One reason it looks greener is because its longer. .....

I get the same thing and I hand rake my yard 2x a season.....

Can you take a picture of it, so we can see?

I will take pictures with a path cut and a path un-cut this week when I mow the lawn.

ocd what does the hand raking remove?

do you think it's dead grass?

KGB can get thatchy if you water it too frequently and if you fertilize it continually. Watering should be held to once a week in the hottest heat of summer. Fertilizer is not the problem if you do it once in late spring and twice in the fall.

My KBG does the same thing. Nice and green and lush when longer because the new growth is nice and green. Take that off and expose the dead parts that were still there but hidden by the new top growth. People who water every day do not seem to have this problem, but we know that is not good for the lawn. Next year I am going to water a little more frequently than I think I need and see what happens. I'm still learning about my lawn water needs after 3 years.

Don't blame yourself, your grass is still changing it's water needs at year 3--Whatever applied last year may or may not work again this year with all the rooting & shedding. KBG is not like fescue or rye, it's a spreading grass with a lot of rhizomes & stolons, which is why you guys sound like bermuda owners right now! Losing sleep about the manipulation of the proper ratio of brown to green is just part of the fun.

danielj

I am on year 5 and my lawn is very thick and weed free.

There are parts of the year I have to mow twice a week.

But it lacks that deep rich green color, along with the dead thatchy look after mowing.

Like you I tried to follow the proper watering techniques and my neighbors who water daily for 20 minutes a zone, water at night etc.

And their lawns look nicer than mine.

????

@ gle2011 But it lacks that deep rich green color, along with the dead thatchy look after mowing.

Do you know what kind of KBG you have? Genetic color can vary wildly from one cultivar to another. A PGR regimen will darken the grass considerably. Especially in conjunction with nitrogen and iron.

j4c11,

I don't know what kind of KBG I have.

Something I should have mentioned when I posted the question; the lawn in the shade of the house and fences has a much greener and has less of the dead thatchy look after cutting.

What is PGR?

Thanks

@gle2011: You are describing my lawn to a "t." I wonder if it also has to do with a certain amount of "manageable" die off due to fungus. I'm thinking the other nice green lawns are using fungicides. I actually had a fungal outbreak (I think) which I might post on later. Anyway, if you look at your leaf blades closely you might see a certain percentage of them with yellow/brown sections that indicate fungus.

On the other hand you'd think the fungus would be in the shaded areas rather than the sunny ones, but my outbreak of fungus only happened in the sunny spots. The shadier areas look great.

Have you had a soil analysis by Logan Labs? This will help you figure out if you have an iron deficiency or any other issues you might not know about. If you are at the point of having a near perfect lawn then you'll need more information to get it where you want it, if it is at all possible. If you haven't done it yet, get the sample analysis and post the results in this forum.

dabielj,

A couple of my neighbors with the nicer looking lawns do not use fungicides even when using poor watering techniques.

I moved into a 38 home development of all new homes 5 years ago. 2 years ago in August I was using a very highly regarded lawn service that the same neighbors I am describing use and was told I had red thread and once they applied the fall fertilizer application the nitrogen would cure the red thread. The lawn continued to do poorly.

I switched back to the service guy I had at my previous home which had a beautiful lawn; with no irrigation, but a lot more shade. He has not been able to improve the lawn's appearance in 2 years.

He claims the lawn is so thick and based on a 2015 Logan Labs soil test results (sandy soil, low ph, below average OEM) the lawn needs more fertilizer, lime and water.

I am going to give it try myself next year with a monthly application of Milorganite, proper watering technique and proper amounts of lime.

My fingers are crossed.

KBG dying off in sunny spots during hot weather is a pretty well known phenomena, some kind of root fungus if I remember correctly--Google summer patch on KBG & it'll take you to 100 articles

The majority of my lawn is in full sun, in particular the back yard.

Are there better choices of grass I could mix in to the KBG to help get a healthier lawn ?

