I'm not necessarily advocating that she stay in the marriage. I am, however, rather appalled at some of the responses here that place precedence on the friend's desire to have children rather than support her husband's illness. This is especially the case after learning they've been married nearly 20 years. I'm in an extremely difficult marriage right now, and even this notion is a bit too flippant for me.

A friend of mine whose son is schizophrenic says the National Alliance on Mental Illness is a tremendous resource for families coping with mental health challenges. Also, this thread about marriage and mental health reminds me of Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's marriage. Her husband suffered from Alzheimer's and was living in a memory care facility. O'Connor would visit him consistently- weekly or more- somebody asked her why she would visit a man who did not even remember her. Justice O'Connor's reply: He may not remember me- but I remember him.

Life asks tough things. This is why the vows say "in sickness and in health". I wonder if he was honest with her when they married? When first IN LOVE we think we can concur anything. Chances are the signs were there when they were dating and she made a choice. As he is more and more volatile I am not sure she has to live with him but yep she is on the line for taking care of , watching over him. She is blessed they do not have children. That would add a very sad dimension to a sad sad situation. Hopefully she has extended family and close friends that will fill in the gaps and support her through.

Bumblebeez, she's not Christian but she certainly has morals and an ethical compass, else she would have left years ago.

LisaD, i guess the fundamental moral question is, how long is one obligated to remain in a hellish situation to support someone who desperately unhappy and incapable of supporting back? She didn't put it this way but I would as her friend, his life is already horrible and doesn't seem to have much of a chance to be great (as his disease seems to be progressing). Does her life need to be ruined too to support him? The really sad part is she already supported him through major physical issues in the past and so has proven she would stick by him in a tough situation but this is beyond tough. And the very sad part is that it's not his choice, but he's no easier to live with than a raging alcoholic or drug abuser.

It would be much easier for her if he lived in a facility, but he would hate it of course. I'm sure she would visit him faithfully but then she could go home to a happy home and feel at peace somewhere in her life.

But being trapped in a little apartment with someone who, when delusional, doesn't alert you because he thinks you're the enemy and when not delusional is majorly depressed, being glad to go to work to escape that, ugh, it makes me feel so horrible.

I knew him when they were dating and there were no signs. He was a normal, happy healthy loving intelligent guy.

She has no family or close friends nearby, his family lives about 3h away and hers lives near me.

I thought I posted a reply so I'm sorry if it comes up twice. I'm obviously seeing things in a more selfish light than she is because she's the one who is my friend. The kids thing resonates with me in particular because I also really want to have kids and likely cannot, and it is a big deal for me. It also puts a bit of a time limit in the sense that if she waits around for 10 years for him to deteriorate enough to be institutionalized or commit suicide, that window is closed and she will have no family, no possibility of one, and no husband.

It is a real heartbreaker because for me it seems like his life is also going to be unbearably difficult and he has been extremely unlucky. The disease is progressing, and he has other major incurable physical issues that she has been 100% supportive of, that will also progressively get worse. From when I can Google the two may even be related, althkough this isnt common, but that doesn't make either one more curable. She was certainly ready to deal with that although that was also diagnosed after their marriage. It is a complete tragedy for everyone.

My SisterIL is bipolar so I'm familiar with mental illnesses. Sounds like her husband got a "late onset" mental illness instead of the usual way which occurs in late teens to early 20's.

What is the diagnosis? My SIL is Bipollar II. Which is the less severe form, but she still needs meds. I'm assuming the husband has tried all medications possible? Because it takes a lot of experimenting on different medications to find the one that works. Some medications can make a mental illness worse.

One med my SIL was on caused her to hear voices and call her family evil. She was taken off of it immediately and switched to another, and it works great! But it took four or five meds to find the right one. Also, you might ask your friend if her husband is taking an anti-depressant. AD's can cause severe mania.

If he's a danger to her, or she thinks he can be, and he's taken every possible med or combination of meds out there and they're not working, then she needs to protect herself, and I guess that would be divorce. Severe bipolar or schizophrenia that can't be treated is a dangerous situation for your friend to be in.

