Does your Maman Cochet ball?

7 years ago

last modified: 7 years ago

Got a young plant in a pot. This fall is the first time it is producing decently sized and formed, very double blooms but most of them ball and refuse to open properly and get that ugly greyish colour on the outside petals WITHOUT any rain and WITHOUT particularly high humidity.. I've never seen a thing like this.. My SdlM has no problem under this weather. I wonder if anybody has had the same experience. Superficially it looks like botrytis but it can't be. In the rare cases I've seen botrytis on a rose it feels slimy to the touch, this one doesn't.

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jacqueline9CA

6 years ago

bart - to answer your question about my Niles Cochet (which I believe is a color sport of MC), what I meant by "a little balling in the Spring" (sorry I was not more clear) was that, if our Spring (which here is Feb - May) is damp or drizzly for several days, or rainy, NC does ball. However, mostly our Springs are very clear and dry after March, so she does not ball then. So, it all depends on the weather. When she does ball, I usually just cut off the offending blooms, and then when the weather clears up she puts out more flowers. She repeats a lot during our hot dry summers, and then there is no problem with balling. The Fall flush is also usually fine.

In case the info is of any use, my plant of NC is a rooted cutting off a bush growing a block away from my house which is in the neglected old garden of a cottage which is over 100 years old, and was owned by the same family for 90+ years. The old garden is full of old roses - I noticed banksia lutea, Belle Portugaise, some sort of china, and of course Cecile Brunner, in addition to the very large mature bush of NC. About 15 years ago the very elderly man of the original family, who still owned the cottage, knocked on my front door wanting to know if my FIL still lived there - he used to play with him when they were children around 1920!

Jackie

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Comments (16)

stillanntn6b
7 years ago
She did. But I used about eight sprays from her in one of my niece's wedding bouquets by finger pruning off the outer layers of petals until I got to the fresh. I was so pleasantly surprised to find good looking petals under the gloom, but they were there and as beautiful as you could ask for.
nikthegreek
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Thanks. I knew she was a baller when I got her but balling is not much of a problem in my climate aside of the odd very wet spring. If she regularly balls under such fine autumn weather, I don't want to imagine what she would do under damp weather. If she does not behave she's gone since she will be worthless imo as non balling mid summer blooms looked insignificant.

PS. The pot is on concrete paving not far from a stone wall. What I suspect is happening is a great increase in local air humidity during these cooler nights after all this sun washed hardscape has become quite warm during the day. I'm moving the pot to an airier spot on dirt, similar to where I was planning to plant her. If she does not behave there she's out, I'm not prepared to provide her with her personal dehumidifier.. I can't imagine her being any good in some foggy place like the Californian coast..
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laurali; My neighbors cl. "Maman Cochet" does the same thing your plant does, -produces outward facing blooms that turn brown. However this only occurs in summer, when higher heat causes smaller blooms, which is not unusual. Those smaller rose blossoms are lighter in weight and lack enough weight to cause the pedicle to nod downwards from gravity. This is why, I believe, the smaller roses face outwards. The browning is also, I think, probably caused by hot temperatures and the fact her cl. Maman Cochet is in full sun in a southern exposure. I noticed her roses turn brown first on the edges of the petals, which leads me to think these smaller roses are dehydrating more quickly. Her garden is only 3 blocks away from mine, where my white "Maman Cochet" , which is growing in half a days shade, watered well, produces large blooms that nod perfectly and the petals drop off cleanly with no browning. Luxrosa
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Hi Tricornose I am including a link to a page that has two pics of WMC. When I loaded these to the net I wasn't sure of the name but I have been assured by the people I got the cutting from that it is WMC. Also most people on the forum felt that it was WMC. The pics are the two to the left in the bottom row. BTW I know that Octavius Weld is not. I think it may be a Madame Lombard? My WMC are fuller than your pics. I think the pink edge can vary greatly according to the climate so I wouldn't rely too heavily on that. I can't think of any other options at the moment but I'm sure you'll get some helpful replies. I would imagine that WMC would be very difficult to keep as a standard, it is a monstrous bush. Sally Here is a link that might be useful: Wh. Mamon Cochet
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Let me explain. My climate is warm to cool from fall to spring when it usually is quite humid (65 to 95% relative humidity depending on weather and time of day). It is warm to hot in the summer (middle of June to end of September) when air humidity is usually low. MC balls all the time from fall to spring while it doesn't in the summer. The problem is it doesn't bloom much during the summer and what blooms I get are small and insignificant. Best blooms are during the cooler seasons but then they mostly ball... In the rare instances when we get some cool and dry weather then its blooms are very nice. But it's rare in my climate. No need for rain, of which we get very little, to ruin MC's blooms. Air humidity and night dew is enough. I guess that in a cool winter desert climate things will be different. My only rose which balls more than MC is Tipsy. But Tipsy blooms nicely during the warmer drier season..
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Vicissitudezz
7 years ago
Mine doesn't ball, and our conditions are generally humid. Mine is own-root, if that matters.

