Leg space & Table Depth:

• You need at least 18" leg space under the table for each side...so, 36", minimum depth - I wouldn't go much deeper than 42", though (most DR tables are 42", I think).
• For the end seats, 18" would be ideal, but you can probably get away with 12" to 15".

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Linear Space & Table Length:

You need 24" to 30" linear space per seat.

So the table's length:

6 seats - 2 on each long side and 1 on each end:

• Minimum (and might be tight): (24" x 2) + 12" + 12" = 72" This will never fit 8!
• Ideal: (30" x 2) + 18" + 18" = 96" For 8, it would be tight but doable - see below.

8 seats - 3 on each long side and 1 on each end:

• Minimum (and might be tight): (24" x 3) + 12" + 12" = 96"
• Ideal: (30" x 3) + 18" + 18" = 126"
  

An 84" table is too short for 8 people, but it would be fine for 6 people - b/w the minimum/tight squeeze and ideal for 6. It would provide 27" per person on a side and 15" of leg space for the end seats.

A 72" table will sit 6 people, but it will be tight. It will not fit 8 people.

"...It has to seat 6 very comfortably..." - for that, I recommend 96" - which is 8'!

To be honest, a banquette this size would be unwieldy, IMHO. It would be too difficult for the inside people to get in/out. Plus, I don't think you can fit a big enough table in the available space.

It looks like you have a Dining Room (b/c there's a Butler's Pantry) - so why do you need to squeeze so many people into the small Kitchen space - just use the Dining Room!

In fact, do you really need three types of seating so close together - Dining Room, Banquette, Island?

True--bigger groups can easily go into DR. Mostly it's when friends or family are over for informal breakfast/brunch and everyone wants to be in the kitchen. Then it is 6...or 7....or 8 . Island is meant for kitchen functionality mostly but also parties etc

I'd still rather sit in the DR. We eliminated the Kitchen table b/c there just wasn't enough room for comfortable seating and now everyone sits either at the peninsula or in the DR...but we don't have to go through another room to get to our DR like you do - it's directly off the Kitchen. So, if that's what you want and it fits in your space, then that's your choice - it's your Kitchen! :-)

So, a couple of other questions...

Have you finalized this layout? I'm asking b/c I see a couple of issues.

Barrier island...The island, for example, is what's known as a "barrier island". It's a barrier b/w the refrigerator and the two primary work zones that need access to it - the Prep Zone (b/w the sink and range) and the Cooking Zone (around the range).

To fix it, I'd move the refrigerator to the other side of the door to the Butler's Pantry.

Island seating...Your island does not look deep enough for seating - it should be 41.5" deep (40.5" if you do not have a decorative door or end panel on the backs of the island cabinets). The minimum recommended overhang for counter-height seating is 15" of clear leg/knee space. (I hope that's counter-height as counter-height is much more useful and looks better than bar-height.)

So, the island's depth would be:

1.5" counter overhang on the front + 24" deep cabinets + 1" decorative door/end panel + 15" clear leg/knee overhang = 41.5"

If you want a row of cabinets under and facing the overhang, then add in the depth of those cabinets. (The 1" for a decorative door now becomes 1" for an actual door.) BTW, if you do, then I recommend pullouts facing out on the ends b/c that's more accessible/useful storage than having to reach under a seating overhang. The middle section would still be cabinets facing out - so whatever the length is minus 48" would be cabinet storage (24" deep pullouts facing out on each end = 48".)

Some will argue that less is OK, but unless everyone in your family (and all your friends) is quite short, please do not skimp on the overhang! People usually skimp b/c they think it will help with aisle space - but it doesn't - people take up just as much space as they would with the minimum overhang - they just are uncomfortable while sitting there! They have to lean forward to reach the counter, or they have to twist to sit there or they have straddle the cabinets in an attempt to squeeze themselves into a smaller space to reach the counter - all positions that are not comfortable for more than a few short minutes. This comes, usually, from trying to cram an island into a Kitchen that cannot accommodate one. I think your Kitchen is fine - so you don't need to skimp. (I don't have measurements, so I cannot be certain, though.)

If you have tall people in your family, then having an 18" overhang is better - I wish that's what we did! (We have 15" and it's too shallow for my DH and DS - they're 6'5" and 6'7"; it's fine for the rest of us who are under 6'!)