Is your friend wanting a baby with her husband? If so, NO to that, because there is a high chance the child will develop a mental illness also. It's not guaranteed though, but the baby can pass on the genes.

If she does divorce him, she needs to talk to his family first so someone can be there to "catch" him so he's not left alone to his own devices.

My heart breaks for her, and I wish her luck.

Thanks Oakley for your personal experience with this type of situation. One thing that's probably leading me to catatrophize is that I don't have a lot of experience with psychotic or delusional type mental disorders. My family is riddled with depression and alcoholism so those are what I am familiar with. His diagnosis keeps changing as he keeps getting worse so I think that his meds are quite dynamic. I think they now think he has schizophrenia on top of whatever else.

she would not have a baby with her husband both because he cannot parent and because he has several serious health and mental issues.

Her husband is suffering an illness. His violence is not a behavioral trait. That's the distinction.

******

The way I see it, it's a distinction without a difference. If she's in danger, the impetus origin for hurting or killing her isn't going to matter.

I completely agree that it's not his fault, and it's not her fault either. That's probably the saddest part of all. One of his family members suggested to her that his rages were because she nags him too much (according to her they barely speak), but then they were witness to him in one of the hammer smashing episodes so I think that they are more on board now.

It would be much easier for her if he lived in a facility, but he would hate it of course. I'm sure she would visit him faithfully but then she could go home to a happy home and feel at peace somewhere in her life.

******

This is what a dear neighbor had to face with her husband, who was diagnosed with dementia, another chronic, deteriorating and incurable condition.

This couple is older, but he was in otherwise perfect health and able to care for himself. However, he had a couple episodes where he became very confused and violent, and that was that. She put him in a nursing care facility, where he gets excellent care.

She simply was unsafe, and unable to help him and protect him, too.

She visits several times a week, and gives herself permission to enjoy life outside of his situation, which is a great gift to herself.

Of course, wanting kids isn't an issue, since they have grown children, but the decision to do things like this are very, very difficult.

Yes, it would be easier if he were in a facility. It sounds like that is what is probably going to happen if his disease progresses. I've watched this a couple of times in recent years - both older couples (one a dear friend of my mom). One had Alzheimers and the other a neuro-muscular disease that also affected him mentally. Mental illness is a disease. In my eyes it's no different than cancer or any other life threatening disease. She doesn't have to divorce him, she just needs to protect herself. Putting him in a facility may very well be the best thing not only for him, but for herself. It sounds like she is more interested in having a child, than finding another partner. She could have a child on her own and still support the husband, but it really sounds like he needs to be in some type facility. It might be a good idea if she were to visit some facilities. You (or she?) said he would hate it - but honestly, in his condition, would he even comprehend what had happened? It might even turn out BETTER for him. There's that possibility he could be happier there. He would have caretakers who are trained to work with someone in his condition. I think Mimi's neighbor handled things in a great manner.

I think for me, I would give this wife a great deal of understanding and sympathy (knowing you are, for sure, robo). She is ultimately the one who will have to live with her decisions. If she leaves him/separates from him for her own safety and well being, she will no doubt mourn the man, marriage and life she once knew for the rest of her life.

That is a tremendous cross to bear in and of itself. It is a death.

I hope that she learns to be gentle with herself if indeed she does choose to not live as man and wife any longer.

He is still somewhat functional and intelligent so he would not be able to live in a facility or supportive housing unless he wanted to. He has only committed voluntarily up to this point.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood that he was currently institutionalized when you said he had been. If he and your friend are still living together, then I can only imagine the fear and anxiety she is living at this time. Thanks, robo, for the further explanations about her relationship with her in-laws.

Mimi, you summed it up so well in your last sentences.

Sorry, I guess I was assuming if she left, he should not be on his own. Apparently he is not a danger to himself, only others? I also thought you said he was progressing. Reading too quickly I guess!