"But it lacks that deep rich green color, along with the dead thatchy look after mowing."

You *could* try spraying some liquid iron on it (Gordon's make a liquid Fe product which I use a few times a year, and it darkens it during periods of heat/summer stress)

Personally, I'd get a soil test performed now so you can make plans to adjust x/y/z. It sounds like your Fe levels are a tad low.

@gle: One of the best ways of increasing your OM% is to mulch mow all the leaves you can get. If you have neighbors with leaves blow them into your yard. If you can find bagged leaves from lawns that do not have tons of weeds, steal those, too. As long as at least the tips of the blades can see sunlight through teh mulched leaves, you won't kill the grass. I've done this the last couple of years and my OM% has come up nicely (in addition to milorganite, etc.).

My sunniest area is the front lawn but I don't think just sun and summer heat alone is enough to do away with the KBG. I think just watering a little more frequently might help.

@reel: thanks. I haven't researched fungus problems much so I'll have to look into that.

I'm scratching my head trying to tell the difference between summer patch and brown patch, then I find one site that says they are the same thing. It's called brown patch for fescue and rye and summer patch for KBG. Is this true?

Good questions. People in Houston say their St. Augustine gets "brown patch" too but I seriously doubt they're all caused by the same fungus. I think people just use brown patch as a catch-all term, but the summer patch thing is a known species. Either way, it sounds like summer patch control is a matter of perfect timing & a dash of good luck.

Summer patch is also specifically a root fungus, which seems an important distinction. Please keep in mind I'm no fungus expert (Bermuda doesn't have that problem) but I see these articles on turfnet & other periodical sports turf sites every season about the same time we get big rushes of posts on the forum & I don't believe much in coincidence

@reeljake

You are correct. Brown patch is Rhizoctonia solani. Summer patch is Magnaporthe poae.

I have added pictures I took on Oct 21, 2016,

One thing that might be worth noting is to get the single blade sample for the picture below it was very difficult to dig a sample plug with a small garden hand shovel (bulb planter); the ground was very hard,

The backyard is in full sun.

Side yard Shady Area

Like I said above, your lawn's issue in full sun vs side of the house is very similar to what I've experienced. Is it fungal or lack of water? In your close up it is clear you have some fungal issues but is it enough to cause the browning you are experiencing? I'm thinking the issue is more water related than fungal. Consider the evidence: 1) Your neighbors water more than you do and they don't have the browning problem. Same with my neighbors. 2) Shady areas don't have the browning problem on your yard or mine even during the hottest weather. More shade means more soil moisture. 3) In my yard the grass is browner closer to two of my trees. Trees reduce moisture in the soil. 4) My front yard slopes downward gently and I have irrigation. The yard is sunny but the part of the lawn closer to the street is lush and not brown. This could be due to more water in that area from runoff toward the street. 5) In cooler weather the browning problem goes away - less heat means more moisture in the soil. 6) In my case in know for a fact that I have been under watering during the hottest months. One of my zones was only programmed to drop 1/2" of water by mistake.

So these are all arguments that suggest more frequent water is worth a try.

On the other hand, I'm no fungus expert. I had my first real outbreak of summer patch this year and it damaged some of my best lawn. Only now is it starting to fill back in. Can heat cause a low level of constant die-off due to fungus that results in extra brown blades, or does fungus just "go all summer patch" on you? I don't know. Maybe too little water, contrary to popular thought, leads to more fungus in excess heat. If more water fixes the problem then I guess it doesn't matter if it is fungus killing the grass or just dehydration.

I guess that's a long way of saying that I am going to water more next year and see what happens. I'm going to put down a minimum of 1" per week whether it needs it or not, rather than looking for stressed blades before watering.

I'd be interested in seeing updates on your situation. We could possibly help each other out in the future.

Sounds good danielj.

I'll look for your post(s).

A couple of things in my yard I found interesting:

1.) How difficult it was to dig a sample plug to obtain the single blade I showed in one of the pictures. Noting just below the surface the root system was fine fuzzy well intertwined roots.