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Aisles...how wide are your aisles? Without measurements, I cannot tell for certain. Just as reference, the following are the recommended guidelines:

• Work aisle with only one person ever working in it...42"
• Work aisle with more than one person working in it...48"
• Between two sets of seats (e.g., b/w island and table)...54"

Buehl--thank you. Your comments are very helpful.

Fridge--it currently resides in the butler's pantry where you see "food pantry". I'm actually more than fine with that location (the spot is 37.5" wide) and it has worked very well for us to date. The reason we were thinking of moving it is that it becomes a longer hike now that the kitchen is 6 feet wider and the eating area moved further away. We have been observing our fridge use habits (oh for the last decade...) and realized that most trips are actually between fridge and table for drinks, snacks, condiments, what have you, and that by contrast both my husband and I tend to be the sort of cooks who root around in the fridge and drag out whatever looks like it might contribute to dinner and then don't tend to go back to the fridge. And when DH needs something while cooking he invariably asks me to fetch it--thinks I'm his sous chef....:-) . So handing it across the island would work.

Also fridge would be easy shot out French doors for al fresco dining. But I hear you. Given those trade offs, would you opt for current location or new location?

I know you are actually suggesting moving it to the left run of the U shaped kitchen but we have ruled that out because:

1) I do not like that look

2) it creates a weird counter-cave that I find makes the counter much less useful

3) the island is still essentially blocking the stove to fridge path so it doesn't do much to solve the issue and things get crowded if one person is at the sink (even with 48" clearance).

Island--currently 6' x 4'. Glad you have tall people. DH is almost 6'6" and we are planning on doing an 18" overhang. The plans shown are approximate since I am refining them now. We have over 7 feet between island and banquette table so plenty of room to make the island wide enough. There will only be cabinets on the sink side. The only thing that could conceivably be on the other side *might* be a cast iron radiator if there is no other place for it but still working that out. So is 18" plenty assuming no radiator?

Clearances--we have room for 42" and 48". Where do you think we want the wider clearance? I was thinking that the passage from banquette to butler's pantry should be wider and between stove and island only 42" to discourage people being behind the cook but would love your thoughts. Also ?? 48" between sink run and island? and of course we can pick any number between 42 and 48.

This is so helpful. Thank you for taking the time to comment.

If this is a new build, I would reexamine several of the room relationships here. If this is a remodel, with existing constraints, I would still rethink the banquette. And attempt to connect the kitchen and dining area better for more everyday use from the dining area.

The banquette is not comfortable for anyone except those on the ends. It's best utilized as a single bench type seat rather than a U. Narrow your goals for that area to a casual seating area, or single bench or L shaped seat. But don't expect to get more than 4 there with any degree of comfort.

Agree with your thoughts. On a daily basis we only have 3-4 people but want to be able to seat more when friends are over

I wonder if the banquette seating would be better having just the bench against the porch rather than the U? Sliding around the U would be awkward. When we go out as a group to restaurants that have those corner booths than can seat 6 or even 8 people we always ask for tables instead. People want to get up to use the restroom or stretch their legs. Kids end up crawling under the table to escape and fighting over who has to sit in the middle. I realize banquettes are popular here and are a practical way of using space but there can be too much of a good thing!

If you have a dining room on the other side of the butler's pantry it seems like that would be the place to seat more than 6 or 8 people.

"Wow, all the middle seats are open on the airplane, quick let's grab them before they are gone." -- says no one.

And yes French Doors are ridiculously expensive. I would not recommend cutting corners though because you want something that's going to be sturdy and reliable for decades.

Stan Z

One of the complications is that when one has an L shaped bench there is an unequal amount of space at each end of the table--one end has a banquette bench which takes up very little room and the other end either requires a LOT of space (room for chairs and room to pass) OR one cannot use it at all.

This poses a new issue: the placement of the light fixture over the table. The light fixture needs to be centered on the table but if the table is not centered in the space it looks awful.

Plus, I have always always wanted a window seat.

I am not much bothered about 6 or 7 people being there daily and needing to feel comfortable. I care more that 4 people are happy and that it is symmetrical and that I end up with a window seat.

French doors are rediculous. We just bought wood ones with dual pain windows (the kind that have a post that you slide by hand to lock). Works great for us since 98% of the time we only open one door and they were pretty inexpensive (comparatively).