More than likely your friend is suffering from PTS from all of this. Mental illness is THE most cruelest disease out there for one reason and one reason only. Nobody outside of the situation gives a flying fig as they would if someone had cancer.

Before I can give you more advice, find out from your friend if he's on medication, and have they tried every medication out there for schizophrenia and bipolar. Also ask if he's also on an anti-depressant. Hallucinations sometimes goes with bipolar. I think there is a mental disorder called schizoaffective disorder, which may be a combo of schizophrenia and bipolar.

Did you know Prince William, Catherine, and Harry have all taken mental illness as their charity? Some have said Diana had a mental disorder other than bulemia.

This is very sad. On the one hand, if I was the one with the mental illness and I was abusive and unrecognizable to my DH, I don't think I would want him to live with me day to day under these circumstances.

Can medication eventually stabilize him? Have they tried everything possible? You do hear medical miracles every now and again.

Even though he could be stabilized, I'm not sure adding children to this situation would the right thing to do.

I am not sure I saw it - what was the diagnosis? it sounds like they have money, are they going to good doctors? Do they have a 2nd opinion? Has she tried testing for vitamin deficiency as part of the evaluation.

How old is he?

it is so hard to know what is driving things sometimes. I would hope that the state of medical treatment is better than it was 20 years ago,. but I remember when my mom was sick visiting both her and my Boyfriends father in the same mental institution in south NJ. Neither one were mentally ill, The boy friends father died of melanoma a few weeks later (undiagnosed till a few days before his death) and my mother ended up having a rare brain disease which caused auditory hallucinations (besides a whole host of other horrible things - MSA)

The children issue is a tough one. Freeze her eggs?

I'm so sorry for your friend. These things are never easy.

My SIL was diagnosed with mental illness. My brother tried to help her as best he could, and she was on medication and under a doctor's care. When she tried to kill him, he realized he had no choice but to get out. Otherwise, he would be dead and his kids would be in foster care. I understand the wish to have children, but bringing them into a situation like that would not be a good idea. Also, I think the tendency to some mental illnesses can run in families. My SIL's brother and mother also suffered from the same thing she did. This was an illness that did not show up until she was an adult. Encourage your friend to get education on his specific illness, and counseling for herself.

His family is well off but they are not particularly because they're living on one salary in a high cost of living area. However inpatient medical treatment is free here. And they have a good drug plan.

I'm not sure what his diagnosis is currently… It keeps changing. First it was major depressive, then the manic started showing up then they learned about the auditory hallucinations and delusions which he had been concealing. She does leave him alone during the day to work but depending on where he was at sometimes ensures he has company.

I think there's a big gulf between being someone who can be a responsive partner and being someone who is so severely ill that they must be institutionalized permanently. And he is somewhere in that gulf from what I understand. He could get maybe back towards almost being like a partner again if they can hit on the right combo of heavy duty drugs, or if the disease keeps progressing he may not be able to live independently.

they are both under 40.

many thanks to those of you who shared your stories and experiences. It's very helpful for me because as I said I do not have a lot of experience of or knowledge of this kind of situation. I feel like my immediate reactions are ignorant toward people who struggle with severe mental illness.

I would like to think that mental illness can be cured. In my experience, it most often cannot be cured. I have several family members who are mentally ill, and a friend whose best friend went off the deep end, and they have never gotten better, just worse, and have caused very much pain and anguish to those who love them--spouses, parents, children, friends etc. I even know three sets of parents who cannot have contact with their children because they are a danger to them. I wish we had better answers for treating these conditions. These are people for whom treatment was sought and attempted many times. If you love someone who is mentally ill, and you stick by them, your whole life will be dealing with their delusions and problems and it will never end. You will have to deal with never knowing when the next, horrible episode will happen. I'm sure there are success stories, I just don't know of any. I know only of sad helpless people who have to watch a loved one self-destruct.

