone x Pamina, Black-Eyed Susan (Rudbeckia triloba) and Heliopsis helianthoides. They all had either just unopened flower buds (Monkshood) or just a few blooms (the others). I'd like to convince myself that these were recent arrivals at the nursery but my guess is that they'd been there for some part of the summer and the earlier flowers had been cut by the nursery. All have been doing pretty well in my garden.

I didn't do this, but I've heard it suggested that in cold-winter climates like mine (I'm outside of Boston) that when you plant a perennial in the fall, you should cut off any flower buds or opened flowers. You don't want the poor plant -- just put in the ground -- to be wasting any of its precious energy into producing flowers but instead it should be going into root growth to build reserves for winter.

I'd very much appreciate hearing the pros and cons of this argument. Thanks.

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Marie Tulin

7 years ago

And plant growth and/or bloom time is also triggered by soil temp and daylight length, isn't it? But since you are talking about fall bloomers, can we assume they are similar in responding to those stimuli. Or am I just confusing things?

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Comments (10)

gardenweed_z6a
7 years ago
You've obviously done some research and given thought to what you're planting. Third week of October in New England, newly planted perennials should devote their energy toward developing root systems that will see them through the winter so I'd be inclined to cut off flower buds given this is their first year in the ground. Here in southern New England (north-central CT) we're in a drought so most of my garden is looking stressed. All my perennials have been in the ground nearly a decade so I'm relying on their well-established root systems to see them through the coming winter.

Just FYI - my toad lily (tricyrtis hirta) is blooming now and loaded with buds.
Rick (zone 6b, MA)
Original Author
7 years ago
I guess I would like to see a scientific article confirming the very common (and admittedly reasonable!) idea that a plant diverts energy from growing its roots in order to produce flowers and that it's just a one-way transfer of energy. It makes complete sense, but I'd like to see more of the botany and biology of it. I'm just not 100% convinced that producing flowers is a net loss to the roots, end of story. I wonder if it's possible that any growth process of the plant also grows the roots, and that there are other variables involved.

But maybe I'm completely wrong. Clearly growing the leaves sends energy to the root, but maybe growing flowers just results in a net loss to the roots, and that is the end of the story. Maybe I'm just self-justifying because I want to see flowers on my plants -- yes, even the first few months after I plant them in September! I just can't stand the idea of cutting them off as soon as I put them in the ground. :-(((
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Granola Gardener had a similar question, but your symptoms sound more severe. Take a look at my reply to Granola (I linked it and also pasted it at the end of this message)... But in addition, it really sounds like your plants are root bound. Gently lift them from their pots to see what the soil and roots look like. You may need to pot them into a larger pot (see my notes on potting soil for hibiscus below) and/or prune the roots a bit. Also, in the fall go ahead and prune the plants, very drastically if you like. Make sure the roots are ok in the pot and that you haven't been overfeeding or underfeeding. Hibiscus generally bloom on new wood (especially tropical) so pruning before winter not only helps to overwinter but also gets new wood growing by spring. Since you're in Winnipeg, put them in the brightest room you have, and maybe supplement with additional plant lights. -- Here's what I wrote to Granola: Let 'em dry out a bit (just a bit). Hibiscus don't like "wet feet". Also, many so-called hibiscus fertilizers are horrible for hibiscus (way too high on the phosphate). Try a tomato fertilizer or dig some Osmocote into the soil. A low middle number (7-2-7 or so) is a pretty good route. Also, how long have these plants been in the same pots? They may be root bound, in which case you can root prune (trim a bit of the root ball all the way around, and do normal root bound procedures to encourage new roots) or simply pot up. For hibiscus potting soil, I mix regular potting soil with perlite, bark, and some cactus soil if I can find it -- also a little potting charcoal if I've got it. That makes a very well draining soil. Finally, since you say you keep them moist, you may have salts built up in your pots from the tapwater. Let the soil dry out and then run the hose on the pot with a gentle stream til a good amount of water runs through the bottom. This should help wash any salts out. Here is a link that might be useful: Granola Gardener's hibiscus question
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GardenHo_MI_Z5
7 years ago
I always cut mine back after planting...