I am not sure if this is what the root system is suppose to look like.

2. We have been under a 6 week drought related water ban; but the temperatures have cooled and we had received some rain and the lawn has seemed to bounce back quite a bit.

This past Friday night we had a serious thunderstorm and received approximately 4.25" of rain overnight. It will be interesting to see how the lawn does with all of the rain.

I am going try applying the 3oz of baby shampoo per 1K sq.ft to try and loosen the soil.

Does anyone know how many applications and time interval between applications of the shampoo?

Any ideas on how to get rid of all of the brown dead looking grass?

Or should I just leave it?

I would apply shampoo once a week for 3 or 4 weeks. The dead grass will take care of itself. Don't forget to mulch mow all of your fall leaves.

I switched back to the service guy I had at my previous home which
had a beautiful lawn; with no irrigation, but a lot more shade. He has
not been able to improve the lawn's appearance in 2 years.

He claims the lawn is so thick and based on a 2015 Logan Labs soil
test results (sandy soil, low ph, below average OEM) the lawn needs
more fertilizer, lime and water.

Any idea what (what: lime, P, Fe, Mg, etc, when and the quantity) has been applied since your soil test? OEM,? Did you mean to type OM or is that something else?

If you tested last November, it's time to test again as it is important to stay consistent for comparison. It may still be possible to get some amendments down yet this year

I'm assuming you posted the test. Can you link to it? If you received a read and recommendations, if everything was as low as you indicate, some of your problem could be related to the items identified in that read and recommendations. Especially so if they haven't been addressed.

Besides the 4 plus inches of rain we received on the 21st, we have received approximately an additional 1 inch over the past week-end. Both of the storms and cooler temperatures have helped the overall appearance of my lawn. I mowed the lawn to 3" this past Wednesday afternoon. I just happen to scuff up a couple of dead looking spots with my foot and the lawn just rolled up. It looks like grub damage. That night I check my receipts from my lawn service guy and found he didn't apply grub control until mid July.

Isn't that a bit late in the zone 5 season?

I am just wondering if part of my lawns appearance problem is due to grubs???

Dead roots in patches of dead grass could likely be from summer patch fungus. I had such an outbreak as well, though to be honest I didn't check for grubs. Given the summer heat I'm sure it was more fungal in my case.

Thanks for the information. I know nothing about fungus related problems.

I didn't see any grubs; but there where no roots visible below the thatch line.

We've been talking about summer patch & other possible fungus on this lawn since the beginning of October... Why the sudden interest in grubs?

Because of the couple of the patches that just rolled up on me Wednesday when I was mowing. Barely scuffed them with my foot, then when I gave them a light tug the 4" x 4" sections just lifted right up. The roots were gone.

Hey anything is possible. I just found sod web worms this morning for the first time in a decade. Crazy year!

hopefully we'll get it right...sooner than later I hope..

Good Luck!

Grubs don't stay where they have already eaten the roots, they move on. You'll need to dig up an area of still green grass right adjacent to a dead area to see if it's grubs. As danielj mentioned, it could be a disease. Some diseases attack the crown or roots and could result in similar appearance as grub damage.

I am in zone 5, are the grubs still there?

How deep would I need to dig?

Zone 5? Doubtful. Read here.

I have attached a picture I took today at 5pm (Nov 2, 2016).

Do you think it looks better than the one posted a couple of weeks ago;

As mentioned earlier since Oct 21st we have received approximately 51/2" of rain and the day time temps are in the 50's, night time mid 30's.

Actually we have had a couple of frosty nights; Tuesday morning I woke up to 28F, with a good frost on the grass surface.

So glad I found this thread, I have this exact issue with my zone 5 lawn. I just posted "Wisconsin lawn soil test" pictures included. I usually mow at 4 all year and then in fall when I slowly start lowering the height to 3.75 then 3.5 and when I hit 3, there is the straw field, strange. We installed our lawn 4 years ago and every fall this happens

I am starting to mulch in leaves today with hopes of improving the soil over the next few years, This along with a monthly application of Milorganite starting next spring.