I personally know 2 success stories of people who suffered mental breakdowns that caused hallucinations and extremely disturbing paranoia behavior (and yes 1 was violent and the other just very delusional). One is a friend diagnosed in the 1970s and the other is a family member diagnosed in the 1990s. Both are functioning adults but are carefully monitored by their doctors and each has required occasional hospitalization to adjust medication and ECT. A significant factor in each case is a strong advocate and understanding that managing the disease is very challenging but possible. Treatment plans need to be continually adjusted and updated.

Robo, if your friend is contemplating divorce, please encourage her to bring his family into the fold sooner than later so they are up to speed and can take over as his advocate.

This entire thread leaves me so disheartened. If her husband had MS or if she has a child born with autism, this would be a different conversation. Perhaps William, Kate and Harry can work to make mental illness more palatable.

This entire thread leaves me so disheartened. If her husband had MS or if she has a child born with autism, this would be a different conversation.

^^^^^

Indeed, the conversation would be different, yet, Robo's friend has to deal with what is, not what you wish were different.

We have no idea what her journey has been and can't imagine what it's like to be in her shoes.

It is just sad all around.

It's not the situation I wish were different, mimipadv. It's the reaction to it.

Whether this person's prognosis is good or bad is irrelevant to the conversation. There is a profoundly ill person who needs help and support to reach a stabile situation. If your friend believes she is unsafe around her husband, then he needs even more help. Can you imagine walking out of a marriage over such concerns and find your spouse has gone on to harm someone else? The husband needs to be treated. Spouses are assumed to bear the responsibility for the medical health of their partners.

Spouses are assumed to bear the responsibility for the medical health of their partners.

*****

How? Power of attorney? Conservatorship? Commitment?

How is Robo's friend supposed to "assume the medical health" of another adult, whom I assume is a free human being and entitled to make his own decisions?

He may be too well to be forced into or get treatment, yet too ill to stay with safely.

Single, married or otherwise, I believe we all have the right to protect and defend our life.

You tell us, mimipadv. Who is legally and morally responsible for advocating for this man who, based on Robo's description, is not in a state to make decisions in his own best interest or those around him?

He's violent. He hallucinates. Who should be responsible for him?

How? Power of attorney? Conservatorship? Commitment?

********

Whatever it takes. It's called marriage. It is a social institution. It benefits society that we form into families and take care of one another. If we shirk those responsibilities we are passing them on to other people- possibly with disastrous consequences.

Life is not always pleasant. We don't always get what we want. Nobody wants sickness and disability. They come unbidden one way or another to everyone's door.

Robo, the family member I mention above was married and his wife divorced him once his mental illness became too much for her to bear. My family then assumed the responsibility for his continued treatment, and he would not be where he is without our advocacy. This is why I implore you to get her to have his family involved, because they will be his fallback.

I'm glad Canada has provisions in its healthcare to take care of him. In our case here in the US, it's been a significant financial--on top of emotional--drain on the family to treat mental illness. There are of course personal rewards in knowing he is functioning and doing well now because of our efforts.

This is where my contributions to this discussion will end. It's too personal for me at this point. And I was the one in my 20s worrying every day whether I'd become victim to this too--as one poster noted above, it tends to manifest in young adults. My family member was in his 30s. I'm past that but I'm watchful of my kids.

Thanks Lisa for sharing your personal experiences. If you care to comment more and I understand it's personal and you may not wish to respond, have you lived with or been the primary caregiver for your family member? what strategies have you used for self care? The family is now aware in my friend''s case although at first they attributed it to marital issues..

Some cases of Bipolar and Schizophrenia are very difficult to treat. The first and most important thing is to find the right medication. The most difficult part is to ensure they take it.

I have a friend with Delusional Disorder. She refuses to even consider that her delusions are not real. A couple of her friends and myself included have tried for years to help her. So far, it seems to be impossible. We cannot get her into a hospital and even when she has been prescribed meds she won't take them.

She is simply spiraling down and we are at a loss. We have reached out to her mom who seems weak and almost aloof to it all. However, she is frustrated with our friend. We are going to try and take her to the hospital along with her mom this week. Sadly, the outcome of two to three days in the hospital will likely result in failure. We do not have the same healthcare here in the US and she has no insurance. She needs to be hospitalized and then in an inpatient program for at least six months to get her meds just right and to get her to take them. We are still going to give it a go. It is our last chance.

