Sunrise, SP is a much lower quality product.

The sunrise door is the best by far. its a wonderful door.

Try contacting them directly and they should be able to provide a list of local contractors for you.

Sunrise and Okna are my two favorite vinyl sliders. You should have access to both in your location. If you are happy with the appearance of vinyl, those products will provide much better energy efficiency than most any wood clad.

Sorry about that, you are indeed a little bit farther out than we travel. Try Dave at Strong windows in Chicagoland. Good guy, let him know that we referred you.

"If I can find a supplier, my neighbor installs windows"

Don't have your neighbor install your windows. That always without fail leads to trouble. If anything goes wrong, you still have to live with your neighbor.

+1. Tall Fences make for good neighbors. I would be very wary of using my neighbor for any sort of complicated projecting.

So I wanted to update. I went on Sunrises's website over the weekend and filled out a form with my contact information, but never heard from them. I then called yesterday and left a message during business hours(11am) and never heard from them. I called today and spoke to a Erica who said she would contact their sales person to call me. I specifically asked that I do NOT want my information given to a company to call me, she said that it would be someone from Sunrise (Joe) that will call me. Fast forward two hours, I just got a call from the company that I originally called for the quote of 2500.

I am not too sure how great the customer service is at Sunrise, but my experience so far in dealing with them has been sub-par. I asked that my information not be shared with an install company, yet they did so anyway.

As a consumer, how am I expected to get different quotes (3estimates) or choose the best installer when I do not have all the information I need? Also I am not liking the fact Okna/Sunrise products are not at supply houses/distributors so I can determine the true cost of the patio door before install. There really isn't any transparency which is concerning. For all I know, a sunrise patio door will run 1k and the company is charging 1500 for pickup and install.

At this point it appears Sunrise is not an option. Okna is also not an option as the local installer in my area that they recommended to me over the phone is a "hail/storm specialist" and many neighbors have warned never to use them due to work on their properties. We get a lot of bad hail storms here so there are quite a number of companies that specialize in that area. They would not offer a second company to me. Looks like it's between what I can get my hands on locally so I know what I am paying for. I can not justify paying 2500 for a vinyl door when I can have the Andersen 400 vinyl clad installed for under 2k.

Left in contention:Andersen 400, Sierra Pacific as both are vinyl/aluminum clad options and both can be installed under 2k. Unless I find another quality product with transparency for the consumer.

Homesealed-Thank you for your help, I will take a look at them.

Andersen 400 series is not aluminum clad, it is vinyl clad. And Sierra Pacific is not a product pros would call acceptable. I would try Dave at Strong as Homesealed suggested.

+1 tonthe recommedations above.

Also, be careful about trying to analyze costs. Let's use your hypothetical numbers: $1000 for the door. Now say the install is $600 or so, and the average marketing cost for a home improvement company to procure a job is around $400 (actually higher). That leaves only $500 (20%) left for overhead (insurance, certifications, tools and equipment, fuel, training, rent and utilities, and so on and so on). Notice what is not even mentioned at all yet? Profit. In other words, 1) $2500 installed for a quality door is a VERY fair price, and 2) analyzing job costing when dealing with an actual, reputable business is far more complicated than figuring out the cost of the product and install. This is why most companies don't volunteer that information upfront because it would get exhausting to have to explain all of those circumstances that may result in a profit that is fair at best

I do not want to get into any disagreements in regards to cost as it is a touchy subject, but this is my train of thought about it and I may very well be wrong. If I am wrong, then I know I just need to readjust my thoughts.This was my train of thought, and like I said I may be very wrong so please do not take offense if you are in the field.

Price of the actual door + 20 percent max markup. That would bring the 1k door to 1200. Installs typically take 4 hours for replacement and at maximum would be 600(labor charge typically 240 out of 600 if installers make 30 an hr) . So for a door costing 1k to procure, I am willing to pay around 1800 maximum for my purchase with the install being performed to the manufacturers installation guidelines. That last part is huge.

That would not be a sustainable business pete. Also, a $30 per hour installer is more like $50-$60 after FICA and FUTA. We could continue to dig into the minutiae of running a home improvement business if you would like, but it sounds like your primary objective is to find a fair deal on a good product. If that is the case, simply get a few quotes to compare and confirm "market price". I can tell you that $2500 installed for a quality door is very fair if not even low, but obviously you can get more quotes if you would like to verify that. Over analyzing costing is a rabbit hole that ends with mostly inaccurate figures and frustration for all

Thanks fridge for your information. I have only received the one quote so far. It's hard to get quotes because okna and sunrise seem so secretive whereas Andersen, Kolbe, loewen, Sierra Pacific etc are open with their pricing.

They gave me only one installer each and that leaves me without competition or comparison. I will just have to take my time and understand everything. If that truly is the average price then I would have to choose between companies, I just have no comparison as of yet.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. In my experience, both personally and with clients, the lesson to be learned when things go bad is that you get what you pay for. There are never any guarantees and I highly recommend doing the research on the quality of the company, but the better the "deal", the more likely it is to encounter issues. That is an indisputable fact. Going with a neighbor is the wrong direction and a great way to ruin a relationship. I do wish you the best on your project though, just providing food for thought.