Virginia
nikthegreek
Original Author
7 years ago
Well, when I saw other roses doing the same, Abraham Darby amongst them, I knew something unusual was going on. So I went out at 5 o' clock in the morning and there it was. The dew. Not the mild one, the wet one. In fact there was so much of it, it looked like it had just rained heavily. Not a few drops, lots and lots of water on all the plants. You couldn't walk underneath the citrus trees without getting wet. This is quite strange weather for us over here caused by the combination of still air, sea humidity and very warm temps causing very high dew temps during the night. So, Maman Cochet cannot stand the rain. A thing which I knew already.
jacqueline9CA
7 years ago
I do not have MC, but my Niles Cochet balls in the Spring if it is damp or wet. So far, it has been OK during our hot, dry summers. Luckily, it blooms so much that I do not mind a little balling in the Spring.

Jackie
User
6 years ago
Just found this thread...I wonder if any of you can comment further on Maman, in answer to my own thread about this rose. What, for example,does Jackie mean by saying "a little balling in spring?" does that mean the whole flush is spoiled, or are just a few flowers (I realize in any case that she wasn't even talking about MC). Nik, how has your Maman been behaving? Do you get a decent flush in, say, May/June?
nikthegreek
Original Author
6 years ago
No
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
Oh boy, I have her in the wood fence Tea Garden # 2. I guess I'll find out here.
Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
6 years ago
Sorry,Nik you are going through this. Is there an alternative like covering the bush night time and removing in morning.i know this is tons of work but......

I can't get this rose. It rains here all the time. I just learned, we get 50 inches of rain per year and the most from any other states. I got to remember.

Jin
User
6 years ago
Virginia,if you are around on the forum these days, I hope you'll weigh in.Nik, you are located fairly near to the sea, aren't you?
nikthegreek
Original Author
6 years ago
Yes. Some 300m away as the crow flies.
nikthegreek
Original Author
6 years ago
Where Nik resides

https://www.google.gr/maps/place/Porto+Rafti/@37.899922,24.0275675,2209m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x14a18efaddaea2f1:0x6628ccc3f65b7d67!8m2!3d37.884954!4d24.013446?hl=en
titian1 10b Sydney
6 years ago
FWIW, I'm in a way more humid climate than Nik, and had Maman Cochet briefly, due to all blooms balling. I now have WR Smith (one of whose parents is MC). It's an ungainly 'shrub' (2 or 3 lanky canes, one of which has shot up to 10'), but mostly the blooms are beautiful. There is some balling at times, and brown outer petals, but it can look like this

Trish's Garden · More Info

Trish
User
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Climate humidity can be a tricky question,it seems to me. One thinks of "Greece",and an image of clear blue skies, dry, hot sun pop instantly into mind,yet near the sea, the air is undeniably VERY humid in the evenings. I'm far from the sea, and have by now an innate fear of hot/dry conditions so much so that I don't fear even soggy winter weather that exasperates my already bad hip. Yet mugginess is far from unknown in these parts. I hope to hear from more people about Maman; I've wanted this rose for quite a while,so it might be worth a try...

Trish, Sydney is on the coast, right?
titian1 10b Sydney
6 years ago
Yes, Bart, Sydney is on the coast, though it's so sprawling some of it is quite a way away. However, I'm like Nik - about 300 metres away as the crow flies, and in direct sight of it, so the humidity is high, and there are a lot of salt-laden breezes.

Does your Maman Cochet ball?

jacqueline9CA

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