She has lost her job and without her mother she would likely be homeless. It is one of the saddest things I have experienced.

I wish your friend the best and hope she can come to her own answers as to what to do in such an anguishing situation.

Lisa, please don't stop posting, you're giving great advice and insight. People who've never been around mental illness have no idea what can and can't be done.

Someone has to be an advocate to a mentally ill person. Here's the thing. If a M.I. person is feeling completely normal, they stop taking their meds because psychotropic meds also bring bad side effects. Then they go into a manic stage. Maybe not immediately, but it happens. Someone has to make sure the person takes their medication every single day.

When my SIL was first diagnosed she took a particular med 3xday. Do you know how hard that is to do, even for the advocate to remind the person? Her next med actually caused mania with delusions!

Robo, I'm serious about asking your friend if her husband is on an antidepressant along with his other med(s). Part of me hopes he is which could be the culprit.

This is how bad our state, and the rest of America is in regards to the mentally ill. OK. is #1 in incarceration. Our local news said the other night that the majority of inmates have a mental illness. Speaks volumes.

Prisons and jails are the largest mental health institutions in the USA.

I'm interested in how one advocates for a mentally ill person who refuses treatment. In the cases I know of in detail, the person refuses the treatment and since they are adults, they cannot be forced to get treatment. So I too wonder how treatment was administered by the advocate, did they get and take conservatorship? How do they maintain it once the person is better, so for example if they get better and then stop taking their medications and relapse? Because this is what I have seen. I've also seen mentally ill people who are unshakably paranoid and view parents and spouses and anyone else who is trying to help them as part of a conspiracy against them. And also, the legal battles to get conservatorship are not necessarily within the means of everyday people, along with the money to pursue treatment after treatment. I know of one person with a mentally ill daughter who is now living in poverty due to the costs of her daughter acting out and paying for attempted treatments, including drug addiction. She started out comfortably middle class. In fact, a serious illness like this is one of the main reasons middle class people go bankrupt.

Edited to add that years ago, Tipper Gore worked quite a bit as an advocate for better mental health treatments. Along with drug addiction, finding better ways to treat mental illness and support people with family members who are mentally ill is one of my key social concerns. Nobody running for office is talking about it or has made it a campaign issue though, in any party that I am aware of. So I'm very interested in hearing about what works and what we could do more of.

Popping back in one more time to share this resource.

http://www.nami.org/

It has information about support groups for family members that I find helpful. It also has a link to research and clinical trials that I review once in a while just to see what's going on, as I'm particularly interested in the research field. Pinkmountain, it also has advocacy resources, too.

Robo, I've not been the primary care giver for my family member. My brother has taken on most of it. He's tremendous and I try to support him as a sounding board. His wife is incredibly understanding.

We met with the doctor early on, and this was so helpful in getting us all on the same page. We've had this same doctor since the illness manifested, and that's been a godsend. He's affiliated with a research university so that helps--he's tenured and firmly in place. Finding and sticking with one doctor is rare though, as it would be for any lifelong illness.

The other friend diagnosed in the 1970s struggled at times but he had children when it all went down. He had violent episodes and so unless he managed his illness, he'd never see them again. I used to work with him and he had photos of his kids with him all the time. He's retired now and lives very simply because the illness drained him financially. Our workplace insurance wouldn't cover his treatments or medication as this was a pre-existing condition. I'm not even sure he inquired because he didn't divulge his illness to our employer. (It's a long story why he told me.) This was in the 1980s and he had learned by then how to hide it. I think he had at least one more hospitalization after that, and, of course, had to find a new job afterward, etc.

Robo, I hope your friend isn't the target of blame by the family as causing or contribution to his condition. Hopefully they're arming themselves with information and understand this.

As a professional in the mental health field, I also recommend NAMI.org support and education groups for family members and caregivers.