Thanks fridge for your advice and help!

Okna right now is no longer in consideration. I called Okna again asking for any other installers in the Chicagoland area, and she told me that they have one installer per area to protect their installers. When I asked to protect from what, price competition, she would not answer. They may be great products, but that practice doesn't sit right with me.

I got a call back from Sunrise apologizing for being contacted by an installer. She is getting ahold of the regional rep so I can get 3 local companies to request estimates and look at their references. I find it odd that it is so difficult to find companies who offer their products... In the end, I am getting the feeling sunrise may be just like okna in practice.

Pete, I can understand while you might initially find that distasteful. Protect from price competition? Kind of. Not nearly the full story though. Let's say that you made a widget, and your widget was better than others on the market. You spent a lot more money researching and developing your widget, and spend more on materials and labor to produce the widget. This widget needs to be installed by qualified individuals to work properly. Now let's say you are in an industry where any Joe blow can become a professional widget installer with no certification or training and there is a very small initial investment needed to start a business widget installing. Basically any drunk with a hammer and a tool belt can do it. With all of the time and money that you have spent building the brand and quality of your widget, wouldn't you want only highly qualified, vetted, reputable, and financially stable widget installers putting in your product? Of course you would. You would not want people to think poorly of your widget because of a jabroni installer right? This is what you will find with nearly all high end window products, and for that reason. Does that limit price competition? To some extent yes. It limits it to companies that have a good reputation and volume, and have to charge a minimum price to be able to sustain that. The neighbor guy that works for beer money cannot get it. Whether you believe it or not, that offers some protection to you as a consumer in addition to helping the dealer of the product as well as the manufacturer protect their brand. Why can Pella and Andersen sell to anyone then? Because they have built their brands into household names many years ago when there were far more cratfsmen, and fewer rip off artists. You can certainly find a ton of bad reviews about each of them today, however their reputations were cemented long ago for the most part, whether deserved today or not. This is also why most of the other manufacturers that are available anywhere for anyone to buy, are not very good. They are made to meet a low price point, and they know that there will always be a steady supply of people that buy on price alone. That is their niche. Okna and Sunrise and other high end products operate differently. Frankly if you don't like the way that is done, you are severely limiting yourself when it comes to quality choices. Lastly, are there companies that take advantage of exclusivity? Sure. Sometimes they do that without the manufacturer protection if they are shady enough. I know of a company that sold the same window that was $189 from a national chain for over $1200ea by just making up their own brand name and brochures. Pretty shameful. A patio door equivalent would be $5k for a mediocre door. Again, $2500 for a very good door is reasonable.

Well I found a second quote from someone a bit further away from Sunrise, a great deal at 4k (sarcasm) . So now a 2500 and 4000 quote. Same door, guess one company must use better quality caulk which should account for the price difference. They would not break down costs and merely said they sell units by price with install, basic 72x80 is 4k and it goes up from there.

I am sorry, but while you may look at the supposed upsides, I look at the downsides. The major downside for me is this, companies charge what they want as the customer is stuck paying as there is no other choice. In other words you are controlling the market price which is fine. I would just rather not support that practice as a consumer. Not only that, but the local company for one of these brands is a local storm chaser not known for quality according to reviews. When I had storm damage this same company didn't want to price out repairs, instead they wanted me to sign a contract that stated they would walk my insurance agent around and take the entire amount from my insurance for the work regardless of the cost of the actual repair. The contract had to be signed prior to me calling my insurance. Again a deceptive tactic (contingency contract) employed by a company that is supposed to be a quality screened installer for a high quality patio door......

With that said I will probably stop the thread here. I think I got the consensus of opinion here that the Sunrise/Okna are a great door, if you can get passed the sales method used. I merely hope that any future customer may look at my experience and ensure they do their own homework to ensure their comfort level is being met. I am strongly looking at the Andersen 400/Marvin Integrity Ultrex and they are highly recommended by a few local lumber yards. I am sure I am missing out on a great product but I am also sure there are a lot of good products that have more transparent practices which I am comfortable with. The search will continue until I find something I am comfortable with. Thanks to everyone for your help.

Petes67bird

your hypothetical is flawed in a few ways. The one that stands out the most is your undertanding of the cost of the patio door itself. The doors are going to cost more than what your hypothetical equation states assuming you want a solid door from sunrise, okna, or soft lite. you then have to add in the cost of a professional installation, insurance, and marketing costs. Of course you can have the neighbor go to home depot and buy a cheaply made door, watch a youtube video on how to install it, and then blame the world when everything goes wrong.

You seem to be looking for us to give our blessing on your corner cutting initiative which we just wont do. It will send the wrong message to future homeowners who come to this board looking for responsible advice.

a quick tip : call a professional, get a good door, and have it installed correctly.

that will save you plenty of money.