But as far as watering techniques are concerned; help is needed.

I am aware of the 1" of water per week all in one watering session rule of thumb.

But I found a site which seems to contradict some of the practices discussed.

I posted it below.

Your thoughts?

www.http://bluegrasses.com

Specific subject matters are listed on the right hand side of the page under "Bluegrass Information."

Thanks

@gle2011: I'm sure these people know more about KBG than I ever will, but I find some of their information odd. For example, they spend a whole paragraph describing a detailed mowing schedule for the year, and then follow that up with a one line "preferred" mowing schedule telling you to just mow it at a higher length and leave it there all season. Odd. Also, the watering section is vague, so I'm not sure why you think it is at odds with the 1" recommendation, other than saying the ground should be moist.

They also seem to have a scorched earth policy toward insects, but maybe that's just my interpretation.

@gle2011: I'm sure these people know more about KBG than I ever will, but I find some of their information odd. For example, they spend a whole paragraph describing a detailed mowing schedule for the year, and then follow that up with a one line "preferred" mowing schedule telling you to just mow it at a higher length and leave it there all season. Odd. Also, the watering section is vague, so I'm not sure why you think it is at odds with the 1" recommendation, other than saying the ground should be moist.

They also seem to have a scorched earth policy toward insects, but maybe that's just my interpretation.

@simplescapes: I avoid this problem by leaving my grass at 4" all year round. I haven't had any snow mold problems as yet, though I did have a fungal outbreak in August. I leave it high, partly, because this allows me to mulch the maximum amount of leaves (mine and my neighbor's) without burying the grass too much.

@ danielj Also, the watering section is vague, so I'm not sure why you think it is at odds with the 1" recommendation, other than saying the ground should be moist.

I thought I read on the home page; KBG has a shallow root system.

And I thought the purpose of the deep, infrequent water method was to be sure the surface layer dried out before the next watering.

@simplescapes I brought in some leaves from my son's yard yesterday.

put down a nice layer of them in my backyard and mulched away.

I thought I had put down to many but after 3 passes it looks like I hardly put any leaves down.

Next week the front yard.

Hopefully I'll figure out the watering technique soon.

The more I read; I am finding the suggested practices are a great rule of thumb; but everyone's situations are different and ever changing,

One example: I find in my neighborhood some of my neighbors seem to break every watering rule known.

They water 20 minutes per zone everyday; they water in the evening etc...

And I have to admit their lawns look better then mine.

Go figure ????

@gle2011: I think shallow is relative. Some grasses have roots 2 and 3 ft deep. If you mow your KBG at 4" the roots will be about 4". If you mow it at 2" your roots will be about 2". I think the idea is to maximize the root depth by mowing high and encouraging the roots to reach down where the water is, not curl up and form a thatch mat while looking for shallow water. I think your site is vague about how dry the surface might become before needing more water.

A lot of us have looked around and see our neighbors watering every day, doing everything wrong, yet having none of that brown straw mixed in with the green blades. If the search feature of this forum weren't so pathetic, I might be able to find my post on this subject. If I recall correctly, morpheus said that you might have to give up a little green in the summer heat but you gain resistance to many other problems. Personally, I have yet to see one of these neighbors' lawns crash and burn due to poor watering. On the other hand, I lost a few patches to fungus while doing everything "right"! I'm going to water an inch once a week whether it needs it or not next season to observe any difference.

@danielj

I'm with you.

I'll re-calibrate with tuna cans to ensure I am getting the full 1" when I water.

Please post your results.

Thanks

Thanks for the leaf tips, our backyard is a complete woodline so I mulch those up but now I will rake them out into yard, wait till my neighbors sees this everyday he removes his and burns them, will make me smile to see the look in his face