And as one who deals with these issues (adults who will not seek or comply with treatment for serious mental illness) I will go so far as to say that your friend should not have children with this person whether he goes into a remission stage or changes his mind and wants them or not, because the illness from which he suffers is very heritable.

As horrible as it is to have a spouse who suffers and will not participate in treatment, it is even more heartbreaking when it is your child. The day they turn 18 you are powerless to help and the fact that they have severe bipolar disorder or schizophrenia is not enough for a parent to get guardianship over an adult who has a normal IQ, at least in our state. I work with parents all the time who are absolutely powerless to help their 18 year old children who are in very dangerous stages of their illness and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Maggie, I only bring this up because Britney Spears was popular when my son's were in high school. lol. About ten years ago her behavior was bizarre. She was constantly in the news so it was hard to miss. Since I've seen my SIL with that angry manic look in her eye's a couple of times, I saw a picture of Britney after she shaved her head and took a baseball bat to a photographer's car, and she had that same look in her eye's. I remember thinking, she's bipolar. She was committed for a few days too. By then she was over 21 and a mother of two little ones.

Come to find out, she is bipolar, and since her diagnosis her father has guardianship over her and her money. She headline's Vegas, makes millions, and her dad is still in control of her funds. So getting guardianship can be done if either the person says okay, or it goes to court.

For anyone reading this thread and isn't familiar with bipolar disorder, over-spending is a huge symptom of mania. Also, when you think of mania, it's not always bad moods, threats, and violence. They're in a happy place and take risks. And talk a 100 mph.

I have a soft spot for Brittney now. It just breaks my heart that most people don't see mental illness as a disease a person was born with. They didn't ask for this disease either. But yet, no one has compassion for them.

I am torn on this. mental illness is a sickness so if you take marriage vows seriously than it falls just as much under the in sickness and in health category as does cancer. My husband was diagnosed with rectal cancer this spring and to be honest at times these past few months it would have been easier to leave him and distance myself from the pain, fear and anger his illness has caused us but I do take my promise I made to him in better times very seriously and would never leave him now.

lets be honest too would those advising this woman to leave think highly of me if I mentioned I have decided to leave my DH now during his illness and treatments?

another thought on all this is the mention that a reason to leave is to pursue having children. I wonder what one would think of a spouse who left their otherwise healthy wife because she was infertile and he has strong desires to father children? Pretty sure many here would think he was a heel.

many people do not take their vows as seriously as I have so what works for me is not necessarily right or wrong for others. I really am not judging just thinking out loud.

I also do want to say that although mental illness is not curable it is often very treatable even after years of not seeming so. My sister, who has borderline and bipolar disorder coupled with alcohol abuse has stabilized as she aged and is living a productive and calmer life now in her forties when we just ten years ago never thought she could. There is possible hope.

The sad part is my friend was already fully ready to support her husband through a very slow debilitating physical disease. So it's not that she hasn't already done a whole lot and wasn't willing to already be the primary caregiver for literally decades. I feel compelled to point out is a little different than being the primary caregiver for a year or less, or being the primary caregiver after you've already had a full and rich life together and raised children. They barely had any life together before he was diagnosed with the physical illness. I also think it's a real shame that in the interest of cost-cutting the government has pushed all this care on to family members Who are expected to endure hours and conditions at home that would seem torturous in a work setting. In fact some families have to practically disavow family members in order to force the government to step up with supportive housing or other care.

I think I can see through this discussion that it would probably best if my friend and her husband did not live together for her own safety, but that doesn't mean she necessarily has to cut off all ties to his life and care.

if I had married my husband under the understanding that he wanted children and he changed his mind and later said after 10 years that he didn't want children, I would leave him. I am infertile and if my husband desperately wanted children to the extent that it impacted our relationship and adoption was not possible, we would divorce. It's just too fundamental of an incompatibility. Yes it would kind of suck for me but I'd rather be happy by myself then sad with a spouse who wanted something I couldn't give. I'm a pretty independent person I guess.