You could cut some back, and leave others to bloom, noting/mapping them for next years results.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
7 years ago
cold-winter climates like mine (I'm outside of Boston)

==>>>> pshaw on z6 6 being a cold zone .. lol ...

if fully hardy.. beyond 6.. dont go babying them .. and killing them with too much love ...

i was told.. by the time you see the buds.. or flowers.. the energy was long spent ... cutting them off now.. is NOT going to save much of anything .. so its not all that big a deal.. one way or the other ...

that said ... i always cut them off ... if near opening.. put them in a vase.. in the house.. and see if they open ... whats to lose??

thought research for the sake of learning is great ... dont get too wound up in it all .. proper planting and watering.. is really all they need ... if for some reason you lose them.. it wont be due to the flowers you speak of ... [it will probably be those darn squirrels popping them out of the ground.. lol]

ken
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
7 years ago
All the perennials listed are late season bloomers, not producing any flowers until late summer at the earliest, with the aconitum and the anemone being true fall bloomers. So I doubt many, if any, flowers or buds had already been removed. Offering perennial plants in bloom in season is how retail nurseries sell - removing any flowers (unless spent flowers) is not at all to their benefit!!

There is no issue about planting with flowers in place. As has been mentioned, the energy necessary to generate those flowers has already been expended. All you need to worry about now is getting them in the ground and settled for winter. I'd consider mulching well to protect against frost heave - that can be far more detrimental to a late planting than if the plant is currently in flower.
LaLennoxa 6a/b Hamilton ON
7 years ago
I'd echo GardenHo's idea of testing it out for yourself in your micro-climate environment. In the absence of documented scientific proof, you become your own scientist. I personally throw everything in and leave as is, and wait to be surprised next spring.
Rick (zone 6b, MA)
Original Author
7 years ago
THANK YOU, ken_adrian and gardengal48. This is the kind of thing that I love this forum for. I had never previously heard it suggested that by the time the bud appears (much less the flower), most of the energy transference from the root has already been expended. In a way, that gives me license to let these bloom so I can appreciate them this year!

Some day I'm going to resume my study of botany (interrupted 40 years ago).
Rick (zone 6b, MA)
Original Author
7 years ago
An additional consideration just brought to me by a friend. We know that very often deadheading triggers more floral growth; in fact, that's what we often do during the year. Here we're live-heading rather than dead-heading, but I think it has the same effect. Maybe cutting a bud or flower off a newly-planted perennial does in fact trigger growth of the roots, but perhaps that root growth is only just put right back to grow more flowers! Maybe the root says, "Hey, what are you doing? Why did you just cut off my buds and flowers? OK, then -- I'm just going to try to produce more. I will grow -- which I knew you were just trying to help with -- but now to try to grow new flowers that you just cut off!" Thus defeating our purpose.

But maybe not. Maybe the plant's tendency to try to replace deadheaded flowers with new ones doesn't get triggered so much in cold weather.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
7 years ago
that gives me license to let these bloom so I can appreciate them this year!

==>>> great ... but this is the cool fall ...

if for some reason.. you stroked out.. and decided to plant in the heat of august ... and they were blooming .. i would cut off the flowers ....because they are water hogs .... and to reduce ridiculous stress ... i would be done with them ... you just wont have that water stress this time of year ...

we had a hard frost last night in my MI ...... you still might want to cut them and enjoy them in the house.. if and when the forecast is for such in your area .... you keep saying you are going to enjoy them this fall ... but dude.. its like late october ..... the days dwindle down... to a precise few ... see link

ken

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7810J78TmbU

Best to cut flowers/buds off when fall-planting?

Marie Tulin

Comments (10)

gardenweed_z6a

Rick (zone 6b, MA)
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Best to cut flowers/buds off when fall-planting?

Marie Tulin

Comments (10)

gardenweed_z6a

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