I never intended to judge your friend or those who suggest she should leave I only was stating my thoughts how there really is no one size fits all answer. She is the only person who should, can and will decide what is her best course of action.

I also think your friend's husband did not necessarily change his mind about wanting children he might know that it is not a wise decision for he is not presently capable of raising one and worried about the biological odds of carrying his disorder into the future.

i think as a friend listening rather than advising is always the best solution for helping another get through trying times. Sounds like she is lucky to have your support through this ordeal. I wish her and her husband the best whether together or apart.

Maggie, I wasn't offended at all, and I'm glad you went into more detail on what it's really like when someone has guardianship over another. You're right too, no one can make the person take their meds.

Before I forget Maggie, would you message me? I think your messages are turned off. I wanted to ask you about certain medications.

Roarah, you're a good woman and my heart breaks for you. I would never leave my dh under those circumstances either. Here's the "but." But if he was severely mentally ill to where he threatened me, took a hammer to things and his behavior was irrational and threatening a good part of the time, I couldn't stay & live in fear. Caretakers of the mentally ill usually end up with PTS. It can be that bad. BIL was almost there until the right med was found.

As Maggie said, it's playing roulette. My SIL had short lasting and minor angry mania, which made it easier for my BIL to endure it. Sounds like the husband Robo is talking about can be a danger to the wife, especially since he's hearing voices.

Robo, other than asking your friend if DH is on medication, and has he tried ALL of them to see if anything works (and no antidepressant! lol), the best advice for your friend is to tell her not even to think about kids right now until she's out of the marriage.

Triggers can cause an episode, and if her husband thought for a second she wanted to have a baby with someone else, it could trigger a severe manic episode if he's not stable.

I read this story when it was first published.

I thought of it after reading your post.

I think it will be helpful.

And gives you reason to be hopeful.

You are a very good friend and I wish your friend and her husband well.

Better days, happier times

Schizophrenia Stole My Brother. This Is How I Got Him Back.

Story

Thanks again for all your thoughts and insight! Oakley - I'm fairly sure he is on quite a few things including antidepressants and antipsychotics as well. rainydays - thanks for the link, I read the story and found it interesting, sad and hopeful. I chatted briefly with a psychiatrist friend who works with patients in crisis (emergency), he said he believes it takes an average of 7 years for someone with severe mental illness to get a correct diagnosis and treatment plan.

Robo, I've been trying to tell you that antidepressants can induce mania. Most doctors no longer prescribe AD's for mental illness anymore, but some still do. It's imperative you ask your friend if her husband is taking an antidepressant along with his psychotropic medicine. If he is, that could be the culprit causing his behavior. But he cannot stop taking them cold turkey because of withdrawals. For my sake, ask you friend if he's taking AD's. lol

Oakley - I'm really not sure. I know he's on lithium. Not sure about anything else. I will ask.

Thanks, I feel better. lol. If he is taking AD's, that may be a good thing. KWIM?

He should be seeing a psychiatrist for medication. If they don't know how to prescribe psychotropic protocols then he is in more trouble than they realize.

I think bipolar and schizophrenia have been linked to things outside the brain. I would research that angle.

He's seeing a psychiatrist very actively.

There is a possibility it is linked to his physical condition. But that is incurable.

I really don't have much to add to this discussion, I guess, but Robo, I agree with your conclusion that distancing herself without cutting all ties may be what she is most comfortable with, and I have encounter ex-spouses that do support the ex in emergency situations such as hospitalization. However, since he is prone to delusions,hallucinations, and violence, she really must consider how easily can he access her physically, until such time as he is stabilized (if ever).

I understand how strong the desire to have a child is. Still, that in my mind should be a lower priority than behaving morally, ethically, reasonably and with an eye on the partnership that one has entered into. I personally don't think that I would divorce a partner who is/has been a good life partner in every other way just over that, unless or until the issue (and I hope I wouldn't allow it to) has eroded the relationship seriously. But that is me, I wanted a baby, I had a baby, but I would rather have my life partner if I had to choose.... I think.